[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

O. Hinds wrote:Hm.  It's a good enough conspiracy theory until the last line, but the Bitters obviously haven't won: there's still intelligent life on the surface.

But for how much longer?   

O. Hinds wrote:Well, a new city like that would be quite expensive; there'd have to be some big advantage to building a new city instead of expanding an existing one.

Firm ground, making it easier to build bigger building, allowing to build more houses and factories for more people at a lesser cost instead of having to build a floating ship-like structure for each one of them?

(Elusive City is a really cool concept, but as the Alliance is going to continue to grow, it's going to make less and less economic sense to expand it further if there's a good enough alternative to build a center of population)

O. Hinds wrote:Sounds good.  What are the cards made of, and do they incorporate any computer-read information (magstrips and the like)?

Probably just plasticized paper, with no digital informations. Maybe just some authentication spell to prove it's not a fake.

O. Hinds wrote:Some of the wording was a bit awkward

May I know which bits, please? For my personal instruction.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:(Elusive City is a really cool concept, but as the Alliance is going to continue to grow, it's going to make less and less economic sense to expand it further if there's a good enough alternative to build a center of population)

Or more accurately, Elusive City would be the city of the rich of powerful, where only the fact of living there would be a mark of prestige, while the city built on firm ground would the one where actual people actually live and work.

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Hm.  It's a good enough conspiracy theory until the last line, but the Bitters obviously haven't won: there's still intelligent life on the surface.

But for how much longer?   

:)

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Well, a new city like that would be quite expensive; there'd have to be some big advantage to building a new city instead of expanding an existing one.

Firm ground, making it easier to build bigger building, allowing to build more houses and factories for more people at a lesser cost instead of having to build a floating ship-like structure for each one of them?

(Elusive City is a really cool concept, but as the Alliance is going to continue to grow, it's going to make less and less economic sense to expand it further if there's a good enough alternative to build a center of population)

Ah, so basically the island would be an expansion of Elusive City, so that it's not eclipsed population-wise by Port Maple or the like?

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Sounds good.  What are the cards made of, and do they incorporate any computer-read information (magstrips and the like)?

Probably just plasticized paper, with no digital informations. Maybe just some authentication spell to prove it's not a fake.

Ah, thanks.

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Some of the wording was a bit awkward

May I know which bits, please? For my personal instruction.

Let's see…

This part, I think it was:

There's some confusing dialogue attribution.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:

Harmony Ltd. wrote:(Elusive City is a really cool concept, but as the Alliance is going to continue to grow, it's going to make less and less economic sense to expand it further if there's a good enough alternative to build a center of population)

Or more accurately, Elusive City would be the city of the rich of powerful, where only the fact of living there would be a mark of prestige, while the city built on firm ground would the one where actual people actually live and work.

So the current Elusive City would stay what it is while the expansion would be lower-tier but under the same sort of direct Elusive Company control?

Hm... Yes, I suppose that that could work. Ideally, the island chosen would have good offshore petroleum reserves so that Elusive City could just be moved. The Company probably has enough alternative petroleum supplies by now to cover both the Alliance's needs and the Company's power during the transit. Due to the size of the undertaking, though (and so that I don't have to redo the map), perhaps this plan is still, well, a plan in 30SR?

Better?

Spoiler:

As for the island city, yeah, probably something like that. The Alliance is still small enough that it doesn't need to build a new metropolis for a few million people to live in just yet. But in the half-century to come, who knows?

How does that make for a news bulletin ?

Spoiler:

White Peak Incorporated would be a Geneighva-based corporation, Lady Edelweiss of the Lake Keep being a noble-pony ghoul from the city's stable (you know, the one obsessed with medical science), born Pre-War.

It would be one of the biggest business in the Republic of Geneighva and bringer of foreign currencies, with another company that sells newly manufactured Stable-Tec parts from the blueprints they have, for a hefty sum.

