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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:27 pm

...throw babies out of bathwater?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vergil on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:35 pm

I'm with OAC because fuck yeah tax returns.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:02 pm

swicked wrote:...throw babies out of bathwater?
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is still an expression we use, right? Actually, come to think of it, we probably DON'T, since we no longer throw out bathwater but instead have drains. Idioms! =P Anyway, link to Wikipedia article. It essentially means, "getting rid of the good in an overzealous attempt to get rid of the bad."
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:35 pm

Somber wrote:So... anyway. Now that I'm home, I can post on this forum. That was why I was saying things on 4chan. I couldn't log into this one on my phone.

So. The con. The story as I understand it was that the con counted on a lot of attendees. Like 800-1000 or so. When they didn't get enough ticket sales, they allowed people to put down a "reservation" or something in lieu of payment. Big mistake. Instead of cancelling, which would have sucked, they went ahead thinking they could drum up enough money to cover the difference. Bigger mistake.

Then the Hotel found out and asked for ALL of their money, now, saturday night. The con organizers folded like wet tissue. They con was basically taken over by the media guys, but by then we were past the critical point. Anyone with a room through the con was threatened to be evicted, which included ALL the VA's, unless they could pay out of pocket. All the airfare went to the hotel, so the VA's had to pay again. The fund drive was to get the VA's home, and I hope it was successful. I understand anyone with a room reserved through the con, and I'm not sure who did and didn't count, had to pay full price. Like yours truly. Oh, and if I didn't pay, they would have evicted me and charged me anyway. Yeah. Thanks, Rivera.

The tragedy is the con itself was pretty enjoyable. Oh, I had an emotional dive Friday afternoon at the concert, but once I got past that, Saturday was good. With a little panel improvement for writers and artists, it would have been even better.

So yes... the lesson is... if your con counts on having 1000 attendees, and you only get 600, don't continue on gambling on the 400 to materialize out of nowhere. You'll go bust... big time.


My brethren want to know two things:

-Why did you come to 4chan's /mlp/ FOE thread? I know you couldn't post on the forum for whichever reason you had, but to be able to search the thread out and then post what you did raised a hell of a lot of eyebrows. Thankfully you came when the thread was quiet and the fact you were so unexpected and unconfirmed for really being you got you off lightly. Still, they're confused and asked me to ask what was up with going there. (Yes, they actually call me out to ask this stuff and it's happened before... always when I'm asleep, too.)

-Do you ever plan to come back to give them the information that you said about beforehand? Now, personally I don't think you should ever go back there because you need a skin that's a lot thicker than you have to shrug off some of the more casual things that tend to come out of 4chan, though since you're so high profile, you'd have to have even thicker skin unless you're Fuzzy.
Even if you've vowed never to go back again, they'd like to know what was going on and to be honest, I would too.
Someone who can easily be emotionally hurt (like yourself) who has low confidence (like yourself) and is such a high profile person amongst the community (like yourself) should always be very wary about going somewhere like that because it'd only end in bad things, so I'm curious as to why you did too.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm

1. /b/ is not 4chan
2. /b/ is not 4chan
3. raids, "anonymous", half of the trolling, half of the shitposting and over half of the bad shit you hear about 4chan is from /b/. /b/ is a single board filled with anarchist kiddies who have yet to grow up. "the internet hate machine" is the tag /b/ earned from CNN or FOX NEWS if I remember correctly for their media trolling.
5. the great Jimmy Russell shootings was the last funny thing /b/ did as a collective
6. /mlp/ isn't trolls and shit spam like you all assume it is
7. If it wasn't for /co/ none of you would have any of this. Maybe one or two people would watch with children, but /co/ made the fandom at all possible.
8. The people in the FOE threads have their own opinions and they're as valid as anyone else's. They simply have a lot less tolerance for what they consider to be acceptable.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:53 pm

4chan seems to be nerds who love memes and ironically using hate speech and doing really immature stuff under the shield of anonymity. There was some of that stuff in that very thread. I wouldn't call it a thick/thin skin thing but mostly how much annoyance you're willing to put up. Doesn't appeal to me. Those dudes in that forum may say some interesting stuff but I'm never gonna read it there.

Much like reddit with the whole child pornography thing, even though the users may not necessarily support it, I'm not going there based on the fact that the people that run it either condone or ignore the reprehensible shit that goes on there by some people and don't do anything about it under the guise of free speech.

