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Worm Discussion Thread

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Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:27 pm

So, since it seems like most of the people in the Chat thread are either reading Worm or plan on doing so, and since Worm is a story that just begs for speculation and discussion, this thread now exists.

SPOILER TAG YOUR POSTS


Worm is a long-ass story (like, Project Horizons long) that's packed to the brim with twists and turns. Please don't be that guy. Tag your posts with the relevant arc number at least, chapter number if you can manage it. Maybe we can dispense with this when enough of us finish the story, but since it seems that most everyone is just starting out, we're gonna tag this shit.

Original story can be found here.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:23 pm

interlude 3 1/2:
There's definitely a trend here with superheroes being assholes. I think so far the wards are the only ones that aren't jerks.

The ABB who even Taylor knows are forcing members of the asian community to be a part of their gang are having their members limbs snapped by Kayden for information.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:03 pm

Last wrote:
interlude 3 1/2:
There's definitely a trend here with superheroes being assholes. I think so far the wards are the only ones that aren't jerks.

The ABB who even Taylor knows are forcing members of the asian community to be a part of their gang are having their members limbs snapped by Kayden for information.
Ditto:
I think a large part of the whole "superheroes being assholes" thing is partially that the world is such that the ruthless tend to survive longer and move farther among both heroes and villains. Also, it is important to remember that as sympathetic and usually nice as the Undersiders are, they are major criminals who have done some... highly questionable acts in the past. They're very shades of gray, which doesn't synergize well with the black-and-white mindset of most heroes.

That said, yeah, a lot of them tend to be assholes.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Stringtheory on Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:34 pm

Last wrote:
interlude 3 1/2:
There's definitely a trend here with superheroes being assholes. I think so far the wards are the only ones that aren't jerks.

The ABB who even Taylor knows are forcing members of the asian community to be a part of their gang are having their members limbs snapped by Kayden for information.
Minor Spoiler:
Also, Kayden isn't really a 'good guy'...
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:05 pm

Having just finished Interlude 3, I really wish I had more to contribute to this story than just gushing incoherently over it, but that's the point I"m at. I absolutely love the fact that lower-profile, team-synergized powers have, so far, consistently beaten the piss out of big, flashy "fuck you up" powers. I love how ominous Grue's appearance and powers are, even though Brian's the nicest guy on the Undersiders (from what I've seen thus far) And I love how even Hellhound/Bitch's powers, the most directly hard-hitting "fuck you up" powers, are still indirect and more subtle than just being able to, say, turn into a giant wolf or something.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:48 am

Scienza wrote:
Ditto:
I think a large part of the whole "superheroes being assholes" thing is partially that the world is such that the ruthless tend to survive longer and move farther among both heroes and villains. Also, it is important to remember that as sympathetic and usually nice as the Undersiders are, they are major criminals who have done some... highly questionable acts in the past. They're very shades of gray, which doesn't synergize well with the black-and-white mindset of most heroes.

That said, yeah, a lot of them tend to be assholes.

Spoiler:
Maybe I'll start seeing them in a different light when I know more about them. So far with the exception of Rachel they seem just like teenagers who've been taken in by someone with money and power.

They have robbed a bank and taken people hostage, certainly not good but... It's not personal I guess is the way I'd put it. The undersiders weren't faced with it as much as the torture that two of the super heroes that were confirmed to engage in it were.

@stringtheory:
She might not be one of the good guys but she seems to think she is. Kayden talks about making a difference.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Stringtheory on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:26 am

Last wrote:
@stringtheory:
She might not be one of the good guys but she seems to think she is. Kayden talks about making a difference.
Spoilers that are obvious:
Ha Ha HA, you do know what Empire Eighty Eight is, right? (Hint: her cape name should be an obvious indicator: Purity (at least in retrospective))
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:33 am

@stringtheory directly from interlude three and a half:


Max wrote:"You left my team to do good work. It's pure coincidence that it's black, brown or yellow criminals you target"

Kayden wrote:"Hard to avoid when the only notable gang of whites is yours. Some of my old allies and friends still work for you... I can't go around attacking them can I?"

