[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Vergil wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:

Vergil wrote:Most of the major powers involved in the Second World War were on similar tracks where high steam is concerned, but each had taken the matter in its own direction by 1939. The Japanese did limited experimentation with higher pressures and temperatures in their destroyers mainly, but a lack of the proper alloys and shipyard capacity meant that changes for them never showed up in force.

Ahh, so your point is that the Japanese had a thirstier fleet which necessitated more logistical support, which was thus more expensive to maintain and more vulnerable to submarine raids?

Assuming you're talking about my thesis...actually not at all, that's just a little bit of excess knowledge I picked up on the subject while doing research. My argument is that although the adoption of high steam came with serious benefits for the US Navy, history appears to have utterly forgotten the fact that it also completely wrecked the US's wartime naval building program and caused severe shortages of both ships and spare parts until 1944. The problem was so acute that in April 1943 alone there were 60 destroyers that had been completed but lacked power plants, a number of which ultimately waited six months before they finally received one.

SilentCarto wrote:*The battlecruiser is supposed to be able to "run from anything it can't fight". That means you don't use it to go hunting battleships.

Apparently the Brits didn't get the memo after Jutland like they thought they did.

We got the memo, but we said fuck that, stiff upper lip boys we're going hunting.
DEATH BEFORE DISHONOUR, GLORY IN DEATH.

Well, for what it's worth I know the operating procedure for the Bismarck hunt was literally "throw whatever the bloody hell we have at it," but that's still a shame because the Hood was a dead sexy ship.

Kippershy wrote:

Vergil wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:*The battlecruiser is supposed to be able to "run from anything it can't fight". That means you don't use it to go hunting battleships.

Apparently the Brits didn't get the memo after Jutland like they thought they did.

We got the memo, but we said fuck that, stiff upper lip boys we're going hunting.
DEATH BEFORE DISHONOUR, GLORY IN DEATH.

There's all sort of Naval engagements that demonstrate one ship no matter how outgun a single ship is you can win a fight but just being plain old crazier than your opponent in aggressiveness. Shouting Waaagh and charging into your enemy can work just great if it's totally unexpected.... not so much if that's your favorite and often used tactic.

@Mikas still reading.

@Cpt: Ah, okies. I see :P

@Mele: No, I am not. But like I said: It hit a "vital area". And actually feeling rather fine now.

Mikas wrote:
Plus I find that the amount of atrocities ascribable to Rainbow Dash and Applejack to be lacking in both detail and impact. What I recall is that RD killed hundreds if not thousands and performed/approved black-ops (maybe it's just me being naive/desensitized but I don't find the same level of horror as Fluttershy/Pinkie Pie messing with memories or Rarity with her Soul experiments) while AJ made weapons and technology which killed thousands (and (indirectly) made technologies such as the terminal and PipBucks and created the Steel Rangers which have been all over the sliding scale of did good and did worse).

I guess my issue with it is that I haven't been given a good enough grasp of just what the MAw and the MWT have done (probably because I am inexperienced and naive/idealistic). The worst thing that Applejack ever did was not control her underlings and the worst that we've seen/know of Rainbow Dash was that she was a damn good soldier.

So, that's partly because of the Ministries, they are the ones that did the best job of wearing white hats. Going from the Sparkle~Cola memory orb in FoE chapter 17, neither MWT/Applejack nor MoA/Rainbow Dash had really done anything that wrong in the execution of their duties. At least, this is the belief held by the CMCs not long before the megaspells fell. And they would know if something shady happened under AJ's watch; they had close ties to her (obviously) and worked closely with MWT.

You could make the argument that they wouldn't know much of what was going on at MoA, but there I just have to wonder how much there could be there. The window for real atrocities wouldn't even begin to open until Luna took power, I would expect it to take time for RD to build up to anything really bad, and the window shuts when, or at least soon after, megaspell tech is leaked. Going further, there's the fact that much of the shock from MoM comes from the fact that its activities are directed at Equestrians (so MoA doesn't really have that strike against it), there's no way RD pulls a Fluttershy and betrays (YYMV) Equestria, and the population-ending activities are covered by Twilight's megaspell research. And based on Scootaloo's Rarity-centric dialogue in the orb, I'm guessing she's not talking about MoI censoring print materials or making propaganda--and frankly I don't see MoA doing much research outside of SPP, so it wouldn't be shattering the boundaries of scientific ethics like MoI did through the soul research.