Like it or not, other more mature forums exist for discussing pony, so there's no need for any of those dudes to stay there (and really, why bother if there's a place to identify yourself at like this forum).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by nebulous on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:17 pm

Hey Somber, just dropping by to say: I love the latest chapter, love how the story is going, look forward to seeing the stuff you have planned Vitiosus and think he's pretty rad, and found the Shattered Hoof scene to be amazingly good. (And the Celestia assassination didn't make sense in the original F:E, and your adjustment made it make sense, imo.)

On another note, the name of the largest known galaxy in real life is... IC 1101.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:17 pm

Oh, not saying it hasn't got more than its fair share of immaturity and it DEFINITELY is 96% geeks on all boards except /fit/ and maybe /diy/.
However, to sum up 4chan in general from what you've heard about /b/ is a terrible thing to do, especially as a /g/entleman and a horsefucker ponyfag.

They stay there because of a few reasons:

1. It's well known and generates a lot of traffic, leading into:
2. It's easy to post there. No sign up, easy to come and go as you please. They probably are signed up elsewhere too, but the ability to post pictures with posts is damn handy.
3. High profile people like Fuzzy go there
4. it has so much more than simple FOE talk
5. other little reasons
6. Honestly, they prefer the atmosphere and part of me doesn't blame them
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:27 pm

@Kipper
If you want my honest guess, I'd say it's a sort of self-destructive behavior. When we're down, we often tend to seek out things that will make us feel worse, I've found. None of us are ultimately logical, rational creatures.

I could be wrong in this instance, though! And god knows I am not a trained psychologist (if I was, I'd know not to guess about things like this).

Regarding the chan, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and to express it how they wish. The natural corollary to that is that I feel free to judge people for how they choose to do the latter. I'd like to think I'm pretty forgiving about it, but I must admit, I do judge people on it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:37 pm

Well first of all, I'd like to thank you for not just shouting: "4CHAN IS FULL OF EVIL, EVIL PEOPLE AND INTERNET HATE MACHINE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M ON ABOUT BECAUSE SMALL MINORITY!"
(Which for the record, even /b/ isn't entirely evil. Mostly spam actually.)

Secondly, a proper response from me:
It probably is something like that. I know when I was depressed I always did go to places that would only make me feel worse (both IRL and on the internet) because it was what I knew.
4chan can be harsh on people at times, but generally it's more about openness and honesty because you're not truly accountable for what you say.

You're still responsible, but accountable? Not unless the admins want to hunt you down or you make a name for yourself in a big way.
I know it isn't the best place for anyone who actually creates their own content (stories, music or art) to go if they're high profile or just starting out, but if you can handle some flak then you can rest assured you'll get much more honest answers because no-one feels obliged to be any friendlier to you and most won't be assholes to the extreme.
Sure, you get some people being a little nastier from time to time, but not often or by much.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Stringtheory on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:42 pm

I really don't understand the -chan format, as well as reddit, plus I avoid those places because I want to retain what little productivity I have
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:24 am

Anonymity somestimes helps people be honest. It more often just makes them feel they can say whatever they want.
People ready and willing to stand by their words are far more truthful and forthcoming than those that can say one thing one minute and another the next without fear that anyone will call them on it.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:41 am

Anonymity can also lead to proving the GIFT, which is pretty sad.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by StoneSlinger88 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:57 am

When we're sad we'll listen to depressing songs or watch a sad movie. In something I gleaned from listening to smarter people, it can be a way of expressing one's sorrows, letting it out. We want to feel like there's others like us who understand what's happening that we can sympathize with.

As for the -chan thing, I really don't care for them. Just more time on the internet I'm currently spending on other things, like college.

And Somber, stop being so hard on yourself. You made a decision. Whether its good or bad all depends on how you keep making your decisions. Personally, I liked the chapter and the Legate, and have confidence that you know what you're doing (even if you think you don't). Don't let someone else make you nervous or discourage you from doing something.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:13 am

Oh, can someone update the big ePub? It hasn't been updated in a while.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Train Dodger on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:28 am

Caoimhe wrote:Oh, can someone update the big ePub? It hasn't been updated in a while.

I've been using this version, by HGBLoneWolf. Seems like it stays updated regularly.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:37 am

Kipper, I said 4chan, not /b/. I said what I meant.

I have spent some time on 4chan, and I found it to be a few gems of interesting and thoughtful discussion buried under a mountain of complaining, unfunny memes, and trolling. And this is outside of /b/, mind you.

I appreciate that the whole brony thing started there, but this fact does not fill me with gratitude. Rather I take it as proof that something good can come from even a terrible environment, or as my father would say it, "even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while".

