Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by iLateralGX Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:23 am

ketchup504 wrote:In that five letter word, we have ingenuity and skill wrapped up in condensed in awesome form, excess from writing the extra-awesome.

To put it scientifically.
Fuck yeah.

by Mikas Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:28 am

ketchup504 wrote:In that five letter word, we have ingenuity and skill wrapped up in condensed in awesome form, excess from writing the extra-awesome.

A single. Perfect tear.

...
PRAISE SOMBER!

by Scootayay Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:46 am

Looks like Somber got her own cul- ALL GLORY TO OUR GREY GODESS

by Kattlarv Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:15 am

@Everypony: Merry 4'th whatever it now is for.

@Wave: (Reply) I know rite? I like to reply to stuff as well. And it's "less text" to scroll past.
And will do, it's very random and doesn't seem to know what it is as of far. According to the current proofreader. Totally normal for my work [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 779695502

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 779695502

@Mikas: Welcome. And I'm legally required to tell you to avoid my spoiler topics if off weak heart xD

@Everypony: Speaking of spoilered content... xD
Just going to do a short rant of a clopfic with a really stupid content imo: (semi-tmi and the regular adult matters. Oh, and ranting, quite lots of it. Doing a small vent)

Spoiler:

(Cult) Is it now I'm supposed to mention my pet gecko has enough followers to be classed as a religion if I filed the proper paperworks?

by Sindri Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:32 am

Cptadder wrote:We won't be building battleships, battlecrusiers... or dreadnaughts anytime soon.

Sorry, should have said... warship is the generic? Yeah, there's still not much advantage to making a bigger ship than a heavy cruiser unless you can put aircraft on it, and the cost goes way up.

ketchup504 wrote:Not to mention the possible capability of putting a railgun on a semi-mobile platform for use on land, like they did with the Phalanx CIWS.

It'll be a while. Between the power supply, the cooling systems, etc. there are a lot of factors that don't make much of a problem in a nuclear-powered cruiser, but would be issues on land. It would be relatively easy to put one in an immobile fortification, either hooked up to the nation's power grid or with a reactor of its own. You might be able to get one on a train car, like they did with some of the sillier cannon designs in the past. But an independent mobile platform would probably require several more years of advancement in power generation or storage, and handheld electromagnetic weapons are a long way off.

In other SCIENCE!!! stuff, they might have found the Higgs Bosen on Wednesday.

WOOO!!

swicked wrote:
Mikas wrote:Thanks for the confidence boost. I'm always really nervous with these close knit/circle groups that I often just watch rather than try to join.
...who's close knit? I don't think anyone here's all that exclusive. I don't think anyone shares all that much of their lives, either.
The most I've ever felt is a general sense of everyone enjoying each other's company.
Unless I've suddenly become involved in something without knowing it o_o

D'awww, you got assimilated and didn't even notice! That's how futile resistance is!

@Kattlarv
wat.

Spoiler:

Oh, and to those new to the Sombereros, any spoiler tags replying to Kim here should also be treated with caution.

by Cptadder Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:00 am

Sindri wrote:
Cptadder wrote:We won't be building battleships, battlecrusiers... or dreadnaughts anytime soon.
Sorry, should have said... warship is the generic? Yeah, there's still not much advantage to making a bigger ship than a heavy cruiser unless you can put aircraft on it, and the cost goes way up.

As a Navy guy it's one of this things that irks me (...because I wish we still were building the big boys) Warship is the correct term, Battleship is a class for a specific weight limit. To me it's like when the local news reporter mentions the bank was robbed today by two masked men with machine guns and then link to bank footage of one man holding a pistol and the other man very obviously armed with a pump action shotgun. There are no Battleships left in service anywhere and technically the Iowa's were only Battle cruisers (Only in this point just means they were Battleships that trade armor for extra speed).

Just in today's world big ships make no sense. But then in twenty years manned aircraft will make no sense once we mate a power enough laser with a good tracking system and a excellent radar. We have the radar already and the tracking system, it's just the laser we are waiting on.

Sindri wrote:
ketchup504 wrote:Not to mention the possible capability of putting a railgun on a semi-mobile platform for use on land, like they did with the Phalanx CIWS.
It'll be a while. Between the power supply, the cooling systems, etc. there are a lot of factors that don't make much of a problem in a nuclear-powered cruiser, but would be issues on land. It would be relatively easy to put one in an immobile fortification, either hooked up to the nation's power grid or with a reactor of its own. You might be able to get one on a train car, like they did with some of the sillier cannon designs in the past. But an independent mobile platform would probably require several more years of advancement in power generation or storage, and handheld electromagnetic weapons are a long way off.

