Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by SilentCarto Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:07 pm

Cptadder wrote:The key turning point in my head is simple, did Cogs MAKE Dawn try and kill Sky Striker. Or alternatively did Dawn try and kill Sky Striker on her own. If the first that Cogs tried to make Dawn kill Sky Striker then he should die as this is narrative thing to do in keeping track of everything that has gone before in Project Horizon. If on the other hand Dawn tried to kill him herself then obvious she should fail. If she is being setting up for the tragic fall of the high idealist then being forced to kill her husband is breaking her will. Cogs has ensured there is no going back by making her slay her lover. On the flip side if she's trying to do it herself then she has to fail because she's again falling, not only did she try and kill Striker she failed to do so. Thus he knows his wife is willing to kill him and that will break his heart.

FYI if this were FoE I'd argue the exact same thing but reversed. Project Horizon is always about the most depressing of all possible outcomes.

Thoughts?

I think she willingly decided that Love is a Weakness.

O. Hinds wrote:Ah, I've been assuming that it's not an issue of the channels being restricted but of them having been blown to bits.

Yeah, I'd tend to assume the same, except that 1) Cog has fairly far-reaching control over Hoofington when she exerts it, and 2) the EBS system still works, at least, and it has enough data capacity to remote-control other stations.

by Moodyman90 Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:43 pm

If I may throw in my two bits, what I got out of the story was that Dawn, for at least a brief moment that was nanoseconds too long for Cog, had been taken over in an attempt to kill Sky Striker. If not to eliminate the weakness in her pawn, then to make sure she can't return to the life she had before.

That's what I got out of it. I could have misread.

by CannonFodder Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:03 pm

Cptadder wrote:

Ehh not quite, you have to stab pretty far into a pony to hit the intestines and your not remembering the stab wounds correctly.

To quote
Her hooves split as mechanical fingers erupted from the disintegrating flesh of her fetlocks, each digit tipped in a long black talon surrounded by a sickly jade aura. She plunged the curved blades into his back, slicing through his black power armor as if it was butter.

He had healing potions in his body within seconds but he was not stabbed front to back but rather direct down into his back and the healing potions were not doing much. He might be crippled, bleeding to death but he did not get directly hit in any vitals. What he got was a ten foot fall after getting a backstab with something along the lines of a sword.

Oh my bad. I thought she stabbed forward not down.

Yeah, that doesn't sound very fatal unless she stabbed his heart or arteries, and if he was he would have been dead in seconds. He's going to lose a lung definitely. Even if he was stabbed with a anti-healing magic blade they could just stem the bleeding by cauterizing the wound. A doctor would to have to have gotten their degree out of a cereal box to not go, "hmm healing magic isn't working and he's bleeding out no matter what we do to try and stop it, we're going to have to cauterize the wounds to stop the bleeding".

In that case he's going to lose a lung. Maybe a couple ribs when they have to cauterize(I love that word) the stab punctures and then cut around the dead tissue for his body to heal properly.

The problem with "anti-healing magic" is that it can be treated the same way we treat gangrene, just cut around the dead tissue and plug the hole metaphorically speaking.

by O. Hinds Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:30 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:Ah, I've been assuming that it's not an issue of the channels being restricted but of them having been blown to bits.
Yeah, I'd tend to assume the same, except that 1) Cog has fairly far-reaching control over Hoofington when she exerts it, and 2) the EBS system still works, at least, and it has enough data capacity to remote-control other stations.

The Hoof quite possibly has some sort of local network, but that's a good point about the EBS; I was forgetting the possibility that it could run both ways.

by OneMoreDaySK Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:14 am

SilentCarto wrote:
OneMoreDaySK wrote:But at least she'd have her family with her to support and be supported by. Just ditching them for some potential savior of the wasteland is stupid. Leaving meant that Sky Striker had to take care of all the kids by himself, as well as whatever fallout would occur with the Enclave. Thankfully he seems to have managed well. She seems to do that. Can't handle stress of the Hoofington six? <i>Run away with Striker.</i> Can't handle the Enclave? <i>Run away to find heroes.</i> Is that a pattern yet, or is it too soon to call?
I don't disagree that she has a history of fleeing from her problems, but you don't seem to accept that she was on the verge of getting herself executed. She could either keep talking about helping the surface and get herself executed, shut up and abandon her quest forever, or leave. She left. I'm not saying it was the only choice or the best possible choice, but it's one I could see Blackjack making, so I'm not prepared to denounce her for that.

