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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:42 pm


Source

Welcome to the Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion Thread!
This is the place to discuss Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, a Fallout/MLP:FiM crossover fic by Somber. Story discussion is on the left, group therapy to the right. Please try to schedule your emotional breakdowns when they don't conflict with anyone else's.

Rules
We have just a few simple rules here.


  1. Don't put down Somber.
  2. Project Horizons is a grimdark fic which deals with adult topics, so we might discuss subjects that some readers may find uncomfortable. Be mature about it.
  3. If Somber or a member of the editing team says to end a discussion, please do so.
  4. Spoilers abound. If you're not current on the fic, we recommend that you catch up before you read on.
  5. Looking for random discussions that may or may not have anything to do with the story? Check out the [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread!
  6. Have fun!


People You Should Know
Somber: The author of Project Horizons, creator of Blackjack, maker of awesomeness, is a small gray mare who lives in the head of a guy named David. Ignore her claims of suckage.
Bronode, O. Hinds, swicked, and Heartshine: Your editing team. They make awesome writing look all shiny and pretty.
Kkat: The author of the original Fallout: Equestria. Not a participant in this discussion (yet), but you should be aware of her anyway. If you haven't read FOE, why are you even here? Go! Read!

Somber's Tip Jar
Thank-yous of the monetary variety may be made through PayPal. Simply click on Send Money, send it to David13ushey@gmail.com and mark it as a personal gift.

Story Links
GoogleDocs chapter index - Links to every chapter, plus FOE and FOEPH resources, media, and story download formats.
[url=http://www.mediaf


Last edited by SilentCarto on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:55 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
tylertoon2 wrote:The closest thing he's ever had to a loving relationship was Duct Tape playing house with him as an unwilling participant.

There was that other stallion that he seemed really passionate for really early on (gosh it feels like years ago), we never really heard the rest of that story.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by JadedPony on Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:05 pm

P-21 said that Blackjack made him feel like he did when he was with Him and he thinks that might be love. I think both of them are so broken they wouldn't know love if it slapped them in the face but I also think they do love each other in a complicated, freaky, stable 99ish way.
Sexy times talk:

I mean look at them together, Blackjack becomes submissive and loving while P-21 becomes dominant and takes charge to literally drive the unhappiness out of Blackjack with orgasms. I thought the entire sex scene was very romantic but I'm older and the blood doesn't run from my brain at the drop of a hat any more. It seemed to me that it was P-21 finally letting go and being himself, not who he was suppose to be, and using that take charge personality that he has only shown when teaching the crusaders to be the pony that Blackjack needed most right then, even though it was something he wouldn't normally enjoy. It was an act of sacrifice for love, very romantic in my view.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by JadedPony on Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:10 pm

SilentCarto wrote:

Source

Welcome to the Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion Thread!
This is the place to discuss Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, a Fallout/MLP:FiM crossover fic by Somber. Story discussion is on the left, group therapy to the right. Please try to schedule your emotional breakdowns when they don't conflict with anyone else's.

Well, that was.. um.. random.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by tylertoon2 on Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:27 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
tylertoon2 wrote:The P-21/Jack Romance seems not really to be a Romance...
Well, I think you're right, but I think that's okay. BJ has never been good at romance -- witness her pass at Midnight in chapter 1 -- and let's be honest, she's been out of the stable all of, what, five months? And effectively alone for three of them. Combined with the pressing concerns of stopping Horizons, that's not a lot of time to get socially adjusted. She started the story by noting that security mares in 99 were sort of outcast, and her lousy grasp of magic made her a misfit even among them. Her whole adult life has been largely self-focused -- not only in terms of "I want", but also "I'm not" and "I can't" and "I have to". I guess what I'm saying is, it would probably be more surprising if BJ did suddenly stumble her way into a stable (heh) relationship.

I mean, are we really proposing that P-21 is capable of romance, either? The closest thing he's ever had to a loving relationship was Duct Tape playing house with him as an unwilling participant. If a couple of severely broken ponies like that can manage to approximate a happy life together in this screwed-up wasteland, I say more power to 'em.