Long story short, there's no reason to think that they really did anything all that bad (considering the total-war context, and assuming I'm not blanking on anything vital--I'm thinking the worst from AJ is the mismanagement and issue regarding AP munitions, and the worst we've seen from RD is maybe the botched Zecora op). True, that may reduce the stories to be told centering on them, but in my opinion enriches the universe by, first, showing that you did have some ponies in authority who pretty much held it together and stayed on the light side, and second, potentially increasing their value as characters the others can play off of in their own stories.

Because I haven't said it to everyone yet;

Welcome to everyone who has begun posting.
May I warn you, that between me and Kattlarv (Kim), there is nothing to fear.
Everything is going to be okay and sane.

I am the manager (Somber being the exec owner) and have a good time at happyhorns mental institution resort!
If you have any problems, please feel free to run and scream in panic speak to me or any of the other reps!

Uhh... Yea... About Happyhorn... We kinda got it destroyed by an Enclave Raptor... Yea...

Aonee wrote:Uhh... Yea... About Happyhorn... We kinda got it destroyed by an Enclave Raptor... Yea...

I wouldn't say that, we're not quite sure what happened to it.

Happy horn seemed to disappear after project horizons got its own RP thread, so I'm guessing it was relocated, or at least the overload of mental energy was relocated, there.

@Icy Shake
I will reply once Captain Adder has expressed his views on my limited perspective.

Cptadder wrote:@Mikas still reading.

Somehow I feel a vague sense of dread at the idea that I may enter into an internet debate with an intellectually superior and more experienced individual. To quote a line from a song
"Dying of Anticipation"

Something was bugging me since I posted and I just figured it out.

I forgot to thank the editorial team!

To Snipehamster, Ohinds (did I spell that right?), and Bronode,

I cannot possibly thank you enough for the work you put into making sure that Project Horizon's is as amazing as it can be. I wish I could understand just what kind of hardships and work you persevere through for this story just so I properly thank you for doing so.

You all selflessly devote your time, energy, and focus. I just wish you would get the recognition for such dedication as you deserve.

If Somber creates and gives life to this story and its multitude of characters, then you are the people who make sure that the logic is logical, the limbs are actually limbs (and not cake or something), and that the facts are as factual as factually possible.

I wish I could better show my appreciation beyond these digital characters.


I am such a bad pony for forgetting to acknowledge the work that you've put into this production despite the fact that I hate letting the contribution of others go unnoticed and unappreciated.

[EDIT]: Sorry for the double post.

Icy Shake wrote:
Frankly I don't see MoA doing much research outside of SPP, so it wouldn't be shattering the boundaries of scientific ethics like MoI did through the soul research.

Long story short, there's no reason to think that they really did anything all that bad (considering the total-war context, and assuming I'm not blanking on anything vital--I'm thinking the worst from AJ is the mismanagement and issue regarding AP munitions, and the worst we've seen from RD is maybe the botched Zecora op). True, that may reduce the stories to be told centering on them, but in my opinion enriches the universe by, first, showing that you did have some ponies in authority who pretty much held it together and stayed on the light side, and second, potentially increasing their value as characters the others can play off of in their own stories.

The MoA was involved in project Starfall, which could possibly end up having been immoral

@Mikas

Now I feel bad for never thanking them. All I did was praise Somber and forget there is more to the magic than just the author.

I will make this my formal thanks to the editorial team as well! For I have just realized I have not been giving them the appreciation they deserve, how selfish of me.

Thank you all for making PH the greatest it can possibly be!

And thank you all here in the forum that have stuck with Somber all this time giving her the dedication and want to continue this project regardless of the tribulations that life throws at her, you are all amazing!

iLateralGX wrote:It was only a Google search, they my not cover as much as we figured.
That or it has been resized, that might throw it off for all I know.

Yeah, it did get resized by the commenting system, but would bring up a full-sized image whenever you clicked on it.
BTW, it sounds like you have Forza 4 also. If you're ever interested in a race, my tag's listed in the XBL gamertags post on the forums.

jacky2734 wrote:

Aonee wrote:Uhh... Yea... About Happyhorn... We kinda got it destroyed by an Enclave Raptor... Yea...

I wouldn't say that, we're not quite sure what happened to it.

Yeah...it's kind of in that state of splodey/nonsplodey right now...

