[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

SilentCarto wrote:It occurs to me that Steelhooves is the only surviving Marauder that hasn't teamed up with BJ. Though Jetstream is technically MIA right now, not confirmed dead.

Also, Hinds, Stonewing got left out of the roll call in the most recent chapter.

Oh man imagine if steelhooves ever found out what happened to the rest of his team? That would have been devastating.

Ketchup wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:

Ketchup wrote:It happens often that my father would bring up something at dinner, like Lagrange points(this actually happened),

You have an awesome dad.

I also wanted to say, it probably doesn't hurt that between reading FOE, mapping it, and sketching out some timeline, I've probably seen every major plot point three times.

We once had a lengthy discussion about Harrier jets and the Falklands War, and my sisters and mother didn't follow. He also seems to have a fascination with the Phalanx CIWS...

From an engineering standpoint, what part of the Phalanx CIWS isn't fascinating? A 30mm, 3000rpm cannon with radar targeting so precise that it can shoot missiles out of the air, MADE OF WIN. Your father has exceptional taste in naval hardware.

SilentCarto wrote:Also, Hinds, Stonewing got left out of the roll call in the most recent chapter.

What? Where?

swicked wrote:Wait.
Wait.
I just got a stupid idea.
Really stupid, actually.

Father was an egotistical jerk, yellow pony, spent most of his time working with goldenblood?

Could Echo be Goldenblood's half-brother? Or something?

More likely Horse...
But you may be onto something there.

O. Hinds wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:Also, Hinds, Stonewing got left out of the roll call in the most recent chapter.

What? Where?

My copy of the chapter is out of date. False alarm.

SilentCarto wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:Also, Hinds, Stonewing got left out of the roll call in the most recent chapter.

What? Where?

My copy of the chapter is out of date. False alarm.

Ah, right then. Thank you for your vigilance anyway.

swicked wrote:

Caoimhe wrote:Then it started feeling creepy, akin to bestiality.

...I think of her more of a child (she's less than a year old, I'd think... I mean, how long could she of realistically stayed alive in that hell hole?) with the body of an adult that they treat like an animal.
So I say it might like a combination of pedophilia, from my standpoint, and bestiality, from theirs.

But... yeah. I dunno.

In any case, questionable capacity to give proper consent. And that's before you get to the weird authority issues; Blackjack and Boo are almost like mother and daughter even if they were both mentally capable adults. The whole thought is kinda squicky all around, so I'm probably glad that the chances of anything of that nature actually happening are low.

I thought Trottenheimer's Folly deserved a musical theme of its own, so... I made one.

Sindri wrote:

swicked wrote:

Caoimhe wrote:Then it started feeling creepy, akin to bestiality.

...I think of her more of a child (she's less than a year old, I'd think... I mean, how long could she of realistically stayed alive in that hell hole?) with the body of an adult that they treat like an animal.
So I say it might like a combination of pedophilia, from my standpoint, and bestiality, from theirs.

But... yeah. I dunno.

In any case, questionable capacity to give proper consent. And that's before you get to the weird authority issues; Blackjack and Boo are almost like mother and daughter even if they were both mentally capable adults. The whole thought is kinda squicky all around, so I'm probably glad that the chances of anything of that nature actually happening are low.

Though, it's just occurred to me... Glory was probably making a correct supposition about 99 culture in general even though she was wrong in Blackjack's case. True, 99 didn't really have bestiality, but I kind of suspect that that's just because they didn't have any animals.

Heads up from fourchan... please don't make Boo end up having sex with Blackjack.

There's already a lot of other issues and one only brought up in the latest chapter (I believe. I may be wrong. It may be the one before it.) that causes a lot of controversy over there and in some ways, I agree with them even if I don't agree with everything they say or to the extent they they do.

Where is this even coming from? I may have to re-read the last chapter.

The other thing that backs up that 99 doesn't especially support bestiality:

Blackjack is creeped out by manticore x pony sex.

Pfft, the Courier in New Vegas can end up having sex with a robot, of all things. Fallout protagonists have really, really low standards to begin with. If Blackjack got sufficiently drunk and did the deed with Boo, that would just be another one of her many hilarious screw-ups. And then Glory would have to punish her extra hard in order to maintain the status quo. Business as usual.

Oh, don't mind me. I've had one too many glasses of Wild Turkey 101. Shit's potent.

Personally, I find myself in disagreement. My time with people who have completely different views of both Project Horizons and Somber himself than is usually seen around here has been... challenging my viewpoints and made me see some things in a different light.

If Blackjack slept with Boo, it would be going against her promise to be a better partner for Glory, to Glory. She'd be throwing away any and all trust there could possibly be simply for carnal pleasure - but she's pushed that line too many times now to be even partially forgiven again.

