[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Rayndalf wrote:

Dutcher wrote:Hmm, wonder how the story would turn out without Glory
Eh Boo is good enough as a romance.
Edit: by way is too late  to somehow include Tirek and Tartarus in the story?

I believe in the original FOE balefire bombs worked by opening portals to Tartarus

According to Nallar, the string "tartar" does not appear in FoE.

Rayndalf wrote:

Dutcher wrote:Hmm, wonder how the story would turn out without Glory
Eh Boo is good enough as a romance.
Edit: by way is too late  to somehow include Tirek and Tartarus in the story?

I believe in the original FOE balefire bombs worked by opening portals to Tartarus

Am I the only one who remembered an overuse of the words whinnying and nickering in the story?

Fallout Equestria wrote:It’s magical fire, I had offered, answering Ambrosia even as I realized I really didn’t know what balefire was, other than green and radioactive.

It’s bottled, necromancy-enhanced dragon’s breath, Ambrosia had told me.  The magical, disintegrative type of dragon’s breath that can send you someplace else.  In the case of balefire, probably straight to hell.

So no, it was basically just some speculation, or alternately dark humor.

I think that it was too late for Tartarus to come in at that point, and "hell" was frequently used already, including as a literal or metaphorical location, e.g. with "Then Watcher spoke again.  'Have you ever heard the old saying "The portal to hell is opened with the incantation of good intentions"?  If there was a moral to their story, I guess that would be it.' " Not to say that you couldn't have both, especially were one is a very real, specific place that serves as a prison for the living (or those close enough, anyway) and the other as a believed-in punishment for the dead existing within some religious beliefs.

I'm not doing anything with Tartarus.  There's another FoE fic that's doing that already AFAIK and there's no role Tirek can play at this point.

Somber wrote:I'm not doing anything with Tartarus.  There's another FoE fic that's doing that already AFAIK and there's no role Tirek can play at this point.

Fantastic!

RoboRed wrote:

Rayndalf wrote:
Am I the only one who remembered an overuse of the words whinnying and nickering in the story?

Nope.
I thought it was kinda adorable.

Don't forget the mezzanines.

Best one can hope for as far as stuff from newer episodes and the like now is maybe a name drop or a memory orb/file with a reference. I believe we've talked about this before but sometimes it's best to retread old ground.

I've mentioned that one thing that made reading FoE fun was that you could tell when a chapter came out after a new episode cause a name would pop up here and an event get a called back to there. PH has been a lot more spares in that, but it still happens.
In somebody's re-reading review recently they asked "Why was Blackjack's mental Pinkie felt this one time when she never was before?" The answer is simple, that chapter came out soon after whatever episode made felt ponies popular.

But all that said, it is WAY too late in the endgame to add in something major from the show like the recent finale(which I still haven't watched yet). Hell, I believe I was told it would be pointless, or was it impossible.., to name drop Maud Pie since even mentioning her would bring up questions there's no room to answer in.

Somber can and probably will surprise us, but as far as integrating show canon into the story, the cut off was the season 2 finale, with anything after that being a case by case basis and highly improbable for anything after season 3 actually popping up.

Edit: And the man himself has spoken.

I would like to know more about what "Pony Hell" actually is.  It seems an odd concept.  I'd expect something much more like "Everyone goes to the same nice afterlife, but those who did wrong are made to realize the faults in their actions and the pain they caused others".  Presumably Pony Hell is at least believed to be of the reformative variety rather than the eternal suffering just because variety.

Moodyman90 wrote:Somber can and probably will surprise us

Oh, Somber's going to surprise you lot.  :)
I expect he'll surprise me and the others on the editing team, too, and what little we know is already enough to…  Yeah.  Expect things you didn't expect.  Hopefully I've not said too much...

Finally in the home stretch of reading this monstrosity of a fanfiction

Amazingly written, beautifully descriptive and manages to mix in enough humour to offset the really grim parts of the story

Great job to everyone involved in writing it

Now...we appear to be talking about Pony Hell?

From my terribly limited FoE experience, it seems the "Everafter" is the Heaven version here?

Welcome to the forum and thank you for the compliments. :)

Don't mention it

So, what's the current topic we're trying to decipher here?

Gah, I can't find a way to type this without sounding idiotic, even to myself...

I can't put a name to what religion would best represent what the ponies/zebras believe in, since they seem to place a lot of focus in heavenly bodies, like the sun moon and stars

I always felt like Zebras focused more on the spirituality slant of religion rather than placing their faith in deities or a singular higher power.

swicked wrote:

Vinylshadow wrote:Don't mention it

So, what's the current topic we're trying to decipher here?