RoboRed wrote:

iLateralGX wrote:It was only a Google search, they my not cover as much as we figured.
That or it has been resized, that might throw it off for all I know.

Yeah, it did get resized by the commenting system, but would bring up a full-sized image whenever you clicked on it.
BTW, it sounds like you have Forza 4 also. If you're ever interested in a race, my tag's listed in the XBL gamertags post on the forums.

Gotcha, found it, gonna add ya soon. My GT is pretty much the same as my forum name so, you know be on the lookout for that.

So. Higgs Boson. Railguns. "Sombereros"*, new people, nuclear reactors, and bees.

I love this thread.

stringtheory wrote:...please post this on FiMfiction, and I will eagerly follow it waiting to see what's next

All the feels. All of them.

Yeah, now that I'm out of class for a while, and I need something to occupy my time, I think I'll try to get back to writing regularly. And now I know where to start.

And yes, Drifter's a bit of a prick. I wanted to write an "evil" (Read: negative karma) character who was genuinely interesting and sympathetic instead of "lol I kick puppies derp". Where better to go than the Enclave for your morally conflicted, arrogant jerkwad? And besides, I think it's about time the FoE-verse had a straight male pegasus protagonist. Damn unicorns, prancing about like they own the place, murdering goddesses and fillyfooling and whatnot!
RE school, above: Guess who managed a 98 on their cognitive psych final? This guy!

*So, if we're Sombereros, are we... grey hats? *ba-dump-pish*

/Is shot.

Cptadder wrote:

Vergil wrote:
Fair enough. Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the WWII-era Alaska class large cruisers and modern Kirov class guided missile cruisers? Would you consider either of those a battlecruiser as well?

I am with the Alaska's which I consider close to battlecruiser status except the gun armament was on the light side (Triple turrets are just a bad idea in general) and the Kirov is simply to modern to really fall into that classification system as by the end of 1944 that you could simply not armor a Battleship enough to let it laugh off attacks due to torpedoes which is part of the old Battleship and Ship of the Line Designations is of a ship that can stand firm and shrug off enemy fire of anything that comes into range... or at least that's the idea.

Somehow I missed this earlier. Woops.

I'm with you on all counts here. The Alaskas, from what I recall, were simply an attempt to "one-up" everyone else on cruiser size and armament. In that they had a role somewhat similar to what a battlecruiser is supposed to do, but a totally different theory behind their design. Hence the designation of "CB" mister SilentCarto!

The Kirov being called a battlecruiser I feel to be more of wishful thinking on the part of the public more than anything else. You're not alone in missing the "big boys" as I think you phrased it; it really doesn't seem like there are very many people out there who are ready to let the battleship concept go entirely. The Kirov, though, is a very large cruiser, that's all there is to it.

Quotidian wrote:
So. Higgs Boson. Railguns. "Sombereros"*, new people, nuclear reactors, and bees.

I love this thread.

Sorry, my passion got mentioned so I couldn't help but open my mouth! I do also love this thread though.

Quotidian wrote:So. Higgs Boson. Railguns. "Sombereros"*, new people, nuclear reactors, and bees.

I love this thread.

stringtheory wrote:...please post this on FiMfiction, and I will eagerly follow it waiting to see what's next

All the feels. All of them.

Yeah, now that I'm out of class for a while, and I need something to occupy my time, I think I'll try to get back to writing regularly. And now I know where to start.

And yes, Drifter's a bit of a prick. I wanted to write an "evil" (Read: negative karma) character who was genuinely interesting and sympathetic instead of "lol I kick puppies derp". Where better to go than the Enclave for your morally conflicted, arrogant jerkwad? And besides, I think it's about time the FoE-verse had a straight male pegasus protagonist. Damn unicorns, prancing about like they own the place, murdering goddesses and fillyfooling and whatnot!
RE school, above: Guess who managed a 98 on their cognitive psych final? This guy!

*So, if we're Sombereros, are we... grey hats? *ba-dump-pish*

/Is shot.

That story idea sounds interesting (as in it sounds like an amazing idea). I'll have to check it out.

Gratz on the 98! Sounds like it was hard to study for.
"Who's awesome? Your awesome!"

/loads another .50cal round into AM Rifle

Oh, also, hello to the new ex-lurkers.

Quotidian wrote:So. Higgs Boson. Railguns. "Sombereros"*, new people, nuclear reactors, and bees.