Geneighva is at peace with the NCR and under its (unilateral) protection: while Geneighva is glad for the added security, they would rather stay independent for the time being.

Ah, I see. I'd suggest putting dialogue from separate characters on separate lines.

Ah, sure. It's not a question of housing people, though (to give only one example, Port Maple is an industrial boom town with plenty of space to expand), but a question of housing people under Elusive's complete control. :)
You have a good point, though; Elusive City and Masozi are going to have to work to keep up. The Alliance's capital and commercial center is a floating city in the middle of the Marediterranean, and its industrial and military center was until recently located not only away from the Marediterranean but on a confined portion of the Equestrian Peninsula. The new Miliozi territory on the peninsula gives them room to expand, but they're still up against the fact that they're only connected to the Alliance heartland by sea and airplane (or rotodaens with a stop in Gibhalter); Port Maple, by contrast, is actually more or less in the heartland, has fertile land instead of desert to expand into, and is closer to both Elusive City and the recolonization front. It's also more attractive to immigrants, since it lacks the intrusiveness of heavy Company dominance and the... Miliozi-ness of heavy Miliozi dominance.

"Bless" is a synthetic drug which has very recently appeared on the market, of unknown origin.

Its effects includes, among other thing and like the name would indicate, a feeling of peace and well-being, and is also a very powerful painkiller. It is however, and as can be expected, extremely addictive, and dangerously so as withdrawal is extremely violent, making victims enter into a state of mindless rage.

Harmony wrote:How does that make for a news bulletin ?

Spoiler:

Sounds good! I think that "has refused to comment on this new" may be a typo, though.

Do you have Stockhast and the northern coast under control of the Stockings (I'd still like a better name...)?

Harmony Ltd. wrote:White Peak Incorporated would be a Geneighva-based corporation, Lady Edelweiss of the Lake Keep being a noble-pony ghoul from the city's stable (you know, the one obsessed with medical science), born Pre-War.

It would be one of the biggest business in the Republic of Geneighva and bringer of foreign currencies, with another company that sells newly manufactured Stable-Tec parts from the blueprints they have, for a hefty sum.

Geneighva is at peace with the NCR and under its (unilateral) protection: while Geneighva is glad for the added security, they would rather stay independent for the time being.

This also sounds good. Thanks for the reminder of the Geneighva Stable's speciality, too; I'm afraid that I had forgotten.

Harmony wrote:"Bless" is a synthetic drug which has very recently appeared on the market, of unknown origin.

Its effects includes, among other thing and like the name would indicate, a feeling of peace and well-being, and is also a very powerful painkiller. It is however, and as can be expected, extremely addictive, and dangerously so as withdrawal is extremely violent, making victims enter into a state of mindless rage.

This is surely in no way a plot by nefarious parties. :D

Was thinking of making Geneighva a Noble Republic, ruled by a council of Houses electing a Prince/Princess.

Because when more than half of your population is immortal and a fifth is of noble descent, things are bound to get weird.

O. Hinds wrote:Sounds good!  I think that "has refused to comment on this new" may be a typo, though.

Would it be "news" instead?

O. Hinds wrote:Do you have Stockhast and the northern coast under control of the Stockings (I'd still like a better name...)?

I thought about "Northern League", or "League of the North", with Stockhast as its "capital" (it's more of a relatively loose alliance reacting to the NCR's expansion than a real political entity).

Harmony wrote:Was thinking of making Geneighva a Noble Republic, ruled by a council of Houses electing a Prince/Princess.

Because when more than half of your population is immortal and a fifth is of noble descent, things are bound to get weird.

Makes sense.

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Sounds good!  I think that "has refused to comment on this new" may be a typo, though.

Would it be "news" instead?

Ah, if that's what you meant, then yes.

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Do you have Stockhast and the northern coast under control of the Stockings (I'd still like a better name...)?

I thought about "Northern League", or "League of the North", with Stockhast as its "capital" (it's more of a relatively loose alliance reacting to the NCR's expansion than a real political entity).