Exactly, cooling systems are not actually that big of an issue with railguns because the crazy high energy budget means you have plenty of power to vent heat quickly. But yes we are only planning to mount Railguns on ships with nuclear reactors and they are going to have to tear some stuff out to fit the capacitors in there to store the energy. We are not going to see railguns on tanks anytime soon until we get a better storage medium, but we might see a train car version. But that's only if the greens don't freak out when we say we want to dust off some of the 50's era designs for a mobile nuclear reactor on a traincar bed.

swicked wrote:
Oh, and to those new to the Sombereros, any spoiler tags replying to Kim here should also be treated with caution.

Contains violence, foul language and sexual situations, not suitable for all audiences, viewer discretion is advised.

by Kattlarv Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:12 am

@Sindri: Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction to it, and their response. Really hate when people are all "No, I cba to do that/improve, I prefer to be lazy" and the like.
But yeah... those tropes seems awfully accurate. Like a friend of mine said: "Being stupid/ignorant would allow me to enjoy so much more in life. But then again, I'm not sure I'd want to be that stupid..." erf, anyhow. I was hoping and getting some work done today, but silly me, the times I actually have inspiration, I get kidnapped by friends. Arglebargle! I need a higher will save to charm and composure effects by friendly targets. And why does it have to bother me so much with inaccuracy or illogical stuff? And why are so many against it? [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 1751538862

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 1751538862

@Cpt: You quoted the wrong person :P

by SilentCarto Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:17 am

Cptadder wrote:There is a flaw in that the barrels have a shelf life of a carton of milk left on the counter because firing high speed chunks of metal results in wear and tear on the magnets and on the shielding.

That's service life, not shelf life. They can sit on the shelf as long as you want.

Cptadder wrote:Just because your a general does not mean you can order anyone of 0-6 and below around to fetch you coffee. Granted if your two levels below the person giving you the order you tend to hop by reflex, but if Dash kept the Shadowbolts her own personal military unit attached to the MoA she would not have to worry about taking orders from Generals. Keeping them MoA own personal wet work squad means she can station them wherever she is at the moment (They are Pegsi after all...wings) and if some General wants to use the elite unit Rainbow Dash personally leads instead of a line Pegasus Platoon he or she would have to pitch Rainbow Dash on the idea.

I don't care if the order had to go through thirteen levels of indirection first. If Dash were within the command structure, then her direct superior could order her to take her squadron and go do thus-and-such. And if the Shadowbolts were part of the Skyguard but Dash wasn't, then they would have a commanding officer that Dash would have to liase with; she couldn't order them to do something, she would have to ask him to order them to follow her into battle. I really don't think she would stand for that.

Cptadder wrote:I'm referring to Dash setting up Zecora, that was a MoA operation that went south.

O...kay? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

ketchup504 wrote:In other SCIENCE!!! stuff, they might have found the Higgs Bosen on Wednesday.
Link.

It's not exactly "found" on Wednesday. They've been making detections for months. They just have to stack up enough hits to push the chance that it's random noise down below 5 sigmas (less than one chance in 3.5 million that the detections were all random noise) before they can publish. As of a couple months ago, they were at the 4-sigma level (99.4% certainty).

That said, they now have a 5-sigma detection of "a 125 GeV particle". It has the right weight, but they haven't yet tested its spin, charge, or other qualities to make sure it really is the Higgs boson.

That said, there are no other particles expected in that weight range, so I'm not saying it's the Higgs, but it's the Higgs.

by Sindri Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:23 am

Cptadder wrote:Just in today's world big ships make no sense. But then in twenty years manned aircraft will make no sense once we mate a power enough laser with a good tracking system and a excellent radar. We have the radar already and the tracking system, it's just the laser we are waiting on.

Eh, we'll be able to make aircraft that are either nigh-invisible to radar or reflective enough to shrug off laser fire. We've already got fighters that have about as big a radar profile as a golf ball, and armor against lasers will depend less on thickness and more on surfacing so it should be easier to protect aircraft against them.

