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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by StoneSlinger88 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:28 pm

From what we've seen earlier on when Rampage had her head slashed off by Blueblood, was that it takes a little while to grow back. Putting the head back on the body may have just sped up the healing process.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Downloaded Skill on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:32 pm

Well the current problem right now is that Rampage was moving around and taking complex actions.  Putting the head back on her shoulders could very well speed up the healing process, but she would still be immobile in the mean time. Rampage was a corpse after she was decapitated in that scene right?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Evilgidgit on Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:09 pm

A very good and emotional chapter, Somber. Top marks.

Spoiler:
So is Blackjack now a cybernetic alicorn?

I didn't cry when Lacunae died, I just spent about half an hour wandering around the nature trail I was walking aorund in a state of sadness. At least she and Psalm can be at peace now. Though I have become curious about Boo. Could Lacunae have survived in some form in her? No idea how to back up this theory. Just an idea.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:49 pm

Evilgidgit wrote:A very good and emotional chapter, Somber. Top marks.

Spoiler:
So is Blackjack now a cybernetic alicorn?

I didn't cry when Lacunae died, I just spent about half an hour wandering around the nature trail I was walking aorund in a state of sadness. At least she and Psalm can be at peace now. Though I have become curious about Boo. Could Lacunae have survived in some form in her? No idea how to back up this theory. Just an idea.

 Nope.  She never got dipped.  Now she never will.

And that's a very good idea.  :D

From what we've seen earlier on when Rampage had her head slashed off by Blueblood, was that it takes a little while to grow back. Putting the head back on the body may have just sped up the healing process.

Also, when her head was cut off, it kept trotting.  Rampage's mind and primary sensory organs are in her brain, but her soul is in her body.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by thatguyvex on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Alright, just finished with the chapter, time to put in my two-caps.

Spoilerific Commentary:
So the entire first half of this chapter was a fun read. Blackjack's mental shenanigans with the Goddess screwing with her, the way she would start just tactically analyzing how to kill Littlepip and crew without even realizing what she was doing, was pretty chilling. Thoroughly enjoyed the actual interactions with the Goddess and the scenes leading up through her death. Liked the duality of there being the cold, objective focused and driving 'Goddess' persona that was basically a separate entity from the actual core souls of the ponies that made up her parts.

So all that stuff was good and I dug it. I also pretty much enjoyed the second part of the chapter, just... got a couple of things that also bugged me.

First of all, the entire time Blackjack and Lac are talking about Lac's impending "death" I couldn't get into the emotional state of the scene. Couldn't get sad. Too busy being confused by the metaphysics of what's happening. I mean, I know there were explanations in there about what was going on and why, but it all went straight over my head and, honestly, sounded... well like the mental equivalent of Star Trek technobabble. Also curious where Lac's personal memories went? I mean, I get she returned all the memories that belonged to other alicorns, but what about the one's that are just hers? They still sitting in her (Pslams?) body? Anyway, I wanted to get more invested in that entire thing, as main character death is supposed to be a big deal, but spent the entire time just scratching my head too much to let the tears flow, as it were.

Other thing that bugged me, more of a minor nitpick and personal pet peeve, is Blackjack's inconsistency with her lethal/non-lethal combat. She really flip-flops on the matter. What I mean is... okay so she doesn't even hesitate to use full on lethal force on the Enclave that attacked her. Not even the slightest attempt at disabling weapons, limbs, or knocking ponies out. Just straight up murder-time until the last dude surrendered. Okay. Then, one scene later, she gets all weepy and pleading with the hellhounds to leave her alone so she doesn't have to kill them, and tries to use non-lethal force right from the get to.

This is... really inconsistent behaviour. Okay, yes, Blackjack, queen of mental issues, but still. You'd think that, if she's so dead set against killing unless she has to, that the more squishy Enclave would be easier to disable than hellhounds. Hellhound hide pretty much shrugs off things better than power armor, and energy weapons are easy to destroy, so you'd think neutralizing the Enclave would be the simpler prospect than the hellhounds, yet Blackjack doesn't even try with the Enclave, but does with the hellhounds. Makes no sense. Blackjack, stop making no sense, you non-sense making mare you!

And while I'm on the topic, would it have been that hard to target the sniper from the Society's rifle instead of their head? Its not like the penalties for called shots are worse on weapons than on the head.

For a pony that wants to avoid killing so much, you don't seem to consider non-lethal options as often as you should.

Get some non-lethal weapons if it bothers you so much. Dart guns, some stun batons, flash-bang grenades. Be more proactive in your intentions to avoid killing. Maybe look into learning a stun version of your TK bullets.

Okay, okay, nitpicking done. Carry on.

