[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Jeremyrush wrote:This is how I feel reading this thread.

Oh we are not that bad.

I hope.

Jeremyrush wrote:This is how I feel reading this thread.

Hi!

SilentCarto wrote:

Vergil wrote:The Alaskas, from what I recall,
were simply an attempt to "one-up" everyone else on cruiser size and
armament. In that they had a role somewhat similar to what a
battlecruiser is supposed to do, but a totally different theory behind
their design. Hence the designation of "CB" mister SilentCarto!

I
admit they were light in the gun department, but I feel that the design
purpose -- a fast cruiser-killer -- is what defines the battlecruiser.
But I think this is a bit of an "is it porn?" argument -- the term
"battlecruiser" isn't well-defined, so an edge case like this is
similarly ambiguous.

P.S. My point about "CB" was that it seems
to suggest "Cruiser, Battle" when compared to CA for "Armored (Heavy)
Cruiser" and CL for "Light Cruiser". I know the Lexington-class
battlecruisers were designated CC before they were redesigned as
carriers, but again, outright calling them "battlecruisers" was probably
considered politically unwise at the time. Granted, since CL was
already taken, it might also be read as "Cruiser, Big".

At this point in history, you are right about the "battlecruiser" being a nebulous concept. As originally conceived, their purpose - power projection - has been usurped by naval aviation and nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines. All that truly leaves is a fast, light-ish armored craft packed with the most powerful weapons suite available, and that description can fit a LOT of different things.

Through everything I've read, I've come to read CB as "Cruiser, Big" as unpleasantly simplistic as it may sound (because we know all military types like sophisticated sounding adjectives, not basic ones). I think you are correct about CC for the Lexington class being a political decision though, particularly as (if I recall correctly) they were initially authorized after Jutland, and nobody liked the idea of the battlecruiser after Jutland.

SilentCarto wrote:Aw... Remote hugs for Somber.

I second this.

iLateralGX wrote:

Jeremyrush wrote:This is how I feel reading this thread.

Oh we are not that bad.

I hope.

Gasp!

Wait we aren't supposed to be?
...

/slides mysterious wooden crate back out of sight

OAN: I just found this while rereading PH:

“I
heard that Princess Celestia sent the whole city to the moon right
before the bombs went kablewy,” offered a gray unicorn filly.

After reading MSN and finding all the (now) obvious hints that Somber has been leaving this cannot be a coincidence (that and I never underestimate the precognitive foreshadowing of children).

Mikas wrote:

iLateralGX wrote:

Jeremyrush wrote:This is how I feel reading this thread.

Oh we are not that bad.

I hope.

Gasp!

Wait we aren't supposed to be?
...

/slides mysterious wooden crate back out of sight

OAN: I just found this while rereading PH:

“I
heard that Princess Celestia sent the whole city to the moon right
before the bombs went kablewy,” offered a gray unicorn filly.

After reading MSN and finding all the (now) obvious hints that Somber has been leaving this cannot be a coincidence (that and I never underestimate the precognitive foreshadowing of children).

For some reason I always knew PH would strive to go where no pony has gone before. Which is not really an accurate statement but still, my point stands! I always knew Blackjack would be spacebound/moonbound pony.

Ponies.... in..... SPAAAACEEEE
But yeah we might end up on the moon, in memory at the very least

RE: Warship designations.
A few examples in English-speaking navies.
Frigates are FF, destroyers are DD, light cruisers are CL, and heavy are CA.
BB is battleship, CV is usually carrier. Corvettes are PG.
Correlation? Sometimes none. They don't seem to care too much.

You know how everyone was wondering who that Teal pony was in the Star Dream/Afterlife? I think I know who it is.

It's Scoodle.

Here's a quote:
Unfortunately,
I was now out of ammo. This would normally be the point where I would
die and P-21 would take over and probably do the Wasteland a lot more
good. There was just one catch: I wasn’t done paying for a little teal
pony.

And Scoodle being introduced:
I
looked at the teal one, who, aside from looking very sore under her
tail, seemed the oldest and most composed. “So, what’s your name, how
did you get here… and how loudly do I have to whine before you share
some of that with me?” I said as I pointed at a box of dried apple
shavings in her hooves.

She
blinked, then grudgingly parted with half the box. I was a little
skeptical till the first bite, and then my eyes went wide. I’d never
tasted anything so sweet and tasty in my life. My PipBuck’s little
radiation clicks went unnoticed as I chowed down. Sugar Apple Bombs
leaped right to the top of my favorites list!

“As for my name, I’m Scoodle. Them raiders grabbed us while we was out lookin’ fer stuff fer the Finders.”

Sorry if we already figured this out.

I think I found a typo or something
P-21
sighed. “First, that this ‘Sanguine’ was probably watching the stable
before U-21 left it. You know how dangerous this place is. A lone
stable unicorn wouldn’t have lasted long. Two, Sanguine has some links
to Stable-Tec; the Overmare confirmed that with his codes. Third, he
clearly had a grasp of the Overmare’s psychology. I suspect we’re
looking for somepony who’s spent time in a stable themselves. Fourth,
he’s got established contacts with Reapers and raiders. Deus might have
been brutal, but he also showed restraint rather than charging through
and killing everything.”

Bolded for emphasis. I think that was supposed to be "Second" since the transition from "two" to "third" is kinda jarring.

This is off the Googledoc linked from the PH Hub.