But that's only if the greens don't freak out when we say we want to dust off some of the 50's era designs for a mobile nuclear reactor on a traincar bed.

Bah. I really don't know how anybody can still be objecting to nuclear power. Currently about 70% of america is powered by coal. Almost anything would be a huge step up. If you look at the ratio of biproducts to energy produced, our current plants are putting out about a hundred times as much radioactive waste as equivalent fission plants would (not counting all the other horrible pollutants, just the radioactive ones). But instead of nice convenient chunks to be contained or disposed of, it's being spat right into the atmosphere as a fine powder.
Brilliant. Derpy Hooves

And that's before we even get into issues of price, reliability, cost in human health and lives to produce the energy in the first place...

@Kattlarv
Ah, the dangers of having friends.

by SilentCarto Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:25 am

Sindri wrote:Bah. I really don't know how anybody can still be objecting to nuclear power. Currently about 70% of america is powered by coal. Almost anything would be a huge step up. If you look at the ratio of biproducts to energy produced, our current plants are putting out about a hundred times as much radioactive waste as equivalent fission plants would (not counting all the other horrible pollutants, just the radioactive ones). But instead of nice convenient chunks to be contained or disposed of, it's being spat right into the atmosphere as a fine powder.

Brilliant.

Hear hear! Not to mention that every nuclear disaster to date has been using reactor technology developed in the decade after World War 2. The designs created in the meantime are self-regulating and stop themselves if anything goes wrong.

by FeatherDust Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:27 am

Mikas wrote:I've actually wondered why most of the fics I've read like to glaze over the war (the closest has been Somber's Marauders). We aren't really told about many battles, what happened to the soldiers, who was "winning", or even the names of many of the higher ups (I might be forgetting the EC-1101 list).

Well, apart from the "need real knowledge" part, this is part of the Fallout universe's feel. The sense that "the bombs fell, lots of people died, and nobody really cares what happened to make that happen".

by Theta Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:12 am

@Mikas

If everyone else is going to stop lurking, then I guess I'll stop lurking too.

by Scootayay Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:36 am

@Theta Welcome to the semi-lurker Sombereros /)

by Cptadder Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:36 am

Kattlarv wrote:

@Cpt: You quoted the wrong person :P

So I did, dang it

SilentCarto wrote:
Cptadder wrote:There is a flaw in that the barrels have a shelf life of a carton of milk left on the counter because firing high speed chunks of metal results in wear and tear on the magnets and on the shielding.
That's service life, not shelf life. They can sit on the shelf as long as you want.

Drat you are correct wrong terminology fail on my part.

SilentCarto wrote:
I don't care if the order had to go through thirteen levels of indirection first. If Dash were within the command structure, then her direct superior could order her to take her squadron and go do thus-and-such. And if the Shadowbolts were part of the Skyguard but Dash wasn't, then they would have a commanding officer that Dash would have to liase with; she couldn't order them to do something, she would have to ask him to order them to follow her into battle. I really don't think she would stand for that.

Again the CIA example comes up.

Yes Commander Dash of the Shadowbolts could be ordered by Brigadier General Example to do something but General Example could NOT order Ministry Mare Dash who is literally one step below Luna to do a damn thing. That's one possible explanation on how the Shadowbolts could be in the Skyguard and yet remain firmly in Dash's hooves to be loaned only on her say so.

The alternative explanation is that the Shadowbolts are Ministry of Awesomeness own personal paramilitary squad and this not answered to any military official.
There are three other alternative explanations, third is that Commander Dash is in fact is a General and thus has no one higher besides Luna to boss her around, fourth that Dash is a commander but there is either a direct or unspoken order from Luna to the Generals to not order Dash to do anything with her Shadowbolts. And Fifth is that Dash is a commander and no she does not mind the Generals placed over her.

A sixth possibility just occurred to me, the head of the Shadowbolts is not Dash at all but Luna with Dash as her XO but that's crazy... or is it!?

SilentCarto wrote:
Cptadder wrote:I'm referring to Dash setting up Zecora, that was a MoA operation that went south.
O...kay? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Linking back to the second explanation of Dash and the Shadowbolts, that Ministry Mare Dash holds the rank of in essence Director of the Equestrian Operations Department of Intelligence, unless she's a General herself any military rank would be lower than her Ministry rank one small step below Luna herself.

