Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by Overthepacific Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:39 pm

Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:

So existential crises are not your forte?

Especially not in large repeated doses.

Meleagridis wrote:
Overthepacific wrote:Finely Aged Angst

I've
got my own opinions on that, opinions honestly swayed by yourself and
squeak, but if I may focus on something else for a moment? You've been
going at the angst for about 3 pages or so? I mean, there isn't anything
wrong with that, but watching the argument pass back and forth has been
like a neverending match of tennis. It's really only been the same
argument over and over and over. Funnily enough, you're suffering from
the same fault you're perceiving. I'm not asking you to drop it or
anything, but maybe wanna throw that on the backburner until either A)
you can describe it differently, hopefully helping the people already
involved to see this in a new light or B) wait until someone with a
fresh perspective comes by and replies to some of the pages of debate
that's already stacked up, bounce this off of new heads.

I know this is often easy to fall into in arguments. What happens a lot of the time is that people will bring up the same points, but not really get what they were trying to say through to the other person, so it comes up in different words instead.

I know I do it, I'm sorry if it gets a bit frustrating, thats just the way I'm used to arguing with multiple people at the same time. I'm really just trying to make sure everybody gets what I'm trying to say, but yeah, I can see the irony in the situation, so I'll try to stir it up a bit anyway.

by Overthepacific Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:51 pm

Derpmind wrote:
When I first started reading Project Horizons, I didn't expect anything except it being another Fallout: Equestria fic. Some of the very best literature I've read I consider 'realistic' not because they are scientifically-plausible, predictable or familiar. Rather, I say 'realistic' in the sense that basically it creates it's own reality. There is a believable and immersive world with characters that feel like real people. I get that the angst can be tiresome and bad character development after it going on for so many chapters, but the flipside of this is that to me it is a believable portrayal (still sometimes shockingly so) of depression. I like that even super-capable cyber-pony heroine Blackjack the awesome has to deal with the same extreme emotions and anti-self that I do/have. Sometimes shit happens that the only answer to is to keep asking questions. It's when you know all the answers and don't ask questions that you're really fucking yourself over.

So I originally responded to that with a joke and suddenly now I have some words to say, and right or wrong my belief is that if PH isn't realistic than what the fudge have I been reading all this time? Also note all the words I didn't include but could/should have, because I'm still generally terrible at this kinda stuff. If you get what I meant to say rather than just the lackluster puddle of words that I did say, then please pretend I'm that more capable person who said the former instead. My brain isn't as good at output as it is at input.

Well, I tried to joke back.

I dont think its realistic in the fact that it doesnt relate with our perception of human reality in too many ways, emotion and otherwise. Some parts are realistic in how some characters deal with things, but overall I dont think so.

But this isnt a bad thing. Reading stories about things we are already very familiar with, to me at least, isnt very entertaining. I want to lose my self in an alternate reality and see a different side of a new world when I read a story for that. Things could get as physically impossible as need be and still be entertaining, as long as its explainable in that realm. I like a lot of the stories that I do because they aren't realistic. Sure, I still need to relate to them on some level, but if you just read about the same kinds of characters in the same situations with the same conflicts over and over again, in a realm of your owns similar possibility, whats the fun in that?

And dont worry about not coming off as understandable. I'm not going to persecute you because I didnt properly get what you were trying to say, or that you spoke up in the first place. Have confidence in your own voice.

by Admiral Stoic Rum Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:03 pm

well, I don't hold it against you. I just find a correlation on it with say a soldier who had to be amputated or a person who develops something like tourettes...

by StoneSlinger88 Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:20 pm

Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:well, I don't hold it against you. I just find a correlation on it with say a soldier who had to be amputated or a person who develops something like tourettes...

Even then, PTSD is a very fickle thing.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:24 am

RE Goldenclones :

I was thinking... One of those "crystal" ponies from the OIA had already demonstrated her ability to change her appearance to some degrees (I think it was a Psalm Memory). You wouldn't have to go the changeling route to imagine that with that kind of abilities and a bit of memory mindfuckery they could have tried to pull something, blaming everything they could get away with on Goldenblood being some sort of unbelievably good chess-player.

The only question would be to know if Goldie was in on it, and if yes if it was his idea, and in this case what was his goal.

Still a crackpot theory with little to no basis in the text, but eh, let's have fun, shall we ?

by Guest Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:26 am

@Kipper
:( Sorry to hear you're hurting, mate. Seriously, we may disagree on some stuff of late, but I still reckon you as a friend and a damn decent person. Folks go through phases. I hope to hear from you again soon (and I look forward to that Let's Play).