Not only that, but as mentioned, Boo is seen as a child and Blackjack is her point of authority. Even if she were to gain cognitive ability to the point of free will and ability to decide on such a thing, it would be using her at the very least.


Aside from this, we have no prior signs that Boo is the least part sexually interested in anything, even as a creature of primal instinct and basic memory. She has a lust for snack cakes and nothing more. Her desire to feel the affectionate hold of Blackjack is more of a mother/daughter thing as previously mentioned.

Kippershy wrote:The other thing that backs up that 99 doesn't especially support bestiality:

Blackjack is creeped out by manticore x pony sex.

Ah, good point; I'd forgotten that.

Hmm, I agree. It would be more than a little bit awkward. But at the same time, I find it incredibly amusing when Blackjack crosses the line and then seeks forgiveness over and over and over again. It's like, how far can she go before she's past the point of no return? How low can she sink?

I haven't been keeping up with the thread. I've been ill, tired and generally worn out - leaving me with no desire to try catch up.
So it's a general consensus then? Good.

When Glory made the hypothetical suggestion that BJ might have sex with Boo it only served as an example of how little she really understood BJ's sexuality.
Its an irrational knee jerk argument, the implication being that If you break one (perceived) social rule then you have no regard for any others, an utterly ridiculous assertion.
BJ thought it ok to sleep with Stygius because she was completely unaware that Glory (or anybody else) would be upset by it, now she knows its not okay (with Glory). She will probably spend plenty of time trying to wrap her head around "why" it isn't ok, monogamy being an alien concept, but its pretty obvious that BJ loves Glory enough to not fuck anything that is willing now she knows it will threaten their relationship.
Even taking into account BJ's more liberal moral position on sex, that position still operates on the founding principle that the sex must be consensual. Boo is (currently) incapable of giving consent, last I checked BJ was no rapist. On top of that I'm also pretty sure incest wasn't ok in the stable 99 moral code, considering there is ample evidence that BJ has a mother-daughter relationship with Boo, consciously or unconsciously on her part. Bottom line: Blackjack will not fuck Boo. No way, no how, not in a million years...... touchwood

I sincerely doubt that Blackjack is going to sleep with Boo, barring strange, unforeseen circumstances. Ryx's picture is interesting because it calls to mind a problem that isn't so much present in PH itself ('cos it's somewhat of a different Boo).

Probably brought up before, but likely before my time. Anyway, I was wonder if anyone thought that Boo would be used as a place to store a soul. (This being under the assumption that Boo, of course, does not have a soul of her own and is relying on baser instincts to survive). In which case, The Dealer, or one of Rampages souls, or even a part of Unity would try and use Boo as a medium to become their own pony. I would like to here your guy's opinion on it.

As far as Boo and souls go, I have the theory that at the end of PH, if Blackjack's body is too thrashed to repair itself any more, then Boo will be used to give Blackjack another chance to live. Probably with a lot of protest that they can't do that to her, especially from Blackjack herself, but Boo will do or maybe even say something to have them do it.
That or Blackjack's soul is pulled away from her body yet again and finds it's way into Boo's rather then her own because it just can't be used anymore.

That's just my theories though, and kinda hope they end up being way off the mark.

But personally if PH ends with Blackjack alive I wouldn't mind it if she and Glory end up raising Boo like a daughter and Boo ends up like a regular pony.

Exodus Hero wrote:Probably brought up before, but likely before my time. Anyway, I was wonder if anyone thought that Boo would be used as a place to store a soul. (This being under the assumption that Boo, of course, does not have a soul of her own and is relying on baser instincts to survive). In which case, The Dealer, or one of Rampages souls, or even a part of Unity would try and use Boo as a medium to become their own pony. I would like to here your guy's opinion on it.

I believe that Boo has a soul... there isn't much evidence for it, but it's the most likely explanation in my mind for why she's so different from other Blanks. She's probably got the mind of a foal given her actual age, and didn't have any social experience whatsoever before Blackjack came along, but she seems to have all the drive, creativity, and emotion of a "real" complete person. She acts like an animal (which really all small children do), she's physically mature (because of the cloning process) and she doesn't talk (because she hadn't probably heard much in the way of words before a couple weeks ago, and spent a lot of that left alone somewhere safer), but so far I haven't seen anything to indicate she didn't have a soul.

Another Blank would work for soul-storage; it'd basically be just like the organ transplants they're normally used for, but a full body. Of course the new brain wouldn't hold the old memories (memory doesn't seem to be linked to soul based on BJ's out-of-body experiences and Somber's OOC musings on reincarnation). And they destroyed that tree, so the new Blank would have to come from... I dunno, Discord himself?

Well she was kissed by Discord so you never know.

Moodyman90 wrote:Well she was kissed by Discord so you never know.