I love this thread.

Also my crackpot theory with absolutely no evidence to back it that Stygius is actually a bona fide vampire. That too.

Hehehe, After reading about the cult of Sombreros I made it my religion in Civ V Kings and Gods game.

Ki-Tarn wrote:Hehehe, After reading about the cult of Sombreros I made it my religion in Civ V Kings and Gods game.

I wonder how Somber feels knowing that she has a cult now...

iLateralGX wrote:

Ki-Tarn wrote:Hehehe, After reading about the cult of Sombreros I made it my religion in Civ V Kings and Gods game.

I wonder how Somber feels knowing that she has a cult now...

Probably awkward...Or scared since the thread is probably still going into scary places.

But that's just how I imagine he feels. For all I know she could be laughing maniacally from within a Volcano Fortress protected by his army of Cyborg Ninja Pirate Minions. Oh and she's sipping from a wineglass.

Yay for imagination

Well, some bad news: due to Somber's mother's horribleness (and, while it's not my place to share the details... yeah, horribleness), the remaining brushing has been postponed to tomorrow.

O. Hinds wrote:Well, some bad news: due to Somber's mother's horribleness (and, while it's not my place to share the details... yeah, horribleness), the remaining brushing has been postponed to tomorrow.

Oh dear.

I can wait for as long as Somber needs. Making sure that your Personal Life is in order is something that I can respect.

Thank you for telling...hmmm don't want to say "us" here since that would be taking another's opinion for granted but "me" sounds too selfish...Aha!

Thank you for relaying this information.

This is how I feel reading this thread.

O. Hinds wrote:Well, some bad news: due to Somber's mother's horribleness (and, while it's not my place to share the details... yeah, horribleness), the remaining brushing has been postponed to tomorrow.

Ah, well, I hope relations improve between him and his mother. Thank you for relaying the information.

Vergil wrote:The Alaskas, from what I recall, were simply an attempt to "one-up" everyone else on cruiser size and armament. In that they had a role somewhat similar to what a battlecruiser is supposed to do, but a totally different theory behind their design. Hence the designation of "CB" mister SilentCarto!

I admit they were light in the gun department, but I feel that the design purpose -- a fast cruiser-killer -- is what defines the battlecruiser. But I think this is a bit of an "is it porn?" argument -- the term "battlecruiser" isn't well-defined, so an edge case like this is similarly ambiguous.

P.S. My point about "CB" was that it seems to suggest "Cruiser, Battle" when compared to CA for "Armored (Heavy) Cruiser" and CL for "Light Cruiser". I know the Lexington-class battlecruisers were designated CC before they were redesigned as carriers, but again, outright calling them "battlecruisers" was probably considered politically unwise at the time. Granted, since CL was already taken, it might also be read as "Cruiser, Big".

O. Hinds wrote:Well, some bad news: due to Somber's mother's horribleness (and, while it's not my place to share the details... yeah, horribleness), the remaining brushing has been postponed to tomorrow.

Aw... Remote hugs for Somber.

Mikas wrote:Something was bugging me since I posted and I just figured it out.

I forgot to thank the editorial team!

To Snipehamster, Ohinds (did I spell that right?), and Bronode,

I cannot possibly thank you enough for the work you put into making sure that Project Horizon's is as amazing as it can be. I wish I could understand just what kind of hardships and work you persevere through for this story just so I properly thank you for doing so.

You all selflessly devote your time, energy, and focus. I just wish you would get the recognition for such dedication as you deserve.

If Somber creates and gives life to this story and its multitude of characters, then you are the people who make sure that the logic is logical, the limbs are actually limbs (and not cake or something), and that the facts are as factual as factually possible.

I wish I could better show my appreciation beyond these digital characters.


I am such a bad pony for forgetting to acknowledge the work that you've put into this production despite the fact that I hate letting the contribution of others go unnoticed and unappreciated.

[EDIT]: Sorry for the double post.

Thank you.

iLateralGX wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Well, some bad news: due to Somber's mother's horribleness (and, while it's not my place to share the details... yeah, horribleness), the remaining brushing has been postponed to tomorrow.

Ah, well, I hope relations improve between her and her mother. Thank you for relaying the information.

Yeah... I don't think that that's likely. Better to hope that Somber can get into a position where his mother can't make him miserable. He'll be away from home for about a week, so we're hoping that he'll be able to have an easier time then.