So, final positive notes; Glory with dragonhide armor and rainbow gun = bloody glorious. I'm going to chock Rampage remote controlling her body via her severed head as a new Perk she's gained, Headless Rage. Her anger is so powerful it acts as a remote signal for her to move her body, even while the head is severed. Boo in a captains hate makes me 'daww'. I also find it more amusing than I should the notion that their airship is powered by Rampage. You see, this is why you never play an Earth Pony; you get the crap jobs by default.

Overall, good chapter, despite the few issues I had with it.

... Serious Blackjack, look into dart guns. Worked for Solid Snake, they can work for you.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:16 pm

BJ... With dart guns? Would she ever get a kill again? Might be better for her well being if she never knew such a thing existed.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:24 pm

"Captain Boo" : as with every time boo is involved and does something cute, I dunno why but the first thing that cross my mind is ""Hey Wave', this is your cue, Somber set you up for this !". Spike 
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Derpmind on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:40 pm

Somber wrote:
Evilgidgit wrote:
Spoiler:
At least she and Psalm can be at peace now. Though I have become curious about Boo. Could Lacunae have survived in some form in her? No idea how to back up this theory. Just an idea.

And that's a very good idea.  :D

Ugh. I know there's been lots of discussion about using Boo for this or that, but to be honest I think it's all stupid. 'Using' Boo is ignoring how Boo owns her own body. And saying that Boo somehow doesn't have a soul or a mind is contradicting everything we've seen from her. I'm not going to get angry about it, but I've always strongly disagreed with everyone advocating these ideas. It's just not being nice to Boo. I know lots of us think of her as more a pet than a pony, but she's not an animal. She communicates non-verbally and has been given a pet-like name, but she's been shown to have a thinking mind. And even if you think she's more animal than pony, filling her with another soul is always based on the assumption that there's nothing to kill in the first place.

thatguyvex wrote:
Spoilerific Commentary:
Also curious where Lac's personal memories went? I mean, I get she returned all the memories that belonged to other alicorns, but what about the one's that are just hers? They still sitting in her (Pslams?) body?

Spoiler:
Lacunae was a very strange being, but wasn't she at her base still built off of Psalm? Maybe Psalm will come back together, and keep some memories of being Lacunae? Psalm isn't Lacuane, but I'd like some part of Lacuane to live on, and for Psalm to have a second chance.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

@Boo
Well, I mean, it's not exactly what you'd call unprecedented in this story to put multiple souls in one body. =P
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Derpmind on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:50 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@Boo
Well, I mean, it's not exactly what you'd call unprecedented in this story to put multiple souls in one body. =P

Applejack Right. That. Yeah.

perfect counterargument:


Applebloom Yeah, ya got me there.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:22 pm

A colorless creature ? Was that a thing before the 10th Edition ?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:25 pm

If it's colorless, it should be an Artifact Creature (Yay, I get to contribute something to this thread instead of lurking!)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:29 pm

@Derp
I mean in fairness it could still be a really bad idea, ethically! I mean, I feel like Boo would be okay with it - might even be good for her to share the space with somepony who could communicate directly to her exactly what's going on, though she seems to get on fine as it is - but it would still raise some interesting ethical questions viz: consent and stuff. I mean, it's like donating part of your liver, in a way, except way more so.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Valikdu on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:54 pm

I have probably missed this in the chapter...
I'm going to read it again later (I liked it), but I have a question: where did Psalm's soul go if not to the original body?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:07 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@Derp
I mean in fairness it could still be a really bad idea, ethically! I mean, I feel like Boo would be okay with it - might even be good for her to share the space with somepony who could communicate directly to her exactly what's going on, though she seems to get on fine as it is - but it would still raise some interesting ethical questions viz: consent and stuff. I mean, it's like donating part of your liver, in a way, except way more so.
Two words :

Body Colonialism

I'll let you think a bit about that one.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:34 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@Derp
I mean in fairness it could still be a really bad idea, ethically! I mean, I feel like Boo would be okay with it - might even be good for her to share the space with somepony who could communicate directly to her exactly what's going on, though she seems to get on fine as it is - but it would still raise some interesting ethical questions viz: consent and stuff. I mean, it's like donating part of your liver, in a way, except way more so.
Two words :

Body Colonialism

I'll let you think a bit about that one.

(Credit to MisterMech for the original)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:36 pm

swicked wrote:That said, I didn't like this chapter. It rubbed me the wrong way too many times, despite the quality writing for most of the rest of it.

Edit: Oh, and no commentary, this time.
Sorry that you didn't like it.  There was that one chapter of MN7 that I ended up mostly skimming, though, so I think I know the feeling.
Oh, though it did occur to me, regarding your complaint about the time estimate: perhaps it sounds like a computer because it is a computer?  With so much of Blackjack's mind stripped away, maybe her onboard systems are picking up slack.  Just an idea; I don't know if it's at all correct.

