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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CannonFodder on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:01 pm

Caoimhe wrote:However it ends it can't be worse than the massive copout climax that vanilla FoE was: One of those stereotypical "gather everyone we ever met that isn't evil, watch them humorously interact for a few before protagonist instantly becomes accelerated to an uncharacteristic Patton-like leader" scenes followed by a rather uninteresting multi-scene battle from different viewpoints that doesn't mesh with the rest of the narration and an... average sorta one on one ending that left many questions (though I liked the circular ending).

I thought the epilogue was pretty lame as well and reduced the impact of the ending that I already didn't care for much and the attempt to reinsert Homage (a travesty already that Pip didn't really get to see her before the end) was pandering at best, almost like something you'd tell an upset child that learned his/her fav character died off screen for comfort.
Oh god, the ending for it annoyed the living fuck out of me(pardon my language).

For when project horizons eventually ends I think it will be a really good ending regardless of whether or not it's a happy ending or sad ending. The reason being is that all the major story lines have wrapped up or are wrapping up and aren't wrapping up at the same time. There's only three major story lines that have yet to end. Glory and the enclave, lacunae and project horizons. One could argue the raider disease is a major story line, but once lighthooves gets caught or whatever then that story line ends. The enclave would not allow a mutated disease specifically made to kill pegasus also go unnoticed. It's a massive bombshell politically.

I think the one thing I would like to see is a epilogue of years into the future to give closure on how their lives turn out.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:53 pm

The endings I would like for each character:

Lacunae dies. All of her is dispersed and Psalm finally makes it to heaven, embraces her goddess, and finally finds peace.

Rampage's souls all get released and she is reborn, one final time, in the body of a foal... finally complete.

P-21 lives. He becomes a patron of Chapel, taking care of the other fillies and colts where he can, and raising Rampage alongside Scotch as his daughter.

Glory becomes an emissary of the Enclave, succeeding in bringing both her mother and father's dreams to fruition... true cooperation between the Enclave, Thunderhead and the surface world, likely in cooperation with the Keeper family in uniting the wasteland in commerce and peace.

Blackjack either dies a hero or, somehow, is rendered incapable of fighting. Maybe her parts break down and she is relegated to a wheelchair-like thing. Maybe she is made a cyberspace entity like Echo. Maybe she is reborn, somehow, as a mare with no more scars or cybernetic parts... but crippled or something. I don't know.
Somehow, she can't fight anyone anymore, ever. Period.
So she becomes like the six heroes of old, forming her own organization.

And she calls it security. It is based in whatever end of equestria Glory calls her home base, even if she's not always there, being an emissary.
From it, like Littlepip, Blackjack tells her story to anyone that will listen. She trains ponies to defend themselves and to help others. She organizes this with Stronghooves and the other "good" steel rangers, including Applejack's rangers, when she can.
It takes some time, but through her works, effort and conviction, the other groups form up under her. Society starts paying its workers in order to be able to do business in the towns under the protection of security. The Collegiate, with the resources of security, start bringing back the best of the projects to aid those hurt in the wasteland with miraculous cures and the like (including a cure for raider disease). The Ravagers eventually cave and decide to join this growing union, as well, them standing together against any adversary...
...basically, the six heroes of so long ago, five at the passing of Dawn, finally meet and make peace, their each individual ways of saving the wasteland combining and providing structure not just to Hoofington, but the rest of equestria, too.
Thus the chaos that was left in the wake of the regeneration of the world and the return of the sun is given structure and the world is finally on a real path to being saved.

All of this could happen with or without Security still being alive, but I think it is the endgame. So many individual groups exist trying to bring peace and order to the wasteland, but fighting among themselves. Once they stop that, they'll finally succeed.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:58 pm

Since it's now February, any update on the book situation? I've still got the money sitting in my PayPal (assuming that PayPal hasn't stolen it) and Somber's shipping address sitting in my inbox.
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What you don't know isn't canon... yet.

Post by BrentOGara on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:13 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Incorporating, say, Shining Armor would require rethinking Twilight, her mother, the fate of Canterlot, et cetera
Aye; this is one of the parts of PH that I try very hard to ignore.