IIRC, Blackjack was kissed by Discord, not Boo

That's what I meant. Since she was kissed by Discord maybe that'll come with some perk or something good later on.

Sorry I should have clarified I had jumped from Boo to Blackjack on that train of logic.

Moodyman90 wrote:As far as Boo and souls go, I have the theory that at the end of PH, if Blackjack's body is too thrashed to repair itself any more, then Boo will be used to give Blackjack another chance to live. Probably with a lot of protest that they can't do that to her, especially from Blackjack herself, but Boo will do or maybe even say something to have them do it.
That or Blackjack's soul is pulled away from her body yet again and finds it's way into Boo's rather then her own because it just can't be used anymore.

That's just my theories though, and kinda hope they end up being way off the mark.

I'm thinking kinda the same thing, only I'm guessing Boo's tiny spark of a microsoul ends up sharing the body with Blackjack, the same way Blackjack is hosting piece of Psalm right now.

Sindri wrote:Boo is best Boo.

I certainly like to think so.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote::( That's good art of a sad Boo, and it touches on a very
controversial topic - sexuality of people with some level of mental
handicap. It's less present in the original PH scene, since we don't
have access to whatever thoughts Boo might be having, and it's cool to
see it brought up. Cool, but very sad.

Thank you, OAC. Well... it seems to be a far more controversial topic than I thought it was, lol. Honestly I was just thinking about it from Boo's viewpoint: Blackjack's been gone from so long, and now that she's finally back, she's been spending almost all the time with this other pony, and from the sounds of it, enjoying herself a whole lot.
I'd actually had a more cheerful way of answering those questions in mind, but going for a more emotional picture just seemed proper. I'm sorry it had to be so sad.

Caoimhe wrote:I was likening it to when I first read the conversation
as humourous, showing more of Glory's ignorance of stable sexuality.
Then it started feeling creepy, akin to bestiality. We don't know what's
going on in Boo's noggin so it's all in all very strange (though I hope
nothing happens).

Maybe I'm just too simpleminded, I didn't get a bestiality feeling from it at all, nor a pedophilia feeling as swicked suggests. *shrugs*
Of course, the Boo on my tumblr is not canon Boo, so the things going on in her mind probably aren't what's really going on in the story at all.

Well, I'm glad I could give you all something interesting to discuss.

swicked wrote:I was going to say there's no chance someone would have a child with such a creepy, sexist chauvinist, but I could totally see him indulging in date rape while he worked on completing his sex bot.
I mean, we've seen nothing that could ever indicate he could act like a decent person for more than a minute at a time. He likes who he is way too much to pretend to be otherwise.

Well, I'm sure he could be a decent and loving mate... right up until something shiny caught his attention. Remember that we're seeing him twenty-some years after Echo's birth. Judging by Horse's apparent age, I'd think Echo was the result of a college fling or something of that nature. He could have been a very different person back then. Not different enough, granted.

swicked wrote:I just think there might be something to Echo somehow having Goldenblood's genetics.
WHY does Echo end up in EC-1101? Someone once pointed out that, if you move the dash a little, you get EC1-101. I still don't know if that's supposed to be a hint within the fic, or just to us.

I was the one who pointed that out, but I honestly think it's just a coincidence. If it's not, then Somber is some kind of hyperintelligent cyborg autho-droid.

Why did he end up in EC? Good question. I don't think he's eager to share the answer. But I think his status as a Marauder would have more to do with it than his parentage. Like he said, he was party to just about every terrible secret of Hoofington. He didn't blow the whistle, but he could have -- and that might be reason enough for someone to convince him to volunteer for this procedure.

swicked wrote:I don't know. Just... something.

This. So much this.

skibadaa wrote:Even taking into account BJ's more liberal moral position on sex, that position still operates on the founding principle that the sex must be consensual. Boo is (currently) incapable of giving consent, last I checked BJ was no rapist. On top of that I'm also pretty sure incest wasn't ok in the stable 99 moral code, considering there is ample evidence that BJ has a mother-daughter relationship with Boo, consciously or unconsciously on her part. Bottom line: Blackjack will not fuck Boo. No way, no how, not in a million years...... touchwood

Yeah, that's pretty much my view. Her reaction pretty clearly indicated she hadn't even considered such a thing until Glory brought it up.

Exodus Hero wrote:Probably brought up before, but likely before my time. Anyway, I was wonder if anyone thought that Boo would be used as a place to store a soul. (This being under the assumption that Boo, of course, does not have a soul of her own and is relying on baser instincts to survive). In which case, The Dealer, or one of Rampages souls, or even a part of Unity would try and use Boo as a medium to become their own pony. I would like to here your guy's opinion on it.