Sindri wrote:
Cptadder wrote:Just in today's world big ships make no sense. But then in twenty years manned aircraft will make no sense once we mate a power enough laser with a good tracking system and a excellent radar. We have the radar already and the tracking system, it's just the laser we are waiting on.
Eh, we'll be able to make aircraft that are either nigh-invisible to radar or reflective enough to shrug off laser fire. We've already got fighters that have about as big a radar profile as a golf ball, and armor against lasers will depend less on thickness and more on surfacing so it should be easier to protect aircraft against them.

Here is the dirty secret about radar cross sections, it's all bullshit. When they reference something having the cross section of X it's against a certain class of Radar which is not our top of the line stuff. Stealth bombers can be tracked and have been done so repeatably because the anti-radar coating and physical layout only gets you so far, and atmospheric. conditions can turn an invisible plane into a giant target. More everything radiates slightly, it's just a matter of throwing enough energy in the air to get a positive return. The exact technical details are all highly classified as all get out but a good knowledge of physics, a few test instruments buyable or buildable from catalogs and a ship kind enough to turn it's tracking radars on to full power (Which the Navy is forbidden from doing in site of shore because it tends to mess up lots of civilian stuff) can give you a good idea of exactly how powerful our top of the line stuff from the 80's is. The problem the stealth planes face is that all that radar absorbing material converts part of the received energy into heat, there are cooling systems in the skin for just that reason. But a fully powered tracking radar can quickly start causing blooms which show up on thermal imaging and once the operators know where to focus they can actually cook the skin off. People way over estimated stealth in the 70s and 80s which is why in the 90s most of those programs got cut way back as Russia and China just built more massive more powerful Radars that were far cheaper than the multi-billion dollar, millions to operate planes. There simply is a hard limit of material sciences and plane shapes that you can overcome with MOAR POWAR!

FeatherDust wrote:
Mikas wrote:I've actually wondered why most of the fics I've read like to glaze over the war (the closest has been Somber's Marauders). We aren't really told about many battles, what happened to the soldiers, who was "winning", or even the names of many of the higher ups (I might be forgetting the EC-1101 list).
Well, apart from the "need real knowledge" part, this is part of the Fallout universe's feel. The sense that "the bombs fell, lots of people died, and nobody really cares what happened to make that happen".

In essence yes, a FoE side story covering the war would be a war story not a Fallout story. Fallout is all about after the bombs fall not before.

by Rafafidi Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:40 am

Every new member that strengthens the Sombreros in this early stage is welcome!
How many followers are needed to a cult be able to envolve in a religion? And who is the responsable for the tour around Happyhorn? (this is our temple, right?)

by SilentCarto Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:53 am

Cptadder wrote:Linking back to the second explanation of Dash and the Shadowbolts, that Ministry Mare Dash holds the rank of in essence Director of the Equestrian Operations Department of Intelligence, unless she's a General herself any military rank would be lower than her Ministry rank one small step below Luna herself.

Well... the first half is true, but nobody said otherwise. You go wrong in the second half, though. Ministry Mare is not a military rank, it's a political position. Luna's the Commander-in-Chief, and the Ministry Mares are her advisors. So having Dash in the Skyguard would be like having a member of the Presidential Cabinet on active duty.

by Theta Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:10 am

SilentCarto wrote:
Well... the first half is true, but nobody said otherwise. You go wrong in the second half, though. Ministry Mare is not a military rank, it's a political position. Luna's the Commander-in-Chief, and the Ministry Mares are her advisors. So having Dash in the Skyguard would be like having a member of the Presidential Cabinet on active duty.

I don't think Dash had an official military rank besides Ministry Mare and Commander of the Shadowbolts. She could have probably given orders to the Generals, but she seemed to focus more on fighting individual battles. I remember it being said that Twilight and Rarity were the only ones who tried to run their ministries; the rest of them just threw ideas at their subordinates. It sounds like the Generals would have made commanded the military while Dash would only interfere if their orders ran against what she was trying to accomplish

by Meleagridis Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:14 am

Two new people all at once?

welcome:

Welcome, welcome, welcome, to Mikas and Theta! Vergil too, since I never said it when you got here. Sorry.
(Run.)