For however long it lasts.
Ah we are actually in agreement here. I did seem like I was coming off harsh I really was trying to get across what you say here. I was trying to make the distinction that the P-21 jack thing isn't a Romance and maybe even Glory wasn't either, it isn't good or bad. It's another example of Somber's fantastic characterisation and how he manages to not go the easy route in his writing. These two still have issues, and neither of them know what they want from each other. 

I made that whole tirade inspired by some detractors who had dismissed project horizons partly because of how Somber handles Sex. Forgetting the fact that this is in the point of view of Blackjack. A notoriously unobservant and frequently 'selfish' for lack of a better word. No to mention from somewhere from a distinctly foreign culture. While those detractors claimed Somber used sexuality in the work in a  meaningless attempt at titillation and cheap laughs I think that is false. Sex is an important part of the work, so is love. These two things as we know them, Blackjack is totally foreign to. 

So yes. Hope that made sense.

@Jaded

You make a very good point. Actually I might have to give you that one. 
In case you haven't noticed I change my mind on a dime, mostly because you guys are way Smarter Ponies than me. There's a reason despite loving the class I will never be a English or Lit teacher.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by tylertoon2 on Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:45 pm

JadedPony wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:

Source

Welcome to the Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion Thread!
This is the place to discuss Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, a Fallout/MLP:FiM crossover fic by Somber. Story discussion is on the left, group therapy to the right. Please try to schedule your emotional breakdowns when they don't conflict with anyone else's.

Well, that was.. um.. random.
(Sorry for Double Post)

Once the thread hits page 34 or 33 we get ready to split the page into a new one. We filled like 200 now. Not including the discussion threads on EQD
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by JadedPony on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:24 am

What's the link for the new thread?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by tylertoon2 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:32 am

JadedPony wrote:What's the link for the new thread?
Just check the forum. You will know when it splits.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:35 am

SilentCarto wrote:Bronode and O. Hinds: Your editing team.
Yup, they sure are! Spike

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:39 am

Caoimhe wrote:I'd love to see Glory's side of the story, she's gone through a fuckton more than BJ as a whole and she actually grew up.

bes pon pegasus master race
She is, in other words, not boring! :)

swicked wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:Bronode and O. Hinds: Your editing team.
Yup, they sure are! Spike
…Yeah, bit out of date there. :)
Also, I don't actually remember whether Bronode has ever come on here…
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:42 am

JadedPony wrote:What's the link for the new thread?
You've been through at least a few already. Don't worry about it; you're likely following the thread and the updates will take you to where you need to go, or there's always the recent posts sidebar.

swicked wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:Bronode and O. Hinds: Your editing team.
Yup, they sure are! Spike
Yeah, I was kind of updating that part without SilentCarto's say-so as the roster changed. I'm arrogant like that.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:43 am

O. Hinds wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:I'd love to see Glory's side of the story, she's gone through a fuckton more than BJ as a whole and she actually grew up.

bes pon pegasus master race
She is, in other words, not boring!  :)
You just keep telling yourselves that.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:Bronode and O. Hinds: Your editing team.
Yup, they sure are! Spike
…Yeah, bit out of date there.  :)
Also, I don't actually remember whether Bronode has ever come on here…
I'm gonna say no, he has not.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:46 am

swicked wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:Bronode and O. Hinds: Your editing team.
Yup, they sure are! Spike
…Yeah, bit out of date there.  :)
Also, I don't actually remember whether Bronode has ever come on here…
I'm gonna say no, he has not.
Sure he has! Twice even! And one of the times wasn't letting us know he was changing his handle to Niphl!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by JadedPony on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:54 am

I vote the theme song for the next chapter be: 
The Final Countdown:


Edited because I spend to much time on youtube.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Silver136 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

swicked wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:I'd love to see Glory's side of the story, she's gone through a fuckton more than BJ as a whole and she actually grew up.

bes pon pegasus master race
She is, in other words, not boring!  :)
You just keep telling yourselves that.
I kinda stopped liking Glory after a while. When she first got into the group she was an interesting character, planning to study raider disease and trying to help the "surfacers." Now though she does feel kinda boring to me. She no longer has that drive that made her interesting and relatable. Plus she dumped Blackjack...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:15 am

JadedPony wrote:Well, that was.. um.. random.
The second post of page 34 will become the first post of the new thread after it splits. We've been at this for a while.