Kayden later goes on to say this.

Kayden wrote: "Sure the whites had criminals too, but at least they were fucking civilised about it."

I know what Empire Eight Eight is Stringtheory, It's a white supremacist gang. And I'm not going to argue that Kayden isn't a racist, she is one and she associates with them. But there are levels, Kayden from what the story has presented to me of her doesn't seem like she's trying to cleanse the world of minorities.

Again no argument from me she's racist, she is. But based on the evidence I've been given she doesn't seem like the cross burning type. That type of racist I'd think wouldn't try and rationalize or deny their racism. Especially not in the presence of that type of racist.

So far her goals have been to get rid of the ABB, who up to the point I've reached have set off bombs all over the city killing multiple people and forcing anyone with Asian heritage to join their ranks. That doesn't justify toturing those gangmembers, but ridding the city of the ABB is a goal a superhero would have.  

Max will undoubtedly at some point make her do something that will make her a villian to me. But right now she's a superhero a racist superhero but a superhero.

Just to be extra clear I am in no way arguing that Kayden is not a racist. What I am arguing is whether or not she's a villian right now. Not at the end of the story, not in a few chapters from now, right now based on what I know of her. That last quote I gave of hers is I think messed up, but I'm not discerning villian from hero based on thoughts. I'm doing it via actions and intent of actions. She's an asshole absolutely but based on her actions (attacking the ABB) and her intent (to rid Brockton Bay of the ABB) she's a superhero.

4.11 whiplash:
This chapter is way more calm and relaxed then the previous. Really sweet at the end to see Taylor's dad give her that smile, great dad, he's just happy that Taylor's got other people to look out for her. Seemed a little worried about the older guy hanging out with her, but not really unexpected.

I can't see Taylor betraying these guys after this chapter. Unless Brian and Lisa do a heel face and their personalities change completely. I don't see that happening.

Luckily for Taylor this situation seems temporary. Brian is the group's leader, when he's done I imagine the rest with the exception of Rachel will be too, and his goal doesn't imply at least not to me that this job is one he'll have forever.

Unless Aisha is killed...

Unrelated but Lisa I'm betting is the other murderer in their ranks. Regent with what he said about that guy melting seems too obvious. Brian too, he's earned his knowledge through experience. It feels too easy to draw the conclusion that he killed someone starting out.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:02 pm

As flexible as their powers are now that I know why Brian's made the choice to be a villian I feel less sure of why he did. His powers seem well suited to body guard work, he already has a training routine, he's a fairly large guy and he knows enough about fighting to stand his own against most people.

You might be able to argue that powers make you a target, but I don't see why Brian couldn't wear a costume as a body guard. It's hard not imagine him excelling in that field of work.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:32 pm

Remember that, during his trigger event, he went "cold" rather than flipping out and getting enraged or emotional. Trigger events, like all extremely stressful events, tend to reveal the "real you", like the difference between someone freezing up or fighting back when you draw a knife on them, for instance. So Brian/Grue, for instance, is, underneath all the friendly, genial demeanor, a cold, ruthless individual who defends himself and his own and has little consideration for anything else.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:48 pm

Huh, honestly I hadn't thought of that, good point. Guess he inherited a bit of his dad after all a bit like Taylor in that way.


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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:43 pm

Interlude 6, goddamn

Spoiler:
So Taylor has finally stopped deluding herself that she's going to rat out the Undersiders to the Protectorate, so I'm looking forward to how her increasingly confident (and a bit ruthless) character plays out from now on. We've finally glimpsed the inside of the Birdcage, and it doesn't look look like Bakuda's going to be escape number 1, no thanks to Lung.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:47 pm

5.2:
That Rachel scene... Maybe this is a bit tinfoil hat but I have this sneaking suspicion that if there is a leader to the undersiders there's two not one.