WavemasterRyx wrote:I'll try to write my actual commentary later, once I've stopped crying, so it may be a few days, sorry, Somber. It was a very well done chapter though, I don't care what anyone else says.

For now though, I think I can sum up all my thoughts on the chapter with this.
Spoiler:

Goodbye, Lacunae...
Yes, I saw that on your tumblr and thought that that was probably what it was for; I think that it does its job quite well.  Good luck with the crying (hopefully you don't wear glasses; I do, so whenever my eyes water too much I have a choice between disabling my vision for a bit or getting saltwater stains on the lenses).


@swicked:
Ah, thank you for the error spotting.

Somber wrote:Right now I'm in extreme pain from a bad tooth.  Take everything I say with that in mind.
Oh dear, it's gotten worse?  Good luck.

Downloaded Skill wrote:Well the thing is spine severing and brain destruction wouldn't make a difference from a functional standpoint. If the spine is severed there is no pathway for the brain to send commands. If the brain is destroyed it can't send commands. Either way it would be impossible for the body to move beyond twitches and death throes that normally result when someone dies. What Rampage did after she died was more sophisticated than that.
Through purely physical channels, yes, but we already know that there's a lot of magic, particularly soul magic, involved with Rampage.

Downloaded Skill wrote:The scene was humorous, but it didn't make sense considering what was established about how Rampage dies and reincarnates. Its just a consistency issue. I don't mean to insult your work. I love it very much which is why I'm voicing my thoughts on the matter in a, hopefully, respectful manner.
If we postulate an immaterial connection, I believe that we may come to a system in which the displayed behavior would be possible until the brain in the severed head died, and it seems to be that there could be time for the described events before that happened.


@Overlong Analysis Cobalt:
Philosophy, yay!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:07 pm

@ OAC : Hah. Well, at least I hope you got my point, from an ethical standpoint at least.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:23 pm

Running Thoughts:
It’s the idea of gravity pulling you downward. The sense that there was some force constantly clutching at you simply because it could. It didn’t matter how hard you tried or what you wanted, gravity was always there; inescapable, inexhaustible, and unforgiving.

Perhaps Twilight has something to say about it?


‘wanted to give you this. Take Fleur and go home. Stop Lighthoves. Hope I see you again. Sorrie if I don’t. Talk to‘ And I tumbled a little bit more as gravity compelled me to scribble out the last two words. ‘Love you. Blackjack.’

**Need to compare to suicide note.


“I know, Blackjack.” I looked into her sad eyes and touched my horn to hers. Together, we triggered the spell, her magic supported by my own meager offering. Together, we disappeared.

A lovely start. Good restraint.


She wanted a trump card.

You know, this phrasing makes me think about the exact nature of the communication between them, as it seems to me that "trump card," though certainly a common metaphor (at least to us, if not necessarily to the ponies) would resonate much more with Blackjack than the Goddess. And it was the Goddess that first used that, right?


I’d be more than her Lacunae; I’d be her personal hitpony. Her executioner.

Well then. Fitting.


Popping its catches, I opened the case and looked at the disassembled Penance in its padding.

It had to happen.


“If you really want my advice, though, get the fuck out of the Hoof as fast as you can,” I said calmly. “This place will fucking kill you.”

The contrast between her lines and acts is great.


“How… how could a… a nothing… a nopony… a neverpony… have friends?”

Possible setup for a last friendship report?


“If only we could execute you safely…”

Irony's a bitch.


Hundreds of souls all humming in harmony, but it was a spiritless tune…

Callback to the one great star, with a twist?


In a rush, I was learning more about the Stabl...


It probably won't live up to the build-up, but here's hoping.


Time… there just wasn’t enough of it. Not enough time with Spike. Not enough time with my friends. Not even enough time with my magic. When was the last time I did an all-night book trawl of Starswirl’s spells? Or even just read a book because I wanted to read it?

I like the feel of the true memory, so far, though I suppose it's not really new, after all the Psalm ones.


“Glamourous? Stunning? Beautific?” Rarity suggested at once, bringing a smile to my face.

Just because I was thinking of it earlier tonight . . . Pulchritudinous.


“And I could give him my Rarity. So he’ll always have the love of his life.”

Saw it coming. Still tearing up.


What would Twilight have ended up as if she hadn’t accepted Luna’s offer? Wizard? Princess? Wife?

Damn it. That's just distracting, and in context largely unfounded.


Would Fluttershy have committed high treason if she’d never been put in a position where she could do so?

Tautologically, no.


A few males; it would depend on how the Black book would make the changes, but the Goddess had no interest in creating an equal distribution of sexes; she knew the effectiveness of Stable 99.

Because she wasn't evil enough already? Fine, given the Lacunae-connection, fine; it's monstrous, but it did "work."