JadedPony wrote:What's the link for the new thread?
It hasn't split yet. It will do so after we hit, I think, 38 or 39 pages.

Icy Shake wrote:Yeah, I was kind of updating that part without SilentCarto's say-so as the roster changed. I'm arrogant like that.
Ah, yes, it's been so long since I caught one of these, I'm way out of date. Lemme fix that. Thanks for the heads-up!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:20 am

Silver136 wrote:I kinda stopped liking Glory after a while. When she first got into the group she was an interesting character, planning to study raider disease and trying to help the "surfacers." Now though she does feel kinda boring to me. She no longer has that drive that made her interesting and relatable. Plus she dumped Blackjack...
It's not that she no longer has drive, it's just that her proactive personal goals have been set aside in favor of reactive team goals. That whole "end of the world" thing tends to focus people's attention...

In other words, "security of body, resources, and family" have been overriding "problem solving" and "achievement" ever since Dawn stabbed Sky Striker.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:27 am

I don't think I have ever liked Glory. I think Bronode is the same way. Somber and Hinds are her advocates.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:41 am

SilentCarto wrote:Ah, yes, it's been so long since I caught one of these, I'm way out of date. Lemme fix that. Thanks for the heads-up!
Thanks!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vinylshadow on Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:13 pm

I think we established she's too much like Velvet for some people

Only real difference being name, color and species
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Downloaded Skill on Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:04 pm

I actually like Glory because she's a version of Velvet Remedy that doesn't piss me off to no end. They're both idealists, but taken in different directions.

Velvet is idealistic and moral, which can be very useful in turning a morally bankrupt location into a place people would like to live , but she is also completely unwilling to bend on those ideals even if it makes sense or does more good in the long run. Her lack of pragmatism in the wasteland where things are complicated and morally gray just came off as childish and self righteously idiotic to me.

Glory, on the other hand, is willing to think out why things are the way they are and the ramifications of both their continued existence and abrupt end. She is still willing to support the moral options when it makes sense and would greatly prefer if everyone lived like moral, civil people, but because she is willing to see the big picture she won't just bludgeon her way through things to enforce moral conduct when the results of doing so would just make things worse.

I like Glory's "pragmatic idealist" outlook because it seems more realistic and more thought out than Velvet's outlook which would be better suited for things like fairy tails.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Scienza on Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:51 pm

Downloaded Skill wrote:I actually like Glory because she's a version of Velvet Remedy that doesn't piss me off to no end. They're both idealists, but taken in different directions.

Velvet is idealistic and moral, which can be very useful in turning a morally bankrupt location into a place people would like to live , but she is also completely unwilling to bend on those ideals even if it makes sense or does more good in the long run. Her lack of pragmatism in the wasteland where things are complicated and morally gray just came off as childish and self righteously idiotic to me.

Glory, on the other hand, is willing to think out why things are the way they are and the ramifications of both their continued existence and abrupt end. She is still willing to support the moral options when it makes sense and would greatly prefer if everyone lived like moral, civil people, but because she is willing to see the big picture she won't just bludgeon her way through things to enforce moral conduct when the results of doing so would just make things worse.

I like Glory's "pragmatic idealist" outlook because it seems more realistic and more thought out than Velvet's outlook which would be better suited for things like fairy tails.
I agree with all of this. Also, one of the things that I like about Glory is her characterization as a pragmatic, "sane" scientist. She has a passionate love of science and learning, but it never consumes her to the point that she becomes a mad scientist or doctor evil. Glory's joy at finding new information has a genuineness that is surprisingly refreshing.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:09 pm

Velvet pisses me off because she had no grounding to want to act "peace and harmony" towards the violent wasteland before she found it. The stable didn't have everyone constantly trying to kill her - in fact she was an idol in the stable. Normal characters would get over that sense of idealism right quick the first time they'd see a body explode in front of them. Fluttershy obsession doesn't count.

