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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:22 pm

I'll tell folks in June. I have students who can read this board.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:49 pm

Somber wrote:I'll tell folks in June. I have students who can read this board.
...really?
Wow.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:57 pm

@Somber troubles:
All I can say is to take the story where you want it to go and how you want it to get there. If 4chan doesn't like it then they can stop reading it. You are capable of being a good writer, and some of us still think you are one, from what I gather. PH has been quite a ride for me, I can say that.

As for the employment troubles and the automobile accident, I can't offer anything but sympathies. I hope you will find the motivation to persevere, and not to give up.

O. Hinds wrote:
Ketchup wrote:Well yes, but I don't remember her being aligned with the zebras, but rather with Equestria, though my memory is faulty at best.
Not just any zony.
Somber wrote:“Your father is Doctor Propos at the Roam Academy of Sciences and a part of the Caesar’s cabinet.  Your mother is the aunt of a ministry mare.  The suspicions of the ministries are unfortunate but not unreasonable,” he said in his soft, raspy voice.  It made Silver Stripe lean towards him a little.  “However, I am not here on behalf of the ministries.  I am here looking to recruit you for an alternative program of my own.  And, I assure you, I could not care less about your lineage.”
WavemasterRyx wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
Somber wrote:Zony
Well yes, but I don't remember her being aligned with the zebras, but rather with Equestria, though my memory is faulty at best.
I could be remembering entirely wrong, but I thought she was involved with Fluttershy giving the megaspells to the zebra.
Well, at this point, you don't know that she was involved with any espionage. I know a bit more than nothing... but of course I can't tell you about that. :)
Ah, thank you. But that doesn't really tell us her loyalties, those are pretty strong ties to both parties. We don't know much yet, but I'm glad Zodiac might appear again.
But pretty much everyone does some form of espionage in PH, so it'd be unsurprising.
*insert ramble about re-reading the story here*
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vergil on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:33 pm

Pretty much everything Ketchup said is double for me. I'm too tired to write for myself today.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Downloaded Skill on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:11 pm

Somber wrote:I'll tell folks in June. I have students who can read this board.

So wait. Do your students know about this work? Are they lurking around here? It seems unlikely that any of your students would know about this board unless you told them what you do in your spare time, but I understand the secrecy.

While I wish there was more that I could do for you Somber the only things I can offer you are my sympathies and emotional support. I hope things get better for you soon.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overthepacific on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:47 pm

Somber wrote:Should have killed BJ on ch 33 and quit. Sounds like it would have been a better fic. Cause unless I kill off character like George R. Martin, it's just boring. So you want me to kill of characters. Fine. I'll start killing off characters.

I don't even know why the fuck I'm writing this any more.

Hey, let's not get irrational here. I understand a lot of complaints are coming in and causing undue stress, but in the end, that isn't what matters. This is your story, all of the complaints are here to try and suggest a better alternative to what they think is wrong with the story. It's there for you to consider it in the future writing process, not to bring you down.

You could cut it off at 33 and quit because some people want you to, if that's what you really want for the story. But giving up on it now after all of this, is that really what you want? I'm not saying to ignore those who think less of the story, but listen to them and really consider what they have to say, if you actually feel like you should change it, then change it.

I could go on six ways to sunday about how I think the story might be better, but when it comes down to actually writing this story, it's up to you, no one else is going to decide what to write for you. If everything gets to you and you feel like you really have to change the story, then you probably should. But if you this is what you really want for the story, the direction you want to take it, then fuck them, this is your story, not theirs. You can do whatever the hell you want with it as long as you are happy with it. They wont matter when you look back at the finished product and feel proud at what you've created.

Somber wrote:
Oh, and please tell them I was fired for the same reason PH sucks: I am as shitty a teacher as I am as shitty a writer.

Damn, need to work on that self confidence. You're a great writer,but everybody hits some speedbumps every now and then.You have one of the major FoE sidefics and a bunch of other six star stuff on eqd for a reason. I know everyone else here says it, but coming from a person who was on the side of the complaints, you are an amazing writer, even considering current events.

Somber wrote:
So please... just... stop. I can take being a
failure. My life is a practice in failure. I'm quite good at it. I
don't need it rubbed in my face by you and 4chan.

Failure is a more objective thing. Just think of this more as a learning experience.

Overall, if it's really getting that much stress to you. Maybe take a break for a little while? Write something else, get back down to your roots of what you used to write or read, or just get your mind off of it. Maybe taking time to really think about what you want wouldn't be such a bad thing. None of us would think less of you.