Ah. Any relation to the Stockings (such as being led by them or being their territory under a grander name), or is this separate?

We'll also have to see how PH turns out. Hoofington could be a crater having no effect on the Northern League, it could be a giant pile of scrap that the Northern League becomes wealthy controlling the trade routes to and from, the Northern League might not exist due to the area being part of the Hoofington Empire... I lack more information than I have here, and what little I do know I can't say.

O. Hinds wrote:

Harmony wrote:Was thinking of making Geneighva a Noble Republic, ruled by a council of Houses electing a Prince/Princess.

Because when more than half of your population is immortal and a fifth is of noble descent, things are bound to get weird.

Makes sense.

Add to that that the people in the Geneighva Stable (A demonstration Stable, outfitted with almost all of the latest gizmos) [1], thus those who have become ghouls & immortal, are the ones who were Nobles. Well, a bit under half of them anyway.

Those who took refuge into the prototype Stables around Geneighva (merely holes in the ground with some amount of life-support, which later evolved into a full-blown network of interconnected Stables as the decades and then centuries passed and they put to use the digging equipment at their disposal) were common people, mostly Stable-tec employees.

Then there's the manufacturing-oriented Stable, that got hijacked by the Colonel of the local garrison when the bombs fell.

That local environment makes for a fragmented demographic that would tend to slip into clans with differing interests. Houses kinda has a better ring to it. And for once in that Princesses forsaken wasteland, people quickly understood that they had more to lose by not cooperating with each other than the contrary. So after a while the "Republic of Geneighva" was born. The Nobles naturally took the lead. Noblesse Oblige.

It also helped that the place was geographically isolated, well armed, easily defensible, and that the level of ambient radiation on the surface stayed high enough long enough to dissuade raiders from trying to pillage the city's ruins and their inhabitants. So they got a pretty good start compared to most other places in the Wasteland.


[1]: If you don't remember, Geneighva was the headquarter of Stable-Tec, or at least of its Engineering division.

O. Hinds wrote:

Harmony wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Do you have Stockhast and the northern coast under control of the Stockings (I'd still like a better name...)?

I thought about "Northern League", or "League of the North", with Stockhast as its "capital" (it's more of a relatively loose alliance reacting to the NCR's expansion than a real political entity).

Ah.  Any relation to the Stockings (such as being led by them or being their territory under a grander name), or is this separate?

Until further notice, it's the Stockings by another name.

I've got the impression I'm letting myself be somewhat influenced by the tone of Shadowrun lately...

Harmony wrote:If you don't remember, Geneighva was the headquarter of Stable-Tec, or at least of its Engineering division.

Aye, the actual overall company headquarters was in Fillydelphia, and R&D was in Hoofington. I suppose that Engineering was where they took care of the fiddly bits of known stuff?

Harmony wrote:Add to that that the people in the Geneighva Stable (A demonstration Stable, outfitted with almost all of the latest gizmos) [1], thus those who have become ghouls & immortal, are the ones who were Nobles. Well, a bit under half of them anyway.

Those who took refuge into the prototype Stables around Geneighva (merely holes in the ground with some amount of life-support, which later evolved into a full-blown network of interconnected Stables as the decades and then centuries passed and they put to use the digging equipment at their disposal) were common people, mostly Stable-tec employees.

Then there's the manufacturing-oriented Stable, that got hijacked by the Colonel of the local garrison when the bombs fell.

That local environment makes for a fragmented demographic that would tend to slip into clans with differing interests. Houses kinda has a better ring to it. And for once in that Princesses forsaken wasteland, people quickly understood that they had more to lose by not cooperating with each other than the contrary. So after a while the "Republic of Geneighva" was born. The Nobles naturally took the lead. Noblesse Oblige.