She's done plenty for me to denounce since then.

I don't see why she needs to abandon her quest forever if she shut up for a bit. Or maybe try subtly influencing the Enclave towards the VC program, like what her husband did. Apparently all or nothing is what many prominent pegasi do. Rainbow Dash, Calamity, Dawn. Sometimes I think Glory's hatred for Calamity was a redirect from her mom. I honestly don't know what Blackjack would've done were she in that position, but at least I'd think she'd at this point communicate with spouse on need to leave, and possibly somehow keep in contact. Nope, Dawn just one day up and left. No message, no goodbyes. Seriously, one day you're in school and you go home and your mom's not there anymore. The things that does to one's psyche. Ugh. I'm extremely biased towards kids, and that's probably why Boing affected me so much.

by nebulous Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:31 am

I would really prefer that Dawn mauled Sky Striker acting with her own free will. It really built her up as a villain for me, rather than just showing that (surprise!) some AI in the Core is evil. For similar reasons, I prefer to think that Luna became Nightmare Moon on her own initiative, instead of just being possessed by a separate entity--which turns her whole fall and redemption story into an effort to drive away a random demon from nowhere.

by SilentCarto Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:00 pm

nebulous wrote:I would really prefer that Dawn mauled Sky Striker acting with her own free will. It really built her up as a villain for me, rather than just showing that (surprise!) some AI in the Core is evil. For similar reasons, I prefer to think that Luna became Nightmare Moon on her own initiative, instead of just being possessed by a separate entity--which turns her whole fall and redemption story into an effort to drive away a random demon from nowhere.

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 9 Mlfw2089-7U2uJ

by Caoimhe Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:38 pm

I came up with this theory in the shower (where all great ideas are born) that the reason TV pony is so happy most of the time is due to the fact that by nature all ponies and other beings are inherently good and evil is literally dark invisible magic that exists on some sort of other plane in the "air."

Celestia had theoretically blocked "evil" from existing in greater Equestria via the main control system: the EoH. Traces of it do exist in the open lands and places such as the Everfree Forest. This also explains why ponies live in (for the most part) isolated settlements. Ponies and beings that are the most varied, like Diamond Dogs, Gilda and Trixie come from some of these outlying areas where the effect of Celestia's blocking spell has less of an effect and so are more "grey."

Nightmare Moon was the result of Luna being overexposed to "evil" and, being a Greater Being, it corrupted her in overly disastrous ways.

Discord was a being that was corrupted. Perhaps his origin is the result of magical birth defects and having a similar exposure to evil, but the balance is all wrong, making him the Loki-like demon he is.

Now we have the events leading to FoE: protection from the evil is weakening and simply, free will is returning to the land. Celestia simply can't handle her secret failure and is one of the reasons for her abdication. Then we have balefire bombs and evil is merged for good into everything and evil has evolved into physical manifestations of disease and every living being now has the poison of evil attached to them.

Lets assume that Goldenblood somehow is the only one that knows of Celestia's original method of expelling and blocking evil: the only way to purge it and restore the balance is therefore to kill fucking everything and leave nothing for evil to use as a host.

Simply, evil is a virus that can't be destroyed, only contained and free will is only a result of infection because ponies are built by design to be good.

So all in all, Pony is the goal of Scientology and FoE is what happens when you allow operating thetans to go unchecked. I'm also drunk as fuck.

by Admiral Stoic Rum Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:07 am

Can I have some of that stuff you're smoking cao?

its already explained that discord is just disharmony... a spirit meant to disrupt the true heavenly chorus. the eater of souls was the one piece of darkness that forced its song its harmony into one single note. One note cannot make a song

by OneMoreDaySK Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:26 am

Caoimhe wrote:I came up with this theory in the shower (where all great ideas are born) that the reason TV pony is so happy most of the time is due to the fact that by nature all ponies and other beings are inherently good and evil is literally dark invisible magic that exists on some sort of other plane in the "air."

Celestia had theoretically blocked "evil" from existing in greater Equestria via the main control system: the EoH. Traces of it do exist in the open lands and places such as the Everfree Forest. This also explains why ponies live in (for the most part) isolated settlements. Ponies and beings that are the most varied, like Diamond Dogs, Gilda and Trixie come from some of these outlying areas where the effect of Celestia's blocking spell has less of an effect and so are more "grey."