And I wish you luck with everything else too. I know how expensive a wreck can be. Really messes up the daily balance of things. I hope it all sorts out for you.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:38 pm

Meleagridis wrote:
The Holy Tuna wrote:
I was referring to Blackjack's fighting style in general, not that one instance, but I understand the confusion. Either way, you can't deny my point; since her upgrades, she's found that tanking damage and healing later is easier than planning strategically and executing surgically.

She's one of the monsters now. She's gone through what happens to heroes that survive- further and further away from human (er, pony) into something above it. Stonewing probably stopped any and all fancy flying tricks after he could soak up bullets like a tank. Doubt Doof remembered what cover meant when it basically amounted to 'his torso.'

Blackjack is now the same as a villain's brutish commander, one of the monstrous brutes that need to be conquered before getting to the evil mastermind. She is above and beyond the normal. In short: put past Blackjack anything you'd put past old Deus. Her challenges are more mental than physical now.

Least that's what I make of it.

This is all true. Crucially, it's the basis for much of the real conflict currently in PH—BJ's need not to become in mind and spirit what she already is in body, and what the zebras in particular expect her to be due to destiny.

Likewise, this colors her relationships with those around her via her friends' struggle to help her in that goal, even though it tends to come at the cost of great personal pain.

I think it's telling that Lucidity is often brought up as one of the best parts of post-33 PH, as it was probably the chapter that most focused on Blackjack's personal struggles, rather than the larger tasks placed before her (along with A Good Day, which in my opinion was also something of a high point). Of course, as Project Horizons is the story of Blackjack in the Hoofington wasteland, both need to be given their time, but I think it's key to remember the distinction between who Blackjack is and what Blackjack does.

Because I care more about the former (and in large part about the latter due to how it influences the former), I'm often more interested in Blackjack working with Rampage, helping P-21 and Scotch, being there for Glory, and whatever will happen with Lacunae than tension from battles. Bringing it back around to what you were saying, BJ the invincible Reaper/Maiden of destiny could allow more time to be spent on these issues, via less time needing to be expended on fight scenes—but would also inevitably impact how they are dealt with, how the respective others respond, etc. Which could be interesting in itself.

Meleagridis wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Oh, and I recall that one major criticism has been that since Blackjack's cyberization, she's gone much more brute force in her M.O., relying less on cleverness, sneakiness, and luck than before. What's a great way to reintroduce those elements? Put her up against someone she can't just overpower. Which just happened, twice, and should lead to some payoff along those lines soon.

Now there's nothing wrong with this (and it just happened, so I guess this paragraph will be moot but meh). Still, after all this hubbub about fights and tough BJ, I honestly wouldn't mind if nothing could physically stand in her way. PH has demonstrated time and time again that death is not the only consequence- and often not even the worst. If Blackjack could curbstomp everything from raiders to dragons then what would that mean for her?

I'm with you entirely. I think that it could be a far more dangerous situation, for both Blackjack and everyone else, than if she simply remained vulnerable to the physical hazards of the wasteland.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by hawkeye92 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:00 pm

I'd really not worry about what 4Chan is saying. It IS the internet hate machine after all. There's a real risk that if you take what they're saying to heart they'll just keep going to get another reaction and to see how far they can go.
The whole 'let's bitch about Project Horizons' thing is probably because people know its a good way to stir up a storm and get some free entertainment.
I agree with the sentiment that what they're suggesting would kill the story and to be honest a lot of the issues, especially the length, is mainly down to personal taste and the fact that people don't always realise that although something is long, if you stop enjoying it you can just stop reading, it's not like you've spent a fortune on the books. If you do enjoy it, there's more to enjoy.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overthepacific on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:09 pm

hawkeye92 wrote:I'd really not worry about what 4Chan is saying. It IS the internet hate machine after all. There's a real risk that if you take what they're saying to heart they'll just keep going to get another reaction and to see how far they can go.
The whole 'let's bitch about Project Horizons' thing is probably because people know its a good way to stir up a storm and get some free entertainment.
I agree with the sentiment that what they're suggesting would kill the story and to be honest a lot of the issues, especially the length, is mainly down to personal taste and the fact that people don't always realise that although something is long, if you stop enjoying it you can just stop reading, it's not like you've spent a fortune on the books. If you do enjoy it, there's more to enjoy.

So you just want people to read the million words of PH so far and then just stop? Do you have any idea how frustrating that would be? A lot of people who started voicing their complaints simply want to have the excitement in the story they once had, especially after dedicating so much time to reading it. Diving into an amazing story only to have it wane out into monotony is what they're concerned about, not just wanting to stir up shit.