swicked wrote:Sombereros

(I couldn't find a gif, so a weird video instead)

god i love puns:

by Vergil Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:14 am

Cptadder wrote:
Sindri wrote:
Cptadder wrote:We won't be building battleships, battlecrusiers... or dreadnaughts anytime soon.
Sorry, should have said... warship is the generic? Yeah, there's still not much advantage to making a bigger ship than a heavy cruiser unless you can put aircraft on it, and the cost goes way up.
As a Navy guy it's one of this things that irks me (...because I wish we still were building the big boys) Warship is the correct term, Battleship is a class for a specific weight limit. To me it's like when the local news reporter mentions the bank was robbed today by two masked men with machine guns and then link to bank footage of one man holding a pistol and the other man very obviously armed with a pump action shotgun. There are no Battleships left in service anywhere and technically the Iowa's were only Battle cruisers (Only in this point just means they were Battleships that trade armor for extra speed).

Actually the Iowas were not battlecruisers at all, they were fast battleships. Battlecruisers were usually labeled as such for possessing both high speed and only a vital area armor protection scheme; the Iowas had a total protection scheme like true battleships but were still remarkably fast thanks to advancements in high pressure/temperature steam power plants in the late 1930s and early '40s.

Incidentally I'm currently writing my thesis on the subject of advancements in high steam in the US Navy and their impact on WWII.

by SilentCarto Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:31 am

Theta wrote:I remember it being said that Twilight and Rarity were the only ones who tried to run their ministries; the rest of them just threw ideas at their subordinates.

True, but that was said by someone who didn't know the MAw was running black ops. Still, I think she preferred to get in the fight personally and probably did leave the running of the Ministry in the hooves of her subordinates -- not generals, but her own directors, like those that ran the daily operations of the MoP and MoM.

Vergil wrote:Incidentally I'm currently writing my thesis on the subject of advancements in high steam in the US Navy and their impact on WWII.

I'm interested! Weren't all sides using similar technology at the time? I know the HMS Dreadnought sparked a revolution in battleship design, but that was just after the turn of the century. Did US ships have a significant speed advantage in WW2?

by 222222 Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:56 am

Do you think if a general could give Rainbow Dash an order they really would? I mean she is one of the six closest personal advisors to Luna who has complete power in the government. I don't think a general would risk their career over one wing of Pegasus, especially after Rainbow Dash proved to be so helpful on the war front regardless. Also, while officially the Ministry of Awesome did next to nothing, there where rumors of the black ops performed. High ranking people like say Applesnack or possibly a war general would probably be aware of the rumors, and treat rainbow dash accordingly, esoecially looking at what the MoM became.

by Vergil Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:11 am

SilentCarto wrote:
Vergil wrote:Incidentally I'm currently writing my thesis on the subject of advancements in high steam in the US Navy and their impact on WWII.
I'm interested! Weren't all sides using similar technology at the time? I know the HMS Dreadnought sparked a revolution in battleship design, but that was just after the turn of the century. Did US ships have a significant speed advantage in WW2?

The biggest issue with increasing steam pressures and temperatures isn't necessarily speed, but in developing more shaft horsepower using less fuel. The hotter and more pressurized the steam is, the more energy that can be retrieved from it using a single turbine. The 1300 ton Clemson class (produced 1919-22), which used steam at 300 psi and 400 degrees, produced 27,600 shp for a maximum speed of about 35 knots. The 1850 ton Somers class (produced 1935-39), which used steam at 600 psi and 850 degrees, produced 52,000 shp for a top speed of about 36 knots. The advantage this produced in range was greatest at cruising speeds of 15-20 knots, at which the Somers had a 20-25% lower fuel consumption rate than her predecessors.

Most of the major powers involved in the Second World War were on similar tracks where high steam is concerned, but each had taken the matter in its own direction by 1939. The Japanese did limited experimentation with higher pressures and temperatures in their destroyers mainly, but a lack of the proper alloys and shipyard capacity meant that changes for them never showed up in force. The Germans went WAY overboard (I believe they attempted to standardize 1000 degrees in their destroyers), which resulted in extremely powerful plants that were also extremely unreliable. The Brits, for their part, decided to sit back and see how the US did with its own experiments. The result of this was a direct comparison study of one of the first US battleships equipped with a high steam plant, USS Washington (BB-56), with a very similar contemporary British design, HMS King George V, which was equipped with traditional Parsons low pressure turbines. The Brits found that KGV burned 39% more fuel at low speeds and about 20% more at high speeds, meaning that Washington had double KGV's range at the low end of cruising speed and about 20% greater range at the high end. Incidentally, Washington also exceeded her own designed maximum speed of 26 knots by 2 knots.