Personally, I may be in denial: By my recollection, Shining Armor has not himself appeared or been mentioned, at the very least not explicitly as Twilight's brother, so Cadence's child could have been fathered by someone else, or he might have no special connection to her (and perhaps a weaker shield), and that's what I choose to believe for now. I believe that she might have shown up in a memory as a winged unicorn, but I figure there's some explanation that has not, or has not yet, been made why she is not an alicorn, or is older than Luna.

One of the nicest things about any post-apoc setting is the vast amount of information that has simply been lost. It's not at all unusual for the post-apoc civilization to have huge holes in it's knowledge of even the most simple or most important things about the previous civilization. Unless someone somewhere specifically said that Twilight was an only child, unless her mother, in the one scene we have of her, specifically said that she had only one child, or that Twilight had no brother, then it's simply not yet known. And even if they did say it, then they were mistaken, or lying.

And "not yet known" is the basis of fan-fiction... you don't write a fanfic as a perfect record of what happened in the show, it's not a kind of novelization. A fanfic is taking the basic premise of the show and then writing in all the stuff that is not yet known... and that covers a ton of stuff... including Shining Armor, and possibly Cadance as well. Although the "first new Alicorn since Luna" thing Twi said to Trixie would then be shown up as a lie on Twi's part... probably to manipulate Trixie into accepting, which is a perfectly good reason for Twi to have lied to an old enemy

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by skibadaa on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:18 pm

CannonFodder wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:However it ends it can't be worse than the massive copout climax that vanilla FoE was

Oh god, the ending for it annoyed the living fuck out of me(pardon my language).

Really? The only thing I didn't like about the ending of FO:E was just that, that it had an end. And I didn't want it to Sweetie Belle

Of course that is where Horizons comes in.....
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:26 pm

The main thing about the ending to FoE I don't like is just how different and tacked on it is. Littlepip learned nothing about becoming a military strategist or leading guerrillas. Hell, for the most part she and the others barely got by (considerably due to the help of Steelhooves for some). Now she's leading all these different characters who, for the most part, only really existed to serve their own goals and way of life... now on a mission of selfless sacrifice for the good of all. That was LP's goal and no one else really showed any desire to die for the abstract greater good like herself (and "fighting for the Stable Dweller" is an even sappier motivation, except in the case of Homage, Clams and Velmedy). The progressive finale was more-so just a plot device to get everyone together for the reader's sake requiring a startling shift in tone and narration that isolates the reader from what should be the defining moment of the protagonist's life.

In fact, the bulk of the battle didn't even need to be told since the focus should have been 100% on LP's struggle to get to the SPP. If I had to rewrite it using the proceeding scenes as they were, I would have had Pip take Homagebot with her and have Homage report to her on what's going on. This would have given Pip the much needed final moments with her love (making due with her not physically being there) before she enters the barrier and we'd get to hear how the rest of her friends are doing at the same time.

I can't hate on Kkat too much for how it went about, but it was definitely a let down.

Annnnyway, I don't even wanna speculate on how PH is going to end because Somber has always thrown me for a surprise and it's always done well but I'd still want it to go on forever much like the 100-volume western novels of the 60s-70s that PH parallels.
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The answer is because she's too quiet

Post by Meleagridis on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:52 pm

Luminous Lead wrote:
Also, I'm of the opinion that Glaze&H8Seed's Awoken describes Lacunae/Psalm/TheGoddess pretty spot on. What do you guys think?
I hope so. I really hope so.

swicked wrote:Lacunae dies. All of her is dispersed and Psalm finally makes it to heaven, embraces her goddess, and finally finds peace.

I think something very important needs to happen before she finds peace.

Does Lacunae still seek absolution?

From what we've gathered so far, she spent her dying days hunting down POIs and executing them in a desperate bid for forgiveness, hoping that someone else would remove the weight of misdeeds from her shoulders. Now Lacunae doesn't share much- that's part of why she's my favourite! -and that makes it hard to tell exactly if she's carrying on Psalms mission of atonement. If she is... no way she can simply die. That would be terrible.