Yes, many of the complaints are personal opinion, quality is too. Some people may think it's bad, others think it's perfect. That's what were here to talk about. You cant just talk about the great things about the story, you have to talk about what you didn't like either. Otherwise, no one is going to learn from anything, and nothing will get better for anyone.

It really irks me when people generalize about a whole group like that. Yes, some of them are just saying that to get a rise, and to simply hate because they can, but some of them have legitimate opinions of this and are just voicing their concerns. Disregarding them in their entirety because of a select few, or a bad reputation is just wrong. Just don't be so quick to judge, anyway.

But really, kippershy was the one who started it, and he really didn't relay anything from /mlp/, he just based an opinion off of a description from there. If you have a problem with it, you might be better off taking it up with him instead.


Last edited by Overthepacific on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:09 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
Meleagridis wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Oh, and I recall that one major criticism has been that since Blackjack's cyberization, she's gone much more brute force in her M.O., relying less on cleverness, sneakiness, and luck than before. What's a great way to reintroduce those elements? Put her up against someone she can't just overpower. Which just happened, twice, and should lead to some payoff along those lines soon.
Now there's nothing wrong with this (and it just happened, so I guess this paragraph will be moot but meh). Still, after all this hubbub about fights and tough BJ, I honestly wouldn't mind if nothing could physically stand in her way. PH has demonstrated time and time again that death is not the only consequence- and often not even the worst. If Blackjack could curbstomp everything from raiders to dragons then what would that mean for her?
I'm with you entirely. I think that it could be a far more dangerous situation, for both Blackjack and everyone else, than if she simply remained vulnerable to the physical hazards of the wasteland.
I too agree with this. Her body may not be in much danger from typical rigors of the wastes, but she is. Her mind and resolve are more vulnerable(and important) than her body is.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:38 pm

...the fuck has been going on here?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:39 pm

Caoimhe wrote:...the fuck has been going on here?
In two words: some shit.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:44 pm

Overthepacific wrote:
It really irks me when people generalize about a whole group like that. Yes, some of them are just saying that to get a rise, and to simply hate because they can, but some of them have legitimate opinions of this and are just voicing their concerns. Disregarding them in their entirety because of a select few, or a bad reputation is just wrong. Just don't be so quick to judge, anyway.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: If they want their opinions taken seriously, they'd post them somewhere that isn't "the internet hate machine" next to posts saying Somber should kill himself.

Sure, I bet I could make great intelligent posts about Project Horizons, but if I post them on a neo-nazi child molester message board, how the hell can I expect them to be taken seriously?

Anyone who can't see how posting on 4chan delegitimizes absolutely anything someone says is dumb as heck. "Whisper of protest in an angry mob," etc.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overthepacific on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:57 pm

Caoimhe wrote:
Overthepacific wrote:
It really irks me when people generalize about a whole group like that. Yes, some of them are just saying that to get a rise, and to simply hate because they can, but some of them have legitimate opinions of this and are just voicing their concerns. Disregarding them in their entirety because of a select few, or a bad reputation is just wrong. Just don't be so quick to judge, anyway.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: If they want their opinions taken seriously, they'd post them somewhere that isn't "the internet hate machine" next to posts saying Somber should kill himself.

Sure, I bet I could make great intelligent posts about Project Horizons, but if I post them on a neo-nazi child molester message board, how the hell can I expect them to be taken seriously?

Anyone who can't see how posting on 4chan delegitimizes absolutely anything someone says is dumb as heck. "Whisper of protest in an angry mob," etc.

Jesus, that is not even close to the truth. The shitposting in the FoE threads is usually never about PH and it is always the minority by a large margin. And a "neo-nazi child molester" board? /mlp/? Have you ever actually been there? It is a forum, just like this one, with honest opinions, just like this one. There may be a few more ridiculous unintelligible crap posts than here, but discrediting them because of a preconceived notion is just ignorant.

/mlp/ isn't /b/, not by a long shot. All this reverse hatred about their opinions and attempting to ignore it isn't going to get anyone anywhere. You can talk to them on that board the same you can here, but the only difference is they're more likely to tell you what they really think behind that anonymous tag. So I'll say again, disregarding them in their entirety because of a small minority of those you deem "neo-nazi child molesters" or because of a bad reputation is just wrong.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:03 pm

Can we just not talk about 4chan? At all? Please? This happens too often.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Moodyman90 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:14 pm

Ketchup wrote:Can we just not talk about 4chan? At all? Please? This happens too often.