No idea. Just spit ballin', mostly.
It's kinda hard to imagine them having religion when they are ruled by the living personifications of night and day.

The Stable dwellers (or at least, Stable 2) definitely had a religion revolving around Celestia and Luna, and there was probably a mild form of that pre-war (there's definitely a lot of "Thank Celestia!" getting thrown around on the show). 

Beyond that, I'd imagine that the remaining ponies are either mildly agnostic or follow a variety of minor religions. I'd imagine there were probably minor cults of Discord and Nightmare Moon which had a few devoted followers lurking in the shadows and behind closed dorrs. Something that exists in my headcanon is a religion revolving around the Elements of Harmony and their bearers, which would only be strengthened by their rise as Ministry Mares.

Lastly, I'll bet that there was probably a decent-sized number of pony converts and followers of zebra mythology, especially before the war. The reason why we don't see any of that in FoE is just that Image and Morale cracked down hard on that during the war.

This isn't including post-war cults and religions like Red Eye's personality cult, the Harbingers, the followers of Unity, etc.

Even though LittlePip spent most of her time thinking up colorful curse phrases involving the sisters.

Ya know, I'm rather surprised there wasn't more ponies who tried to track down the Elements of Harmony post-war. Well...since they can't be used unless you represent the Element, that woudl be a rather pointless side-quest...

Littlepip was the unifying spark
Ditzy Doo is Laughter
Calamity is Loyalty
Velvet is Kindness
Homage is Honesty
Generosity and Magic aren't named, but apparently they were found in order for the Wasteland to be cleaned

Does Kkat consider Horizons canon to the FoE timeline? I can't find a solid answer

Blackjack might be generosity, since she tried to help everyone that needed it, even if they didn't really deserve it (much to her companions annoyance, I believe?)

Vinylshadow wrote:Even though LittlePip spent most of her time thinking up colorful curse phrases involving the sisters.

Ya know, I'm rather surprised there wasn't more ponies who tried to track down the Elements of Harmony post-war. Well...since they can't be used unless you represent the Element, that woudl be a rather pointless side-quest...

Littlepip was the unifying spark
Ditzy Doo is Laughter
Calamity is Loyalty
Velvet is Kindness
Homage is Honesty
Generosity and Magic aren't named, but apparently they were found in order for the Wasteland to be cleaned

Does Kkat consider Horizons canon to the FoE timeline? I can't find a solid answer

Blackjack might be generosity, since she tried to help everyone that needed it, even if they didn't really deserve it (much to her companions annoyance, I believe?)

Yep its approved.
I think charity is generosity, since Blackjack her self said that.
Blackjack might be magic, but i guess we have to wait and see how she does now without her old body.
The elements themselves are an old relic from time pass, i cant think anyone would risk their life to venture into Canterlot just to see if the elements are still there.

Dutcher wrote:

Yep its approved.
I think charity is generosity, since Blackjack her self said that.
Blackjack might be magic, but i guess we have to wait and see how she does now without her old body.
The elements themselves are an old relic from time pass, i cant think anyone would risk their life to venture into Canterlot just to see if the elements are still there.

Approved doesn't mean it's canon, just that Kkat thought that it was decently high-quality.

Scienza wrote:

Dutcher wrote:

Yep its approved.
I think charity is generosity, since Blackjack her self said that.
Blackjack might be magic, but i guess we have to wait and see how she does now without her old body.
The elements themselves are an old relic from time pass, i cant think anyone would risk their life to venture into Canterlot just to see if the elements are still there.

Approved doesn't mean it's canon, just that Kkat thought that it was decently high-quality.

Alright good to know.
I was sure its canon

Moodyman90 wrote:I've mentioned that one thing that made reading FoE fun was that you could tell when a chapter came out after a new episode cause a name would pop up here and an event get a called back to there. PH has been a lot more spares in that, but it still happens.
In somebody's re-reading review recently they asked "Why was Blackjack's mental Pinkie felt this one time when she never was before?" The answer is simple, that chapter came out soon after whatever episode made felt ponies popular.

Yeah, but it wasn't that recent, about three and a half months after the fact. Though it may have been the first good chance to incorporate it.

O. Hinds wrote:I would like to know more about what "Pony Hell" actually is.  It seems an odd concept.  I'd expect something much more like "Everyone goes to the same nice afterlife, but those who did wrong are made to realize the faults in their actions and the pain they caused others".  Presumably Pony Hell is at least believed to be of the reformative variety rather than the eternal suffering just because variety.