New alicorn types, perhaps red ones that specialized in fire or white ones that specialized in ice would be developed and evolved.

Sunset Shimmer and Snowdrop? Or nopony in particular, or at any rate not a recent reference?


One note united forever.

Oh, definitely.


A Twilight more machine than mare, fulfilling Trixie’s ego.

Not the biggest fan of this one.


The Goddess had become like a void sucking in everything good and transforming it into more of itself.

Laying it on a little thick now.


Would it stay on this world, when every last living thing was altered to suit it? Or would thousands of purples and millions of greens teleport them to distant stars and innocent worlds?

Just slathering it on.


An echo whispered in my mind. “It fucking sucks not to remember.”

Nice touch.


I tried to flap my wings, but I was aberrant as well. Heavy.

I hadn't thought of that.


The boxcar had disappeared too.

I audibly laughed.


“Why didn’t you just kill me? I’d rather you’d done that,”

In a way, turnabout.


“You don’t kill your friends, Blackjack,” she replied with a pained smile.

Yep.


“Heals. Now. Or I’ll blow my brains out and laugh at you from the afterlife as LittlePip kills you. I’ll even get a special spot in hell ready just for you,” I hissed, my muscles shaking as I kept all my focus on the trigger. I think, like this, Glory would forgive me for breaking my promise to her.

A nice moment.


In a rainbow cloud, the ring of alicorns began to fly towards the building.

A rainbow cloud, entirely on the high-frequency part of the spectrum.


I think I can modify Shining Armor’s shield spell, though.


“I know you cannot forgive me for what I have done to you.”
All that she’d done… I suppose it’d been quite a bit, at that. Still. “Hey. No problem,” I answered, sincerely.

Generosity.


“You stupid sons of mules!” I shouted as I pulled out the dueling pistols and targeted the lead pony.

Interesting choice; now she's BJ again, I thought she might have used their names, especially here.


“Oh brown rain!”

This joke's a little weak.


“Fly, you idiot!”

In contrast, "fool" would have worked very well here. Of course, there was a bit of an uproar last time there was a LOTR reference.


“Don’t you die, Blackjack!” Lacunae warned, but it was so hot and I was so tired and hadn’t I earned it?

Yes, yes you have. But it's too bad, if believable, that you still feel that way.


The Stable Dweller should have done… something. Something better. Warned the Hellhounds! Evacuated the Enclave! Something!

Well, in fairness she didn't know about the Enclave.


Why are the Hellhounds coming from above ground?


“What are you doing here?” I blurted in amazement at Lancer.

A good question. But then a party slot did just open up.


Somepony had put an old captain’s hat on her head, and the sight was so ridiculous and precious that I couldn’t keep from smiling a little when I looked over at her.

Begin the Ryx countdown.
Editing:
knowing exactly what she meant. The Goddess pulled at my every thought,

Only one space after the period.


and certainly not that undersized pain in our ass is going to stop us!” Unity roared into her like an avalanche.

I think there should only be one space after this quotation.


[this time I didn’t land on my face, since Lacunae’s own radiation-empowered body provided most of the power.

Consider replacing one of the instances of "power"?]


The memories she did retain were banal and functionary things:

"Functional": functionary is not an adjective.


I took the memory into myself --don’t ask me how, that was being handled at a higher level-- and Lacunae’s mindscape swirled away.

Symmetrical spacing of dashes.


I keep your dirty laundry out of the press and history books and you don’t harass me.” Rarity countered.

Quotation should end with comma, not period.


wasn’t the dream come true I’d Imagined years ago,

"Imagined" shouldn't be capitalized.


There were shadows around her eyes and a gauntness that looked as if she hadn’t eaten in days.

I'd suggest "looked" to "made her look."


and then started to pull up the tape very… Oh, Rarity was giving me the

Second space needed after ellipsis.


or Princess Celestia… or…” mom.

Should "mom" be capitalized?


“What’s the Goddess-damned point!?” I screamed aloud and through Unity.

"Goddesses-damned"? Or is she having fun here?


You can’t even imagine what she might have up her PipBuck sleeve. New possibilities of deicide bloomed in my mind

Only one space after the period.


How dumb does that make y-!”

Second hyphen for dash.


She would not target myself, but the aberrant’s powerful rifle would be problematic.

Suggest "myself" -> "me."


The blue raised her shield; the greens pumping the anti-kinetic shield to maximum;

Suggest first semicolon to comma or pumping to pumped.


The aberrant was saying the word ‘Blackjack’ over and over again, but what relevance a gambling card game played I couldn’t imagine.

I guess it depends on general quotation capitalization practice, but I think the impact would be greater with "Blackjack" not capitalized, and the game isn't--necessarily, at least--capitalized.


one of the rusted box cars.

"boxcars" is one word.