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:31 am

...

If we imagine that Crystal Ponies, from the crystal empire, have a magic somehow based on light / illusion magic (they do look like they're made of crystal but somehow I doubt they're actually made of the stuff),

Maybe the "crystal" ponies from the OIA were actually Crystal Ponies, and they had to some extent powers of illusion similar to those of Changelings ?

How ironic would it be that Cadence ended up the Princess of a kingdom of pony-changelings ? Applebloom

by O. Hinds Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:16 am

I've no input on changelings or crystal ponies in PH; I'm running a headcanon discontinuity on the latter and, as far as I am publicly allowed to admit I know, the former don't exist in this universe.

by Aonee Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:51 pm

O. Hinds wrote: as far as I am publicly allowed to admit I know, the former don't exist in this universe.

Confirmed Glory, P-21, and Dues to be changelings.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:44 pm

PH was all a dream inside the head of Go Fish as she's in a coma after a terrible incident,

and at the end of the story she awaken in a perfectly fine and peaceful Equestria set 200 years after the Return of Nightmare Moon and her subsequent Redemption.

And everyone involved in the story was someone she knows - P-21 is her half-brother, Glory is her crush, Scotch is P-21 daughter, Rampage / Arloste is one of her teachers, as is Lacuna...

And as the dream's memory slowly start to fade away, she can't help but wonder,

Which is the dream, and which is real ?

Spoiler:

by Meleagridis Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:20 pm

Aonee wrote:
O. Hinds wrote: as far as I am publicly allowed to admit I know, the former don't exist in this universe.
Confirmed Glory, P-21, and Dues to be changelings.

No- P-21, Deus, Goldenblood... it's all an illusion. Real ponies playing parts to keep a fragile mind in tact.

Blackjack is the changeling.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:24 pm

But if they (edit : changelings) don't exist, then that means...

BJ don't exist

But then who's the narrator ?

Well, the narrator is no one else than

Spoiler:

by Moodyman90 Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:47 pm

All the while Boo just sit on top of her cake throne and laughs at us.

Well, at ya'll. I on the other hoof expect her assassins to attack soon for I suspect too much.

by Aonee Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:38 pm

Meleagridis wrote:
Aonee wrote:
O. Hinds wrote: as far as I am publicly allowed to admit I know, the former don't exist in this universe.
Confirmed Glory, P-21, and Dues to be changelings.
Blackjack is the changeling.

This idea intrigues me. I feel like we should discuss it.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:40 pm

BlackJack : ~~Friendship~~ Love is Magic

And now you know why she's so obsessed with rutting everything Applebloom

by Derpmind Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:01 pm

This ridiculous crackpot theory contest is going to end right now. My excavations have revealed the following ancient message. From last week. It's a comment posted below this essay: Permission to Fail.

Somber wrote:
Somber March 28, 2013 at 12:24 AM
I just don't want to disappoint my readers...

Project Horizons is oh my god bigger than anything should ever be. Really. When I started Horizons, I had an ending in mind, an antagonist, an idea of where to start, minimal understanding of the Fallout games, and FO:E. I ripped off FO:E because that's what I thought Fallout was all about: wandering around the wasteland with a vague idea of an over arching plot. I made more than a few mistakes along the way. Ideas that just seemed cool at the time (Like the Legate... sorry everyone) didn't always work out.

All I've ever wanted was a story that was okay. One where the reader didn't finish a chapter and regret investing the time and emotion into it. I know I'm a lousy writer. I hope for decent. Some folks like my story, which is good enough for me. But I know the story isn't perfect.

Recently, I had a shake up of editors because one believed the story was too bloated and needed things cut out. There's no question the story is too big. I shouldn't have included all the things I did. Maybe actually tried this planning thing much earlier. But the story is what it is. My editor wanted to make drastic revisions to cut down the size and improve the story. Things like removing a major character, in addition to entire factions. It was utterly impossible... it would have been better to start over Horizons from scratch!

Perfection is a dangerous trap. It becomes an excuse to give up. A reason to stop improving; you'll never reach it so why try? Better is obtainable. So that's what I always recommend to new writers: do better.

Blackjack's struggle to save Hoofington is the same struggle that Somber has with writing Project Horizons. Blackjack is Somber.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:12 pm

Blackjack is Somber.