I have to agree. Regardless of intentions, meanings, truths, and perceptions, the mentioning of that site has cause the derailing of this thread.

Can we agree that what is said on any part of 4chan, stays in that section of 4chan and not brought up here, and if anybody here really wants to see what's being said should just go there themselves?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overthepacific on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:29 pm

Ketchup wrote:Can we just not talk about 4chan? At all? Please? This happens too often.

Alright, alright. I just dont like it when people start stereotyping and throwing around 4chan as a means to discredit something. We need to argue about the point at hand, not its source.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:51 pm

Kippershy wrote:It's fucking stupidity, in my mind.


Somber wrote:I don't even know why the fuck I'm writing this any more.


Well... you know, if you're writing because you want popular acclaim, by all means, just do whatever will make people happy.
If you're writing for yourself, you've gotta decide which pieces of criticism to accept and which ones to reject. Just know that there are so many people reading who don't speak up, and you never hear their praise. Squeaky wheels and grease, and all that.

The Holy Tuna wrote:My suggestion? Rein back the epic battles and set pieces. Have Blackjack's repair talisman malfunction and have to deal with low power availability. Have Blackjack make a choice between EC-1101 and her friends with lasting consequence. Have her alone for a while, with all the relationship problems it will bring. Equally, ignore my ramblings, because I haven't had a lot of sleep.
Set pieces are what make for a good fight scene. Five badguys in a straight corridor without cover is pretty damn boring. And BJ just got back from a big, long loner mission, remember? She doesn't need more of that. She needs to repair the relationship problems she already has.

As for BJ's tactics, it may behoove us to remember she's been a Death Seeker ever since her resurrection. This was, in fact, addressed in-universe. Her tendency to charge into danger isn't a writing flaw, it's a character flaw.

Somber wrote:My problem right now is due to getting sick last sunday, mond, tues, finding out I am getting fired weds, finding out I owe taxes on thurdsay, getting a relapse of sick on friday, spending 6 hours fixing 54 saturday, and getting hit by a flat bed truck today and messing up my body and car today. I am more than a bit frazzled atm.
Celestia on a crutch! I... I got nothin'...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by The Holy Tuna on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:07 am

SilentCarto wrote:Set pieces are what make for a good fight scene. Five badguys in a straight corridor without cover is pretty damn boring. And BJ just got back from a big, long loner mission, remember? She doesn't need more of that. She needs to repair the relationship problems she already has.

As for BJ's tactics, it may behoove us to remember she's been a Death Seeker ever since her resurrection. This was, in fact, addressed in-universe. Her tendency to charge into danger isn't a writing flaw, it's a character flaw.

I'm not sure I articulated that correctly. I was referring more to the 'cartoonish' spectacles (a la, back-flipping up stairs to avoid MG fire and the like), and by 'tone down', I intended to say 'more strategy and tactical combat would be nice, instead of Blackjack absorbing bullets with her face'. The rest of your points are valid, though.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:36 am

O. Hinds wrote:Not just any zony.
Somber wrote:“Your father is Doctor Propos at the Roam Academy of Sciences and a part of the Caesar’s cabinet.  Your mother is the aunt of a ministry mare.  The suspicions of the ministries are unfortunate but not unreasonable,” he said in his soft, raspy voice.  It made Silver Stripe lean towards him a little.  “However, I am not here on behalf of the ministries.  I am here looking to recruit you for an alternative program of my own.  And, I assure you, I could not care less about your lineage.”
Holy... that one sure didn't sink in the first time around! Silver Stripe is the cousin of one of the Mane Six?! That is, the sister of one of their parents married a zebra?
...huh. I'm gonna have to process that one. The obvious candidate would be Fluttershy's aunt, since that would make a handy contact to pass information to. On the other hoof, Applejack has an awful lot of relatives to choose from. Pinkie and Rarity seem unlikely given their rural origins, but Dash's relatives are a complete unknown. So is Twilight's extended family, but we know Marigold was her cousin, so that's at least one aunt we can scratch off the list as definitely not being married to a zebra.

Caoimhe wrote:...the fuck has been going on here?
I love it when comments and avatars synchronize. Luna

The Holy Tuna wrote:I'm not sure I articulated that correctly. I was referring more to the 'cartoonish' spectacles (a la, back-flipping up stairs to avoid MG fire and the like), and by 'tone down', I intended to say 'more strategy and tactical combat would be nice, instead of Blackjack absorbing bullets with her face'. The rest of your points are valid, though.
I'll agree that she needs to relearn to be careful in combat, but I want to see it explicitly happen in the story, not just have BJ suddenly start to take cover and attack from ambush again.