I've got this feeling that Grue's usually kind demeanor may be an act, One that Tattletale has told him to use because it's the best way to handle Skitter.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:47 pm

5.9:
Damn Skitter, I'm not sure if it's worse that you didn't feel anything when gouging Lung's eyes out, in your defense he doesn't like a human at the moment so maybe that has something to do with it, or that you don't know why Sundancer doesn't want your help at the moment.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Stringtheory on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:33 am

Watching you guys progress through the early arcs and reading your thoughts about them makes me chuckle inside.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:21 am

6.3:

Mrs.handerson wrote:...and you can tell me about the area and nearby schools.

Well given the Empire Eighty Eight tags scattered around I'd say you're fucked... Wait what? The case worker is more concerned about the decor? Whatever Brian said to ease her concerns on that front he probably should keep it in mind, I'd be surprised if it's not brought up in the custody case.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:11 pm

6.8:
There are sayings that cover Coil and his offers especially the ones he made to Rachel and Taylor. Primarily "If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is" and for Coil himself "A tiger's smile is only friendly when it's teeth are full". I don't like it, smells fishy.

Also now that Taylor is 25,000 dollars richer is no one suspicous she hasn't spent any of her money? Even Brian who's saving has spent some of his. 15$ dollar coffees and I'd bet most of the stuff in the loft's living room was either bought by him or Lisa. Rachel and Alec don't seem the type.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:38 pm

interlude 6:
Well, I can't say Lung was a good man before and also can't say I feel bad for Bakuda.

Canary though, this sucks. She definitely deserved to be punished, just because something is an accident doesn't make it not happen, just not to this extent.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:06 pm

Last wrote:
interlude 6:
Well, I can't say Lung was a good man before and also can't say I feel bad for Bakuda.

Canary though, this sucks. She definitely deserved to be punished, just because something is an accident doesn't make it not happen, just not to this extent.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about Canary. The problem is that despite the Protectorate and the PRT, this is a world whose legal systems really aren't suited for dealing with superpowers. The only way they deal with dangerous capes is the Birdcage, which is... acceptable for people like Marquis and Acidbath, but considerably less so when it means that people like Canary are trapped in the Birdcage with monsters like Bakuda. So, while she shouldn't have gotten away without any kind of punishment, she certainly didn't deserve to go there for the sake of setting a precedent, especially because the question of her responsibility is so incredibly murky.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:23 pm

Also, I know that this is way farther than where it seems everyone else is at, but I can't contain it. Sorry for double post, I'm just trying to quarantine the spoilers for the farther section.
 
Escalation Station, what's your revelation? (29.9) :

Holy shit. The escalation is escalating at an accelerating rate, to the point where I'm feel like I'm riding a roller coaster of violence and mind-blow beginning (and probably ending with) Scion. There's some horrifying parallelism as Scion gains more and more humanity (the dark, monstrous part, at least) as Taylor progressively loses hers. The stakes are high, everything's gone to shit, and I have no idea what the story's going to to do next.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:37 pm

Thoughts as of 9.5:
I love how absolutely human all these characters are, despite their, sometimes, godlike power. Armsmaster was blinded by ego and ambition, Grue and Skitter are both driven apart by differing ideals, miscommunications, and secrets, and even Coil, whose power gives him an effective "do-over" on every decision he makes, makes an overeager, ambitious mistake that complicates things for the Undersiders. 

There's also a lot to be said over the sheer creativity of the characters. The normal "flying, super strength, SuperSpeed, ect" setup is comparatively rare--you've instead got a woman who turns dogs into monsters, a man who can fractally conjure metal, a man who can spawn his metal innards into a giant wolf....the list goes on and on. Hell, even characters' motivations are unique--Miss Militia's on a mission from God, of sorts; Kaiser is an Aryan Supremacist; most "heroes" are just anonymous; powered government employees; ect.

I'm also wondering if we'll see more of the Endbringers or their motivations. I'm curious as to if Leviathan was killed by Scion, as I missed it if that was ever explicitly stated. Hell, I get the impression that it'd be back either way. 