Nightmare Moon was the result of Luna being overexposed to "evil" and, being a Greater Being, it corrupted her in overly disastrous ways.

Discord was a being that was corrupted. Perhaps his origin is the result of magical birth defects and having a similar exposure to evil, but the balance is all wrong, making him the Loki-like demon he is.

Now we have the events leading to FoE: protection from the evil is weakening and simply, free will is returning to the land. Celestia simply can't handle her secret failure and is one of the reasons for her abdication. Then we have balefire bombs and evil is merged for good into everything and evil has evolved into physical manifestations of disease and every living being now has the poison of evil attached to them.

Lets assume that Goldenblood somehow is the only one that knows of Celestia's original method of expelling and blocking evil: the only way to purge it and restore the balance is therefore to kill fucking everything and leave nothing for evil to use as a host.

Simply, evil is a virus that can't be destroyed, only contained and free will is only a result of infection because ponies are built by design to be good.

So all in all, Pony is the goal of Scientology and FoE is what happens when you allow operating thetans to go unchecked. I'm also drunk as fuck.

What you're talking about reminds me of <a href=http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/09/story-upheaval-breaking-point.html>this fanfic</a> based off the synopsis. I haven't read this particular one though.

@Nebulous
Irregardless of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it. So methinks she's mentally shut down to any attempts at redemption at the moment.

by Meleagridis Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:43 pm

@Cogs v. Dawn

Everyone is looking at this based on the impact to Dawn, what Dawn would do, how it would affect Dawn... very valid, yes, and needs to be discussed. But there is still another player here, invading what (maybe) ought to be Dawn's moment. In all honesty, this seems to me to be nothing more than the latest in a string of hilarious failures brought on Cognitum by its own inability to wait. I don't think Cogs was programmed with patience in mind. Maybe it's just crazy, but the vibe I've been getting is of someone with poor people skills and a very desperate need to have something RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND. I imagine Cogs running around in the systems it can access, upturning metaphorical tables and throwing open dressers and cursing. Lots of cursing.

And pre-change Dawn sitting calmly in the background.

by Luminous Lead Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:36 pm

Horizons came back in a big way this chapter. Both the story and the prevalence of the program itself.

by Kattlarv Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:44 pm

Right, finally catching up on all these threads.

@Somber: (Feedback thanks) It was quite cheesy, but it didn't go too over the edge.

As for Glory, going with her prior erection schedule, I actually have to say I'm unsure what she will go after. But going with how she got off on dead fillies, I would guess towards her wanted sex actually. Possibly "venting" out on BJ. Assuming she's allowed, being female and all.
And um... I didn't go "huh..." at all really. I mean, why WOULDN'T you want to be able to mind control some of the most deadly creatures in the entire wasteland? Would personally not say no to a deathclaw mind control ray in NV. That they managed to do it made me a bit "hum..." but why they'd want to? No, not at all really. (and O.Hinds quite well pointed out parts too)

Can't recall what that scale was, but meh. And to a degree, I think all get similar thoughts every once and again. Assuming they haven't been too indoctrinated and brain washed. But even then... we're humans, we ponder a lot. As said: No matter who, if you stand on a cliff with a baby, no matter who you are, 99 % chance is the thought "Wonder what happens if I throw the baby?" will occur in your head. But as I said in my ramble review: P-21 did a very poor job of not getting horny, or whatever his plan was. If it was the opposite, then he kind of succeeded.

And ofc not. Most wastelanders seem to lack common sense, logic or the ability to think constructively.

@EP: (Deus) Again, while he is quite interesting, I find quite a bit parts about him to be either silly, stupid or "meh" as they got no counterpart. (again: pretty much 70-95 % of Equestria and all characters were (and are) incompetent fucktards. And almost all that can do something, can do just one thing, nothing else. Also, seeing how his privates was the only thing keeping him "sane", anyone else ponder how he's going to act now? Seeing how his pain is at least gone. (no idea why Somber threw in that cybernetics apparently are excruciatingly painful)

(Sindri) Excuse me for asking but: Where is this based off? He very likely both killed and raped children. Since you know, he's male, and a rapist. In PH.

@Wave: (hellhounds) Tbh, I can see them doing a "Adam West Batman" with that. Though, a bit tricky with Somber. It's either Batman, some elaborate plan with bundles and clues that lead up to sense, or just some random shit that was thrown together last minute on a monday afternoon with little care. Since it totally makes sense as long as you know the entire story and stuff that has not been written yet. Or simply it being there for the sake of there being something there.