No, I think Lacunae's end may be better as no end after all. In my mind, either she or Rampage must go on. Live the lesson of living on.

It is strange. She and Rampage have lived since the war. She and Rampage have sought self-destruction (in their own ways). She and Rampage are composite beings of congealed regret and mistakes.

Why have Lacunae and Rampage not had more moments?

I think the only time they even vaguely talked was after that horrifying meeting with the Choir...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:13 pm

Psalm doesn't seek absolution. Garnet ruined that, telling her she would not be forgiven by Luna. She now only seeks hell, which is why she feels she deserves to be Lacunae.
She still desires, deep down, to be forgiven by Luna, and that will NEVER happen for so long as she is kept away from her.
Unless you think she should give up on wanting to be forgiven? It's pretty core to her being. Maybe BJ and the others can prove to her Luna worth seeking forgiveness from? I think that might actually break Psalm, though...

Psalm, one way or another, cannot simply continue on forever. She lived her entire life. She should not have eternity as well. She wants to be with her friends again... something Echo hopes to have one day, too.

Rampage, though, should get to live her own life, finally 100% free of all other souls and questions of her own existence. Those souls should be laid to rest and she should be allowed to continue, without the phoenix stone, to have her own life all to herself.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CannonFodder on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:17 am

For the topic of lacunae there's the issue of who she'll be when the goddess dies. Will Psalm's soul go back into lacunae's body or will she just stop functioning? If Lacunae still exists when the goddess dies she'll have to come to terms that she is a real pony.

Same with rampage, she's going to have to come to terms with the fact she is a real pony. Her story is beginning to wrap up a bit. That's why Blackjack is giving her the memory orbs so she can find out who she is.

I don't think the ending is going to be everyone getting what they want so much as finding happiness.

P-21 didn't want a daughter, but he found happiness in becoming scotch's father. Psychoshy didn't want a boyfriend to sweep her off her feet, but she found stygius. Scotch tape's mom is still dead, but she found happiness with finding out who her dad is and being loved.

Sometimes happiness isn't getting what you wanted, sometimes happiness is found with love from others.

Angel(the killer inside rampage) kills because she thinks she's giving what she thinks everyone wants the "gift" of feeling no more pain. But the truth is life has pain and hurt in it, people may want this and that to escape the pain. Lacunae/psalm wants forgiveness, rampage wants to die, P-21 wanted med-x, BUT sometimes you just have to endure the pain and often times you don't get what you want, but that doesn't mean they can't find happiness.

. . .I think I'm getting a bit too philosophical.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Meleagridis on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:47 am

swicked wrote:Psalm doesn't seek absolution. Garnet ruined that, telling her she would not be forgiven by Luna. She now only seeks hell, which is why she feels she deserves to be Lacunae.
She still desires, deep down, to be forgiven by Luna, and that will NEVER happen for so long as she is kept away from her.
Unless you think she should give up on wanting to be forgiven? It's pretty core to her being. Maybe BJ and the others can prove to her Luna worth seeking forgiveness from? I think that might actually break Psalm, though...

Garnet told her the truth, and Psalm simply... left. Maybe she believed Garnet's words, or maybe her belief was irrelevant. There was no other option, because Psalm needed salvation. Or, more accurately, Psalm needed someone to give her salvation. She needed Luna to descend from the heavens and proclaim that her sins were forgiven. She needed a Marauder to come back to life and forgive her for all of the mistakes. She needed a desperate and braindead mare as self-loathing as she to crawl inside her brain and say, "I forgive you."

Though I'm not sure if it was enough to really get through.

CORRECTION: Just went back to read that bit and it turns out that she did indeed hear and believe Garnet. So... I don't know. She could have held onto her redemption obsession or she could have spiraled into something entirely more terrible. "Not even Luna could save me." Now I'm back to being in the dark about her motivations. Really makes me eager for the next chapter, honestly. I want to know what happened... assuming she didn't go from this straight to Unity. She had some deaths to confirm and Twilight's was one of them. Hm. Maybe Lacunae was the first one into Unity, aside from the starting four.

