Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Frost]

To quote what I told Ty:

 My complaint isn't with big, dumb action scenes

 It's that these "action" scenes are so over-dramatized and "cinematic" that they completely detach the actions from any reason to care.

 "Oh, wow, Lord Crucian the Violator is marching out, eight feet tall and clad in four-hundred pounds of armor and wielding a seven-foot sword on fire. And literally no one cares. This isn't a threat. This fifteen year old girl will just turn into, like, fucking rose petals and dance around his sword, then hit him with her scythe right through his armor and instantly kill him"

all we've seen thus far is that any sort of tension, and sort of threat, any notion of the fact that anyone not a ludicrously-dressed teenage girl is capable of posing the danger that the narrative would have us believe is utterly crushed and swept aside in favor of OH WOW SHE'S SO COOL AND FUNNY SHE PUNCHED THAT BEAR BECAUSE OF HER FUCKING HAIR

[Guest]

Not that I don't think your complaints are valid. It's just that I don't see the distinction between that and this for instance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHSaLiUmR7g

[Guest]

To quote what I told Ty:

 My complaint isn't with big, dumb action scenes

 It's that these "action" scenes are so over-dramatized and "cinematic" that they completely detach the actions from any reason to care.

 "Oh, wow, Lord Crucian the Violator is marching out, eight feet tall and clad in four-hundred pounds of armor and wielding a seven-foot sword on fire. And literally no one cares. This isn't a threat. This fifteen year old girl will just turn into, like, fucking rose petals and dance around his sword, then hit him with her scythe right through his armor and instantly kill him"

all we've seen thus far is that any sort of tension, and sort of threat, any notion of the fact that anyone not a ludicrously-dressed teenage girl is capable of posing the danger that the narrative would have us believe is utterly crushed and swept aside in favor of OH WOW SHE'S SO COOL AND FUNNY SHE PUNCHED THAT BEAR BECAUSE OF HER FUCKING HAIR

I've got the same reaction to a lot of anime, which is sometimes really confusing because I love the hell out of stuff like Kill La Kill despite that being the absolute epitome of it. I think it's because the show bills itself as comedy from the start, THEN moves into dramatic stuff, rather than asking us to take it seriously from the get-go. It's a theory-in-progress.

[Frost]

Not that I don't think your complaints are valid. It's just that I don't see the distinction between that and this for instance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHSaLiUmR7g

You don't see the distinction between: 

Expendables: Baseline humans using real weapons within realistic levels of speed and strength and admittedly implausible but not unheard-of levels of skill and viciousness against a group of human opponents. The laws and rules of the situation are clear--if they're shot, they'll die. They cannot dodge bullets. They cannot just shoot fire from their hands or punch the truck fifty feet to take out all of their enemies or do a flying spinning roundhouse kick thirty feet through the air to take out the assault-rifle wielding man while avoiding his fire. Etcetera, etcetera, many, many etceteras.

RWBY:  a bunch of outright superhuman, physics-defying immortal wizards continue to bitch, argue, whine and generally be annoying even as they fly into the wilderness to punch wildlife. Without explanation or context, we're expected to feel some sort of tension as this blonde skank punches a demon-bear back fifty feet with no effort whatsoever. All notion of internal or external logic is discarded in favor neat-o scythe moves and underaged girls clad in ridiculous, skimpy outfits. Any sort of threat or tension in the fights, any sort of actual intensity or danger is cast aside to make room for "hilarious" jokes and "endearing" characters that seem to have been hand-picked from the utter dregs of the most unlikeable people on Earth.

Despite this, Expendables bills itself as a big, dumb popcorn flick, and you're invited to come along and have fun with the gunfights, explosions, and generally mundane warfare. RWBY bills as a drama-action-comedy that would seek to have the viewers entertained and enraptured by the fights that boil down to overblown fireworks displays--all flash, no substance, and completely foregone conclusions--between periods of "banter" and "comedy" that would make the Wayans brothers cringe.