I note that while the fandom started in /co/, it also left soon afterward due to persecution, by not only other users but admins. Do I need to remind you why "mods are asleep, post ponies" is a thing?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:49 am

StoneSlinger88 wrote:When we're sad we'll listen to depressing songs or watch a sad movie. In something I gleaned from listening to smarter people, it can be a way of expressing one's sorrows, letting it out. We want to feel like there's others like us who understand what's happening that we can sympathize with.
When I feel bad about myself I sometimes just want people to confirm it and validate my bad feels. It's a weird aspect of human psychology... the desire to be right, even if it's about something terrible.


Last edited by swicked on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:02 pm

FeatherDust wrote:Kipper, I said 4chan, not /b/. I said what I meant.

I have spent some time on 4chan, and I found it to be a few gems of interesting and thoughtful discussion buried under a mountain of complaining, unfunny memes, and trolling. And this is outside of /b/, mind you.

I appreciate that the whole brony thing started there, but this fact does not fill me with gratitude. Rather I take it as proof that something good can come from even a terrible environment, or as my father would say it, "even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while".

I note that while the fandom started in /co/, it also left soon afterward due to persecution, by not only other users but admins. Do I need to remind you why "mods are asleep, post ponies" is a thing?

Mods are asleep post ponies is a joke.
I don't need reminding of that, I'm a veteran of the great banwaves.
In the end, what killed the /b/read wasn't their banwaves but one of our own members.

Never went to /co/ myself, too autistic. Nope, I just hung around the /b/read for the time it was good... before it died.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Mister Nikel on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:34 pm

Hmm lots of things happening lately in the fandom eh?
Glad Somber is not stranded. As for *chans, they are the ultimate expression of the human mind. A unity if you will. I like to go there for scientific reasons to study human psychology. It's fascinating from that point o view.

Also
chapter was not that bad but I think you need to listen to Snipehamster
or "The hero that Project Horizons needs" more. Editors job is not just
proofreading after all. He might want to get too involved though and
that might turn out worse. As for Sindri? He loves you so much that he
will stand by your choices even if the world around you will burn to the
ground. A bit biased in your favor. Juggle these two around. They both
provide helpful feedback. Don't know the others(?) too well to judge
them.

Also I suppose with the way recent events have unfolded are we going to have a break from PH for a while?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Snipehamster on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:00 pm

Also chapter was not that bad but I think you need to listen to Snipehamster or "The hero that Project Horizons needs" more.
Power trip! Whee!

@The 'let Somber do what he wants' crowd: I offer only my own opinions and advice. While I can be somewhat harsh with my criticisms at times, and perhaps a little too forward with the "if PH were mine I'd do this" approach, it's with the best of intentions. I don't want to boss Somber around, no matter how much it might look like it. I want to help Somber build PH into the best story it can be, and from my perspective the opposite has been happening lately.

/B/-esque 'kill urself PH sux' feedback is useless, but from a critical perspective so is 'omg PH is best ever thing do whatever u want fuk teh haterz' feedback. Somber is talented and dedicated, no doubt, but also human. He will (and does) make mistakes just like everyone else. Far less than he thinks, but still. If Hinds, Bro and I aren't looking out for that, we're not doing our jobs.

That's why I do my best to ask hard questions, offer suggestions, and let them stand or fall on their own merits. Recent events in-story have simply prompted me to do so more often and more loudly, and look upon the rest of the story with a more critical eye.

@Somber: My deepest sympathies for the debacle at Unicon.


Last edited by Snipehamster on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:15 pm

Snipe, you've been a PH editor for forever and a day, I can't imagine anyone doesn't think you don't have the best intentions for the fic... and I don't think I've seen any posts on this forum quite as blatantly fanboy-ish as you are describing.

In any case, I appreciate you posting on the forum more, particularly when you have strong feelings about the direction of the fic. I hope you continue to do so as you've generated some very good discussion.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Snipehamster on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 pm

swicked wrote:Snipe, you've been a PH editor for forever and a day
Since Chapter 28. No idea how I remembered that, but there you go. Technically I'm still the 'new guy'.

swicked wrote:and I don't think I've seen any posts on this forum quite as blatantly fanboy-ish as you are describing.
I exaggerated for comic effect, but I think the tone is appropriate.

swicked wrote:In any case, I appreciate you posting on the forum more, particularly when you have strong feelings about the direction of the fic. I hope you continue to do so as you've generated some very good discussion.
Thank you. I'll try!

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Mister Nikel on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:30 pm

Probably should not say anything about this but...


