Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by Caoimhe Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:38 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Recently, I was offered a kickass Boo-based bag by Ryx! It came in the mail, and I have finally gotten around to borrowing a camera to take photos. And it. Is. Awesome. The resolution on this bag may be higher than my screen's, and there's even Boo on the inside. Pictures do not do it justice. It's also a good bag in general, 'cos it's got loads of extra pockets. At the moment, it's serving the purpose of helping to bring LoL supplies for when various LoL players get together on my campus and play until they start falling asleep. Thanks again, Ryx, this thing is both sweet and useful!
Spoiler:

Holy shit that is amazing. I would totally bring this to Whole Foods to claim the 'bring your own bag' discount. Sweetie Belle

by Meleagridis Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:34 pm

RoboRed wrote:On a side note, based on the discussions you guys have given, I'm starting to rethink my stance on "the real Dawn is dead".

In Project Horizons, death has a shitty bus schedule.
It won't show up until long after you wanted it.

nebulous wrote: What about Cognitum sending forces to Maripony?

We've got evidence that Cogs doesn't actually have any forces. There was reason to believe that every robot she controlled was a hostile takeover- she doesn't have any actual jurisdiction. And while Cogs has Dawn and Dawn has the Harbingers that doesn't mean Cogs has the Harbingers. I don't think Cogs is capable of such delicate people skills. Another reason why Dawn is most likely alive- the Harbingers would fall apart if Cogs had to lead them directly. Kill implants or no (and I doubt that they all have an implant anyway).

But then, that would fit perfectly into Cog's little Comedy of Blunders. Of course she killed the only one capable of managing the competent army- otherwise something might have gone right for once!

by CannonFodder Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:53 pm

Meleagridis wrote:
RoboRed wrote:On a side note, based on the discussions you guys have given, I'm starting to rethink my stance on "the real Dawn is dead".
In Project Horizons, death has a shitty bus schedule.
It won't show up until long after you wanted it.

*cough hack cough* Pink Eye's where Death goes "whoops my bad" to puppysmiles and pretty much admits he's terribad at his job *cough hack cough*
*cough* ghouls *cough*
*cough* necromancy *cough*
*cough* the black book *cough*
*cough* rampage's immortality *cough*
*cough* soul jars *cough*

Hmm cough hack I had something in my throat
*cough* If I had a cap for every time death in fallout equestria he didn't do his job right I'd be rich *cough*

by Admiral Stoic Rum Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:50 am

RoboRed wrote:*sits quietly in a dark corner of the room with a sad expression, a wilted grammarhammer in hand* But...but I'm supposed to be the Grammar Nazi...

On a side note, based on the discussions you guys have given, I'm starting to rethink my stance on "the real Dawn is dead".

Am I in your spot?

Also this happens to be a pet peeve which screams ignorance. I couldn't leave it alone.

by Ketchup Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:20 am

Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:
RoboRed wrote:*sits quietly in a dark corner of the room with a sad expression, a wilted grammarhammer in hand* But...but I'm supposed to be the Grammar Nazi...

On a side note, based on the discussions you guys have given, I'm starting to rethink my stance on "the real Dawn is dead".

Am I in your spot?

Also this happens to be a pet peeve which screams ignorance. I couldn't leave it alone.

From the chat thread:

Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:
No he isn't... the all powerful don't need armies.... also Avada Kedavra...

There you have it... space marines are anatomically Impossible... and their emporer is a lie... or just a corpse that they worship as an idea of an immortal all powerful being. Given that thought why allow free will for heretics then and not only that frost...

Citing TV tropes is like citing a Wikipedia Article you wrote...

Space Marines*, impossible*, Emperor*, article*, Frost*.

From your post regarding spelling and improper usage of irregardless(Which spellcheck says is correct but it says Canadian spellings like "colour" are not):

Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:
You are wrong, sir. You are so very wrong I cannot begin to describe how wrong you are. That word is filthy. it is worse that the word cunt. Do you know whay? Because it is a double negative in the extreme. I have no idea why your spell check failed in this word, but I must point out It is wrong.

You have just said "Regard" or broken down, Ir- "not" -Regard- -less "Without"

meaning to break it down, you just said Not without Regard. so you said

Not without regard of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it.