[Guest]

Frost, I didn't at all say that movie was athe same as RWBY. It's not, I understand that fully, the subject matter is completely different.

Your example (I reccommend looking up the RWBY White Trailer, your example does exist) of a threat, a giant man clad in armor with a flaming sword is equivalent to two men one unarmed the other with throwing knives taking out what looked to be ten men with assault rifles. Where's the tension after that? If they're capable of that where is the threat?

The distinction appears to be subject matter alone. And if you don't like it fine, I'm not attempting to convince you otherwise. It's just that if that's the reason you dislike RWBY it's a reason to dislike the Expendables.

If you dislike the characters or subject matter that's completely different. I'm not gonna argue for them.

[Vinylshadow]

RWBY Dance Party:

Oh come on, ya gotta admit that's funny...

[Frost]

Your example (I recommend looking up the RWBY White Trailer, your example does exist) of a threat, a giant man clad in armor being with a flaming sword is equivalent to two men one unarmed the other with throwing knives taking out what looked to be ten men with assault rifles. Where's the tension after that? If they're capable of that where is the threat?

It's not a matter of being able to overcome superior odds. You'll notice that our mercenaries in that video used superior skill and surprising viciousness, in addition to their own weaponry and the weaponry of the enemy to take down several other ordinary, baseline humans--untrained third-world thugs, at that. The thugs are still shown to be a huge threat, and numerous times in their other fights the Expendables are wounded, beaten, pinned down, and nearly killed--actually killed, if you feel like counting the other films. They get by more on outside-the-box thinking and brutal, but believable methods of fighting. In the RWBY example, our rock-eating teenagers use abso-fucking-lutely ludicrous weapons to take down hordes of monsters that we're told are humanity's gravest threat, and they do it with no thought, no effort and no danger. In some cases, they can just stand there bickering while the monsters encircling them do.....nothing. With nary a word said on the subject to establish the internal logic by which the universe operates to make these things possible or establish limitations thereupon, the 'heroes' are seen leaping fifty feet, sending several-ton beasts flying with an effortless jab, and zipping around like a cat on crack while slaying their "enemies" in a few casual swipes of their ludicrous weapons.

The Expendables, similar to Cobalt's example, are outright conceived to pay homage to classic action heroes by straining the bounds of what humans are capable of, while not blatantly being superhuman--an Expendable may be able to beat down three men in hand to hand combat. He will not send them flying thirty feet with one punch. The cast of RWBY outright defy any sort of explanation, give no indication that this 'fight' is anything short of a massecre, suffer no danger and are above not only their foes, but also the meanest of lip-service paid toward reality as we understand it--and these scenes are still to be considered exciting, because the end result is a lot of bright, sparkly magical lights and crudely-animated, scantily-clad teenagers flying around and notionally looking visually striking.

[Vinylshadow]

Volume 2's animation is a lot better

Live and learn, I guess

Red like Roses
Fills my dreams
And brings me to the place you rest

White is Cold
And always yearning
Burdened by the royal test

Black the Beast
Descends from shadows

Yellow Beauty burns gold

[Frost]

It's not a matter of subject matter. I like fantasy. It's probably one of my more favored genres; between it and Sci-Fi. I'd be just as dismissive and critical of a show wherein the Expendables could fly in on a space-travelling superjet and shoot everyone from three miles away with their pistols before charging through artillery and machine gun fire to crush their remaining resistance with their bare hands before remarking that that was a particularly tough and dangerous fight.

Fiction doesn't have to be utterly realistic. It's fiction. I'm saying that shows like RWBY utterly strip the circumstances of any reason to give a flying fuck what happens--not only for the unlikable characters, but because the results are foregone. The main characters won't suffer a scratch, and they certainly won't be wounded or killed, while they effortlessly, though flashily, massacre their opponents.

[Guest]

Are you arguing that a fantasy setting is not realistic?

