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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Cptadder on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:14 am

O. Hinds wrote:
So you think that they'd be better off putting in the extra production lines and metal supplies needed and just make two (four, if the normal/AP distinction is included) different designs of bullets?
Do they have access to plastic? You can make pure blast grenades out of several types of plastic or very thin metal which are great offensive grenades since they rely on the pure blast effect rather than shrapnel which means you can use them much closer to you than a standard fragmentation grenade. The lethality cone of a standard grenade is eight meters with the base plate lethal out to 15 meters but a pure blast grenade is lethal inside three meters only but is still effective (Loud bang, lots of dust) in an entire room in enclosed spaces. Putting aside plastics it's quite possible to cast pure blast grenades out of easy to make clay, in fact the first grenades were clay and you don't need to make it the burning fuse type seen in old Batman serials, you could rig any one of a number of traditional pull and throw types. The Japanese were pioneers in this during the lead up to the presumed invasion of Japan finding all sorts of interesting things to cast grenades into including old tin cans (Something you can already do in Fallout), wooden boxes and very nasty low yield bamboo bombs.

As Bullets don't need to be solid slug to save metal you can use a alternative less war useful material like again some kinds of plastic or good old lead, brass or several other types. Or just go hollowpoint in mass and reduce the amount of material per bullet by a good 40%.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:20 am

swicked wrote:
Ironmonger wrote:
Ketchup wrote:That was a terrible pun. Clever, but terrible.

Aint my pun, but leave Terry Bull out of this!

*shotgun racks*

Okay I'll stop. Shy

EDIT: "Holy molie that's a lot of holies!"
Heh, I wonder what you'll be like when you get back from your tour of duty.

Me and him, optimistically, will be more-or-less the same, personality-wise
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:26 am

swicked wrote:Heh, I wonder what you'll be like when you get back from your tour of duty.

This sums it up pretty well.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:29 am

Mister Frost wrote:Me and him, optimistically, will be more-or-less the same, personality-wise
I've met a lot of marines, one of my better friends being one of them, and you're right... that's a really optimistic expectation.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:29 am

swicked wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:Me and him, optimistically, will be more-or-less the same, personality-wise
I've met a lot of marines, one of my better friends being one of them, and you're right... that's a really optimistic expectation.

That's a bit of a different case, you are talking about the Marine Corps, we are going Army. However the issue of some sort of trauma be it physical or emotional a risk. Part of this decision comes from my grandpa being a demolitions expert from the Army during the Korean War.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:32 am

Ironmonger wrote:
swicked wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:Me and him, optimistically, will be more-or-less the same, personality-wise
I've met a lot of marines, one of my better friends being one of them, and you're right... that's a really optimistic expectation.

That's a bit of a different case, you are talking about the Marine Corps, we are going Army.
Ah. Never met anyone from the army, the nuclear industry is just full of navy and marine.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:33 am

From what I've heard and partly read, the marines are usually in the thick of it and their training is a bit more harsh. We have a healthy chance of getting stationed on a military base somewhere rather than active combat though it's always a risk. Biggest fear is snipers.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:36 am

Ironmonger wrote:From what I've heard and partly read, the marines are usually in the thick of it and their training is a bit more harsh. We have a healthy chance of getting stationed on a military base somewhere rather than active combat though it's always a risk. Biggest fear is snipers.
Ah, so you're hoping for an "exciting job", not an EXCITING job XD

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:37 am

One thing we have going for us is that we aren't going in wanting to be "badass" or any infantile delusions some people have upon joining the military, we're ready to do our jobs and be a part of a team

Also, a lot of wartime psychological trauma is due to being forced to kill, and call me a sociopath but that doesn't bother me.

As for our duty stations, to be honest I'm rather hoping for an active station. I'd rather die young and fighting than spend my career on a base
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:39 am

swicked wrote:
Ironmonger wrote:From what I've heard and partly read, the marines are usually in the thick of it and their training is a bit more harsh. We have a healthy chance of getting stationed on a military base somewhere rather than active combat though it's always a risk. Biggest fear is snipers.
Ah, so you're hoping for an "exciting job", not an EXCITING job XD

I'm willing to serve my country never said anything about dying. :P Might go Tank Corps, I don't think the more poorly-equipped armies have something that can gut a Stryker or Abrams quickly.
So yeah I'd join the marines if I were up to it, shooting at other people is fun but the downside of being on the front lines, especially in something like the marines, is you have too much stuff shooting back AT you. Not fun.