Sorry for the Double Post.

I thought it was Scoodle. Besides, what other teal ponies have been negatively effected by Blackjack?

Mikas wrote:I think I found a typo or something
P-21
sighed. “First, that this ‘Sanguine’ was probably watching the stable
before U-21 left it. You know how dangerous this place is. A lone
stable unicorn wouldn’t have lasted long. Two, Sanguine has some links
to Stable-Tec; the Overmare confirmed that with his codes. Third, he
clearly had a grasp of the Overmare’s psychology. I suspect we’re
looking for somepony who’s spent time in a stable themselves. Fourth,
he’s got established contacts with Reapers and raiders. Deus might have
been brutal, but he also showed restraint rather than charging through
and killing everything.”

Bolded for emphasis. I think that was supposed to be "Second" since the transition from "two" to "third" is kinda jarring.

This is off the Googledoc linked from the PH Hub.

Sorry for the Double Post.

Ah, thank you. However, to make our jobs easier, please in the future attach the chapter number to any spotted errors.

ketchup504 wrote:I thought it was Scoodle. Besides, what other teal ponies have been negatively effected by Blackjack?

I am pretty sure Blackjack has killed a pony every color of the rainbow, and then some.

But Scoodle seems the likely candidate for this, that is what I assumed when I read it for the first time as well.

O. Hinds wrote:

Mikas wrote:My really huge post

Ah, thank you. However, to make our jobs easier, please in the future attach the chapter number to any spotted errors.

No problem and I'll make sure to do that.


Scoodle: I believe the confusion came about because the dream was listing off the colors of the Main Six (Gin Rummy got confused with Twilight initially) so Teal was assumed to be Rainbow Dash until SilentCarto (I think) pointed out that Teal =/= Cyan.

Loving the reread of PH. I'm enjoying it all over again almost like it's a new story since it's been so long since I read these parts and yet I know what's going to happen and what to look for (and since I already know what and where to look that leaves more time to look for other things like that TO THE MOON throwaway). Somehow it's more enjoyable than rereading the original Fallout: Equestria (and I have no concrete idea why).

Mikas wrote:OAN: I just found this while rereading PH:
“I
heard that Princess Celestia sent the whole city to the moon right
before the bombs went kablewy,” offered a gray unicorn filly.

After reading MSN and finding all the (now) obvious hints that Somber has been leaving this cannot be a coincidence (that and I never underestimate the precognitive foreshadowing of children).

*GAAAAAASP!* More support for Moonbase Redoubt! Nice catch.


I had a bit of fridge logic earlier today. Why would the Celestia be armed with Balefire shells? Equestria used direct-cast megaspells, not bombs.
Rationalization: They did have balefire eggs mounted around Discord. Perhaps a casting chamber requires some degree of stability not available in a ship, or they were unwilling to dedicate a megaspell team to an isolated, seagoing platform.

ketchup504 wrote:RE: Warship designations.
A few examples in English-speaking navies.
Frigates are FF, destroyers are DD, light cruisers are CL, and heavy are CA.
BB is battleship, CV is usually carrier. Corvettes are PG.
Correlation? Sometimes none. They don't seem to care too much.

Some of the terms have changed over the years, but they still make sense if you go back a ways.
PG = Patrol Gunboat
CV = Carrier, aViation
CA = Cruiser, Armored (As opposed to light cruisers, which were built of the same materials as a destroyer and couldn't fend off much more than a .50 cal bullet... if that.)

Mikas wrote:You know how everyone was wondering who that Teal pony was in the Star Dream/Afterlife? I think I know who it is.
It's Scoodle.

Ahah! Very perceptive! Thank you.

You know what I'm just going make a compilation post for all the errors I think I find in a chapter. This is for Chapter 4. Bolded for emphasis.

There knot of raiders seemed to be concentrated in the dining area.
Should probably be "The" or the sentence should be rephrased.

[Long gap of time reading and not finding/noticing any errors]

....Aaaaaaaand I can't find any others in this chapter. Good job Somber and editorial team! Loving this story all over again (helps that now I can talk about it with people).

I can't help but feel that I'm wasting posts with this but hey it's something to do/contribute.

Mikas wrote:

What I'm saying is that if I ever write a Fallout: Equestria sidefic the focus of the memory orbs and recordings would deal mostly with filling in the gaps of knowledge. Things like major events of the Great War, the effects of the Ministries (primarily MoP, MWT, and MAw), important figures in the military command structure/hierarchy (the figureheads, the string pullers), and what the soldiers lived through (they went from peaceful nation of 1000+ years to having a massive army committed to total war).

Interesting, this flows with my own idea if I ever took the fanfic plunge again.

Mikas wrote:

Plus I find that the amount of atrocities ascribable to Rainbow Dash and Applejack to be lacking in both detail and impact. What I recall is that RD killed hundreds if not thousands and performed/approved black-ops (maybe it's just me being naive/desensitized but I don't find the same level of horror as Fluttershy/Pinkie Pie messing with memories or Rarity with her Soul experiments) while AJ made weapons and technology which killed thousands (and (indirectly) made technologies such as the terminal and PipBucks and created the Steel Rangers which have been all over the sliding scale of did good and did worse).