And again Frost I'm not arguing they are the same, they are not I understand. What I am saying is that the threat in that scene is equivalent to the threats in RWBY and are dispatched just as easily.

On a realism note is penetrating a skull with a throwing knife even possible? Or a spine. That's what appears to have happened. I'm genuinely asking, I know you're a fan of historical weapons. So you might know.

[Guest]

That was a response your first post. I didn't read the second before I posted, it didn't show up in the new post thing. Just Vinyl's did for some reason.

[Frost]

Are you arguing that a fantasy setting is not realistic?

And again Frost I'm not arguing they are the same, they are not I understand. What I am saying is that the threat in that scene is equivalent to the threats in RWBY and are dispatched just as easily.

On a realism note is a penetrating a skull with a throwing knife even possible? Or a spine. That's what appears to have happened. I'm genuinely asking, I know you're a fan of historical weapons. So you might know.

My message above was intended as a corollary to my previous point, but it's rather fitting here.

I would disagree on the note that the threats are equivalent and dispatched with equal ease. Not only on a practical level, but on a presentation-based one--the Expendables, billed as nigh-superhuman badass action heroes in a film intended to be light, fluffy, popcorn-action uberviolence, clearly exert a good deal of effort and nearly die facing their ten men armed with rifles. The RWBYians or whatever, billed as young, inexperienced children in a series intended to be comedically-supported action-drama-fantasy, mow through thirty shadow-monsters with no effort and no sense of danger. Every move is perfect, every blow lethal, every enemy dealt with without a problem. The presentation aspect, I think, is the more important of the twofold issue.

Realism note: Knife didn't hit the spine. Hit between it and the shoulderblade, from what I could see. As for the skull--hitting a weak point on the skull's surface with a very, very sharp blade of hardened steel (There are knives on the market that can stab through sheet metal and rock without damage) thrown point-blank from a guy as ripped as Jason Statham--it's not likely, but it's possible.

[Vinylshadow]

Hm...makes me wonder if Frosty's read any of Mercedes Lackey's Heralds of Valdemar series or Elemental Masters series...

She's hands-down one of my favorite fantasy authors

[Guest]

In that scene no one but the protagonist fires a shot, they never come close to death. The world saves them from it by making the enemy stay their fingers. I think that a lot of the threat you're percieving comes from the fact you live in an identical world, you know what a bullet will do to someone. You know what being stabbed and beaten will do to someone.

I get the feeling you'd say something similar about Madoka Magika until one of the main characters gets their head bitten off. I will agree with you though, it does not appear that's the case in RWBY, I don't think anyone will ever be seriously injured or killed.

On your point of the shadows not being a threat I'd ask you to consider a zombie apocalypse setting. No singular zombie is ever a threat it's in their number and the ability to replenish it that the threat lies.

The fact they kill so many of these things and they're still around has to clue you in to population sizes.

Here's what I think of RWBY just to put it out there. It's dumb, but not in any different of a way that a lot of action movies are. This is not any dumber than let's say Transformers or the A-team where they fire that tank and destroy helicopters while they are falling to earth.

[Frost]

In that scene no one but the protagonist fires a shot, they never come close to death. The world saves them from it by making the enemy stay their fingers. I think that a lot of the threat you're percieving comes from the fact you live in an identical world, you know what a bullet will do to someone. You know what being stabbed and beaten will do to someone.

The chaotic, intense nature of the fight kept the--as mentioned--untrained and inexperienced thugs on their heels while the protagonists kept too close to the thugs' allies to actually fire off a shot. Most people fail to realize the power of shock and awe--be it in the form of a bigass bomb or a hyper-aggressive combatant--in keeping someone from mounting an effective offense. Armed and fortified positions have been known to break down in panic upon seeing bayonet charges coming at them.

I get the feeling you'd say something similar about Madoka Magika until one of the main characters gets their head bitten off. I will agree with you though, it does not appear that's the case in RWBY, I don't think anyone will ever be seriously injured or killed.