Also, as far as Dreadnought is concerned, she sparked a revolution that Jacky Fisher never intended nor wanted. But that's another story altogether...

by Cptadder Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:21 am

SilentCarto wrote:
Cptadder wrote:Linking back to the second explanation of Dash and the Shadowbolts, that Ministry Mare Dash holds the rank of in essence Director of the Equestrian Operations Department of Intelligence, unless she's a General herself any military rank would be lower than her Ministry rank one small step below Luna herself.
Well... the first half is true, but nobody said otherwise. You go wrong in the second half, though. Ministry Mare is not a military rank, it's a political position. Luna's the Commander-in-Chief, and the Ministry Mares are her advisors. So having Dash in the Skyguard would be like having a member of the Presidential Cabinet on active duty.

Not outside the realm of possibility in certain countries as some countries do have the Chiefs of the military who are on activity duty on the Cabinet but then Equestrian government is an egalitarian monarchy run directly by a divine immortal avatar of the sun and the moon.

Some possibility for variance must be accounted for, but that line of logic is a two edged sword as it both goes for and against any argument made. We literally don't have any government types in our experience matching that.

Theta wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:
Well... the first half is true, but nobody said otherwise. You go wrong in the second half, though. Ministry Mare is not a military rank, it's a political position. Luna's the Commander-in-Chief, and the Ministry Mares are her advisors. So having Dash in the Skyguard would be like having a member of the Presidential Cabinet on active duty.
I don't think Dash had an official military rank besides Ministry Mare and Commander of the Shadowbolts. She could have probably given orders to the Generals, but she seemed to focus more on fighting individual battles. I remember it being said that Twilight and Rarity were the only ones who tried to run their ministries; the rest of them just threw ideas at their subordinates. It sounds like the Generals would have made commanded the military while Dash would only interfere if their orders ran against what she was trying to accomplish

Dash is a glory hound however and her Loyalty would demand that the Shadowbolts not head into battle without herself at their head. She did establish them after all.

Vergil wrote:[q

Actually the Iowas were not battlecruisers at all, they were fast battleships. Battlecruisers were usually labeled as such for possessing both high speed and only a vital area armor protection scheme; the Iowas had a total protection scheme like true battleships but were still remarkably fast thanks to advancements in high pressure/temperature steam power plants in the late 1930s and early '40s.

To be fair you are correct, my consideration of the Iowa's as Battlecruisers is a personal notation, they were in fact full Battleships even if their protection levels were much lower than equivalent British or Japanese Battleships. But then the term Battlecruiser is itself one rarely used because we had next to no ships built matching that idea of something as armed as a battleship with only some armoring so it could chase down smaller ships.

Erumpet wrote:Do you think if a general could give Rainbow Dash an order they really would? I mean she is one of the six closest personal advisors to Luna who has complete power in the government. I don't think a general would risk their career over one wing of Pegasus, especially after Rainbow Dash proved to be so helpful on the war front regardless. Also, while officially the Ministry of Awesome did next to nothing, there where rumors of the black ops performed. High ranking people like say Applesnack or possibly a war general would probably be aware of the rumors, and treat rainbow dash accordingly, esoecially looking at what the MoM became.

Any General would have to know exactly what the MoA real function is, you can't become a General without being in charge of, or involved with at least one bit of squirrely black bag, hundred year classified incident. Just the nature of the beast.

My personal preferred explanation which I'll state here is that Dash WAS Commander Dash, leader of the Shadowbolts and Ministry Mare Dash, head of the Ministry of Awesome in charge of paramilitary operations during the war and second or third to only Luna herself in prosecution of the war. While Applejack built, Fluttershy healed, Pinkie spied, Rarity managed and Twilight invented... Rainbow Dash fought.

by Kattlarv Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:47 am

@Sindri: Wouldn't say "danger" perhaps, but kinda accurate I guess heh.

@Theta: I was lurking before it was cool [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 3845856932

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 3845856932

(no idea why I said that, just felt like someone should.

@Cpt: See? I do more than cast Mass Confusion [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 2322646808

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 2322646808

@Rafa: To my knowledge, you need at least 50 unique followers that admit and/or follow your belief/philosophy. At least in Swe. Aren't anything other than the major cults illegal in USA or something?