You needed a year and a half to figure that one out ? :P

by Derpmind Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:04 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
Blackjack is Somber.
You needed a year and a half to figure that one out ? :P

I'm making a joke here that's been on everyone's mind for forever, but I found a way to make the joke work, and work better than anything you would have come up with.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:05 pm

True dat.

by Derpmind Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:10 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:True dat.

I feel compelled to respond to this post with only a single sentence. [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 908227573

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:22 pm

by Derpmind Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:42 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Try.

by Overthepacific Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Somber wrote:
Things like removing a major character, in addition to entire factions. It was utterly impossible... it would have been better to start over Horizons from scratch!

Perfection is a dangerous trap. It becomes an excuse to give up. A reason to stop improving; you'll never reach it so why try? Better is obtainable. So that's what I always recommend to new writers: do better.

I hate to be late as hell with this, but a large scale revision is the alternative to a complete rewrite. I mean just after 33, thats all that I think the story really needs.

And no one will ever attain perfection, but that isnt a problem. I wise man once told me that you could not attain excellence if you do not seek perfection. Always strive toward perfection, always, no matter what. You will never get there, but when you seek the best thing you can possibly get and fail, the end result will be a hell of a lot better than if you had just settled for better. Never settle for less when you couldve had the best.

Thats my week late two cents.

by Quotidian Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:02 pm

Derpmind wrote:This ridiculous crackpot theory contest is going to end right now.

Nope. NOPONY GETS OFF SOMBER'S WILD RIDE.

I'm calling it right now. Glory is her sled, Lacunae is her father, and P-21 was just her split personality the whole time.

Also Goldenblood killed Dumbledore.

by Overthepacific Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:08 pm

Quotidian wrote:
Also Goldenblood killed Dumbledore.

Goddamnit Quotidian, I haven't gotten that far yet.

by WavemasterRyx Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:03 pm

Quotidian wrote:
Derpmind wrote:This ridiculous crackpot theory contest is going to end right now.

Nope. NOPONY GETS OFF SOMBER'S WILD RIDE.

I'm calling it right now. Glory is her sled, Lacunae is her father, and P-21 was just her split personality the whole time.

Also Goldenblood killed Dumbledore.

You fiend!
Your punishment shall be swift and painful!

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 Tumblr_inline_mkr961oSxQ1r0tgmu

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 8 Tumblr_inline_mkr961oSxQ1r0tgmu

Suuuuuuuffer!

by Stringtheory Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:11 pm

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Quotidian wrote:
Derpmind wrote:This ridiculous crackpot theory contest is going to end right now.

Nope. NOPONY GETS OFF SOMBER'S WILD RIDE.

I'm calling it right now. Glory is her sled, Lacunae is her father, and P-21 was just her split personality the whole time.

Also Goldenblood killed Dumbledore.
You fiend!
Your punishment shall be swift and painful!

Suuuuuuuffer!

That's horrible! Death from adorableness is one of the worst ways to go, I've heard you get diabetes then suffer a heart attack.
BTW, what is that? boo as something...

by O. Hinds Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:11 pm

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Quotidian wrote:
Derpmind wrote:This ridiculous crackpot theory contest is going to end right now.

Nope. NOPONY GETS OFF SOMBER'S WILD RIDE.

I'm calling it right now. Glory is her sled, Lacunae is her father, and P-21 was just her split personality the whole time.

Also Goldenblood killed Dumbledore.
You fiend!
Your punishment shall be swift and painful!

Suuuuuuuffer!

Is that... What is that? Boo in the form of... flan, for some reason?
If so, congratulations; you've managed to make a dessert-pony hybrid cute.

by SilentCarto Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:48 pm

Train Dodger wrote:This essay sums up my opinion on that ridiculous label.

I will admit, Project Horizons does have some problems. Mostly superficial ones.

Dodger, I'm sorry if I bruised you from agreeing with this so hard.

by WavemasterRyx Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:48 pm

stringtheory wrote:That's horrible! Death from adorableness is one of the worst ways to go, I've heard you get diabetes then suffer a heart attack.
BTW, what is that? boo as something...

O. Hinds wrote:Is that... What is that? Boo in the form of... flan, for some reason?
If so, congratulations; you've managed to make a dessert-pony hybrid cute.

*giggles*

Ah yes, it is flan Boo, she gives you two types of diabetes. It was just so I could tell Meleagridis "Exactly as flanned." in response to a message on tumblr, heh.

And thank you, Hinds, I did try my best.

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