I don't think we can ascribe a single atrocity to Applejack as her MWT was an R&D department and unless we hear how donkeys were used to test the effects of weapons I can not think of a single situation in which Applejack could have any atrocity placed at her feet considering Zebratown, the one possible thing Applejack could have been guilty of was using slave or prisoner labor like our good friends the Nazis as some industrialist were convicted of accepting slave labors to work in their factories which they payed for after the war. However I can't see Applejack standing for that not to mention how horrible a security risk such laborers represent.

Rainbow Dash on the other hand was a soldier and there's all sorts of ways soldiers can get up to atrocities but I don't see her sending Shadowbolts to blow up Zebra hospitals, executing PoW's or using human... zebra foals as shields on Shadowbolt Raptors.

And Pipbucks was Applebloom and Stabletech's work. We might joke about Horse in Hooftington but it's clear the real Pony Stark was Applebloom considering the number of inventions she cranked out for her own company.

As for the other ponies...

Pinkie is guilty of SOMETHING, no way you keep your hooves that dirty without crossing a line sooner or later, and memory modification is a pretty horrific thing in my mind
Twilight is innocent unless she had some unwilling zebra test subjects along the way
Rarity is however guilty of at least half dozen war crimes by my count, she would swing in an instant if we could bring charges.
Fluttershy herself is clean as fresh driven Snow but she could be charged on behalf of what pones did inside her ministry. Not that you could get a conviction in a thousand years.

Spoiler:

Go ahead try and find a Jury to convict her of anything I dare you.

Quotidian wrote:
Yeah, now that I'm out of class for a while, and I need something to occupy my time, I think I'll try to get back to writing regularly. And now I know where to start.

And yes, Drifter's a bit of a prick. I wanted to write an "evil" (Read: negative karma) character who was genuinely interesting and sympathetic instead of "lol I kick puppies derp". Where better to go than the Enclave for your morally conflicted, arrogant jerkwad? And besides, I think it's about time the FoE-verse had a straight male pegasus protagonist. Damn unicorns, prancing about like they own the place, murdering goddesses and fillyfooling and whatnot!

drop a link to it when it's posted on FiMfiction/another chapter is finished, because FiMfiction's search function is extremely specific/messed up (I swear it pays attention to capitalization), not to mention there's no agreed on way to title a FO:E fic, I've seen FoE:, Fallout Equestria:, Fallout Equestria -, Fallout: Equestria...yeah we need a standardized way of titling these things

I consider the Enclave to be like the Nazi's, the leadership might be pretty evil, but the ordinary citizens/soldiers are just racist/seem superior because of their upbringing and what they've been told by the leadership, plus it's not helped by the fact they have an actual society, instead of whatever the wasteland is

um, not to rain on your parade, but there have been a few straight male pegasi FO:E protagonists, most notably Kipper's Crimson Wings, but since you wrote this a year ago, there might not have been any at that time, so feel free to keep on parading

I see you've fallen into the groove of the two person/pony beginning party, you've got your good at lock-picking and hacking (bonus points for sneaking as well) one, and the one who's good at shooting, though this could quickly go down to a one person/pony party if sparrow gets killed (which I'm not betting against)


randomness of the [insert length of time here]: apparently Cerberus got his own fic: FoE: The Gates of Hell, I haven't read it so I can't judge on quality, and I'm too lazy to check back to see if this already got posted here

@ponies in space
In space, no one can hear you squee
@Somber
I really hope things can take a turn for the better, and remember if you are ever confused, depressed, angry, or whatever that everyone on this forum loves you and owes you so much so please feel free to ask for advice, appreciation, acceptance, sympathy, love, or any other type of support. I doubt you will because that doesn't seem to be your personality type, but if you ever feel the need to talk about it please do, we don't judge.

Cptadder wrote:

Plus I find that the amount of atrocities
ascribable to Rainbow Dash and Applejack to be lacking in both detail
and impact. What I recall is that RD killed hundreds if not thousands
and performed/approved black-ops (maybe it's just me being
naive/desensitized but I don't find the same level of horror as
Fluttershy/Pinkie Pie messing with memories or Rarity with her Soul
experiments) while AJ made weapons and technology which killed thousands
(and (indirectly) made technologies such as the terminal and PipBucks
and created the Steel Rangers which have been all over the sliding scale
of did good and did worse).
I don't think we can ascribe a
single atrocity to Applejack as her MWT was an R&D department and
unless we hear how donkeys were used to test the effects of weapons I
can not think of a single situation in which Applejack could have any
atrocity placed at her feet considering Zebratown, the one possible
thing Applejack could have been guilty of was using slave or prisoner
labor like our good friends the Nazis as some industrialist were
convicted of accepting slave labors to work in their factories which
they payed for after the war. However I can't see Applejack standing
for that not to mention how horrible a security risk such laborers
represent.

Rainbow Dash on the other hand was a soldier and
there's all sorts of ways soldiers can get up to atrocities but I don't
see her sending Shadowbolts to blow up Zebra hospitals, executing PoW's
or using human... zebra foals as shields on Shadowbolt Raptors.

And
Pipbucks was Applebloom and Stabletech's work. We might joke about
Horse in Hooftington but it's clear the real Pony Stark was Applebloom
considering the number of inventions she cranked out for her own
company.

As for the other ponies...