I think that the closest we have for what Pony Hell is in PH is, or at least what one version is, is the conception held by Psalm:

Chapter Forty Five wrote:“You there!  Halt!  Who--” a mare in a maintenance suit shouted.  Without hesitating, without even thinking about it, I drew my IF-44 submachine gun and put a three round burst in her chest.  A curious hollowness filled me as I trotted over her body and walked to the door, entering a security bypass password that opened to a tunnel filled with magical radiation, reeking smoke, and screams.  It was a promise of what was to come if I did not serve and receive absolution for my sins.

So for her, at least, it didn't seem to be very redemptive.

Scienza wrote:

swicked wrote:

Vinylshadow wrote:Don't mention it

So, what's the current topic we're trying to decipher here?

No idea. Just spit ballin', mostly.
It's kinda hard to imagine them having religion when they are ruled by the living personifications of night and day.

The Stable dwellers (or at least, Stable 2) definitely had a religion revolving around Celestia and Luna, and there was probably a mild form of that pre-war (there's definitely a lot of "Thank Celestia!" getting thrown around on the show). 

Beyond that, I'd imagine that the remaining ponies are either mildly agnostic or follow a variety of minor religions. I'd imagine there were probably minor cults of Discord and Nightmare Moon which had a few devoted followers lurking in the shadows and behind closed dorrs. Something that exists in my headcanon is a religion revolving around the Elements of Harmony and their bearers, which would only be strengthened by their rise as Ministry Mares.

Lastly, I'll bet that there was probably a decent-sized number of pony converts and followers of zebra mythology, especially before the war. The reason why we don't see any of that in FoE is just that Image and Morale cracked down hard on that during the war.

This isn't including post-war cults and religions like Red Eye's personality cult, the Harbingers, the followers of Unity, etc.

Don't forget the Steel Rangers or the cult of the state in the Enclave.

My impression for before the was was that religion was fairly uncommon, given in part the divergence between the Enclave and the Stable-derived surface. But then, that could have resulted from the pegasi moving away from the previous norm. Within PH, the response to Psalm's cutie mark for faith and, in part, her prayer, seemed to suggest that religiosity was sufficiently uncommon that at least a good portion of people couldn't understand what she was talking about.

Vinylshadow wrote:Even though LittlePip spent most of her time thinking up colorful curse phrases involving the sisters.

Ya know, I'm rather surprised there wasn't more ponies who tried to track down the Elements of Harmony post-war. Well...since they can't be used unless you represent the Element, that woudl be a rather pointless side-quest...

Littlepip was the unifying spark
Ditzy Doo is Laughter
Calamity is Loyalty
Velvet is Kindness
Homage is Honesty
Generosity and Magic aren't named, but apparently they were found in order for the Wasteland to be cleaned

Does Kkat consider Horizons canon to the FoE timeline? I can't find a solid answer

Blackjack might be generosity, since she tried to help everyone that needed it, even if they didn't really deserve it (much to her companions annoyance, I believe?)

I've long thought she would be a great candidate for Generosity, even if it doesn't end up going that way. Granted, I also think that you could get an acceptable bearer for whatever element you want by randomly selecting someone from a crowd, given that the best I can say about the standard applied to the Element of Honesty, from my perspective anyway, is that you can qualify if you aren't actively fabricating or spreading lies, or facilitating a coverup—all this bearing in mind that you are not just a member of the media, but the most important journalist in the world—right this very instant.

And no, it's not canon. Nothing is canon to FoE but FoE, unless you consider chapter 20.5 to be separate, in which case that is canon to it. "Kkat approved" only means and has only ever meant that she approved the idea of separating PH out from the Fallout Equestria side stories posts at EQD. And this, by the way, had nothing to do with Kkat's perception of its quality: Kkat never read side stories until after the completion of the original, and only read PH (through the end of the first book, I believe) a few months ago.

Pony hell is obviously Equestria Girls.

Thus far, my opinion has mostly been really, really, "eh". It's an improvement over the "ew" I had for most of the film, but it's a far cry from, say, S2 finale.

But back to the nonsensical speculation. Think about it. Why else would EQG contain the most beloved of the Sun Goddess's acolytes, banished from the bright world for her ambitions? Trapped far below, she is horrifically warped into a bizarre reflection of her former self, to lord over her twisted followers as she plots to one day return to the other world as a conqueror. And, most importantly, her final form looks like the devil.

It's because Sunset Shimmer is actually pony Satan.

Dekshuduph wrote:

RoboRed wrote:

Rayndalf wrote:
Am I the only one who remembered an overuse of the words whinnying and nickering in the story?

Nope.
I thought it was kinda adorable.

Don't forget the mezzanines.