If anything Glory's upbringing could yield something closer to Velvet's characterization. Pretend Pip and Blackjack don't exist and a story centered on Velvet meeting Glory would be pretty interesting.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:07 pm

Velvet and Glimmerlight, to a lesser extent, irk because I have a lot of trouble accepting their protestations of pacifism and nonviolence when, in effect, both more outsource the use of force to others than anything else. Glimmerlight gets some leeway, since she's more of a passive beneficiary. Velvet chooses to travel with extremely violent people and joins them in situations where absent them killing people, she'd be dead. And of course we aren't looking at a situation where, for example, a conscientious objector benefits from military and police, or is conscripted and has a choice between imprisonment and serving in a non-combat role and elects the latter; she shares common cause and travels with and gives material aid (sometimes nonlethal combat aid) to, under no compulsion whatsoever, a group that as a matter of course uses deadly force on a daily basis. Oh, and then there were the raiders at Fluttershy's cottage.

An interesting question I'm now asking myself, though, is is there were any cases where Glory was notably more successful in challenging the group's tactics, agenda, or morals on a substantial matter than Velvet. Velvet had very little success in pushing for nonviolent solutions (the assassination of Deadeyes, Arbu, etc. all went through without too much complaint or action in response). It's harder, I think, to think of any because Glory isn't (notionally) as much of a hardliner as Velvet, and Blackjack is much closer to her ethically as well, so there isn't quite the contrast. I'd say that there was at least one major failure, in trying to get Blackjack to stop getting into trouble, which failed at Pain Train and was effectively dropped altogether at the start of the Society arc. I suppose she had a better run with monogamy, but that was still a little flexible and at this point not really something that matters anymore, at least right now, but moreover Glory seems to be moving closer to Blackjack's sexual mores anyway. Her input may have helped shape the outcome on leaving the Society, but that was basically a middle path not too far from what Blackjack wanted in the first place, which was maintaining stability but with some serf reform. Are there any big examples of Glory challenging Blackjack or the group on something big, and really getting her way, or at least causing a considerable swing closer to what she preferred?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:39 pm

Downloaded Skill wrote:Velvet is idealistic and moral, which can be very useful in turning a morally bankrupt location into a place people would like to live , but she is also completely unwilling to bend on those ideals even if it makes sense or does more good in the long run. Her lack of pragmatism in the wasteland where things are complicated and morally gray just came off as childish and self righteously idiotic to me.
I think it's not just that she's self-righteous. I can really enjoy a character whose abrasive self-righteousness is their big character flaw; the problem is that the story doesn't present it as a flaw. Instead, it seems to nod along and hold up Velvet's self-righteousness as the correct view most of the time. But oh, when it's killing time, she conveniently keeps her yap shut so as to not be wrong.

And then her big, violent breakdown comes not because she can't reconcile her morality with the necessities of life in the Wasteland, but because she saw a bunch of raiders "desecrating" her idol's old house.
How

Icy Shake wrote:An interesting question I'm now asking myself, though, is is there were any cases where Glory was notably more successful in challenging the group's tactics, agenda, or morals on a substantial matter than Velvet.
Well... I'd have to say no, but it's not for the reasons you'd think. It simply rarely gets to the point of challenging the group's tactics and agenda because Glory is "the smart pony"; when she has something substantial to suggest, Blackjack largely listens to her. If they disagree on priorities, they're able to have a rational discussion about it.

In a lot of ways, Glory is Calamity and P-21 is Velvet; P-21 is the character that most often disagrees with BJ's choices, even if he comes at it from a footing of extreme aggression instead of pacifism. Suppose you turned that question around: Are there any cases where Calamity was notably successful in challenging the group's tactics, agenda, or morals?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:47 pm

SilentCarto wrote:And then her big, violent breakdown comes not because she can't reconcile her morality with the necessities of life in the Wasteland, but because she saw a bunch of raiders "desecrating" her idol's old house.
How
Yeah, that has to have been about the weakest excuse she could ever have had. And it means she valued the place where someone presumably long dead (or was that post Fluttertree discovery, not that it makes a difference?) more than not only her own safety, but the invasion of her old home and wholesale slaughter of its inhabitants, slavery and all that comes with it, and everything else they saw, including gaining ponies' trust and then slaughtering them for food. About the only way it could have been more of an unjustified, unprincipled, utterly self-centered turnabout would be if she snapped and murdered the staff of the spa in Tenpony because one of them chipped her hoof.