Pinkie is guilty of
SOMETHING, no way you keep your hooves that dirty without crossing a
line sooner or later, and memory modification is a pretty horrific thing
in my mind
Twilight is innocent unless she had some unwilling zebra test subjects along the way
Rarity
is however guilty of at least half dozen war crimes by my count, she
would swing in an instant if we could bring charges.
Fluttershy
herself is clean as fresh driven Snow but she could be charged on behalf
of what pones did inside her ministry. Not that you could get a
conviction in a thousand years.

Go ahead try and find a Jury to convict her of anything I dare you.

Pretty sure none of the Mane Six meant to do anything wrong, but:
1) For AJ, she's 'spossed to keep an eye on all the subsidiaries of her ministry. She herself might not had done wrong, but her trying to get the companies clean came a little too late, as seen with the elevator "accident".
2) There's too little information on RD for me to say anything on her verdict, but she did like the idea of "cheating" by ruining supplies. Don't know how far that goes though.
3) Pinkie was using Zebra drugs ala Party-Time Mintals, which I recall was banned. She also had some dubious dealings with characters such as Razorwire, but I don't think the darker side of her ministry listened to her, more like heeded what she said and listened to the OIA liason.
4) Twilight's life kind of messed up. We know she was having a kid (Tarrot?), and had to have another mare surrogate, with a possible mind wipe. Then she makes Gardens of Equestria and has that mind-wiped, then she went as a last effort both on bypass spells and the Alicorn Potion, which probably had a ton of test subjects that she didn't know about. She was responsible for kicking the Diamond Dogs out of their homes though, that much I blame her for.
5) Rarity also dealt more closely with the darker side of her ministry, but with the best intentions. Not too much to say except she's doing what she could. Heck, I'm impressed she didn't get corrupted by the book, but instead made the figurines.
6) Fluttershy also was trying to do what's best. Sure she wanted to givethe megaspells over, but look what the zebras did anyways. She's also responsible for the Fluttershy Medical Clinic foals and what happened to them, i.e. should have tested further. I'm also pretty sure Fluttershy's responsible for Memory Manipulation and not Pinkie.

As Dealer stated, they're all responsible for what happened back then.
Also, the often used, "Road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
5) Rarity also dealt more closely with the darker side of her ministry, but with the best intentions. Not too much to say except she's doing what she could. Heck, I'm impressed she didn't get corrupted by the book, but instead made the figurines.
6) Fluttershy also was trying to do what's best. Sure she wanted to givethe megaspells over, but look what the zebras did anyways. She's also responsible for the Fluttershy Medical Clinic foals and what happened to them, i.e. should have tested further. I'm also pretty sure Fluttershy's responsible for Memory Manipulation and not Pinkie.

Fluttershy left a note for Redheart that said "Please don’t ask about that procedure again, RH. We’ve only had one success. I won’t risk any more babies. I can’t. I’m sorry. F" Redheart was actually the one responsible for the Fluttershy Medical Center foals

SilentCarto wrote:*GAAAAAASP!* More support for Moonbase Redoubt! Nice catch.

Or that's what Horizons is.

Here's the thing. I keep asking myself what project could so horrify Luna that she would order Goldie's death. She doesn't seem to have had that reaction to any of the other horrific body- and soul- destroying projects. What could be so bad that it's worse than Eternity or Chimera?

And this got me thinking. What IS worse than those? Nothing -- if you're us. But if you're Luna there is something personal -- banished to the moon.

A moon colony is hard. You have to produce air, water, food, everything a stable needs, plus a way to get back home afterward. But what if they were all in stasis up there? What if Project Horizons took a whole city full of ponies and didn't just transport them TO the moon, but actually sealed them there the way Nightmare Moon was imprisoned?

I think that'd be enough to make Luna go right over the edge.

SilentCarto wrote:

ketchup504 wrote:RE: Warship designations.
A few examples in English-speaking navies.
Frigates are FF, destroyers are DD, light cruisers are CL, and heavy are CA.
BB is battleship, CV is usually carrier. Corvettes are PG.
Correlation? Sometimes none. They don't seem to care too much.

Some of the terms have changed over the years, but they still make sense if you go back a ways.
PG = Patrol Gunboat
CV = Carrier, aViation
CA = Cruiser, Armored (As opposed to light cruisers, which were built of the same materials as a destroyer and couldn't fend off much more than a .50 cal bullet... if that.)

I knew CA and PG, but I didn't get the V in CV. And why there are two letters for DD, FF and BB I don't know. Probably for conformity with CL and CA.

If you want to read about interesting naval armor choices, look up plastic armor. Not really what it sounds like.

ketchup504 wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:

ketchup504 wrote:RE: Warship designations.
A few examples in English-speaking navies.
Frigates are FF, destroyers are DD, light cruisers are CL, and heavy are CA.
BB is battleship, CV is usually carrier. Corvettes are PG.
Correlation? Sometimes none. They don't seem to care too much.

Some of the terms have changed over the years, but they still make sense if you go back a ways.
PG = Patrol Gunboat
CV = Carrier, aViation
CA = Cruiser, Armored (As opposed to light cruisers, which were built of the same materials as a destroyer and couldn't fend off much more than a .50 cal bullet... if that.)

I knew CA and PG, but I didn't get the V in CV. And why there are two letters for DD, FF and BB I don't know. Probably for conformity with CL and CA.

If you want to read about interesting naval armor choices, look up plastic armor. Not really what it sounds like.

Like everything pertaining to the US Armed Forces, when the naming system got ridiculous it was standardized. In the case of the Navy, all ship classes were given a two or three letter representation in 1920.