The dropped boxcar rocked as the two greens telekinetically heaved it off them.

Would this be "themselves"?


wait…who?”

Space needed after ellipsis.


Beneath the power armor wings, small pegasi camera teams flew about capturing the glorious sight.

Pegasus camera teams.


half accusingly and half questionly. An illusion hid my rifle from

Only one space after the period.


a pair of greens replied to the camera teams in unison. “She serves the

Only one space after the period.


It…It is not important!”

Should be two spaces after ellipsis, or just one and second "it" not capitalized.


The lingering, teasing melody of those four names and the emotions associated with them played in the back of the Goddess’ mind.

Goddess's


Glory-- no, Rainbow Dash answered.

Symmetrical spacing about dash.


Being earth ponies, the missus and I couldn’t teach em magic at all.”

Apostrophe before em?


your children will excel at my school for gifted unicorns.” Celestia said,

Quotation should end with comma, not period.


“Brava, Trixie! Très bon!

Second space needed after first bang.


“We must survive!” The Goddess roared.
“Legacy?” The Goddess scoffed.
Probably shouldn't have "the" capitalized.


It didn’t matter; already the gravity was pulling my aim back to small mare.

The small mare.


“I… I…What have I done?”

Two spaces needed after second ellipsis.


“Without the IMP biomatrix, our ability to remain cohesive will be severely compromised and will last only hours at best,” Mosaic explained.

I.M.P.


While his armor tried to lift back to the skies, his viscera was pulled into the dirt.

"Viscera" is plural.


Doubtful.no. no

Spacing/punctuation, capitalization?


Don’t think about-- and I was so busy not thinking that I
A few things --scorched radhogs, weird floating plants, and agitated radroaches-- made suicide attacks on me.

Symmetrical spacing around dash.


The roar of a dozen beam weapons tearing at the stones around me voiced their sentiment on the revese matter.

"reverse"


It was almost as if they were waiting for some-

Dash needs second hyphen.


Her kindness and humility was all the more emphasized by what she’d been connected to.

Were, not was.


The anti-material round blasted right through the skull of the purple beside me from directly above.

Probably "anti-machine"; that's the only anti-material so far in PH.


“Glamourous? Stunning? Beautific?”

"Glamorous"


I opened the panel and glanced down at my pipbuck, frowned,
I would have lingered, but the ash was making my Pipbuck tick.
At first I was upset, but when we found out Lacunae was gone too and your pipbuck had been torn out,
“I held on to your pipbuck, Blackjack,”
Scotch Tape returned my delta pipbuck to where it belonged as P-21 held her.

"PipBuck"; in the last one, "Delta" should also be capitalized.


45: and an earth pony buck with an almost comically wide-brimmed hat singing about the Everafter.
47: I went to the Everafter... and then...
52: Or maybe it was as simple as Celestia and Luna still managing things from the Everafter.
53: I could almost imagine my mother looking at me from the Everafter.
58: I suspect that so many memories of Twilight’s were put into me that, when the Goddess died, Twilight’s soul was attracted to me rather than the Everafter,

Everafter normally isn't capitalized.

Also, do you like Black Book capitalized, or un-? There were a couple instances of capitalized early on, then until pretty recently it was uncapitalized.
Overall Thoughts:
Well, that was quite a thing. I finished reading it about ten hours before I started writing this, so hopefully I won't mess up my recollections too badly. Anyway, there were some little bits of the chapter I didn't care for, which mostly amounted to little references I didn't like or jokes I thought fell flat. But on the whole, I think you accomplished what you set out to do. The early combat scenes, especially, were chilling, as was the Goddess's vision of the future, and I very much enjoyed Lacunae's moral victory when she convinced the Goddess that Blackjack needed her memories to be what the Goddess wanted her to be. I'd say that if there was one part of the chapter I particularly think stood out on the negative side--and not just because of my personal problems with certain things--it was that you really pushed the Goddess/Eater parallel/connection[?] hard.

The Goddess herself was good, and her fall was well done. The means by which that was effected were about as respectful and restrained as I could see them being--which, incidentally, was something I felt characterized the whole chapter, apart from the above issue. The aftermath, likewise, was touching due to Lacunae's sacrifice and what little we got to see of Twilight herself, while minimally impacting the continuity of Fallout: Equestria.

The payoff to the LittlePip/Stable Dweller confusion wasn't as big as it feels like it should have been, but that's probably more a function of it just being built up for a long time, without much that could really be done with it in any case. I thought that the reaction to the Hellhound collateral damage fit Blackjack well, though I bet that there will be some among the party who will (or at least would) be a little more hard-hearted. In fairness, there was a real risk that making a warning to evacuate would undermine the success of the bombing--and, of course, Blackjack did find out by the end that LittlePip couldn't have warned the Enclave, not knowing that they would even be there. On that note, the Goddess's parting shot of "Flee, my little pegasi (but I'm keeping your faithless leader)!" was a nice mix of increased compassion and a measure of continuity with who she was before.