You must mean without regard, or regardless

so you must mean
Regardless of who made her attack Sky Striker, herself or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, she's going to feel plenty guilty about it.

I want to say moron, but I honestly can't. This word is a pet peeve.

and before you say it is... oxford says this: "Irregardless means the same as regardless, but the negative prefix ir- merely duplicates the suffix -less, and is unnecessary. The word dates back to the 19th century, but is regarded as incorrect in standard English."
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/irregardless

regard* multiple times, And*, It* several times, why*, not*, So*, Meaning*, Oxford*. Missing colons, periods, commas and quotation marks.
...
You are swinging with a sword with no handle, Rum. You made more mistakes than he did.

by OneMoreDaySK Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:37 am

Ketchup wrote:
Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:*Snip*
regard* multiple times, And*, It* several times, why*, not*, So*, Meaning*, Oxford*. Missing colons, periods, commas and quotation marks.
...
You are swinging with a sword with no handle, Rum. You made more mistakes than he did.

It seems that I've misunderestimated Rum's tolerance for cromulent words, and have made a ginormous issue of the matter. The word seems to be immensely grating to his ear. Regardless of the matter, we just need to chillax for a bit and not fly off the handle. Now excuse me while I try and desperately finish a project and a paper with no sleep.

Spoiler:

by Admiral Stoic Rum Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:42 am

What he said. That word is heresy.

by Ironmonger Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:49 am

Just gonna drop this one-liner here:
Deus doesn't tread...lightly.
...
...
Oh shut your face, that got some laughs over on Gdoc.

by CannonFodder Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Ironmonger wrote:Just gonna drop this one-liner here:
Deus doesn't tread...lightly.
...
...
Oh shut your face, that got some laughs over on Gdoc.

Deus should just give tanks he's still alive.

by **RoboRed** Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:25 pm

Ironmonger wrote:
Oh shut your face

'Kay.

Why do I think Dawn is dead? Too much sci-fi, an over-imaginative mind, and rampant speculation for a short explanation to the reasoning behind my answer.

She did mention that she went into the tunnels, prepared to die, when Cognitum found her. However, there's still a lot to be said there. Most of my idea hinges on that fact that Cognitum is the bad guy right now, and has VERY questionable motives, and a clear goal of "obtain EC-1101". What is it that Obi-Wan said once? "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." We just got told this story by someone who is the friggin' prophet of the Harbingers. Sure, it might be possible that Dawn was wasting away in the tunnels under Hoofington, when she was found by Congnitum and "healed". However, there's also the possibility that Cog just captured and killed her, downloaded her mind/memories, and used her or her likeness as a skin puppet for her own nefarious plans.

Right now, there's too many unknowns, doubts, and open possibilities for me to conclude that the thing that BJ & co. just interacted with is really Dawn, and not a bloodthirsty metallic copy driven by Cognitum's will.

Although, it would be so much more deliciously tragic if it indeed was Dawn - trapped within Cognitum's clutches and not entirely in control of her own actions. Tilt

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to watch that clip again a few more times - that sad piano music is boss.

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:18 pm

Okay, so :

1. Luna can come into ponies' dreams.

2. Your dreams tend to reflect the most intimate things about you, your deepest fears and hopes, and are a window on what really occupy a pony's spirit at a given time.

In the context of Fallout Equestria, this would tend to mean that she would have been theoretically able to spy on everypony's subconscious (everyone ?).

So, the question is :

1. Did she do it ? If not, why ?

2. If she did, how didn't she learn about GoldenBlood's plans until really late ? Did she abstain to monitor his dreams, or did GoldenBlood did something as drastic as removing his own ability to dream (through magic or SCIENCE!, or just forms of meditation/sleep deprivation) ?

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:35 pm

Edit : or maybe she had enough work monitoring the dreams of the enemies and traitors that she had no time to monitor the ones of her closest and most trusted friend ?

by nebulous Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:46 pm

Maybe the whole zebra coalition was on drugs to provide dreamless sleep cause Luna Lurks In Dreams, Natural Sleep Sends Our Ships To The Deep, etc.

And if there were ever any shortages in the drug... Is This Nap Really Necessary?

