Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by Caoimhe Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:39 pm

Okay, just finished. Such a busy week previous. It's funny how discussion up to this point has been about things covered in this chapter such as new roles for P-21, etc. Very cool.

I also love Somber teases like a character we haven't heard from in a while. Halfway through I figured it out and was waiting for the reveal. Eeeeee!

by WavemasterRyx Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:43 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Caprice's eyes have now been declared pink. Please report any remaining blue-eyed Caprices.

Re mind-controlled hellhounds:
Odd; that always seemed really clear to me. The GPE has a large amount of air power, but they have no dedicated ground forces. Hellhounds provide tough, powerful surface and, importantly, subsurface troops; their utility was demonstrated quite well at the Cathedral. The resource investment in the mind control units is also minimal, important for the resource-strapped pegasi.

- Alright, I'll keep my eyes open.

- Well no one's questioning how effective they are, certainly more so than the deathclaws were, according to all the videos I've seen of Fallout 3 gameplay. But where is the logical step from "we need ground troops" to "let's mind-control these incredibly dangerous creatures"? I don't see where it would be a "minimal" resource investment either. Considering you would need not only to come up with the idea of mind control in the first place (which there's no reason given why they'd even think of it), but then spend considerable time and effort perfecting it. Something like that isn't easy, it's a very specialized technology that would have taken a large investment.

by Guest Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:47 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Random thought :

New Dawn looks awfully like a ponified version of a Necron, right ?

Does that make The Eater of Souls a C'Tan ?

I mean, it's a Star. That eat souls. That... kinda make sense, right ?

That's what I've been thinking for quite awhile, especially after Somber did mention that it ate other stars...

by Cptadder Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:51 pm

The problem for the Enclave is they can't use ponies, that goes against the propaganda of a wasteland full of murderous savages. So if they recruit ground based ponies they won't be able to keep them in line long as a military force because the more common soldiers know the more the Pegasus themselves know... remember universal enlistment means common soldier ponies are common citizens. And common citizens get to go home at some point.

So Hellhounds make sense since they can't directly threaten Pegasus interests and they are pretty nasty weapons by themselves.

by O. Hinds Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:17 pm

WavemasterRyx wrote:
- Well no one's questioning how effective they are, certainly more so than the deathclaws were, according to all the videos I've seen of Fallout 3 gameplay. But where is the logical step from "we need ground troops" to "let's mind-control these incredibly dangerous creatures"? I don't see where it would be a "minimal" resource investment either. Considering you would need not only to come up with the idea of mind control in the first place (which there's no reason given why they'd even think of it), but then spend considerable time and effort perfecting it. Something like that isn't easy, it's a very specialized technology that would have taken a large investment.

Development of any new ground warfare tech would be expensive. Once development of this is complete, however, the investment per soldier is just the small amount for the control receiver. The control transmitters also have to be built, but that's about it. No weapons or armor to manufacture, no specialized logistics train, no spare parts to worry about...

Also, to add onto what Cptadder said, hellhounds have the additional advantage that most Wastelanders only negatively care about their wellbeing and don't interact much with them, allowing the experiments to be more easily kept secret from surface ponies until deployment.

by WavemasterRyx Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

@O. Hinds and Cptadder
But as it stands, there is still no logical reason for them to use hellhounds. Everything that they accomplished could have been accomplished from the sky, except for two very specific points. 1) Trying to counter LittlePip, and 2) Finding Radar in Friendship City.
For the first point, they couldn't have possibly cared that much about LittlePip, and the hellhounds proved ineffective anyways. And in the second case, hellhounds weren't even used, and would have just ended up killing Radar before he could be captured anyways.

Yes, hiring mercenaries from the surface would have been a much more logical, if it weren't for the points you brought up. In which case, merely teaching a team of pegasi to learn how to fight without being airborne would have been more than sufficient and not taken /any/ extra resources.

by Vergil Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:52 pm

Wasn't the enclave running out of resources they could only get from the surface though? That alone could warrant a surface army of some sort.

by Ironmonger Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 pm

How I imagine Deus. Snipehamster said the same thing. There was also some imagery of Fluffy Deus.
[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 32 Fellbpaint5

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 32 Fellbpaint5

by O. Hinds Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:50 pm

WavemasterRyx wrote:@O. Hinds and Cptadder
But as it stands, there is still no logical reason for them to use hellhounds. Everything that they accomplished could have been accomplished from the sky, except for two very specific points. 1) Trying to counter LittlePip, and 2) Finding Radar in Friendship City.
For the first point, they couldn't have possibly cared that much about LittlePip, and the hellhounds proved ineffective anyways. And in the second case, hellhounds weren't even used, and would have just ended up killing Radar before he could be captured anyways.

Yes, hiring mercenaries from the surface would have been a much more logical, if it weren't for the points you brought up. In which case, merely teaching a team of pegasi to learn how to fight without being airborne would have been more than sufficient and not taken /any/ extra resources.

You're forgetting the Cathedral. The hellhounds were instrumental in the GPE/Red Eye war.

Also, saying that "everything that was accomplished could have been done from the air" ignores that the op's planners did not know exactly what would happen. For all they knew, they would need heavy ground forces.

As for training pegasi for ground combat, hellhounds are both more effective and more expendable. There is also, as I mentioned, the fact that hellhounds are also very good at belowground combat.

Vergil wrote:Wasn't the enclave running out of resources they could only get from the surface though? That alone could warrant a surface army of some sort.