It also helped that the place was geographically isolated, well armed, easily defensible, and that the level of ambient radiation on the surface stayed high enough long enough to dissuade raiders from trying to pillage the city's ruins and their inhabitants. So they got a pretty good start compared to most other places in the Wasteland.

Sounds good.

By the way, yesterday I had an idea for a "third chance" Stable, a Stable fitted out like a control Stable but meant to stay closed and hidden as long as it could, even if the surface became perfectly habitable again, just in case there was a second apocalypse. I'm thinking that maybe it could be the source of the Hero of the Moojave (maybe due to a fault in the water system), though I've not got many details at the moment.

Harmony wrote:Until further notice, it's the Stockings by another name.

Righto. I actually just got back from watching a documentary on viking swords with my mother, so this is a kind of appropriate topic of conversation.

Harmony wrote:I've got the impression I'm letting myself be somewhat influenced by the tone of Shadowrun lately...

:)

To caricature a bit...

This is Alliance-made music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf8FCLT8S6A

This is NCR-made music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbDqXr6LbXo


The first is calculated and computed to be liked by as many people as possible, and disliked by as few people as possible. As a result, it's bland, stale, and end up all sounding the same.

The second is made by individuals who just want to express whatever they want to express, not caring about pleasing everyone - in fact, often artists take some satisfaction at pissing off some parts of the demographic. It's mostly a way for people to express their freedom.

O. Hinds wrote:

Harmony wrote:If you don't remember, Geneighva was the headquarter of Stable-Tec, or at least of its Engineering division.

Aye, the actual overall company headquarters was in Fillydelphia, and R&D was in Hoofington.  I suppose that Engineering was where they took care of the fiddly bits of known stuff?

Manufacturing of parts, the actual digging of the stables, etc...

Thinking about it, they probably have the tech AND the tooling to produce brand new pipbucks, complete with their various talismans. As long as they get the raw materials, at least.

Another incentive for the NCR to play nice with them, I guess.

O. Hinds wrote:Sounds good.

By the way, yesterday I had an idea for a "third chance" Stable, a Stable fitted out like a control Stable but meant to stay closed and hidden as long as it could, even if the surface became perfectly habitable again, just in case there was a second apocalypse.  I'm thinking that maybe it could be the source of the Hero of the Moojave (maybe due to a fault in the water system), though I've not got many details at the moment.

Wouldn't the most likely possibility be that it was a "popsicle" stable, with its inhabitants kept in suspended animation? Given it could have as well needed to operate for a thousand year or more for all Stable-tec knew, it would make the most sense to take the solution that would put the less strain possible on the Stable's life-support systems and bear the least chance of societal failure.

As a consequence, it would also probably be almost entirely automated.

The question would be, what would be the trigger to thaw at least the scout patrol tasked to check the surface?

O. Hinds wrote:

Harmony wrote:Until further notice, it's the Stockings by another name.

Righto.  I actually just got back from watching a documentary on viking swords with my mother, so this is a kind of appropriate topic of conversation.

The way I was thinking about it, the "League" would be the Viking equivalent ruling Stockhast (the Stockings), and because they're the most powerful actors in the region (or at least the most expansive), they kind of took the lead of the alliance of interest going on up there to resist the NCR's attempts colonizing the region.

If you remove the two planets/moon in the sky, does this seem like a good representation of what the Moojave could look like ?

Harmony wrote:To caricature a bit...

This is Alliance-made music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf8FCLT8S6A

This is NCR-made music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbDqXr6LbXo


The first is calculated and computed to be liked by as many people as possible, and disliked by as few people as possible. As a result, it's bland, stale, and end up all sounding the same.

The second is made by individuals who just want to express whatever they want to express, not caring about pleasing everyone - in fact, often artists take some satisfaction at pissing off some parts of the demographic. It's mostly a way for people to express their freedom.

Yeah, that makes sense; I'm glad that you thought of this. I'm a bit surprised that the NCR has such free expression, though.