Overall, I liked it very much. I hope that it doesn't turn into a huge to-do like some recent chapters have. And may I take the end-note to mean that you do have work for the coming school year? If so, congratulations!--I'm very happy to hear that.

. . . And now to check out the comments since last night.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:31 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:@ OAC : Hah. Well, at least I hope you got my point, from an ethical standpoint at least.
Eeyup. "Oh, we know better than you do what's good for you, let us come in and do everything for you. Never mind that we're the beneficiaries from this arrangement; you weren't doing anything with the resources we're taking, anyway." The noble savage Boo (or, just as often, the "childlike and innocent" native), being civilized by the custodial Alicorn soul and made into a proper citizen of the Equestrian Empire - upon which Celestia's glorious sun never sets! I don't think the analogy is completely apropos, mind you, but it's definitely there, and it's definitely a bucket full of worms with nasty sharp teeth and bad intentions (hence the headsplosion on my part). 'Tis a complex issue, to be sure, pretty much any way you look at it, apart from how Boo might well see it. "I can keep a friend alive by giving them a space in my head to live in; how is this even a hard choice?"

Of course, you can't really ask her about stuff like this; Blackjack et al. don't have access to her tumblr, for one thing. And, again, even if you could, that brings up the question of whether or not she's truly capable of making such a decision for herself - you wouldn't let a child do something like this, and they at least can talk. At the same time, this brings us back the colonialism-style issue of knowing what's best for someone, never mind what they might think. And of course, sometime's that's just the case - you don't let a kid try to fly out a third-story window, no matter how convinced said kid is that the towel-cape they made will give them superpowers.

Yup. A bucket of worms wrapped in thorns, that's what this issue is. Makes me wanna see it happen, in a way. Sci-fi's supposed to tackle stuff like this, after all. Dunno if it'd be good for the story or characters or anything, but it'd be cool.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:43 pm

Well, I think it already got kind of tackled on when Blackjack unilaterally decided to erase part of Scotch Tape's memories, and the aftermaths of that decision.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:57 pm

(not related to the current chapter, but I kind of feel that this is relevant to Blackjack as a character)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:08 pm

Well, now that I've finished real life obligations and am awake enough to read, I have done so.


...And...wow...where to begin? I came this close to tearing up, but not quite. Seriously, though, that part where she removed Blackjack's memories and started sending her and the others after Lacunae? I haven't felt this soul-crushed since the ending of Background Pony. Might have actually gotten me to cry, too, had there not have been random references dispersed around...

The Goddess literally could not put herself in LittlePip’s horseshoes and anticipate what she might do. In a rush, I was learning more about the Stabl...
Oh dear sweet Luna. They were the same pony? They hadn’t been joking about that?! How... she... I... I couldn’t believe that a tiny, sweet, smart mare like her could be the strapping goddess of Wasteland death! I... I’d just not think about it.

How interesting she finds out the full truth now...

The boxcar had disappeared too.
I suddenly felt a sensation of déjà vu…
The car crashed down upon the remaining pair of greens with a squeal of broken metal.
This was something else that broke me out of the sads. I have never forgotten the boxcar incident from Littlepip's first alicorn kill. This just made me laugh in the middle of everything.

Can't believe Lacunae's gone, though. That's...well, it's just sad.

“Shouldn’t you be shooting?” a stallion growled beside me, and I jumped as I saw the shimmer of a zebra stealth cloak. Lancer lifted his rifle and silently blew out the eyes of a hellhound with a wicked beam rifle who had been taking aim at us.
This made me laugh, too. There's no way in hell he's staying around, though. I know I may have wished it at one point. I recall clearly doing so when I first read their encounter way back oh so long ago, but that time has definitely passed.

Well, now to see what happens next.

Oh, and Wave...as usual, you know what you must do.

------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:10 pm

Oh, and I fucking knew what song that was before I clicked the link.


------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:19 pm

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you as always.

Icy Shake wrote:Goddesses-damned"? Or is she having fun here?
This one's deliberate. :)

Icy Shake wrote:I guess it depends on general quotation capitalization practice, but I think the impact would be greater with "Blackjack" not capitalized, and the game isn't--necessarily, at least--capitalized.
Ah, good idea!

Icy Shake wrote:Also, do you like Black Book capitalized, or un-? There were a couple instances of capitalized early on, then until pretty recently it was uncapitalized.
I don't know, I'm afraid.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Downloaded Skill on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:20 pm

Hinds I'm rather curious about how much the Phoenix Soul Talisman and the truly prodigious amount of soul magic interact with Rampage's anatomy on a more technical level. We know it allows perfect reincarnation, but does it allow her brain to control her body even without a physical pathway? We don't really have concrete details yet which is why I want to speculate.