On your point of the shadows not being a threat I'd ask you to consider a zombie apocalypse setting. No singular zombie is ever a threat it's in their number and the ability to replenish it that the threat lies.

The fact they kill so many of these things and they're still around has to clue you in to population sizes.

That's little comfort, considering that, in any number where these monsters can reasonably be found to gather, they're not a threat in the slightest. There may be five billion wolves out in the woods (Somehow. Not exactly a lot of fucking massive tracts of uncharted forest around nowadays) but if our heroes only ever encounter them in, like, groups of thirty (wherein they can all be slaughtered) it's a moot fucking point. That's sort of like saying that, because there are trillions of insects on the Earth the gathered might of which could devour you in agony and terror, stepping on a roach or spraying out a beehive is an act of great courage as you take on an innumerable horde.

[Vinylshadow]

One of these days, I want to see a movie that actually follows the laws of physics when buildings are falling down and the main characters are in the middle of it...

They're freakin' dead, end of movie

Meanwhile Sora fights 1000 Heartless single-handedly...

[Tytan]

I feel like this could be someones new icon.:

[Stringtheory]

I feel like this could be someones new icon.:

I'd say swicked, but I'm not sure if he likes Pinkamena.

[Guest]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think I just don't care that much, at it's core RWBY is a show where girls beat up monsters and I don't expect anything else from it. It's dumb entertainment, I think similarly Expendables at it's core is a movie where men kill bad guys. Dumb entertainment just the same.

[Frost]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think I just don't care that much, at it's core RWBY is a show where girls beat up monsters and I don't expect anything else from it. It's dumb entertainment, I think similarly Expendables at it's core is a movie where men kill bad guys. Dumb entertainment just the same.

My argument wasn't that Expendables wasn't dumb, it was that RWBY was so dumb it didn't constitute entertainment, while a lot of people are trying to claim it as more than just dumb entertainment. But, yes, it seems we'll have to agree to disagree

[Frost]

Perhaps I'm giving them too much credit by proxy, since Terry Crews managed to be pretty funny in his appearance in White Chicks. That was more due to the fact that Terry Crews has a surprising amount of comedic ability than any effort of the brothers, though.

[Frost]

Ah, so you've actually watched them. Entire movies, in fact.
I can't even stand stills of white chicks.

I do have a masochistic streak in several forms, yes.

[Frost]

Well, one can hardly be criticizing and judging movies they've never seen, can one? Between the factors of 'It's 4pm on a Saturday and there's nothing else on', 'I need to see this dumb shit for myself', and 'it's like a train wreck; I can't look away', one can find oneself having just burned a few hours of one's life watching White Chicks instead of doing anything productive.

[Stringtheory]

Obligatory clip:
https://youtu.be/SWynPcFRzWU?t=7m48s
(Embbed videos don't like preset times for some reason)

[Frost]

Obligatory clip:
https://youtu.be/SWynPcFRzWU?t=7m48s
(Embbed videos don't like preset times for some reason)

You cannot imagine the grin on my face when I saw Episode 5 for the first time a few days ago.

[Stringtheory]

Obligatory clip:
https://youtu.be/SWynPcFRzWU?t=7m48s
(Embbed videos don't like preset times for some reason)

You cannot imagine the grin on my face when I saw Episode 5 for the first time a few days ago.

Eh, it wasn't as good as previous episodes, mostly because of the lack of Alucard.

[Frost]

But all that Anderson and Integra, man.

[Stringtheory]

But all that Anderson and Integra, man.

Definitely not enough Anderson to make up for the lack of Alucard.

[Tytan]

But all that Anderson and Integra, man.

Definitely not enough Anderson to make up for the lack of Alucard.

It actually might have been to much integra.

[Frost]

But one has to admit the introduction of Anderson's "Sidekicks" makes up for a lot:

"And that's Heinkel; She shoots stuff, it's great!"
"Pop, pop, watchin' heathens drop."

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