Oh, I would say that there are two caveats to the Alliance music thing, though. Firstly, the broad category of "Alliance music" would also include Miliozi music and stuff coming from the zebra cultures in the areas of recolonization (particularly the Pax Novae Roamae); the latter, though, is not terribly well promoted even inside the Alliance, being mostly local, and the former is mostly comprised of marches written on the theme of "We are awesome and the most important piece of equipment any other army has is the white flag" and therefore not terribly likely to be aired in the NCR.
The second caveat is that there are still independent artists in the Alliance, particularly in Las Pegasus and Port Maple. Outside their local areas, though, these tend to be promoted only by word of mouth (accepting a Company contract would remove the "independent" from "independent artist", and you just try Alliance-wide advertising without help from the Company), and export would be similarly limited. Given the massive amount of widely-palateable music (though to varying degrees; Elusive will sometimes let an artist cater to a more limited demographic) that the Company churns out and the fact that this is even more disproportionately represented in exports, I'd say it's quite understandable that it is what Alliance music has come to mean abroad.

Harmony wrote:Manufacturing of parts, the actual digging of the stables, etc...

Ah, thanks.

Harmony wrote:Thinking about it, they probably have the tech AND the tooling to produce brand new pipbucks, complete with their various talismans. As long as they get the raw materials, at least.

Another incentive for the NCR to play nice with them, I guess.

Aye.

Harmony wrote:Wouldn't the most likely possibility be that it was a "popsicle" stable, with its inhabitants kept in suspended animation? Given it could have as well needed to operate for a thousand year or more for all Stable-tec knew, it would make the most sense to take the solution that would put the less strain possible on the Stable's life-support systems and bear the least chance of societal failure.

As a consequence, it would also probably be almost entirely automated.

The question would be, what would be the trigger to thaw at least the scout patrol tasked to check the surface?

Hm, that's a point. On the one hoof, suspended animation would mean no cultural development (with all the risks that it poses) and less wear on the Stable's systems. On the other, suspended animation technology is still relatively untested, and, as we know from PH, it had some flaws. Using suspended animation tech would clearly be the better option if it could be relied on to work, but a failure could potentially take out the entire Stable… Hm… It would be some interesting culture shock, though… And maybe some sort of stasis system malfunction that's not immediately problematic but could be fatal in the long term is what spurs the thawing?

Harmony wrote:The way I was thinking about it, the "League" would be the Viking equivalent ruling Stockhast (the Stockings), and because they're the most powerful actors in the region (or at least the most expansive), they kind of took the lead of the alliance of interest going on up there to resist the NCR's attempts colonizing the region.

Aye, that makes sense.

Harmony wrote:If you remove the two planets/moon in the sky, does this seem like a good representation of what the Moojave could look like ?

It looks fine to me. Hopefully Meleagridis will stop by here again soon.

O. Hinds wrote:I'm a bit surprised that the NCR has such free expression, though.

Well, the calculation here is pretty simple:

- The NCR comes from the Wasteland, which has as one of its most salient cultural trait rugged individualism;
- If the people of the NCR are ready to accept giving up a bit of freedom in the name of security (universal conscription, mandatory inoculations,...), you sure as hell will not be able to restrict their freedom of speech.

So its basically a gamble in the part of the people in charge: by letting people freely expressing their opinions, they:

- give them a non-violent outlet for their everyday frustration,
- allow the pervasive intelligence-gathering aparatus of the NCR to better keep track of who thinks what of what (one of the role of the Political Officers is to keep track of that kind of things)

As long as people don't incite other to hatred or acts of violence, the authorities prefer to not interfere with free speech.

O. Hinds wrote:Hm, that's a point.  On the one hoof, suspended animation would mean no cultural development (with all the risks that it poses) and less wear on the Stable's systems.  On the other, suspended animation technology is still relatively untested, and, as we know from PH, it had some flaws.  Using suspended animation tech would clearly be the better option if it could be relied on to work, but a failure could potentially take out the entire Stable…  Hm…  It would be some interesting culture shock, though…  And maybe some sort of stasis system malfunction that's not immediately problematic but could be fatal in the long term is what spurs the thawing?