Oh, that makes me think of something else: when not engaged in combat, the mind-controlled hellhounds could act as a mining workforce supplying raw ore to be shipped up.

by WavemasterRyx Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Ironmonger wrote:How I imagine Deus. Snipehamster said the same thing. There was also some imagery of Fluffy Deus.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/fellbpaint5.jpg

Ah cool, I'd been picturing something more like the tank from Advance Wars. I'll see what I can do maybe.

by Vergil Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:16 pm

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Ironmonger wrote:How I imagine Deus. Snipehamster said the same thing. There was also some imagery of Fluffy Deus.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/fellbpaint5.jpg
Ah cool, I'd been picturing something more like the tank from Advance Wars. I'll see what I can do maybe.

I'm sure you can handle it. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

by Ketchup Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:33 pm

I was thinking of a tank with a double-barreled cannon in a typical round-ish turret like the Sherman's but bigger with 2 separate side sponsons on each side of the chassis for the machine guns to cover all angles. Hull shaped kind of like a Leopard 2 tank.

by Kaidon Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:22 am

I completely agree with Mister Nikel. That chapter was awesome work. :)

And it was bugging me all day trying to think of what CyberDawn's reveal reminded me of. As soon as I remembered, I almost gave a squee of excitement.

by Caoimhe Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:23 am

So, since I'm stupid: That thing was indeed in the skin of Dawn, right? Not just a "disguise?" I mean, the dialog makes it seem that way but you never know.

by Guest Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:25 am

Caoimhe wrote:So, since I'm stupid: That thing was indeed in the skin of Dawn, right? Not just a "disguise?" I mean, the dialog makes it seem that way but you never know.

From what I understood, yes. It was wearing Dawn's skin like a jacket.

by Caoimhe Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:26 am

Hmmmm, curious how she died then... or if she was found more or less alive and well and murdered just to get to Blackjack. That's awful to think about. :(

by Guest Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:31 am

I think she died in the tunnels from enervation and the other dangers that lurk down there. Though, it may still be Dawn. Except where BJ wasn't taken over when her cybernetics were implanted. Coginitium just took over and had direct control, that's just what I think though, it would explain why she had all the feelings for Sky Striker and Glory.

by CannonFodder Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:34 am

guarddogjr wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:So, since I'm stupid: That thing was indeed in the skin of Dawn, right? Not just a "disguise?" I mean, the dialog makes it seem that way but you never know.

From what I understood, yes. It was wearing Dawn's skin like a jacket.

The idea of a enemy that just wear ponies' skin like a jacket is a downright 9.5/10 on the "OH ****!"-o-meter and a 9.7/10 on the "I'm so screwed if I had to fight this thing"-o-meter

I so can't wait to hear more about the cyberdemons, cause personally in the fallout equestria universe that is probably the most unique enemy idea to have been thought up by someone.

guarddogjr wrote:I think she died in the tunnels from enervation and
the other dangers that lurk down there. Though, it may still be Dawn.
Except where BJ wasn't taken over when her cybernetics were implanted.
Coginitium just took over and had direct control, that's just what I
think though, it would explain why she had all the feelings for Sky
Striker and Glory.

That's what I think as well.

I think Cognitum took Dawn's brain after she had died and stuffed it into that body. It may be Dawn's brain in the toaster, but it's no more than a sock puppet for Cognitum with Dawn's flesh on it.

by Stringtheory Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:38 am

CannonFodder wrote:
guarddogjr wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:So, since I'm stupid: That thing was indeed in the skin of Dawn, right? Not just a "disguise?" I mean, the dialog makes it seem that way but you never know.

From what I understood, yes. It was wearing Dawn's skin like a jacket.
The idea of a enemy that just wear ponies' skin like a jacket is a downright 9.5/10 on the "OH ****!"-o-meter and a 9.7/10 on the "I'm so screwed if I had to fight this thing"-o-meter.

not to mention it's a straight 11/10 on the HERESY!!!-o-meter
[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 32 HERESY

by Sindri Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:49 am

Caoimhe wrote:Hmmmm, curious how she died then... or if she was found more or less alive and well and murdered just to get to Blackjack. That's awful to think about. :(

I figure she was still alive until the moment that she turned away from Cogs. But sufficiently important people don't just get a shredder implanted in their insides, so as soon as she met with Sky Striker and started to go sane Cognitum flipped the switch, killed what was left of Dawn (or at least most of her) and shifted her augmentations over to being an independent robot.

by Ketchup Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:07 am

stringtheory wrote:
CannonFodder wrote:
guarddogjr wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:So, since I'm stupid: That thing was indeed in the skin of Dawn, right? Not just a "disguise?" I mean, the dialog makes it seem that way but you never know.

From what I understood, yes. It was wearing Dawn's skin like a jacket.
The idea of a enemy that just wear ponies' skin like a jacket is a downright 9.5/10 on the "OH ****!"-o-meter and a 9.7/10 on the "I'm so screwed if I had to fight this thing"-o-meter.
not to mention it's a straight 11/10 on the HERESY!!!-o-meter

Like these fellas:

Spoiler:

But those are more like psychopathic robots that want to bathe in and drink blood. They are living metal, so they can't drink it but they try anyway. Cogs isn't quite that way, I think.

by Kippershy Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:08 am

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Ironmonger wrote:How I imagine Deus. Snipehamster said the same thing. There was also some imagery of Fluffy Deus.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/fellbpaint5.jpg
Ah cool, I'd been picturing something more like the tank from Advance Wars. I'll see what I can do maybe.

That's exactly how I imagine him too.

by SilentCarto Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:09 am

Chapter 52 Comments:

Editing:

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https://cloudsville.rpg-board.net/viewtopic.forum?t=836

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