Now I can't be certain about what's going on inside that vivisected, transmental, redistributed consciousness of a mind but sometimes it seems that Lacunae needs some of the pep-talk she gives. It's possible that she really has moved on past Psalm's need to be redeemed by another. She might be (by comparison) perfectly healthy. After all, everything we know about Psalm is through her past self. But this also shows how similar they (Lac and Psalm) are and how little she's changed. If she is still holding onto that need, then Blackjack has a much needed lesson on self-forgiveness to deliver.

Who was it that first taught Blackjack to forgive herself like she forgave others? P-21? If it was Lacunae then I'm calling it right now, pep-talk time.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:34 am

Belief is her talent. It is her soul and her cutie mark.
And it's all for Luna. All of it. Goldenblood and Luna drove that into her soul when she was adopted and got her cutie mark. Forgiveness from the marauders would be nice... but she was seeking forgiveness from Luna even while in their company. They are important, but could never be as important as her Goddess.
Her lost faith, right now, in saying that not even Luna could save her is because Luna is dead. Psalm is not dead. They are separated.

This lack of a physical goddess is probably what lead her to join unity. Trixie told her she was her Goddess, and she would forgive her.

In any case, the peace Blackjack felt when she died? That's what Psalm seeks.

At best, maybe Lacunae can carry on without Psalm, like Rampage could carry on without her souls. I just don't think Psalm should need to stay in this world any longer.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CannonFodder on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:03 am

swicked wrote:
In any case, the peace Blackjack felt when she died? That's what Psalm seeks.

At best, maybe Lacunae can carry on without Psalm, like Rampage could carry on without her souls. I just don't think Psalm should need to stay in this world any longer.
Except Psalm in all probability is inside Blackjack.

Also I don't see how it's possible for the souls inside rampage to be removed. They're inside of the soul jar. The only way to remove them would be to destroy the soul jar as well which would kill rampage, and I highly doubt blackjack is going to kill her friend. Granted she shoots rampage in the head, but right now she's immortal. It'd be like her killing scotch tape or glory. NOT going to happen.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Luminous Lead on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:26 am

All this talk is really making me curious of exactly how Lacunae betrayed Blackjack.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:28 am

CannonFodder wrote:Also I don't see how it's possible for the souls inside rampage to be removed. They're inside of the soul jar. The only way to remove them would be to destroy the soul jar as well which would kill rampage, and I highly doubt blackjack is going to kill her friend. Granted she shoots rampage in the head, but right now she's immortal. It'd be like her killing scotch tape or glory. NOT going to happen.
I think megaspells are supposed to be able to do it. I could have sworn it said that somewhere... which means that the souljars that were stuck in the prison are now free, since a balefire bomb was used on them.

In any case, you just figure they should be kept from the afterlife forever? Hundreds to thousands of years after the fic ends Rampage is still going about?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Luminous Lead on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:11 am

swicked wrote:
I think megaspells are supposed to be able to do it. I could have sworn it said that somewhere... which means that the souljars that were stuck in the prison are now free, since a balefire bomb was used on them.

In any case, you just figure they should be kept from the afterlife forever? Hundreds to thousands of years after the fic ends Rampage is still going about?

In any case, don't soul jars cause souls to be expended to power them? I think even with (6?) souls Rampage would wind down eventually. It doesn't really matter too much, since all the souls in Hoofington are getting sucked into Tokomare anyway. Until that monster goes down, all lives will suck, both the mortal and the after.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:57 am

@Luminous Lead
Well, we know at least one Soul Jar would have gotten away from the Hoof. Shhh. Sneaking now.
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BottleCaps as currency: An Theory of Origin

Post by BrentOGara on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:03 am

As soon as I read that Flim & Flam were the makers of "Sparkle Cola", the reasons behind Bottle Caps as currency immediately sprang clear in my mind. F&F are the ultimate unscrupulous salesgeldings, and have shown themselves willing to do anything to make a buck, including all kinds of unethical business practices... including using magic to make their products more profitable.