Or maybe any zebra could enter a trance and have dreamless sleep without any external help, cause of freaky zebra powers.

by Caoimhe Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:16 pm

So, I'm not fond of suddenly interjecting new show content into fics for the sake of it, but it would be BAD ASS (and appropriate) if Blackjack had a Lunavention from beyond the grave in her dreams, given the amount of fear she has to deal with and push down.

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:22 pm

I agree with you on the not shoving down new show content into ongoing fics unless it adds to them and isn't destructive/disruptive to the actual story being told.

As for Luna coming into BJ's dreams... I am truly uncertain.

On one hand, it has the potential to really cheapen a lot of things which happened in the story (like the point made about Luna being, you know, dead) ; but on the other hand, there's still doubts about Luna's final fate, and depending on who is the mysterious "WHO" inside the Necropolis... Well, depending on the exact circumstances of these lines of dialog it could fit perfectly.

by Caoimhe Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Indeed, concerning duality of the Goddesses, I think Luna fits well with Blackjack to Littlepip's Celestia 'relationship' considering how these stories fit together. I can see totally see a lot of Luna-related stuff playing out late in the story, especially with what we know about Psalm.

by Guest Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:26 pm

Alongside all this dream-peering, what do we know about the creation of memory spells? When did work commence? Because I could easily see Luna having a hoof in their production, if such a thing was possible, based on her ability to insert herself into dreams.

As for dream-peering in general, it's not clear how much influence she exerts; and it's not too much of a risk for spies and the like that she'd see something revealing from a dream, since dreams rarely are about things in reality (or, well, mine aren't - haven't made a study of it, so I could just be an exception). Also, it's possible that she just can't enter the minds of zebras, because they're not technically ponies or something. (I dunno, there's a lot of weird racial mind-linking magic in Equestria - Elements of Harmony, the Crystal Empire... it's no wonder that the Goddess could be formed, really) And as for Goldenblood, she might just abstain from looking in on his brain out of respect. Some things you just don't want to see your friends and colleagues doing, y'know? Plus, of course, Goldenblood could probably learn to block her out if necessary - safer would be to learn to control his dreams to remove anything incriminating, since a block might imply something to hide. (It also might be easier)

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:36 pm

I'm leaning toward the following hypothesis :

- Luna, as a pony Goddess, can only peer into pony dreams - the Goddesses seems to have a particular kind of... link with ponies.

- If she used her abilities for the War Effort, I'd be inclined to think she peered only in the minds of those she suspected of (high-)treason, given the kind of effort it'd take her : it's not just coming into their dreams, it's staying there long enough to "get" something interesting, and interpreting the raw content of someone else's subconscious.

- There's also a lot of wiggle room for someone to have treacherous dreams but be in fact one of your most faithful and dedicated ally. Luna is probably fully aware of that, which mean that even if she somehow peered inside Goldy's dreams, she wouldn't mind what she'd see.

- And finally, I'm inclined to think, given all the above, that she didn't monitor Goldenblood's dreams, and if she did, only a few times and didn't mind what she saw.

Though, from a thematic standpoint, I'd easily believe that Goldenblood would have taken some precautions so that he wouldn't be that easily "uncovered".

by SilentCarto Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:37 pm

Of course, Scootaloo could have simply dreamed an appropriate authority figure to tell her what she already knew... Luna

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:39 pm

Scootaloo as Joan of Arc.

"Burn the Witch !"

by SilentCarto Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:50 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Scootaloo as Joan of Arc.

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 10 Mlfw3048-AllMyBits

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:38 pm

I expect your first payment monday morning before midday.

by tylertoon2 Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:03 am

I'm guessing that we find out that Luna found out about everything by peering into Goldblood's dreams. Or he found a way to completely block her out.

by Ametros Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:48 am

I'm inclined to go with the train of thought that dreams weren't a viable method of rooting out heresy.

For one, we literally have no idea how Luna does it, nor the difficulty of it/focus required.

I postulate that she's quite likely just too busy to do such a task - especially when the Ministry Of Morale is around.

And of course what Silentcarto said - was it REALLY Luna, or merely Scootaloo's subconscious projecting her? While I'd bet it was actually Luna, we simply cannot know. There's far too little information present to support anything regarding this ability.

by CannonFodder Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:56 am

Or you could just not include the new canon into fanon. Canon doesn't automatically mean you have to rewrite fanon. Like how somber said he doesn't want to put changelings into project horizons, somber doesn't have to put luna's dream sharing ability in either.

by Icy Shake Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:18 am

CalamityWhen wrote:I'm inclined to go with the train of thought that dreams weren't a viable method of rooting out heresy.