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/index_ships_list.htm

I have been waiting for this. Prepare for Wall'O'Text on top of the super quotes (that and it's gonna take me close to an hour to actually post this since I saw the message. Hell I bet myself $100 that's the case).

Cptadder wrote:

Mikas wrote:

What I'm saying is that if I ever write a Fallout: Equestria sidefic the focus of the memory orbs and recordings would deal mostly with filling in the gaps of knowledge. Things like major events of the Great War, the effects of the Ministries (primarily MoP, MWT, and MAw), important figures in the military command structure/hierarchy (the figureheads, the string pullers), and what the soldiers lived through (they went from peaceful nation of 1000+ years to having a massive army committed to total war).

Interesting, this flows with my own idea if I ever took the fanfic plunge again.

Yay! The military pony agrees! (This was my biggest worry since there was just a good of a chance that you would say that all of that was wrong).

Also the "again" implies that there was a previous fanfic plunge. May we see it?

Cptadder wrote:

Mikas wrote:

Plus I find that the amount of atrocities ascribable to Rainbow Dash and Applejack to be lacking in both detail and impact. What I recall is that RD killed hundreds if not thousands and performed/approved black-ops (maybe it's just me being naive/desensitized but I don't find the same level of horror as Fluttershy/Pinkie Pie messing with memories or Rarity with her Soul experiments) while AJ made weapons and technology which killed thousands (and (indirectly) made technologies such as the terminal and PipBucks and created the Steel Rangers which have been all over the sliding scale of did good and did worse).

I don't think we can ascribe a single atrocity to Applejack as her MWT was an R&D department and unless we hear how donkeys were used to test the effects of weapons I can not think of a single situation in which Applejack could have any atrocity placed at her feet considering Zebratown, the one possible thing Applejack could have been guilty of was using slave or prisoner labor like our good friends the Nazis as some industrialist were convicted of accepting slave labors to work in their factories which they payed for after the war. However I can't see Applejack standing for that not to mention how horrible a security risk such laborers represent.

Precisely my point. Applejack managed to effectively wash her hooves of everything but Negligence and the creation of mass war materiel (which isn't much of a war crime). The worst I could really depict of her are the effects of what her weapons had on the war (and its escalation. I have some weird need to demonize her (probably because most of her friends got demonized) which is probably to show that Honesty is not unbreakable or something.

Cptadder wrote:Rainbow Dash on the other hand was a soldier and there's all sorts of ways soldiers can get up to atrocities but I don't see her sending Shadowbolts to blow up Zebra hospitals, executing PoW's or using human... zebra foals as shields on Shadowbolt Raptors.

I could see her organizing rebellion/government destabilization and disrupting foreign relations between the zebras and the dragons/griffins. Maybe make her a practical terrorist willing to exploit any vulnerabilities in her enemy through whatever means necessary (and she has a whole ministry to back her up and no one really suspects her due to her PR). Loyalty is one of most easily exploited virtues and just from Fallout: Equestria we see that she's just as dedicated towards winning the war as Twilight (though not as organized).

Cptadder wrote:And Pipbucks was Applebloom and Stabletech's work. We might joke about Horse in Hooftington but it's clear the real Pony Stark was Applebloom considering the number of inventions she cranked out for her own company.

Stable-Tec is a subsidiary of the MWT like Four Stars, Robronco, and Ironshod. Thus AJ was responsible for Applebloom's work indirectly. But yes, Applebloom is confirmed for Pony Stark (maybe less weapon tech though).

Cptadder wrote:As for the other ponies...

Pinkie is guilty of SOMETHING, no way you keep your hooves that dirty without crossing a line sooner or later, and memory modification is a pretty horrific thing in my mind

Agreed.

Cptadder wrote:Twilight is innocent unless she had some unwilling zebra test subjects along the way.

Twilight is mostly guilty for IMP (Alicorns) and the abundance of Magical Weapons Tech (she was responsible (at least partly) for Equestria's weaponization of the Megaspell). Project Horizons freed her from being the creator of Taint (since that was produced and spread as part of Hippocratic and Project Chimaera) but (to me) she crossed back over that line when she left Discord and did not shut down Project Chimaera even though Flux was proven dangerous.

Cptadder wrote:Rarity is however guilty of at least half dozen war crimes by my count, she would swing in an instant if we could bring charges.

Agreed once more.

Cptadder wrote:Fluttershy herself is clean as fresh driven Snow but she could be charged on behalf of what pones did inside her ministry. Not that you could get a conviction in a thousand years.

She made many things such as cybernetics (Steelpony) and Megaspells that were then weaponized against her wishes. She had good intentions but was too naive (CARE).

Yet she endorsed the fusion megaspell being used on Stonewing. [REDACTED]. She approved memory manipulation on ponies (and, like OneMoreDaySK pointed out, probably let Pinkie run away with that). Let's not forget she protected criminals such as The Angel of Death from the Law by trying to "fix" them and then letting them back out.

Oh and she gave the Megaspell to the zebras.

At best she can claim Negligence. At worst she is one of the worst traitors to Equestria (Rainbow Dash put it nicely).

Cptadder wrote:

Spoiler:

Go ahead try and find a Jury to convict her of anything I dare you.

At that stage of adorableness she would be charged with pony slaughter due to all the DIABEETUS induced heart attacks.