So what's to stop them from using the "I want it!" magic (that Twi used on her old doll to make everypony want it) on Sparkle Cola bottlecaps? My idea is that the bottle caps (which are stamped and crimped from long sheets of steel stored on rolls, if they're anything like RL bottle caps) are enchanted with the spell. An entire roll of steel sheet (a couple tons on a massive roll) could be enchanted at once, then stamped, printed, and crimped onto the full bottles, with each individual cap taking a small portion of the enchantment placed on the whole. It's just enough to make people 'want' the bottlecap just a little more than is really reasonable, and the enchantment lasts until the cap is melted down or otherwise destroyed. It also boosts sales of Sparkle Cola in a really profitable way!

Those caps, scattered around the wasteland, are magically desirable, but the tiny fraction of the spell on each cap is effectively unnoticeable, and nobody really questions it anyway. It even has the added effect of making bottle caps more desirable the larger the amount is... as the number of caps grows, the tiny fractions of the spell adds up, making the whole pile that much more attractive.

So... how crazy am I?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:27 am

So crazy that it could make sense.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Meleagridis on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:43 pm

swicked wrote:In any case, you just figure they should be kept from the afterlife forever? Hundreds to thousands of years after the fic ends Rampage is still going about?

Personally I'm waiting to see what effect Blackjack's memory therapy is going to have. I don't think it's too unlikely that it will lead to a way to pull out the individuals along with the memories.

Luminous Lead wrote:
In any case, don't soul jars cause souls to be expended to power them?
Nope. Black Book didn't need to eat souls, it just liked watching them go sour.

Does B.B. have a heart crushing side story yet?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:22 pm

@BrentOGara
Methinks Redeye(RandomBlank) had a working theory on bottlecaps as well. Check out the tumblr. I might add a link if I find it.

@Meleagridis
From what I can remember, B.B. was a mad Zebra, probably from the <strike>Stratevakki</strike> star-cursed clans that decided to soul bind himself into several books.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Meleagridis on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:01 pm

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
From what I can remember, B.B. was a mad Zebra, probably from the <strike>Stratevakki</strike> star-cursed clans that decided to soul bind himself into several books.

Well aware.

So where is the story about how the beloved Mazuri, who brought joy and happiness to everyone around him, was torn down piece by piece until what little was left went insane and placed itself inside a book made from the skin of his family? Though personally I would love to see someone tackle the black book without such grimness- so long as it happens.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CannonFodder on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:09 pm

Meleagridis wrote:

Personally I'm waiting to see what effect Blackjack's memory therapy is going to have. I don't think it's too unlikely that it will lead to a way to pull out the individuals along with the memories.

Nope. Black Book didn't need to eat souls, it just liked watching them go sour.

Does B.B. have a heart crushing side story yet?
If blackjack figures out how to pull out individuals it may be possible to pull "angel" out of rampage without killing rampage. Or rampage must learn to cope with nurse candy inside her and resist. Nurse Candy could forcibly take near fillies and colts cause up until recently rampage has just been trying to drown out the souls with mentals or booze. Now that she's actually looking through the memory orbs she's getting better. We haven't seen shujaa in a while, nor officer softheart or doctor octopus. It could be that the way she eventually gets psychological help is that her inner souls and personalities stop trying to escape or such. Not necessarily assimilate as right now she has all those personalities tearing at her mind for control. Once rampage unlocks the memories of the souls or uses the memory orbs of the souls she may get better.


As for the topic of the black book, it was evil cause the soul inside was evil. The spells we've seen from the book aren't necessarily vile spells or such, but the book gives a extreme bias towards wanting to harm others. Think of it as nuclear technology and splitting the atom. It's not necessarily evil, it can be used for good such as nuclear power plants or sterilizing food. However to give a analogy it would be like if the black book was real all it would give out information wise is how to make nuclear bombs and nothing else. Like how it refused to tell Rarity a soul spell until she actually performed it. The reason being is that by itself a soul spell isn't evil, like how snips re-tethered blackjack's soul into her body, but it only gave up the information because rarity wanted to make soul jar armor. Or how hemomancy spell it gave littlepip couldn't just be a weapon, she used it to help her friend stop bleeding from killing joke. Rarity was corrupted by her obsession with protecting her friends. Theoretically if a individual refused to be corrupted by their desires then the black book would be out of luck. Like how littlepip refused to be corrupted by the black book's bias towards hemomancy(blood kineses) and instead of using as a weapon used it for medical purposes.