@Cao: (Dawn) It is possible she died a while back, and Cog just cloned her body, made a synthetic copy or as said: Found her, killed her and made her a puppet.

@Silent: (Pony gentics + Enclave + Glory) We've been over this before: They really have no genetics xD It seems to play a little role at times, but quite often it seems a bit randomized. But yes, that they all became female and looking alike is a bit odd... hum, her body could perhaps produce a SHITLOAD of female hormones, taking over the male ones if it's a male fetus xP Like how men exposed to that looks very feminine. Also, they totally fucked over the "x children" rule. Which imo, I can get to a degree of the "hurr, we're special..." but it still seems quite "meh" that "important" ponies would get to fuck around as much as they wanted with no regards to regulations. (or technically being douches "Ohoho, we're having more children, so several of you suckers will not be allowed to have as many, or any foals!" I guess they could take the "gay couples" children but...)

@Kipper: (Changelings) Somewhat random: But in my RPG, two of the three clans/tribes of changelings are "good" and try to get peace across the wastes, since the war thing is not making feeding easy at all.

@Wave: (lame running gag) Huh. If you mind me asking, you thought the "I changed my mind, kill him"overall implication part was funny yes? Not the mention of the terrible running gag?

@Swicked: (Glory, wet) No, I thought of that to. Then I trailed off thinking there are two meanings of that word, technically three, especially in said context xD

@EP: (Dawn) you know, the machine talk is reminding me an awful lot of Fallout Tactics.

(Applebot) The enclave plays a white deck, she and the terminal got hit by a [Dust to Dust].

(Killing joke) ... I just had a very immature vulva (labia to be specific) related mental image regarding Scotch and her "I've seen bigger" comment...

(Dawn) ... on regards of bad jokes, I expect Dawn to "clunk" her chest and go "I'm 40 % [insert word]" several times.

@Somber: (Grading) Sorry to hear that. Not sure why I bother mention, but eh.

Phew. Finally caught up on these. And I might should stop reviewing. Not doing that much in them tbh.

by **RoboRed** Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:56 pm

I forget, has this been posted here yet? I didn't see it in the PH art thread.

Spoiler:

by Vergil Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:06 pm

RoboRed wrote:I forget, has this been posted here yet? I didn't see it in the PH art thread.
Spoiler:

I think I posted it a little while back. Still worth reposting though, because seriously, what would she see?

by nebulous Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:24 pm

Her future Hoofington dream?

by Guest Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Recently, I was offered a kickass Boo-based bag by Ryx! It came in the mail, and I have finally gotten around to borrowing a camera to take photos. And it. Is. Awesome. The resolution on this bag may be higher than my screen's, and there's even Boo on the inside. Pictures do not do it justice. It's also a good bag in general, 'cos it's got loads of extra pockets. At the moment, it's serving the purpose of helping to bring LoL supplies for when various LoL players get together on my campus and play until they start falling asleep. Thanks again, Ryx, this thing is both sweet and useful!

Spoiler:

by OneMoreDaySK Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:23 pm

@OAC

by **RoboRed** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:42 pm

So much Boo!! Rainbow

by Cptadder Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:16 am

I don't know it could do with being boo shaped. But that is a lot of Boo.

by Vergil Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:44 am

Holy swarms of overpowering adorableness Batman!

by Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:46 am

That bag, is adorable. Best. Bag. Ever.

by tylertoon2 Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:46 am

OneMoreDaySK wrote:Eh, I really want him alive, yet crippled. Then we can explore interaction between the two some more. What's him being dead going to do to help the story along? More angst? He'd be buried(?) with honors, and the rest of the family will have more depressing mental burdens. Come on, I want to see some kind of father-in-law drama/silliness later on. I also want to see the power shift now that Sky Striker is essentially out of the picture for the Enclave, regardless of his status.

When you have to choose, do both or neither. I can get behind that.

by Admiral Stoic Rum Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:31 am

OneMoreDaySK wrote:

@Nebulous
Irregardless of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it. So methinks she's mentally shut down to any attempts at redemption at the moment.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:Irregardless of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:Irregardless of who made her attack Sky Striker,

OneMoreDaySK wrote:Irregardless

OneMoreDaySK wrote:Irregardless

WRONG!