Icy Shake wrote:
So, that's partly because of the
Ministries, they are the ones that did the best job of wearing white
hats. Going from the Sparkle~Cola memory orb in FoE chapter 17, neither
MWT/Applejack nor MoA/Rainbow Dash had really done anything that wrong
in the execution of their duties. At least, this is the belief held by
the CMCs not long before the megaspells fell. And they would know if
something shady happened under AJ's watch; they had close ties to her
(obviously) and worked closely with MWT.

And this is why I'm rereading Fallout: Equestria again. So that I can get my facts straight. Also yeah Applejack is still unassailable as of current information due to her Absolute Defense of Negligence (Honesty manages to stay as close to the moral high ground as possible but I should've figured that since I wrote a paper on my views of Honesty and Loyalty (and as I stated before Loyalty will turn evil a lot sooner)).

Icy Shake wrote:You could make the
argument that they wouldn't know much of what was going on at MoA, but
there I just have to wonder how much there could be there. The
window for real atrocities wouldn't even begin to open until Luna took
power, I would expect it to take time for RD to build up to anything
really bad, and the window shuts when, or at least soon after, megaspell
tech is leaked.

Well given the fact that the minstries only started when Luna took over that would be when the atrocities would start. Most of the other ministries (not talking mares here) certainly got their evil on during that time I don't see why the MAw couldn't.

Icy Shake wrote:Going further, there's the fact that much of the shock
from MoM comes from the fact that its activities are directed at
Equestrians (so MoA doesn't really have that strike against it), there's
no way RD pulls a Fluttershy and betrays (YMMV) Equestria, and the
population-ending activities are covered by Twilight's megaspell
research.

Yeah Rainbow Dash is loyal to the end no betrayal in FO:E or PH. She probably had a hand with the aiming of the doomsday weapons due to infiltration and targeting talismans/information etc.

Icy Shake wrote:And based on Scootaloo's Rarity-centric dialogue in the orb,
I'm guessing she's not talking about MoI censoring print materials or
making propaganda--and frankly I don't see MoA doing much research
outside of SPP, so it wouldn't be shattering the boundaries of
scientific ethics like MoI did through the soul research.

See I haven't actually gotten to the orb yet so I will take your word on it. Rarity does get the whole "experimenting with forbidden black magic on prisoners and "nopony" ponies."

Icy Shake wrote:Long
story short, there's no reason to think that they really did anything
all that bad (considering the total-war context, and assuming I'm not
blanking on anything vital--I'm thinking the worst from AJ is the
mismanagement and issue regarding AP munitions, and the worst we've seen
from RD is maybe the botched Zecora op). True, that may reduce the
stories to be told centering on them, but in my opinion enriches the
universe by, first, showing that you did have some ponies in authority
who pretty much held it together and stayed on the light side, and
second, potentially increasing their value as characters the others can
play off of in their own stories.

AJ is pretty impregnable without going OOC but in RD's case "Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence" (in reference to bad activities).

Of all the Main Six I figured Rainbow Dash to be the most likely to go off the slippery slope due to being Loyalty (she would do anything for Equestria) just as I figured Applejack to be the best off of them due to being Honesty (she was more or less fine just in need of some guidance on running her ministry).

Hopefully I'm making sense (I did end up restating a lot of points so I think it's pretty coherent).


On a not so unrelated note:
The Enclave started more or less because senior Pegasi were getting fed up with RD and the war. Rainbow Dash got their ire due to her "calls for more Pegasi to enter the war (that was kinda the whole point of the SPP). Maybe it's just a lack of information but why isn't there more outward concern from these groups in regards to her actions. There aren't really any (shown) protests or resistance of much form (and these groups managed to found the Enclave which lasted 200 years so they had some form of effective power base with which to draw from).

I'm thinking it's more than just that.

Rainbow Dash is the Director for Equestria's Black Ops (so basically CIA). She's shown to still be on goodish terms with Pinkie Pie (who effectively is the head of the FBI). I'm thinking the senior Pegasi did bother her and she went and dug up blackmail material on them to shut them up and then designed the SPP to be one big stick in the discussions regarding their loyalty to Equestria.

This would (I believe) really demonstrate why the Enclave leaders hate Rainbow Dash so much. She blackmailed them and then held them at (effective) gunpoint in maintaining loyalty to Equestria. When the Megaspells hit and took out Cloudsdale they decided to take their chances with secession and pulled out right there (since I find it difficult to believe that a secession would just occur so easily and suddenly without reason).

This would also mean that SPP's hidden use (by this reasoning), to completely destroy a Pegasi Separatist State, would have been carried out by LittlePip to nigh perfection (timing is a little off though).

I'm almost definitely rambling now but these ideas have just sprung on me and I need to get them out before they start rotting in my head.


I probably just failed grammar/punctuation with this post. Epically. Ah well. Now to stew over the Honesty=Innocence conundrum (and read more PH).

Oh hey it's been an hour since I started typing this. I owe myself $100.

[EDIT]: Saw Theta's post no I edited out the [REDACTED] part before posting.

Also, FeatherDust. That is brilliant. Abso-freaking-lutely brilliant! If I didn't love the idea of a Space Ship city I would jump right into that bandwagon. Instead I'll just buy enough shares to have a legitimate claim (no matter how minor) in believing your theory.

(Oh I just know I'm going to go over this monster post later and find several somethings that I will have to change due to my need to be perfect/correct, dammit).