Basically what I am getting as is information is not evil by itself, it's what you do with it that matters.
BrentOGara wrote:As soon as I read that Flim & Flam were the
makers of "Sparkle Cola", the reasons behind Bottle Caps as currency
immediately sprang clear in my mind. F&F are the ultimate
unscrupulous salesgeldings, and have shown themselves willing to do
anything to make a buck, including all kinds of unethical business
practices... including using magic to make their products more
profitable.

So what's to stop them from using the "I want it!"
magic (that Twi used on her old doll to make everypony want it) on
Sparkle Cola bottlecaps? My idea is that the bottle caps (which are
stamped and crimped from long sheets of steel stored on rolls, if
they're anything like RL bottle caps) are enchanted with the spell. An
entire roll of steel sheet (a couple tons on a massive roll) could be
enchanted at once, then stamped, printed, and crimped onto the full
bottles, with each individual cap taking a small portion of the
enchantment placed on the whole. It's just enough to make people 'want'
the bottlecap just a little more than is really reasonable, and the
enchantment lasts until the cap is melted down or otherwise destroyed.
It also boosts sales of Sparkle Cola in a really profitable way!

Those
caps, scattered around the wasteland, are magically desirable, but the
tiny fraction of the spell on each cap is effectively unnoticeable, and
nobody really questions it anyway. It even has the added effect of
making bottle caps more desirable the larger the amount is... as
the number of caps grows, the tiny fractions of the spell adds up,
making the whole pile that much more attractive.

So... how crazy am I?
That would explain why the soda is popular. The enchantment would be undetectable per soda, but in vending machines or such you would have a strange pull towards buying one that you wouldn't think of otherwise.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:03 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:I would be okay with that. Very okay, even. (Though, as the writer of the song notes, it is a tad off beat on occasion - still good and quite pretty. Oh and the attack [that's what it's called, I think - the "hittiness" of each key press] is a bit strong sometimes IMO, but I'm not a music expert by any stretch of the imagination so I could be totally off base)
You're not off-base.

swicked wrote:This lack of a physical goddess is probably what lead her to join unity. Trixie told her she was her Goddess, and she would forgive her.
That kinda made me think... there's two possibilities when the Goddess dies, right? Either the soul-bits in Lacunae get "amputated" where they are right now and stay put, or everything snaps back to their original owners and Lac becomes Psalm.
Thing is, while Lac has been hanging around Chapel feeling sorry for herself and helping BJ do good, the rest of Psalm -- minus her self-hatred -- has presumably been cheerfully doing Trixie's bidding. When her memory and her morals get back together, it's gonna be bad...

swicked wrote:I think megaspells are supposed to be able to do it. I could have sworn it said that somewhere... which means that the souljars that were stuck in the prison are now free, since a balefire bomb was used on them.
It's unknown. Littlepip wondered whether a balefire bomb could destroy the Black Book, or if it would just be buried forever in a tainted, radioactive tomb.

Luminous Lead wrote:In any case, don't soul jars cause souls to be expended to power them? I think even with (6?) souls Rampage would wind down eventually.
No, souljars do not consume souls for power any more than unicorns expend their souls to perform magic. That was Celestia's whole thesis at the end of FOE: all things that live have to eventually die. Even beings we consider immortal -- Celestia, Luna, the Stars -- ultimately return their souls to the universe. If the soul was eventually consumed, that would itself be death of a sort. But "that’s the real evil of the Black Book. It changes that. It steals death from you and calls it a gift. It’s lying."