I also foresee Coil, even if he successfully takes over Brockton Bay, indulging himself too far in his "one little vice", or being forced to stick with the reality he indulged it in, or finding a useful person being dead in one universe after he'd already killed the other, depriving him of a resource--it's just going to end badly, I'm seeing.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:02 pm

Scienza wrote:
Last wrote:
interlude 6:
Well, I can't say Lung was a good man before and also can't say I feel bad for Bakuda.

Canary though, this sucks. She definitely deserved to be punished, just because something is an accident doesn't make it not happen, just not to this extent.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about Canary. The problem is that despite the Protectorate and the PRT, this is a world whose legal systems really aren't suited for dealing with superpowers. The only way they deal with dangerous capes is the Birdcage, which is... acceptable for people like Marquis and Acidbath, but considerably less so when it means that people like Canary are trapped in the Birdcage with monsters like Bakuda. So, while she shouldn't have gotten away without any kind of punishment, she certainly didn't deserve to go there for the sake of setting a precedent, especially because the question of her responsibility is so incredibly murky.

Spoiler:
Canary without a doubt had an unfair trial, but I'd have even more doubts that the man was lying. That is if my assumption on what happened was correct, her ex would have to be mentally ill to do something like that without someone else's influence. As terrible as Canary's lawer was I would hope he/she would investigate that.

Still Canary doesn't belong there, the three strike rule while clearly not perfect, Lisa said herself that super villians often escape from not birdcage prisons, seems to work well enough. Canary, though I know little about her, doesn't seem like the kinda person who would risk going there even if she got an extensive sentence to some other prison by making the attempt.

In fact speaking of Lisa she's mentioned the game that Supervillians and Heroes play. Now that I think of it I can't help but wonder if Canary's sentence was a result of her being rogue, that if she had been involved in the game that she would have gotten a sentence that gave her an oppurtunity to rejoin it.


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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:32 pm

Last wrote:
Scienza wrote:
Last wrote:
interlude 6:
Well, I can't say Lung was a good man before and also can't say I feel bad for Bakuda.

Canary though, this sucks. She definitely deserved to be punished, just because something is an accident doesn't make it not happen, just not to this extent.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about Canary. The problem is that despite the Protectorate and the PRT, this is a world whose legal systems really aren't suited for dealing with superpowers. The only way they deal with dangerous capes is the Birdcage, which is... acceptable for people like Marquis and Acidbath, but considerably less so when it means that people like Canary are trapped in the Birdcage with monsters like Bakuda. So, while she shouldn't have gotten away without any kind of punishment, she certainly didn't deserve to go there for the sake of setting a precedent, especially because the question of her responsibility is so incredibly murky.

Spoiler:
Canary without a doubt had an unfair trial, but I'd have even more doubts that the man was lying. That is if my assumption on what happened was correct, her ex would have to be mentally ill to do something like that without someone else's influence. As terrible as Canary's lawer was I would hope he/she would investigate that.

Still Canary doesn't belong there, the three strike rule while clearly not perfect, Lisa said herself that super villians often escape from not birdcage prisons, seems to work well enough. Canary, though I know little about her, doesn't seem like the kinda person who would risk going there even if she got an extensive sentence to some other prison by making the attempt.

In fact speaking of Lisa she's mentioned the game that Supervillians and Heroes play. Now that I think of it I can't help but wonder if Canary's sentence was a result of her being rogue, that if she had been involved in the game that she would have gotten a sentence that gave her an oppurtunity to rejoin it.

Spoiler:
I agree with you that it was her power that made the guy did it. The problem is in figuring out how to apply guilt to Canary's situation, since it's basically a catch-22. Since there's no way of determining the full extent of one's powers other than first hand experience, it means that the only way that Canary could have learned that her power was to this extent would be either in an accident like this or if she intentionally tested it by forcing someone to do this. Therefore, the only way that Canary can be a responsible citizen and know enough about her power to avoid this kind of situation would be if she either accidentally did this to someone, in which case she gets prosecuted and sent to the Birdcage, or if she was actually the kind of monster she was accused of being, in which case the system arguably wins but Canary still ends up losing. It's like learning to shoot without any understanding of what a gun is or what a bullet does (and no reference manuals or instructors to tell you anything). All you know is that racking the slide and pulling the trigger can make a cool clicking noise, and sometimes, a really cool bang noise. Then one day, you accidentally shoot someone at a party. To any bystander, it looks like you just pointed a gun at the person's face and shot them, and nobody will believe you when you say that you legitimately had no idea that your gun was capable of killing someone.