Well OneMoreDaySk's post has promoted me to do a more complete review of the status of the various things that they could possibly be charged with under the Geneva convention and the International standards of war. I am not a Lawyer or have any Law background, but I do have a sailors understanding of the Geneva convention training plus a touch of layman knowledge and the all mighty power of the Google.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:

Pretty sure none of the Mane Six meant to do anything wrong, but:
1) For AJ, she's 'spossed to keep an eye on all the subsidiaries of her ministry. She herself might not had done wrong, but her trying to get the companies clean came a little too late, as seen with the elevator "accident".

AJ is blameless, again unless she did something horrible off camera or used slave labor in wartime construction she has a clean legal bill of heath. Building weapons is not only legal but doing so makes you a military target which is why it can be a crime to make PoW's work in your factories supporting the war effort, and Slavery is a long standing crime against man(pony). I don't see Applejack letting slave labor in her factories and more importantly I don't think she stand for it in associated factories nor do I see her going off camera to do something worthy of a mustache twirl.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
2) There's too little information on RD for me to say anything on her verdict, but she did like the idea of "cheating" by ruining supplies. Don't know how far that goes though.

Attacking supply lines is a legitimate military target, even poisoning them under certain conditions is an allowed tactic if your ruining your own supplies or captured supplies to prevent them from falling into enemy hands, but handing out posion candy to civilians will get you charged under deliberately attacking non combatants. Nor do I see her executing captives or ordering it done. Rainbow Dash could have done something but I don't see anything terrible happening.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
3) Pinkie was using Zebra drugs ala Party-Time Mintals, which I recall was banned. She also had some dubious dealings with characters such as Razorwire, but I don't think the darker side of her ministry listened to her, more like heeded what she said and listened to the OIA liason.

We are talking about war crimes here, being a junkie is a crime in Equestrian law not international war tribunals. In this case Pinkie could have done all sorts of things that resulted in getting charged. Specifically memory modification and extraction against the will counts as Torture. And given the MoM your taking tens of thousands of counts against Equestrian citizens. The question is was the MoM involved in interrogation of Zebra armed forces prisoners, if yes then she and her department get thrown under the cart under Torture charges, otherwise any kind of suit would have to come from Equestria where she's already got a few thousand wrongful imprisonment and illegal seizure cases to deal with.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
4) Twilight's life kind of messed up. We know she was having a kid (Tarrot?), and had to have another mare surrogate, with a possible mind wipe. Then she makes Gardens of Equestria and has that mind-wiped, then she went as a last effort both on bypass spells and the Alicorn Potion, which probably had a ton of test subjects that she didn't know about. She was responsible for kicking the Diamond Dogs out of their homes though, that much I blame her for.

The rest subjects are where Twilight could be in trouble, again if they were not willing subjects she could be facing charges the same as Pinkie but under Article three as Taint is in essence a bio-weapon and if she was conducting Bioweapon tests on a civilian population we tend to hustle you to the Hauge as fast as physics allows to slap Crimes against Humanity charges on your head.

But that assumes again unwilling participants

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
5) Rarity also dealt more closely with the darker side of her ministry, but with the best intentions. Not too much to say except she's doing what she could. Heck, I'm impressed she didn't get corrupted by the book, but instead made the figurines.

Fuck that, Rarity directly experimented on prisoners, she's going to be charged under Article three same as any Nazi Camp Doctor, worse she was practicing Zebra Necromancy which gets you charged with brand new crimes they invent just for you about subverting the natural order and creating abominations. Of the Mane Six Rarity is the easest one to charge and the case is open and shut since Soul jars tend to make unending witnesses. I can put Rarity on the stand and ask, "Excuse me (I forget the name of the Scarf Soul Jar) but is the Pony that ordered your soul ripped from your body to be trapped in that lump of fabric here in this courtroom? Let the record show the scarf nodded yes... Can you point out the pony? *Le Gasp*, thank you let the court record show that the Scarf identified Ministry Mare Rarity as the one who did the deed.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:
6) Fluttershy also was trying to do what's best. Sure she wanted to givethe megaspells over, but look what the zebras did anyways. She's also responsible for the Fluttershy Medical Clinic foals and what happened to them, i.e. should have tested further. I'm also pretty sure Fluttershy's responsible for Memory Manipulation and not Pinkie.

Fluttershy has plenty to be charged with the same as Rarity on behalf of her ministry which did Chimera among other things. But again we can't convict her of anything.

@space
Whether or not Redoubt is related to space, it's probably safe to say that Blackjack is going to end up going there. Rocket Town has been mentioned too many times to not have some kind of significance. Blackjack first retrieved maneframe parts from the Ironshod R&D for the Orion Brotherhood (the group that occupies Rocket Town). Pisces and Capri were paid by the Orions to retrieve navigational equipment from the HMS Luna. Rampage also mentioned that Rocket Town was being attacked by hell hounds.
My guess is that Rocket Town (the launch site of the first space rocket) holds all of the secrets about Project Horizons. This is because Marigold's medical waiver was labeled PH, presumably for Project Horizons. The Orions are probably going to use the navigational equipment and maneframe parts to repair a space rocket.

OAN: Has anyone else noticed that one of the Pecos Blackjack spoke to when first meeting Dust Trails was a Steel Ranger acolyte named Harbinger?. If both Steel Rain and Harbinger are affiliated with the Harbingers, then it would suggest that they had a large influence within the Steel Rangers before Folly woke up whatever is inside the Core

Cptadder wrote:

Didn't mean to say they were guilty of inequine actions, just said they were responsible for it all.