I think I know what you mean about the backflipping and such, in that martial arts isn't really in BJ's wheelhouse, but I have to wonder if you'd have the same opinion of, say, BJ leaping between cars on a moving train, or fistfighting Nazis on the treads of a tank, or having a shootout while hanging from the antennas beneath Shadowbolt Tower. If you're only objecting to "cartoony" stuff like BJ's ultra flipping powers, okay, but unusual fights in exotic locations is kind of a thing.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by The Holy Tuna on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:04 am

SilentCarto wrote:I think I know what you mean about the backflipping and such, in that martial arts isn't really in BJ's wheelhouse, but I have to wonder if you'd have the same opinion of, say, BJ leaping between cars on a moving train, or fistfighting Nazis on the treads of a tank, or having a shootout while hanging from the antennas beneath Shadowbolt Tower. If you're only objecting to "cartoony" stuff like BJ's ultra flipping powers, okay, but unusual fights in exotic locations is kind of a thing.

Its not the acrobatics I have issue with, just how out-of-place it seems. Jumping between train cars and shootouts in awkward locations seem like something Blackjack would do (and has done, I believe), but incredible feats of acrobatics and Nazi battles on armour (unless she falls off at some stage, and the Nazis aren't trying to reincarnate a Hitler-Stalin hybrid) feel like they belong in an anime. Don't get me wrong, I love reading BJ's fights, but the suspension of disbelief is different when comparing something that develops organically (Blackjack walking, weight of Blackjack drops her through floor, Blackjack struggles to get out while fighting [insert enemy here]) to absurdity for the sake of it (Blackjack walking, suddenly Hitlerpony, Blackjack summons the Dragon).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Leoman on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:04 am

Hey, can anypony tell me what changed in chapter 54 this time? I don't really want to read it for the third time. Scootaloo

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by The Holy Tuna on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:09 am

Leoman wrote:Hey, can anypony tell me what changed in chapter 54 this time? I don't really want to read it for the third time. Scootaloo
The second change to the Legate battle was added not too long ago; dig back a few pages and you should find it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:50 am

SilentCarto wrote:
Kippershy wrote:It's fucking stupidity, in my mind.

Say or post what you want, I'm entitled to my own opinions regardless of how you perceive them.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Downloaded Skill on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:16 am

You're entirely within your rights to have your opinions Kipper, but if you're going to post criticism it still needs to be constructive and detailed. No one would be here if they didn't like the story on some level and the story isn't perfect, but criticism like that is not helpful to Somber at all and just comes off as a giant fuck you.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:11 pm

Spoiler:
A guy called Squeak posted this. Squeak is known for the amazing radio plays he's doing right now (FOE radio plays).
There's actually a thread for them here, though I don't think he himself is a member.

Before I post it, he also had this to say:

">>9545257
<blockquote class="postMessage" id="m9545388">
Well
I suppose so, though mind you it's got some errors here and there
because I typed it rather quickly and I don't tend to edit myself much
on imageboards. I'm not sure it would help, but you're welcome to.

>>9545336
Oh God, I hope this doesn't draw me much flack, I don't mean to start a war, I'm just stretching my inner English Major a bit."</blockquote>

Anyway...



Now of course with Blackjack this problem is turned up to 11. Her
character arc on killing almost peaks form the word go. She's killed
before the story ever started, More directly with P21's lover and indirectly with the 'Retirement' scenario.
She then is forced to kill again at the start of the story when raiders
invade. For BJ killing was always an option on the table, she's been
trained to deal with it, and lives in a world with other violent
females. She sees death on a regular basis, from accidents to escape
attempts. She's already kind of dealing with this when we come in, as
she thinks about where the food comes from. Her situation is wildly
different from Littlepips, thus her character arc should be different.
But the main problem is, it isn't. Somber kind of tries to follow the
same steps the original story took and it doesn't work as well.
Blackjack has a weapon from the word Go, she kills from the word Go, and
she is in no way the innocent stable dweller archetype. This is a
problem the story faces from page one, but one that can be overlooked
because Blackjack has not been presented with a crisis of character yet,
so the arc is still young. What should have happened in PH was that her
ultimate crisis of character on the issue of killing should have come
after Returning to Stable 99 to find it was now a raider camp, and the eventual gassing of everyone inside.
You can't get more of a crisis than that. That was an emotional peek,
you can't really top it from BJ's perspective. No matter who else dies
in the story, she has already faced the darkest personal possibility she
could. After this crisis she should have had a moment to come to terms
with what happened, and as referenced earlier, take her philosophy and
either validate it, or dump it and take up a new one, starting a new
arc. The problem with PH is, after facing her darkest possible outcome,
she remains the same, and that doesn't work.