11 times according to ctrl-F (from http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/119/6/8/fallout_equestria_ereader___official_by_jlryan-d4xz4ta.pdf)... I never picked up on it but that's a lot of times for such an odd word
"Medical pony" appears 27 times
True to her addiction "Mint-al" appears 63 times
S.A.T.S. ('sats' doesn't appear at all) appear 66 times
"Whinny" and its derivatives appear 67 times
"Nicker" (and probably some snicker) appear 115 times...
Sparkle-Cola appears once
Sparke~Cola appears 41 times...

Scienza wrote:Pony hell is obviously Equestria Girls.

While I can not find any point were balefire or its relation to hell is explained in detail, I must agree with this assertion.

I thought it said somewhere in FoE that balefire is necromantic dragonfire summoned from hell. I can't seem to remember where (but I am reading through again so if I find it a post will follow), but its also entirely possible that I'm confusing balefire with some other story's magical death flames

Scienza wrote:I'm still of the belief that the EoS is located under BPM. Hell, a goddamn starspawn lives there.

Nah. The Tokomare pretty much IS the EoS. What's left of it, anyway, after bits and pieces were lopped off for all the various starmetal experiments and applications. Remember, the EoS is directly under the Core, while BPM is way off to the north.

Speaking of that starspawn... kind of weird that a Godzilla-class monster can hide like it does, isn't it? I'll bet it spends most of its time in the Shadow World.

Icy Shake wrote:

Rayndalf wrote:

Dutcher wrote:Hmm, wonder how the story would turn out without Glory
Eh Boo is good enough as a romance.
Edit: by way is too late  to somehow include Tirek and Tartarus in the story?

I believe in the original FOE balefire bombs worked by opening portals to Tartarus

Am I the only one who remembered an overuse of the words whinnying and nickering in the story?

Fallout Equestria wrote:It’s magical fire, I had offered, answering Ambrosia even as I realized I really didn’t know what balefire was, other than green and radioactive.

It’s bottled, necromancy-enhanced dragon’s breath, Ambrosia had told me.  The magical, disintegrative type of dragon’s breath that can send you someplace else.  In the case of balefire, probably straight to hell.

So no, it was basically just some speculation, or alternately dark humor.

I think that it was too late for Tartarus to come in at that point, and "hell" was frequently used already, including as a literal or metaphorical location, e.g. with "Then Watcher spoke again.  'Have you ever heard the old saying "The portal to hell is opened with the incantation of good intentions"?  If there was a moral to their story, I guess that would be it.' " Not to say that you couldn't have both, especially were one is a very real, specific place that serves as a prison for the living (or those close enough, anyway) and the other as a believed-in punishment for the dead existing within some religious beliefs.

swicked wrote:

Silver136 wrote:I thought it said somewhere in FoE that balefire is necromantic dragonfire summoned from hell. I can't seem to remember where (but I am reading through again so if I find it a post will follow), but its also entirely possible that I'm confusing balefire with some other story's magical death flames

...well, I looked in the ereader Rayndalf just posted, and found this:

Either way, it didn’t matter. The megaspell-augmented balefire had
proven greater than the Goddess’ power.

It’s magical fire, I had offered, answering Ambrosia even as I realized
I really didn’t know what balefire was, other than green and
radioactive.

It’s bottled, necromancy-enhanced dragon’s breath, Ambrosia had
told me. The magical, disintegrative type of dragon’s breath that can
send you someplace else. In the case of balefire, probably straight to
hell.

Based on the possession of the super-alicorn (who had probably
been a normal alicorn until Twilight Sparkle flew around new crater in
Splendid Valley searching for survivors), Ambrosia’s guess was
almost certainly wrong. But the concept was still chilling.

...so no, that description is from FoE, but was just a suggestion by the main character. One even she didn't really believe.
All we really know for certain is it's zebra necromancy.

A popular answer for a popular question. That passage has been getting a lot of use, being posted twice in under 24 hours.  

SilentCarto wrote:

Scienza wrote:I'm still of the belief that the EoS is located under BPM. Hell, a goddamn starspawn lives there.

Nah. The Tokomare pretty much IS the EoS. What's left of it, anyway, after bits and pieces were lopped off for all the various starmetal experiments and applications. Remember, the EoS is directly under the Core, while BPM is way off to the north.

Speaking of that starspawn... kind of weird that a Godzilla-class monster can hide like it does, isn't it? I'll bet it spends most of its time in the Shadow World.

Still, it's not as weird as the Reaper indoctrination or whatever which is making everyone realize the truth that nothing interesting is under BPM.

Scienza wrote:and there was probably a mild form of that pre-war (there's definitely a lot of "Thank Celestia!" getting thrown around on the show). 

No "probably", I think.*  Chapel.