Last edited by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:43 am

.... umm navy would be from the nuclear program and marines fun,..
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:46 am

Mister Frost wrote:One thing we have going for us is that we aren't going in wanting to be "badass" or any infantile delusions some people have upon joining the military, we're ready to do our jobs and be a part of a team

Also, a lot of wartime psychological trauma is due to being forced to kill, and call me a sociopath but that doesn't bother me.

As for our duty stations, to be honest I'm rather hoping for an active station. I'd rather die young and fighting than spend my career on a base

well frost if you've done it, then I believe you.

Then again my uncle said the same thing, then he looked a man in they eyes as he killed him in iraq, it wasn't easy for him
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:47 am

PTSD/shellshock aren't exactly things you can truly prepare yourself against.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:50 am

AFAIK, the differences between Army and Marines are that the latter gets more and heavier training, are smaller, are amphibious, and has an air arm of its own.

@Iron, tanks:
Sure, insurgents don't have anything that can really destroy an Abrams, maybe a Stryker, but if you go against a modern army, as unlikely as that is, helicopters and other high-tech buggers would be your bane.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:51 am

I'll just leave this here.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:52 am

In all likelihood I'll just end up as standard Army infantry
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:54 am

I don't keep up much with politics aside from the presidential debates, but it seems the only modern armies that we would likely face is China and they still use recycled stuff from the 80's, not to mention we have much more naval and air support than they do.

Also another difference between the Army and Marines is that the jarheads travel in 14-man groups as opposed to the 9-man fireteams of the Army. I'd love to call myself a Marine but I'm not cut out for it.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:55 am

Mister Frost wrote:Also, a lot of wartime psychological trauma is due to being forced to kill, and call me a sociopath but that doesn't bother me.
Heh, oddly enough, people have actually said the same thing about me.
I've never worked well with authority figures, though, so a military career wouldn't agree with me.
Oh, and the risking my life bit. I'm pretty fearless in the general sense of not recognizing danger, but I startle somewhat easily and have terrible reaction time, so I doubt I'd be long among the living in any sort of real confrontation.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:56 am

I have no interest in the "Warrior Ethos" thing the Marines have going on. All respect to them, but I'd rather just be a part of a team and just do my job.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:58 am

Ironmonger wrote:So yeah I'd join the marines if I were up to it, shooting at other people is fun but the downside of being on the front lines, especially in something like the marines, is you have too much stuff shooting back AT you. Not fun.
A lot of the stories I've heard more involved IEDs, actually.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:01 am

swicked wrote:
A lot of the stories I've heard more involved IEDs, actually.

Same. The terrorists/insurgents don't seem to play fair, but I really have no place saying something like that since I haven't studied the subject. We have vehicles now days that are extremely resistant to explosives like the MRAP and Marauder but the infantry are always at risk since, until we get power armor at least (there's talk of that), they will almost always be vulnerable to bombs.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:03 am

Ironmonger wrote: the only modern armies that we would likely face is China and they still use recycled stuff from the 80's, not to mention we have much more naval and air support than they do.
The Abrams is from the 80s and is still considered one of the best tanks in the world. China has some top-notch gear and a much larger standing strength. Neither side could invade the other, as we've discussed in Adder's TS server, because the defender would always win. Don't underestimate them.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:07 am

Ketchup wrote:
The Abrams is from the 80s and is still considered one of the best tanks in the world. China has some top-notch gear and a much larger standing strength. Neither side could invade the other, as we've discussed in Adder's TS server, because the defender would always win. Don't underestimate them.