I'm ambivalent about it. I have a sneaking suspicion that Boo picked up a soul somehow, given the capacity she's shown for learning and feeling. She has that apparent precognition, too. My feeling is that something makes her very different from a truly "blank" Blank. Is it a week or two of survival really enough to impart instincts on level with a highly intelligent animal? I rather doubt it. And I think it may be tough to tell the difference between a "normal animal" in MLP like Winona or Angel and a newborn, but she seems so eager to learn -- she picked up the basic function of firearms within seconds and had enough understanding and presence of mind to use one to protect Blackjack. I know people who wouldn't pull that off.

One has to wonder how diligent Flim and Flam were in determining whether a Blank ever obtained a soul. If it were one in a thousand, would they ever notice? Time will tell, I guess. I wonder how long it'll be until BJ tries out her memory-diving spell on Boo...

Just had a nasty thought. We've kind of assumed Boo just didn't eat until BJ found her, but what if she followed along after the Fatties to scavenge? Boo might have the Cannibal perk and we don't even know it...

SilentCarto wrote:

swicked wrote:I was going to say there's no chance someone would have a child with such a creepy, sexist chauvinist, but I could totally see him indulging in date rape while he worked on completing his sex bot.
I mean, we've seen nothing that could ever indicate he could act like a decent person for more than a minute at a time. He likes who he is way too much to pretend to be otherwise.

Well, I'm sure he could be a decent and loving mate... right up until something shiny caught his attention. Remember that we're seeing him twenty-some years after Echo's birth. Judging by Horse's apparent age, I'd think Echo was the result of a college fling or something of that nature. He could have been a very different person back then. Not different enough, granted.

Agreed. He's the type who can be charming when he wants to, until he moves on to a new interest or gets his sex-bot finished. He's sleazy, but not unattractive and Echo did specify that his mother wanted to forget her past mistakes...

Exodus Hero wrote:Probably brought up before, but likely before my time. Anyway, I was wonder if anyone thought that Boo would be used as a place to store a soul...

I'm agnostic on it. I have a sneaking suspicion that Boo picked up a soul somehow, given the capacity she's shown for learning and feeling. She has that apparent precognition, too. My feeling is that something makes her very different from a truly "blank" Blank. Is it a week or two of survival really enough to impart instincts on level with a highly intelligent animal? I rather doubt it. And I think it may be tough to tell the difference between a "normal animal" in MLP like Winona or Angel and a newborn, but she seems so eager to learn -- she picked up the basic function of firearms within seconds and had enough understanding and presence of mind to use one to protect Blackjack. I know people who wouldn't pull that off.

I think you mean ambivalent, as Boo isn't a deity, but yeah.

One has to wonder how diligent Flim and Flam were in determining whether a Blank ever obtained a soul. If it were one in a thousand, would they ever notice? Time will tell, I guess. I wonder how long it'll be until BJ tries out her memory-diving spell on Boo...

Flim and Flam weren't the ones who'd check for that. They didn't even know if souls existed, and certainly had no use for them. Goldenblood was the one who said Blanks didn't have souls, and I think we can trust him on that point because if he had a source for thousands of free, inexperienced souls that nobody would miss and would never rebel against him, he'd damn well have used it instead of violent prisoners.

Sindri wrote:I think you mean ambivalent, as Boo isn't a deity, but yeah.

I DID WRITE AMBIVALENT WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

Sindri wrote:Flim and Flam weren't the ones who'd check for that. They didn't even know if souls existed, and certainly had no use for them. Goldenblood was the one who said Blanks didn't have souls, and I think we can trust him on that point because if he had a source for thousands of free, inexperienced souls that nobody would miss and would never rebel against him, he'd damn well have used it instead of violent prisoners.

I'm saying that those who operated Project Chimera probably didn't do due diligence to make sure every blank came out soulless every time.

SilentCarto wrote:

Sindri wrote:Flim and Flam weren't the ones who'd check for that. They didn't even know if souls existed, and certainly had no use for them. Goldenblood was the one who said Blanks didn't have souls, and I think we can trust him on that point because if he had a source for thousands of free, inexperienced souls that nobody would miss and would never rebel against him, he'd damn well have used it instead of violent prisoners.

I'm saying that those who operated Project Chimera probably didn't do due diligence to make sure every blank came out soulless every time.

Yeah, but Goldenblood isn't one to slack off or dismiss things. Even if one in ten thousand blanks came out with a soul, that would be an invaluable resource to him. No more problems with excessively violent or mentally scarred souls messing up the jars or their wielders. No more covering his tracks and abducting ponies from prison systems. Just free, blank, innocent, untraceable materials for all his Black needs. That kind of an incentive, combined with his normal fastidiousness, would lead to much more careful checking than any normal sense of morality would, and he'd only turn the tree over to Flim and Flam for their petty little organ harvests once his hopes for ultimate cosmic power free souls were fully crushed.