@Everypony: On a side note, I got stung by a bee (I think they're called in Eng), it hit a vital area, but didn't confirm a critical hit. And after an awkward "let us never speak of this again" moment, I am kinda back to functional. Will possibly not be active for 1-2 days, will see how I'm feeling in a few hours.

by Vergil Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:54 am

Cptadder wrote:
Vergil wrote:
Actually the Iowas were not battlecruisers at all, they were fast battleships. Battlecruisers were usually labeled as such for possessing both high speed and only a vital area armor protection scheme; the Iowas had a total protection scheme like true battleships but were still remarkably fast thanks to advancements in high pressure/temperature steam power plants in the late 1930s and early '40s.
To be fair you are correct, my consideration of the Iowa's as Battlecruisers is a personal notation, they were in fact full Battleships even if their protection levels were much lower than equivalent British or Japanese Battleships. But then the term Battlecruiser is itself one rarely used because we had next to no ships built matching that idea of something as armed as a battleship with only some armoring so it could chase down smaller ships.

Fair enough. Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the WWII-era Alaska class large cruisers and modern Kirov class guided missile cruisers? Would you consider either of those a battlecruiser as well?

by Cptadder Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:55 am

Kattlarv wrote:

@Rafa: To my knowledge, you need at least 50 unique followers that admit and/or follow your belief/philosophy. At least in Swe. Aren't anything other than the major cults illegal in USA or something?

See my signature, there is no bar to entry to claim a religion in the US, however if you want the benefits of being a recognized religion with stuff like tax exempt status you have to jump through lots of hoops to achieve that status and they are not easy bars to pass because the flip side is once you do achieve that status it's next to impossible to strip you of it.

Vergil wrote:
Fair enough. Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the WWII-era Alaska class large cruisers and modern Kirov class guided missile cruisers? Would you consider either of those a battlecruiser as well?

I am with the Alaska's which I consider close to battlecruiser status except the gun armament was on the light side (Triple turrets are just a bad idea in general) and the Kirov is simply to modern to really fall into that classification system as by the end of 1944 that you could simply not armor a Battleship enough to let it laugh off attacks due to torpedoes which is part of the old Battleship and Ship of the Line Designations is of a ship that can stand firm and shrug off enemy fire of anything that comes into range... or at least that's the idea.

by Meleagridis Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:58 am

Kattlarv wrote: Will possibly not be active for 1-2 days, will see how I'm feeling in a few hours.

Are you allergic to bee stings?

SilentCarto wrote:
Theta wrote:I remember it being said that Twilight and Rarity were the only ones who tried to run their ministries; the rest of them just threw ideas at their subordinates.
True, but that was said by someone who didn't know the MAw was running black ops. Still, I think she preferred to get in the fight personally and probably did leave the running of the Ministry in the hooves of her subordinates -- not generals, but her own directors, like those that ran the daily operations of the MoP and MoM.

Don't suppose you're thinking of any particular individuals named after gemstones?

by SilentCarto Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:04 pm

Vergil wrote:Most of the major powers involved in the Second World War were on similar tracks where high steam is concerned, but each had taken the matter in its own direction by 1939. The Japanese did limited experimentation with higher pressures and temperatures in their destroyers mainly, but a lack of the proper alloys and shipyard capacity meant that changes for them never showed up in force.

Ahh, so your point is that the Japanese had a thirstier fleet which necessitated more logistical support, which was thus more expensive to maintain and more vulnerable to submarine raids?

Vergil wrote:Fair enough. Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the WWII-era Alaska class large cruisers and modern Kirov class guided missile cruisers? Would you consider either of those a battlecruiser as well?

I don't consider the Kirov a battlecruiser, because it doesn't mount battleship-class guns. Guided missile cruisers have indeed taken over the niche, but they don't have the "battleship" functionality. I mean, is an aircraft carrier a "battlecruiser", just based on its size?

The Alaska-class cruisers, all two of them, were technically classed as "Large Cruisers", but their designation was CB, and I'll let you work out what that stands for. Referring to them as Battlecruisers was "officially discouraged", so I think they were in all but name. The USS Alaska's keel was laid mere months after the Hood's abysmal showing at the Denmark Strait*, so the term "battlecruiser" was probably considered to have a stigma at the time.