You are wrong, sir. You are so very wrong I cannot begin to describe how wrong you are. That word is filthy. it is worse that the word cunt. Do you know whay? Because it is a double negative in the extreme. I have no idea why your spell check failed in this word, but I must point out It is wrong.

You have just said "Regard" or broken down, Ir- "not" -Regard- -less "Without"

meaning to break it down, you just said Not without Regard. so you said

Not without regard of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it.

You must mean without regard, or regardless

so you must mean
Regardless of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it.

I want to say moron, but I honestly can't. This word is a pet peeve.

and before you say it is... oxford says this: "Irregardless means the same as regardless, but the negative prefix ir- merely duplicates the suffix -less, and is unnecessary. The word dates back to the 19th century, but is regarded as incorrect in standard English."
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/irregardless

by **RoboRed** Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:47 am

*sits quietly in a dark corner of the room with a sad expression, a wilted grammarhammer in hand* But...but I'm supposed to be the Grammar Nazi...

On a side note, based on the discussions you guys have given, I'm starting to rethink my stance on "the real Dawn is dead".

by Kattlarv Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:00 pm

*Stretches and yawns* You know, sometimes I really wonder why I bother so much... recently read a thing that made me ponder more than usual... ah well, ~24 more days to see how things turn out.

by Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:54 pm

Kattlarv wrote:*Stretches and yawns* You know, sometimes I really wonder why I bother so much... recently read a thing that made me ponder more than usual... ah well, ~24 more days to see how things turn out.

:( You bother because you're human, and no matter how much we might want to give zero fucks, there will always be something that gets to us. And, ultimately, that's probably a good thing. Sure as heck is something I respect. Hope things turn out well, Kim.

by nebulous Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:25 pm

swicked wrote:This Dawn got cyberized after dying, much like Blackjack did, she's just got a much stronger goddess at the controls :P

This interests me. Is she really a stronger goddess? If so, by how much? Which would win in a one-on-one battle: Cognitum, or the Goddess? If the Goddess sent her forces to the Core, could she destroy Cognitum's hardware or would her forces be wiped out? What about Cognitum sending forces to Maripony?

by Luminous Lead Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:31 pm

nebulous wrote:
swicked wrote:This Dawn got cyberized after dying, much like Blackjack did, she's just got a much stronger goddess at the controls :P
This interests me. Is she really a stronger goddess? If so, by how much? Which would win in a one-on-one battle: Cognitum, or the Goddess? If the Goddess sent her forces to the Core, could she destroy Cognitum's hardware or would her forces be wiped out? What about Cognitum sending forces to Maripony?

The way the story is setting up, it seems it'll be out with the old, and in with the new. Trixie's waning and is soon to be bombed, while Cognitum's cult harbingers are becoming more prevalent and Coggy herself has revealed her champion.

If we're talking about battles between the two, it'd be high powered Alicorn forces vs well-equipped normals/cybers. An even match. What we're more likely to see is a battle between Blackjack and Dawn, respective champions of Trixie and Cogsy. And backing those two masters are likely Dis and EoS themselves. Mutation vs Entropy. Good times for equestria :D

by Kattlarv Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:08 pm

@OAC: Thanks. But I really gotta tone down on some places. Constantly running into retards with their white knights get annoying. They just whine and don't listen to logic or reasoning.
Also, in terms of this forum: I do facepalm every time people here trail off in one of the "ramblings", someone mentions something "vital", a key point or something overall interesting. Like, I can't recall when it was, but I recall 5+ times after one of those, someones mentions "Hey guys, what do you think about x?" when someone 1-2 pages back mentioned or went through x thoroughly. But everyone just trails off pondering. Either until they come up with something, or said person comes back and re-post and everyone goes all like "Woah! That's genius. Did you come up with that just now?/Did our discussion make you think of that?" or something like that. I also recall one time when during a... train or something discussion, someone did a "plot guess" that was spot on, and then one page later Somber did a "ha! I can't believe none of you have guessed this out yet. ... then there was some stuff, I recall they mentioned it again, then the new chapter came, they were correct, and about everyone was "flabbergasted" by the reveal. Trailing off here. But yeah... it would be neat if we trailed off less and got more discussion done. At least more through. I really preferred it when we were more ... "narrow"(?) about it. Sometimes feels more like some are having a "PM chat" in the forum or just goes to the latest page, or even just drops off their opinion, then Ctrl+F their name for replies. And dammit, I'm off the period, I should be less cranky xD

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