BrentOGara wrote:So what's to stop them from using the "I want it!" magic (that Twi used on her old doll to make everypony want it) on Sparkle Cola bottlecaps? [...] So... how crazy am I?
Crazy enough to be right on the money (so to speak, heh.) This is now my headcanon.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:00 pm

Re: Bottlecaps
Ah, here it is:
<a href=http://askredeye.tumblr.com/post/17259150108/a-bottlecaps-legend>Linky</a>
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CannonFodder on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:08 pm

SilentCarto wrote:That kinda made me think... there's two possibilities when the Goddess dies, right? Either the soul-bits in Lacunae get "amputated" where they are right now and stay put, or everything snaps back to their original owners and Lac becomes Psalm.
Thing is, while Lac has been hanging around Chapel feeling sorry for herself and helping BJ do good, the rest of Psalm -- minus her self-hatred -- has presumably been cheerfully doing Trixie's bidding. When her memory and her morals get back together, it's gonna be bad...
I'm going to have to go with amputated. The reason being is that the "Goddess" acts as a central hub to unity which is why lacunae and those cut off in canterlot are the only ones with a different personality. The telepathic ones can only act telepathically NOT send souls across the gap between them. In order for Psalm to come back the goddess would have to reverse unity and put the souls back in. If it was a revert completely to your original body sort of deal then as soon as the goddess died then every alicorn would have snapped back to who they were like a rubber band instead of taking time to revert or develop a identity. The alicorns in canterlot only began reverting after long exposure and only began to revert to their old selves because even though in unity everyone's memories are shared their physical memories are still in place in the original body.

What I mean by that each alicorn acts as a mobile terminal for the goddess. Even though memories and souls are shared alicorns like twilight and the alicorns in canterlot remember their original memories after prolonged times of being cut off from unity. The reason why I think Lacunae will still be is she has gone prolonged periods and often without unity and been in enervation for long periods. She is probably the only alicorn while attached to unity to still have self identity even though it is often washed out. Even though she consists of many souls and many memories she still maintains some for of individuality from unity.

The question however is what is going to happen to her mind when unity is cut? Psalm's memories seem to be in both lacunae and blackjack. It's debatable is psalm's soul is in blackjack. If unity is cut like a string will psalm's soul stay in blackjack? Will Blackjack maintain those memories? Will Lacunae's memories of remorse and regret stay inside her? If the shared memories act as ram then it's going to suck badly for lacunae when it gets deleted.

Personally what I'm betting on is that shared memories act are temporary whereas original memories and memories the alicorn experiences are stored in their actual physical mind and not in unity as well, whereas souls have to physically reside in a pony even if it is across several ponies. I don't think all the shared memories of unity are always stored in every alicorn's mind though, cause that would be way too much information; so much as every pony can access the memories.

So basically $10's on psychological whiplash cranked up to 11 with no more shared memories of unity, only the memories of lacunae and psalm. Lacunae's going to need some serious psychological support
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Derpmind on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:19 am

jacky2734 wrote:Aaand on a completely unrelated topic:
I happened to glance at Somber's Brohoof count, and I do believe that he has the highest Brohoof count on the entire forum. Does everybody just immediately brohoof him whenever he makes a post?

I got a confession to make. I don't really comment on here much anymore, but I still feel a little bit guilty. I used to Brohoof almost every post Somber made. Basically because I like Somber and I could. I don't do it now, obv, but some uncounted hundreds of Somber's Brohoofs come straight from me. So, uh, sorry for that.

And after a scan of this page I find no discussion I can meaningfully add to.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:43 am

@Derpmind
Man, I know I'm not alone in missing some of the old hands. Random and Sindri come to mind for two. Glad you still check and talk every now and again, though! :)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Stringtheory on Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:00 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@Derpmind
Man, I know I'm not alone in missing some of the old hands. Random and Sindri come to mind for two. Glad you still check and talk every now and again, though! :)
yeah, whatever happened to those two? eh, life happens I guess
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:08 pm

Sindri still come here from time to time IIRC, but Random Blank I haven't seen around here in a long while.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Meleagridis on Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:17 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Sindri still come here from time to time IIRC, but Random Blank I haven't seen around here in a long while.

A damn shame, that. Someone with the gumption to run Red Eye was certainly a good thing for the discussion here.

CannonFodder wrote:cantercorns

About those Cantercorns. I may be recalling this incorrectly, but I'm fairly certain that there isn't any evidence saying they regressed to pre-Goddess identities. It is debatable that the people they became might have resembled their past selves, but I don't recall anything supporting that.

I think they just went loopy.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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