Well, Since we are pretty sure that it really WAS Somber, is there a
consensus to support him and keep reading his fic? I know I will. Just
because it has some pretty gaping problems doesn't mean that I didn't
(or don't) enjoy reading it. I mean fuck, i nearly read it three times.
(I know right?) I think Somber should finish it anyway. With that much
time dedicated to it, he deserves a chance to finish it and to have at
least a small audience. Patiently waiting for the next chapter.

>>8645438
As
a rule, I still really fucking love Project Horizons and would love to
see Somber pull it up to a much higher quality before the end.... which I
believe is sorely needed.

>>8645438
Should he finish it?
Definitely,
but I will not encourage others to read it past a certain point. I hope
he can return PH back to what it once was, but I have my doubts.

>>8645438
I'm going to keep reading it.
I want him to keep writing.
But you know, less bullshit.

>>8645497
I
agree, and I really feel for the guy. Putting so much time and effort
into something to get toward the end and people are starting to hate it.

I'd go insane trying to fix it, or die trying.


Some people still have good things to say.

(Did Somber just make Anon feel bad? Holy shit.)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:43 pm

Mister Nikel wrote:Probably should not say anything about this but...
-SNIP-
(Did Somber just make Anon feel bad? Holy shit.)

Now do you see why I'm out of favour with everyone who dismisses the entirety of 4chan as trolls and immaturity?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:41 pm

I finished the chapter!
Holy hell!
That took forever! D:

Gonna go read comments now.
Dunno quite why I'm announcing this, to be honest, but when you're the last horse to cross the finish line... well, you might as well be inexplicably proud of it.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Exodus Hero on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:55 pm

swicked wrote:I finished the chapter!
Holy hell!
That took forever! D:

Gonna go read comments now.
Dunno quite why I'm announcing this, to be honest, but when you're the last horse to cross the finish line... well, you might as well be inexplicably proud of it.

What's important is you finished it. *thumbs up* :D
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If someone beat me to both of these I'll bloody freak

Post by Meleagridis on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:58 pm

Let me preface this by saying I am by no means caught up yet. I've still got some six pages to go before I see everything that's been said before this here post but I've been catching up for too darn long and some things are burning holes in my pockets. A few things, but I'm just going to leave two.

First off, everyone should take a quick looksie at this, a neat little page of two of the nicest bits of PH fanwork.

Snipehamster wrote: [legate] then decides to wander off and fap because for some arbitrary reason BJ can't die yet.

Spoiler:
Dude's been looking for someone who might be able to kill him for how long? Beginning of sentient life? Now she shows up, but she isn't even calling down the sun to boil the seas yet. Is it so much to hope that, with just a little bit more time, it could finally happen? What's a couple more months next to the beginning of time?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:02 pm

I have to admit, I loved when he popped Lancer's eye and said "Look, Maiden! Another life you've ruined."

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Snipehamster on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:28 pm

swicked wrote:I have to admit, I loved when he popped Lancer's eye and said "Look, Maiden! Another life you've ruined."
I agree. That was a solid 'look how evil this guy is' moment, and the fact that it was pretty much a verbal bitchslap for BJ was a nice bonus.

On the other hand, I think it kinda calls attention to the fact that Lancer's entire role in the story so far (since Ch.9) has been limited to:
1. Present a challenging foe for BJ (She has plenty already).
2. Make BJ's life miserable for no particular reason (She's suicidally miserable without him).
3. Give tiny snippets of distant foreshadowing.

So far as the main plot is concerned, his role has been to (veeeeery slowly) introduce an endgame faction which, in my opinion, isn't needed. As I mentioned before, we already have an apocalyptic cult. And now Lancer's being cast aside and humiliated. From here, I can only see this going one of two ways: either he tries to redeem himself in his father's eyes and finally gets put down by BJ and co., or he becomes Psychoshy II: a betrayed, disillusioned former villain with a lifetime's worth of daddy issues.

I think I'll stick to my guns and say that (ideally) PH would be better off without the Remnant in the first place.
Meleagridis wrote:
Spoiler:
Dude's been looking for someone who might
be able to kill him for how long? Beginning of sentient life? Now she
shows up, but she isn't even calling down the sun to boil the seas yet.
Is it so much to hope that, with just a little bit more time, it could
finally happen? What's a couple more months next to the beginning of
time?
Spoiler:
He's an ancient, legendary zebra for sure. But not one that dates back to the dawn of sentience (unless Sekashi's story was wrong). And while I don't know (and couldn't spoil if I did) his ultimate motive for 100% certain, I do have a number of firm ideas and none of them nescessitate BJ's survival.


Last edited by Snipehamster on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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