And even if she takes the third option and just never uses her powers, that still doesn't solve the problem since there's still the pretty high chance that she'll unintentionally lose control in a situation that puts her under a lot of stress or pressure. Then a whole bunch of people end up permanently injured and she still ends up going to the Birdcage. There's almost no way she can win.

Also, yeah, her status as a rogue probably didn't help her all that much. As a relative celebrity, she has all the disadvantages of being in the spotlight without any of the positive reputation that a hero has at their disposal, nor the resources or influence of a villain.

Also, why is Fugly Bob's not a real restaurant? I would eat literally nothing else if a restaurant called Fugly Bob's existed near me.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:34 am

@Scienza:
I see what you're saying Scienza. Honestly it's kind of a waste that Lisa is a Supervillian, she could make it her job to read people's powers. Like how she did with Rachel (Not being able to read tone or other human social cues properly) and Brian (Reduced effect of radiation to his shadows).

7.2:

Taylor wrote: Yeah, but if you do it here, for this reason, I'm hittting back.

Badass. Maybe not the smartest way to go about socializing with Rachel, but points for courage.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:39 am

I find it rather telling that like ninety percent of Worm fanfiction seems to be Skitter going on a violent rampage of revenge.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:38 pm

7.8 midway:
Hookwolf just knocked over a fire hydrant and nothing came out. I'm not sure why but that really drives the point home, the Protecterate don't really care about the Docks. No one does.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:39 pm

30.3:
Watching Taylor's sanity collapse as she increasingly becomes a humanoid eldritch abomination is horrifying and tearjerking. It might be what is necessary to stop Scion, but it's such a massive cost. In order to fight one monster, Taylor's becoming another.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:40 am

1.01 (yes, really, I'm already spouting opinions):
Kay. I'm reading this now, too. Nothing particularly better to do. Lots of things of equal importance, but why not the popular thing?
This girl, Taylor, has just enough in common with me in her highschool life to make the differences in how she responds to abuse feel frustrating, for some reason, not that that's a strike against the book.
I just think this is going to be trickier for me than I figured if too much focus is put on her being bullied...

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Stringtheory on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:44 am

swicked wrote:
1.01 (yes, really, I'm already spouting opinions):
Kay. I'm reading this now, too. Nothing particularly better to do. Lots of things of equal importance, but why not the popular thing?
This girl, Taylor, has just enough in common with me in her highschool life to make the differences in how she responds to abuse feel frustrating, for some reason, not that that's a strike against the book.
I just think this is going to be trickier for me than I figured if too much focus is put on her being bullied...
If you can make it through the first five arcs then you should be good. I know, that first bit had me completely cringing as well.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:18 am

stringtheory wrote:[If you can make it through the first five arcs then you should be good. I know, that first bit had me completely cringing as well.
Spoiler:
I have to wonder if we are referring to the same things. 2.05 now. It isn't so much the defeatist attitude and the refusal to either turn to the school's administration because that would make the torment worse nor stand up to the girls because they'd just turn to the administration, but the hope. "It'll all be fine because I'm gonna be a superhero! I am a superhero! Yay!"
Having been put through a lot of the same paces, her hope is jarring to me. Not that, I guess, she doesn't kinda have a reason to... if less one prior to her first outing.
Anyway, again, not really a strike against the story.

After being decimated by having Emma turn a dark period in her life and a compliment as to her emotional strength into an eviscerating twist of a dagger, I can hardly help but laugh at the fallout. Gezz, this girl suffers.

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