*Unless you're talking about actually before the war rather than just before the apocalypse.  FoE used "prewar" for "preapocalypse" because that's what Fallout did.  The problem is that it was fine in Fallout because the last war both started and ended with the apocalypse; in FoE, unfortunately, the apocalypse was just the end of a continuous twenty-year-long war.  Though you probably know this already, I thought that I'd just elucidate the somewhat confused meaning of that word/phrase.

Vinylshadow wrote:Ya know, I'm rather surprised there wasn't more ponies who tried to track down the Elements of Harmony post-war.

Hm; I never thought of that.
I imagine, now, that there probably were and we just never heard from or of them.  Either they gave up the search, found Spike's cave and got killed, or found Spike's cave and joined the small number of beings supplying him.

Vinylshadow wrote:Blackjack might be generosity, since she tried to help everyone that needed it, even if they didn't really deserve it (much to her companions annoyance, I believe?)

I believe that it's rather common on Cloudsville to consider Charity Generosity.  :)

Dutcher wrote:I think charity is generosity, since Blackjack her self said that.

She might be.  I'd say that she's a good candidate, and Blackjack agrees.  To my knowledge, though, only Somber currently actually knows whether or not she is.

Dutcher wrote:The elements themselves are an old relic from time pass, i cant think anyone would risk their life to venture into Canterlot just to see if the elements are still there.

Oh, I can imagine it, now that it occurs to me to.  I'd think that there have probably been several over the centuries.

Icy Shake wrote:So for her, at least, it didn't seem to be very redemptive.

Yes, but Psalm seems to have developed her own, personal, abnormally harsh religion.

SilentCarto wrote:Speaking of that starspawn... kind of weird that a Godzilla-class monster can hide like it does, isn't it? I'll bet it spends most of its time in the Shadow World.

Ooh, interesting hypothesis.

edit:

Scienza wrote:Still, it's not as weird as the Reaper indoctrination

What do you mean? Am I forgetting something?

So, I've been trying to figure out BJ's virtue. Yeah, again and all, but seriously. Found this post I made, and I gotta ask: Does anyone think this might actually be a bit closer to the mark?

Derpmind wrote:

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Kinda makes me wonder how she hasn't already become dulled to that kind of things, by now.

I know she's The One Pony Who Always Try To Do better, but still...

After all the shit she's been through, it really is impressive that she still give a damn about others.

Compassion is BJ's coping mechanism to deal with all the shit she's lived through. If BJ tried to only care about herself, she'd also have to not care about all her flaws and failings too. I think both of these are parts of her character that are impossibly difficult to change. Without that drive to help others, BJ would have self-destructed long ago.

Besides that, is there not there the heroic ideal of the person who selflessly helps everyone they are able to? How much pain must one endure before they give that up?

Compassion? Maybe selflessness? Eh, maybe I'm just reaching. I know one thing though: As amusing as it is, the whole secretly being Go Fish thing is just way too far from who Blackjack is. Why don't we speculate about much more plausible things anymore, like P-21 + Rampage shipping?

O. Hinds wrote:

Dutcher wrote:The elements themselves are an old relic from time pass, i cant think anyone would risk their life to venture into Canterlot just to see if the elements are still there.

Oh, I can imagine it, now that it occurs to me to.  I'd think that there have probably been several over the centuries.

Probably Steel Rangers, or an enclave unit.
But even then its so depressing.
They need to get all the way to Canterlot
Climb up the mountain.
Avoid the pink cloud.
Avoid the ghouls and the death machines.
Avoid crazy alicorns.
Get to the castle and find some way to open the vault which opens only to alicorns.
"sorry, your Elements are in another castle"

O. Hinds wrote:

Scienza wrote:and there was probably a mild form of that pre-war (there's definitely a lot of "Thank Celestia!" getting thrown around on the show). 

No "probably", I think.*  Chapel.

*Unless you're talking about actually before the war rather than just before the apocalypse.  FoE used "prewar" for "preapocalypse" because that's what Fallout did.  The problem is that it was fine in Fallout because the last war both started and ended with the apocalypse; in FoE, unfortunately, the apocalypse was just the end of a continuous twenty-year-long war.  Though you probably know this already, I thought that I'd just elucidate the somewhat confused meaning of that word/phrase.

Aye on that last part. I probably should have chosen a different phrase, but I mean like, literally before the war. They throw it around a lot on the show.

edit:

Scienza wrote:Still, it's not as weird as the Reaper indoctrination

What do you mean?  Am I forgetting something?

Reapers in the sense of immortal robot cuttlefish from space.

See Mass Effect 3 ending's nerdrage.