SilentCarto wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:An interesting question I'm now asking myself, though, is is there were any cases where Glory was notably more successful in challenging the group's tactics, agenda, or morals on a substantial matter than Velvet.
Well... I'd have to say no, but it's not for the reasons you'd think. It simply rarely gets to the point of challenging the group's tactics and agenda because Glory is "the smart pony"; when she has something substantial to suggest, Blackjack largely listens to her. If they disagree on priorities, they're able to have a rational discussion about it.

In a lot of ways, Glory is Calamity and P-21 is Velvet; P-21 is the character that most often disagrees with BJ's choices, even if he comes at it from a footing of extreme aggression instead of pacifism. Suppose you turned that question around: Are there any cases where Calamity was notably successful in challenging the group's tactics, agenda, or morals?
Well, there was the time late in the game where he suggested and got the orb plan for the Wonderbolts, but there wasn't much pushback from Littlepip and I don't think there was really a solidified plan to go against. He questioned (or just complained about) tactics sometimes, like with the chimera stable or objecting to the Phillydelphia plan before immediately rolling over. He had arguments about killing with Velvet, but of course he was in those cases on the side of the group, not going against it. But on the whole, I can't think off the top of my head an instance where he even had a meaningful difference of opinion with Littlepip. PTMs, naturally, need not apply, and I'm not even sure he was strongly against them.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:43 pm

For the record, I never said I liked Velvet more than Glory. I like Glory more than every character in the original Fallout Equestria. The lot of them always came off to me as flat and uninteresting.
I like Glimmer from MNS more than Glory, though. She has her faults, but her faults seem more alive than the faults of the FoE characters do. She isn't her flaws, but she plays them up to hide her deeper insecurities. It makes her interesting.
Glory is interesting, too... but not enough so. She's just very passive and feels like a background character to me. I don't remember Blackjack turning to her for advice very often, just comfort. She's a shoulder to cry on. Her medical abilities and connection to the Enclave make her useful, too. She just doesn't have much give and take with the other characters and the world around them.
P-21 has had his connections with stable 99 and Scotch, he's relied upon Rampage to work out his issues, he wears the hat of that mare I don't remember who tried to live  in freedom after they took down Gorgon but was cut down by Sanguine. He involved himself in the Society's corruption and worked in Chapel to help them to defend themselves. He is invested in the world around him.
Rampage is a bit less so, but she has a long history and many know her. She has had her friendships. She has her rivalry with Psychoshy.
Lacunae was infested in Unity, being a direct line to a past big bad, and had a potential relationship with Stronghoof.
Glory... well, she had her mother, who ignored her and cared pretty much only about Blackjack. She had her sisters, who we almost never see and weren't concerned about her, either. She was a footnote to Lighthooves, at most. When in the Enclave, she still just sort of hung around, regretting being around stuff she was once attached to, until they went back to ground. She's now got something going with Tenebra, but before that, I don't think she ever fostered any relationships. Even when Blackjack was gone her only concern was getting back to her and nothing else, seeming disconnected once again to those around her.

I'm a friendshipper. I like seeing characters care about each other, or hate each other, or just have something dynamic outside of the main character. I don't feel like, at any previous part of the story, Glory wanted anything to do with anyone that wasn't Blackjack. She saved Scotch and P-21's life, as well as slept with P-21 eventually, but they're still pretty much disconnected. They don't talk, there isn't much of a sense of familiarity, and... well, I've probably made my point.

I find Glory boring. It's not just her lack of a strong character-driving goal and any attempt at making progress towards it, but a disconnect from those around her that makes her feel like she's not a part of the world. At least, to me.


Last edited by swicked on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Silver136 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:01 pm

swicked wrote:
Lacunae was infested in Unity, being a direct line to a past big bad, and had a potential relationship with Steelhooves


I think you mean Stronghoof. 
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:17 pm

Yes I did, corrected.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Silver136 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:28 pm

I can't delete my post for some reason...hmm.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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