Dunno how long Applejack was in charge, but she let things get out of hand, and when she tried to clean up the contractors, they just backstabber her. She was responsible for the contractors.

Repeat what I said for Rainbow Dash; too little information. But from what I gather, she would have been better as a combatant, being to hot-headed to see from the other pegasi's point and try to convince them. Hence the abandonment. She was responsible for the pegasi front.

On Pinkie, I meant to say the drugs kind of messed her up, seeing as she was responsible for her ministry, but as Razorwire pointed out, she didn't follow up. Sure she pointed out the bad guys, but didn't actually follow through with it, instead pointing out more bad guys. Can't really hold her responsible for morale, as war kind of fscks things up on that end, and it's already pointed out by Littlepip that she tried to make ponies happy, which was wrong. She was responsible for her own group.

Twilight was responsible for the Diamond Dogs' departure, and she didn't even pay much attention to them after shoving them out. There's also the issue of the magical weapons, but she was too focused on the alicorn potion, and come on, there has to be some experiments going on she doesn't know about using the flux. Kind of curious though; if the potion had worked and they won with a ton of alicorns, then what would happen to them afterwards. She didn't think it through, did she? So she's responsible for all of those lives she affected with her pursuit of the winning solution. Also I don't think she had unwilling subjects, otherwise why ask Trixie of all others?

Yeah, we kind of know what Rarity's responsible for; those lives she carelessly tossed aside in pursuit of the wi-... So she's pretty much like Twilight, except not as hesitant to jump of the slope.
As a side note, I wanna see the scarf and co. in Phoenix Wright courtroom. Thanks for the mental image.

Same thing with Fluttershy for the matter. The conversation with Cheerilee comes to mind, or was that with Redheart? The one where somepony was saying something of letting foals die or something like that. There also was the thing with Chimera as well...

Sorry if I'm making less sense, brain is mush now. G'nite.

swicked wrote:

Cptadder wrote:Fluttershy has plenty to be charged with the same as Rarity on behalf of her ministry which did Chimera among other things. But again we can't convict her of anything.

...while Rarity might try to fight the charges with lies and cover-ups and the others might try to muddle the issue of their crimes (some to greater degrees of success than others), am I the only one that would expect Fluttershy to crack under any pressure and confess everything she ever did to the first pony that demanded it of her?
Heck, when it came to the megaspells, I imagine she'd even insist that what she did was supposed to prevent anyone from dying anymore, and if given the option she'd do it again... just hopefully with some means of ensuring the megaspells couldn't be perverted into weapons.

You don't need to "convict" her at all.

The only reason she didn't do this was because Goldie here was covering for her.

Theta wrote:@space
Whether or not Redoubt is related to space, it's probably safe to say that Blackjack is going to end up going there. Rocket Town has been mentioned too many times to not have some kind of significance. Blackjack first retrieved maneframe parts from the Ironshod R&D for the Orion Brotherhood (the group that occupies Rocket Town). Pisces and Capri were paid by the Orions to retrieve navigational equipment from the HMS Luna. Rampage also mentioned that Rocket Town was being attacked by hell hounds.
My guess is that Rocket Town (the launch site of the first space rocket) holds all of the secrets about Project Horizons. This is because Marigold's medical waiver was labeled PH, presumably for Project Horizons. The Orions are probably going to use the navigational equipment and maneframe parts to repair a space rocket.

OAN: Has anyone else noticed that one of the Pecos Blackjack spoke to when first meeting Dust Trails was a Steel Ranger acolyte named Harbinger?. If both Steel Rain and Harbinger are affiliated with the Harbingers, then it would suggest that they had a large influence within the Steel Rangers before Folly woke up whatever is inside the Core

Oh god it's the "religious ghouls with rockets" from New Vegas all over again

But yes SPAAAAAAAAAAAACCCEEEEEEEEE!!!

That seems plausible since the Steel Rangers are pretty big Technophiles and the Core is basically the most advanced Tech this side of Equestria.

Still recovering from that Mega Post.

OAN: UO has an event going on where you gather 5 different ingredients and brew them into a potion with each ingredient ranging from a quantity of 1-3. I've been flawlessly brewing these potions (Hacking in Fallout games is harder since I seem to get 10 tries before failure) and just need to wait for more ingredients before I try my hand again. Really fun mental exercise to distract myself with.

And on yet another note (AOYAN?): I was thinking about what kind of PnP system would be best for Fallout and came to the conclusion that I would be better off cobbling one together to fit the parameters (somehow make the perks, skills, traits, and S.P.E.C.I.A.L. work similarly to how they do in the games/fics). Being able to PnP the Fallout: Equestria and Project Horizons universe would be so awesome! (<- Rainbow Dash voice)

Mikas wrote:And on yet another note (AOYAN?): I was thinking about what kind of PnP system would be best for Fallout and came to the conclusion that I would be better off cobbling one together to fit the parameters (somehow make the perks, skills, traits, and S.P.E.C.I.A.L. work similarly to how they do in the games/fics). Being able to PnP the Fallout: Equestria and Project Horizons universe would be so awesome! (<- Rainbow Dash voice)

If I remember correctly, there are already two FoE PnP systems.