Alternatively, it could be The Matrix, with the Stable's inhabitants plugged in a virtual reality in which they would live their entire life, unaware of the fact they are in a Stable, or even in virtual reality?

The stable would then keep them happy and healthy in their virtual world until it would be needed for its inhabitants to recolonize the world.

I dunno, throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Harmony wrote:Well, the calculation here is pretty simple:

- The NCR comes from the Wasteland, which has as one of its most salient cultural trait rugged individualism;
- If the people of the NCR are ready to accept giving up a bit of freedom in the name of security (universal conscription, mandatory inoculations,...), you sure as hell will not be able to restrict their freedom of speech.

So its basically a gamble in the part of the people in charge: by letting people freely expressing their opinions, they:

- give them a non-violent outlet for their everyday frustration,
- allow the pervasive intelligence-gathering aparatus of the NCR to better keep track of who thinks what of what (one of the role of the Political Officers is to keep track of that kind of things)

As long as people don't incite other to hatred or acts of violence, the authorities prefer to not interfere with free speech.

Ah, yes, I wasn't thinking deeply enough.  Sorry.

Harmony wrote:Alternatively, it could be The Matrix, with the Stable's inhabitants plugged in a virtual reality in which they would live their entire life, unaware of the fact they are in a Stable, or even in virtual reality?

The stable would then keep them happy and healthy in their virtual world until it would be needed for its inhabitants to recolonize the world.

I dunno, throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Hm…  No, that's probably even worse.  You'd still have the problem of malfunctions (indeed, you'd have even more stuff to malfunction), but you'd also have cultural develop pretty much guaranteed to be counterproductive.  Why would the ponies who didn't even know that the world was destroyed have any desire to rebuild it when they could just stay in their nice not-blown-up VR?  Sure, one could say that they'll want to leave once they know that it's virtual reality, and some probably will; most, though, will want to stay, and even those who don't probably won't have developed the skills they'd need outside.

IIRC, the problem with suspended animation was/is that people keep their consciousness, right? So the trick would be to keep them unconscious, or at least give them something to occupy their mind during the centuries of doing nothing.

That's why I thought of Virtual Reality.

...

Huh... Suddenly I'm thinking of diabolical little girls...

Or heck, what about the people in the stasis pods, who are still conscious, commanding robots as surrogate bodies and going about their business in the Stable while their actual bodies are preserved?

Harmony wrote:IIRC, the problem with suspended animation was/is that people keep their consciousness, right? So the trick would be to keep them unconscious, or at least give them something to occupy their mind during the centuries of doing nothing.

That's why I thought of Virtual Reality.

Hm... Yes, this is rather a complicated problem.

Harmony wrote:Huh... Suddenly I'm thinking of diabolical little girls...

I've still not gotten Fo3 to work, unfortunately.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Or heck, what about the people in the stasis pods, who are still conscious, commanding robots as surrogate bodies and going about their business in the Stable while their actual bodies are preserved?

Wouldn't that run into the same mental issue that cyberponies have to worry about, though?

O. Hinds wrote:

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Or heck, what about the people in the stasis pods, who are still conscious, commanding robots as surrogate bodies and going about their business in the Stable while their actual bodies are preserved?

Wouldn't that run into the same mental issue that cyberponies have to worry about, though?

I don't think so. They can just decide to stop using the robots as surrogate bodies, and still have their own. IIRC the problematic with cyberponies is that they have lost parts of their original bodies, which has been replaced with something artificial, foreign, which they cannot take back without endangering their lives.

If anything, the problem would be that they wouldn't feel anything at all from their own suspended bodies, so they might need some kind of stimulation so that their brains doesn't "forget" what it's like to have a body.