Abrams is from the 80's, yes, but we've been improving it constantly and we have the largest military expenditure of any country. China could pull a Stalin on us and use their numbers so you are right there. The Soviets had some relatively crappy (but reliable) technology and they were one of if not the most dangerous world power for a long time.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:13 am

I don't really have anything useful to contribute other than Marine training is meant to keep you on the up and up for fast instantaneous responses to command, also they encourage feild leadership, You're a lance corporal and your sergeant is dead or you're out of range of command, you lead,

had one of our DIs recall when he used mast to get his platoon around a red zone that their platoon leader (a fresh faced college Lieutenant) wanted to go through... so knowing whose instructions to take, when to take them and such is important, but let common sense rule.

anyone remember when the soviets invaded finland and got their asses kicked?

I looked it up on something and it was a rather crushing defeat for russia, and pathetic since they sent a massive offensive force to take it too...

honestly china is the greatest threat we could face economically, militarily, and soemthing else, but they would have trouble keeping their military properly supplied, then again, america could inflict a million chinese casualties everyday for a five years and wouldn't do too much damage to the population.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:16 am

Ironmonger wrote:
Abrams is from the 80's, yes, but we've been improving it constantly and we have the largest military expenditure of any country. China could pull a Stalin on us and use their numbers so you are right there. The Soviets had some relatively crappy (but reliable) technology and they were one of if not the most dangerous world power for a long time.
Sometimes, simple is all you need. The US may have some of the most advanced stuff, but for the same cost you could have twice as many of what came before it.
Keep in mind, the gunner of an AA gun doesn't care about how much an F-22 costs. Also, the US has too little sealift capacity to invade China and vice-versa.
Fun-fact: Canada still uses the M72 LAW and it is just as effective against the Taliban than anything less than a SMAW rocket, while being much cheaper.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:16 am

Iron, how in the hay are you sniping with a shotgun in my game? 23% chance to hit? You don't care! And poor Frost has now become target practice for the aliens. Dedicating medics to him to keep him alive.

Rum I have no idea what to make you. Maybe another assault.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:22 am

...It's like I've become the handsome hero in that game or something. Big mac

I have a few links on military statistics of USA ,Russia , and China as of 2011.

Glad we have a good topic going!

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:56 am

Cptadder wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
So you think that they'd be better off putting in the extra production lines and metal supplies needed and just make two (four, if the normal/AP distinction is included) different designs of bullets?
Do they have access to plastic? You can make pure blast grenades out of several types of plastic or very thin metal which are great offensive grenades since they rely on the pure blast effect rather than shrapnel which means you can use them much closer to you than a standard fragmentation grenade. The lethality cone of a standard grenade is eight meters with the base plate lethal out to 15 meters but a pure blast grenade is lethal inside three meters only but is still effective (Loud bang, lots of dust) in an entire room in enclosed spaces. Putting aside plastics it's quite possible to cast pure blast grenades out of easy to make clay, in fact the first grenades were clay and you don't need to make it the burning fuse type seen in old Batman serials, you could rig any one of a number of traditional pull and throw types. The Japanese were pioneers in this during the lead up to the presumed invasion of Japan finding all sorts of interesting things to cast grenades into including old tin cans (Something you can already do in Fallout), wooden boxes and very nasty low yield bamboo bombs.

As Bullets don't need to be solid slug to save metal you can use a alternative less war useful material like again some kinds of plastic or good old lead, brass or several other types. Or just go hollowpoint in mass and reduce the amount of material per bullet by a good 40%.

Hm... They might be able to make plastic from plants and stuff harvested from the sea, though the high volumes of petroleum industry come later.

So do you think that plastic-shelled explosive bullets would be the best idea for standard issue, or would some other design, such as nonmetal-filled kinetic penetrators, be better?

Actually, now you've gotten me thinking: could the cartridges be made out of plastic as well?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:57 am

Ironmonger wrote:
I have a few links on military statistics of USA ,Russia , and China as of 2011.

Glad we have a good topic going!
Bottomline, it doesn't matter how many tanks and aircraft the US has over China, they couldn't bring or supply enough of them there. Neither side would win and the only wars that could be fought would be electronic or nuclear. Neither would end well.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:58 am

The cartridges could be made out of plastic as long as they don't explode from the combustion. The material doesn't matter as long as it works.

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