Afterwards the story starts to meander, because BJ has reached her peek
not even half way through. You've explored BJ in totality and not given
it's not given closure. Therefore any character arcs along the same
lines can only be retreads, and retreads just don't work as far as story
goes. At this point, the only viable option would be a switch of POV,
which doens't ultimately make sense in this type of story, or having
Blackjack try to help someone else explore their character arc. Which PH
really doesn't do. It attempts to have a secondary character arc
involving how BJ deals with her sexual experiences and how they affect
the people around her. But again that has already peeked halfway through
the story. She facilitated rape, then ultimately gets raped. you
can't have a more cut and dry arc than that. But it's muddled by the
fact that it's mixed with the unfufilled arc of her attitude towards
killing. And ultimately by the time she comes to greet her rapist
a second time, this unfulfilled arc just tangles with the one we should
be going through and spoils what should've been its conclusion. And
even before that it was handled rather poorly Blackjack is presented
with a struggle after the incident, but the way she gets over it isn't
in any way satisfying or human (Well Equine...) if she wanted to get
through this arc, she should have gotten through it Glory, and then THAT
would have had problems because Glory ultimately has unfinished arcs as
well that would have muddied it further.

TL;DR
PH suffers
from the same problem as a lot of animes, setting up an arc, and then
not closing it for 400 episodes keeping the characters in purgatory.

And
mind you I'm saying all this as someone who still READS the bloody
thing. This is one of the main issues with cloudsdale, they cannot seem
to look at anything they enjoy under a critical light. "


---
I'd call that constructive. He explains where he feels it goes wrong and what he thinks should have been done.

I'm not doing this because I want to hurt anyone - I don't.
I'm not doing this because I want to cause trouble - I don't.
I'm doing it because it's criticism that otherwise isn't heard here, because it's stuff heard elsewhere plenty but never here, because it's a well made point, regardless of source.

I'm saying it because although I don't think what's already been done should change, I do think we should all put forth our true feelings at all times when on these matters to try help get the best possible outcome.

Is that selfish of me to try affect Sombers work for my own preferences? I don't care if it is or not, the way I see it, I'm giving him my opinion as he would have been asking of it if I had nothing but love to give in response, so, flip of a coin.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:18 pm

@Kipper
Do you think you have not been heard?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overthepacific on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:24 pm

Kippershy wrote:
This is one of the main issues with cloudsdale, they cannot seem
to look at anything they enjoy under a critical light. "

I'm doing it because it's criticism that otherwise isn't heard here, because it's stuff heard elsewhere plenty but never here, because it's a well made point, regardless of source.

>criticisms not heard here
>Implying I'm not doing anything

It's like nobody wants to play with me.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WavemasterRyx on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:26 pm

Kippershy wrote:Say or post what you want, I'm entitled to my own opinions regardless of how you perceive them.
---
I'm not doing this because I want to hurt anyone - I don't.
I'm not doing this because I want to cause trouble - I don't.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. What you are not entitled to is endangering Somber's health and well-being, or mine. You may not want to hurt anyone, or cause trouble, but that is exactly what you are doing. I have been badly hurt by all the trouble you are causing, and there is no way you can convince me that you any longer have Somber's or the story's best interests in mind.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Downloaded Skill on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:52 pm

Kippershy wrote:
snip

Now thats what I like to see, a well articulated point that people can discuss.

On a whole I'm inclined to agree with that guy. Seeing as how there are two main focuses of the story, the wasteland as whole and BJ's group. The state of the wasteland is in flux at the moment, which has reduced the focus on group development. I was really interested in seeing how Rampage would change after her revelation at Hightower or Lacunae with the dreams, mental connections, and the Goddess' demise rapidly approaching, but that seems to have fallen out of focus in light of recent events. I wouldn't say that BJ hasn't changed a lot post-33 though. She has calmed down a lot, become more reasonable and somewhat smarter if still lacking in sense. With recent developments though the focus is more on the wasteland than interpersonal interactions which I'm somewhat sad about. The interpersonal and introspection / philosophical moments were my favorite parts.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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