For one, we literally have no idea how Luna does it, nor the difficulty of it/focus required.

I postulate that she's quite likely just too busy to do such a task - especially when the Ministry Of Morale is around.

And of course what Silentcarto said - was it REALLY Luna, or merely Scootaloo's subconscious projecting her? While I'd bet it was actually Luna, we simply cannot know. There's far too little information present to support anything regarding this ability.

We literally have no idea if PH-Luna--much less FoE-Luna--could see or interact with anyone's dreams. However, we can say that if Scootaloo merely dreamed her presence, then she also had at least one vivid, waking, auditory- and visual hallucination.

swicked wrote:
CannonFodder wrote:Or you could just not include the new canon into fanon. Canon doesn't automatically mean you have to rewrite fanon. Like how somber said he doesn't want to put changelings into project horizons, somber doesn't have to put luna's dream sharing ability in either.
...I really think he would, though, mention it at some point. He mentioned Cadence. Nothing integral, but Luna's ability obviously doesn't matter much in the "present", her being dead, and if she did it in the past it clearly didn't change the final outcome, so... yeah.

Incorporating new canon--to an extent--was practiced in FoE and has been in PH as well. Discord was included in FoE, I believe before appearing in Horizons, and of course there were Flim and Flam, and plenty of other cases, I'm sure. Generally, though, they haven't been major changes or required reworking stated continuity in the FoE-verse (the replacement of IMP (alone) as taint notwithstanding, and as Somber noted, that didn't entirely make sense in the first place). I'm inclined to think that, to whatever extent FoE/PH-Luna could enter the dreams of others, she was unable to affect the dream apart from herself, largely or entirely precluding its information-gathering utility (depending perhaps on certain other specifics, like capacity to change her form and voice--even adding that, she would likely have problems unless she already knew whom she would do well to imitate and had strong enough knowledge to pull the imitation off). Allowing a limited form of the new canon information in could be a nice differentiating factor between the two princesses--and perhaps could even be a basis for a differentiation between their respective schools, with Luna's focusing more on mental magic and Celestia's on physical--without giving her extra resources.

by Moodyman90 Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:27 am

As stated before, incorporating new canon has been in the original FoE and PH from the beginning. Of course not in massive rewrites, but usually in small references.

During my first read through of the stories it was always nice to read something that came from season two that obviously was never mentioned before.

But in the end, it's up to the author, Somber in this case, to decide what gets mentioned or not. From this past episode it could be Luna's dream abilities, or a memory orb from Scootaloo that mentioned the camping trip. Could be something as small as somebody telling a scary story and one from the episode is mentioned.

by SilentCarto Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:15 pm

CalamityWhen wrote:And of course what Silentcarto said - was it REALLY Luna, or merely Scootaloo's subconscious projecting her? While I'd bet it was actually Luna, we simply cannot know. There's far too little information present to support anything regarding this ability.

Well, we also don't really have any idea why she took such an interest in Scootaloo's mental health as opposed to any other filly in Equestria. As the editor for the Dresden Fillies stories by psychicscubadiver, I prefer to think that Luna just plain didn't tell Scootaloo that she was on the hunt for a rogue phobophage that had attached itself to the filly and was increasing the severity of her nightmares. But in order to destroy it safely, she had to get Scoots to shake off the basic fear it had latched onto, which is why she was giving her psychic advice even while awake.

by Moodyman90 Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:05 pm

I've been going with Luna can somehow detect if somepony is suffering from nightmares for more then one night which just so happened to be Scoots.

Only other option I see that goes with "it was actually Luna" is that she's keeping a close eye on Twilight and her friends, which of course includes the CMC.

by Kattlarv Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Again: Gee, thanks guys for spewing out spoilers, assuming everyone sat and could see the episode the direct second it aired, and also did this, thus making it totally legit to start talking all about the episode openly the first thing you do once you finished watching. Since hey! Who'd go to the forum before they watched the latest episode?

... also: *blinks a few times* I have no idea what just happened comment wise in this thread. But I might have a head-ache...

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