I notice a lot of her deaths would have her brain or heart compromised in some way. Are you saying that Rampage's body would accept commands since the soul magic allows a non-physical connection between her brain and body? Since Rampage's brain is alive for a few seconds after decapitation, supposedly, it would be possible for the body to make the kill if the "soul magic connection" theory is true.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:25 pm

I'll just just point something out : Rampage doesn't lose her memories, even after painting the walls with her own brain and regenerating a new, fresh one. This is possibly a clue. Of what, I don't know, but I'll just leave this here.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:57 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:I'll just just point something out : Rampage doesn't lose her memories, even after painting the walls with her own brain and regenerating a new, fresh one. This is possibly a clue. Of what, I don't know, but I'll just leave this here.
That's because it is magically regenerating her to her previous state. Contemporary healing, however accelerated, wouldn't allow for regrowing limbs... even ignoring conservation of mass and regrowing her from nothing as required.
The magical blueprint it's using for the spell includes everything about her, all the way down to her most recent memories.
Though now I wonder if she can even form new memories without an attached brain, making the brain entirely redundant next to the soul jar...

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:16 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:That said, I didn't like this chapter. It rubbed me the wrong way too many times, despite the quality writing for most of the rest of it.

Edit: Oh, and no commentary, this time.
Sorry that you didn't like it.  There was that one chapter of MN7 that I ended up mostly skimming, though, so I think I know the feeling.
Oh, though it did occur to me, regarding your complaint about the time estimate: perhaps it sounds like a computer because it is a computer?  With so much of Blackjack's mind stripped away, maybe her onboard systems are picking up slack.  Just an idea; I don't know if it's at all correct.
What you've said is not correct, word of somber says it's because all alicorns adopt the habit as a result of their connection with Twilight, much like the quirks they similarly adopt from Trixie, Mosaic and Gestalt.

In any case, I wouldn't say I skimmed most of it. Just the parts I didn't like.
The goddess arguing with herselves and Blackjack's reminiscing, at the end, mostly.
There were no other sections I felt like skipping over.

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How many spoiler tags is too many?

Post by Meleagridis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:15 pm

Just remembered that, a while ago, someone was asking for favourite quotes from the story. So before I forget, here is mine:

“You don’t finish nightmares, Goldie.  You wake up from them.”

Moving on.
Chapter Reactions:
The dragonhide thing. About time. Awesome outfit for a rescue.

Silence is gone. Movement now. Kick ass.

Forgive the major antagonist, who just violated your mind and basic equine rights? Who endangered your life, the lives of others, committed multiple cases of straight out murder and planned several worldwide genocides? “Hey.  No problem."
Never change, Blackjack.

Halp? ...Halp?
Someone seriously said halp?

Durrhuuur Indie/New Vegas reference

Lancer, huh? Oh well. Boo and Dealer will get their day eventually.

“Get away from me, you freak.  He cut your head off!”
Suddenly I like Lancer. It's good to have a straight man that isn't used to all... this.

Musical accompaniment! Hoo-rah!
Couple typos:
" already the gravity was pulling my aim back to small mare."
-BJ is a soviet stereotype now? "Dah. I vish to celebrate. Bring me vodka and small mare."

"Doubtful.no.  no"

"voiced their sentiment on the revese matter."
So, I've got half of reading reactions today (I hesitate to call it review) because I was far too engrossed in the first half of the story to leave very much at all. Usually when I read Somber’s work (or anything of a significant volume) I try to take a break once or twice between chunks of story because I am far from a marathon reader. A shower, do the laundry, something to break it all up. I tried to do so somewhere in the first two thirds of the story but found myself unable to stay away from the computer. This chapter pulled me in like a whirlpool. I was very fond.

I Like Lacunae: A Tangent:

Okay, setting aside Rover and Cerberus and all those other bit players that I probably only like for the fact that they are side characters, Lacunae is truly my favourite out of all of them. I identify with this character more than any of the other cast members, preferring the sidelines myself. Each and every decision Lac made was one that I understood completely and instinctively, not just objectively as with some of the louder voices. There is untold value in quiet, respectful observation. And it puts one in the perfect position to lend support, popping out from the shadows to deliver much-needed care where it is needed. And that happened a lot. Even without the issue of being treated as a tool, Lacunae still seemed to see herself as a means to improve others.