*The battlecruiser is supposed to be able to "run from anything it can't fight". That means you don't use it to go hunting battleships. Derpy Hooves

by Mikas Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:31 pm

Cptadder wrote:
FeatherDust wrote:
Mikas wrote:I've actually wondered why most of the fics I've read like to glaze over the war (the closest has been Somber's Marauders). We aren't really told about many battles, what happened to the soldiers, who was "winning", or even the names of many of the higher ups (I might be forgetting the EC-1101 list).
Well, apart from the "need real knowledge" part, this is part of the Fallout universe's feel. The sense that "the bombs fell, lots of people died, and nobody really cares what happened to make that happen".

In essence yes, a FoE side story covering the war would be a war story not a Fallout story. Fallout is all about after the bombs fall not before.

I'm either really dense or just not accurately clarifying my thoughts.

From playing Fallout games you more or less receive hints and small stories about the past and the Great War but end up being more concerned about the events in the world around you.

Fallout: Equestria and Project Horizons (mostly because a story format is linear and thus can be fleshed out) use memory orbs and recordings to show the events that led up to the Apocalypse and the effects that they hold on the present day wasteland. They are still stories of survival and horror in the present day but allow for more background exposition than you would expect in an open world RPG.

Due to the fact that the events take place within Equestrian borders (and with the war being fought primarily in Zebra lands) this background knowledge from pre-Apocalypse Equestria is mostly centered on the Government (Minstries, OIA) and Civilian Life.

What I'm saying is that if I ever write a Fallout: Equestria sidefic the focus of the memory orbs and recordings would deal mostly with filling in the gaps of knowledge. Things like major events of the Great War, the effects of the Ministries (primarily MoP, MWT, and MAw), important figures in the military command structure/hierarchy (the figureheads, the string pullers), and what the soldiers lived through (they went from peaceful nation of 1000+ years to having a massive army committed to total war).

Plus I find that the amount of atrocities ascribable to Rainbow Dash and Applejack to be lacking in both detail and impact. What I recall is that RD killed hundreds if not thousands and performed/approved black-ops (maybe it's just me being naive/desensitized but I don't find the same level of horror as Fluttershy/Pinkie Pie messing with memories or Rarity with her Soul experiments) while AJ made weapons and technology which killed thousands (and (indirectly) made technologies such as the terminal and PipBucks and created the Steel Rangers which have been all over the sliding scale of did good and did worse).

I guess my issue with it is that I haven't been given a good enough grasp of just what the MAw and the MWT have done (probably because I am inexperienced and naive/idealistic). The worst thing that Applejack ever did was not control her underlings and the worst that we've seen/know of Rainbow Dash was that she was a damn good soldier.

I don't know if I can explain my thoughts anymore than this. If I'm still not getting it then I'm sorry for that and for the really long (and most likely rambling) post. My mind has a habit of going faster than I can type/speak resulting in there being less explanation given as to why certain points are given, missing words/letters/punctuation, and the appearance of jumping topics with no traceable line of thought (there usually is one I just can't keep up with it).

[EDIT]Yay my having been inspired by the others who have stopped lurking (special note goes to Captain Adder who is a machine ot have read all those comments/posts) to stop lurking has inspired other lurkers who were lurking to cease their lurkish behavior for the short time between lurks.
I may have also just not Englished correctly there.

by Vergil Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:52 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
Vergil wrote:Most of the major powers involved in the Second World War were on similar tracks where high steam is concerned, but each had taken the matter in its own direction by 1939. The Japanese did limited experimentation with higher pressures and temperatures in their destroyers mainly, but a lack of the proper alloys and shipyard capacity meant that changes for them never showed up in force.
Ahh, so your point is that the Japanese had a thirstier fleet which necessitated more logistical support, which was thus more expensive to maintain and more vulnerable to submarine raids?

Assuming you're talking about my thesis...actually not at all, that's just a little bit of excess knowledge I picked up on the subject while doing research. My argument is that although the adoption of high steam came with serious benefits for the US Navy, history appears to have utterly forgotten the fact that it also completely wrecked the US's wartime naval building program and caused severe shortages of both ships and spare parts until 1944. The problem was so acute that in April 1943 alone there were 60 destroyers that had been completed but lacked power plants, a number of which ultimately waited six months before they finally received one.

SilentCarto wrote:*The battlecruiser is supposed to be able to "run from anything it can't fight". That means you don't use it to go hunting battleships.

Apparently the Brits didn't get the memo after Jutland like they thought they did.

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