I’m satisfied with this. I’ve been kind of hoping for a ‘Lacunae episode’ and this feels like exactly that. Characters with pre-meditated sacrifices tend to steal the scene quite efficiently. Though I’m sad she’ll never have that chat with Rampage. Or, for that matter, anyone besides Blackjack. But honestly that’s one of the things that made the beginning of this installment so much more... I don’t know. Tragic? Wrenching? Blackjack has shared plenty of her heartache and forged similar bonds with every other member of the group, but I don’t remember Lacunae ever opening up to anyone but Blackjack. Even Rampage has had heart-to-hearts with P-21. Lacunae kept it all to herself until she confessed to Blackjack, however recklessly. So it is Lacunae, alone with the sole true friend she’s ever had, watching the same thing that tore her into little pieces start doing the same to Blackjack.

I really liked it when she went BJ on Unity. For the first time, someone else gets to be Security. You could argue that it only happened because everything that made up Blackjack was shoved into Lacunae, but I’d say that she (Lac) believed in suffering for the sake of others long before Unity filled her with more. It’s something they both have in common, Lacunae and BJ. And tearing everyone a new one after seeing their friend suffer is exactly what either of them would have done. Put in this situation, the virtues of both mares are put into the spotlight in such a way that they seem nearly identical, kind of a funny contrast next to the failed experiment that is claiming to be doing the exact same thing. And of course it all comes to a head in the end, when Lac even says that Blackjack would be doing the exact same thing in her ‘shoes. And vice versa.

By the time the big moment came around I didn’t care about Pip or Kkat canon or any of that. I don’t care what anyone says about the relevance of the Goddess subplot or Lac’s character or any of that. I like Lacunae. She felt real to me, and that made PH feel real. I wouldn't want it different.

WavemasterRyx wrote:I'll try to write my actual commentary later, once I've stopped crying, so it may be a few days, sorry, Somber. It was a very well done chapter though, I don't care what anyone else says.
For now though, I think I can sum up all my thoughts on the chapter with this.
Spoiler:

Goodbye, Lacunae...
Sleepy 

Responses to Harmony, Downloaded Skill, Swicked:

Somber wrote:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13757612280A72204100&page=1#8

I had a moment.  Wonder how long it'll last till it gets taken down
I... I need to share this. I need to show somebody.
This is valuable.

swicked wrote:
That whole seconds of combat thing, though... I flipping hate it. I don't know why it ticked me off so bad, but it just struck me as so dumb I had to comment.
It made the horror of the situation comical, to me, but in the worst way. I wanted that fear, to see this horrible blank-ness from inside unity, and that made the whole thing feel silly. A pointless statistic formed more of innane assumptions than cold-blooded, emotionless, pragmatic strategy.

...Great, now I can't stop being bugged by that. I wouldn't bat an eyelash if it wasn't for that 'point nine' bit. Seventeen seconds just sounds arrogant, seventeen point nine sounds weird.
Downloaded Skill wrote:
The Meeting

So if I'm reading this right Somber justifies the break from canon about The Goddess knowing the names by saying that the Goddess accidentally stole the emotional memory orb memories from Littlepip's mind? The emotional memories gave crucial context to the name which struck her silent?

So the memories tripped a kind of emotional influx which was magnified when the Goddess sorted through Lacunae's memories? It returned her core personalities to their true selves which made them realize their error and overpower the Goddess personality?

The way I read it, the memory orbs were on the surface of Pip's thoughts, right next to Telepathy Central, so she couldn't tune them out. And since Pip wasn't connected to Unity like Blackjack was, she couldn't just purge this new information to avoid moral contamination.


swicked wrote:
Question: Oubliette? Dictionary gives... “a dungeon made so that the only way in or out is through a trapdoor at the top”?
THAT is what Blackjack thinks her name would be?
Fable dungeon. Details don't need to be specific, so long as it's an inescapable prison. Nightmare Moon was in an oubliette. The standard, "1000 years when the stars align," deal. May not be an official definition, but this is how I hear it used.
Oh... Somebody beat me to this. Harmonyyyyy!


Harmony Ltd. wrote:Well, I've kind of always assumed there was some amount of "cartoon physic" in the setting (FoE at large) -I think it's that thing Mel' and Hinds were calling "narrative causality" in that other thread ?-, so I'd chalk that one up on that. Some times weird things just happen that don't really make sense => (in)famous example : Pinkie Sense.

Anyway => "tried for humor" : it was successful as far as I'm concerned. I sort of imagined the "oh fuck" face of the guy she slammed.

Yeah. I can't get upset at these gags if they seem to work well enough. That said, what I'm remembering is more of a condescending pat followed by a beatdown, which doesn't tickle my funnybone quite right and leaves me with too much room to question this mysterious cognizance. If, on the other end, it was Rampage's body blindly reaching out, finding the hellhound, tapping it once or twice as if to say, "Is this what I'm looking for? It is!" followed by the merciless beating, then I find that suitably hilarious, enough to not question the logistics. It's a gag, a well known one too, and its existence is justified within the framework of a cartoon (off of which FoE is based).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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