Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

by O. Hinds Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:17 am

Harmony wrote:Depending on how important an harbor Gibhalter was before / during the war, it would seem logical for it to have shipyards if only just to repair the ships using the harbor.

Even the shittiest fishing harbor has the kind of hardware it takes to repair to some extent the ships using it.

Oh, repair, yes, but not build. The ability to repair ships made it easier for the Gibhalter garrison to keep the strait closed and Gibhalter Equestrian (and could have helped gain control of the strait), but there's not real reason to put a shipyard in a prominent position on the front lines.

Harmony wrote:This strip and the blogpost below might be relevant, story-wise, to the fixation the Miliozi have with mechanized warfare.

The weapon system in question => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Amphibious_Vehicle

Heh, neat. The Miliozi would likely say that the uncomfortable ride was good for toughening soldiers up, building character, etc.

I wouldn't really say that the Miliozi have a fixation with mechanized warfare, though; it's that they've a fixation with being the most powerful military (in part due to self-flanderization through successive generations of foal soldiering) and consider mechanized warfare a good means to that end.

by Harmony Ltd. Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:29 pm

RE Velvet and Calamity :

the possibility of them having kids suddenly came to my mind.

It's probably something that's best left to the reader's / game master's / player's imagination, but I thought I needed to mention it.

Considering the "present day" as far as I'm concerned is 30 years after the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows...

Possibility of a twenty-something "Arthur Maxson" ?

by O. Hinds Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:07 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:RE Velvet and Calamity :

the possibility of them having kids suddenly came to my mind.

It's probably something that's best left to the reader's / game master's / player's imagination, but I thought I needed to mention it.

Considering the "present day" as far as I'm concerned is 30 years after the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows...

Possibility of a twenty-something "Arthur Maxson" ?

Hm... The thing is, Velvet doesn't seem likely to me to promote hereditary power, and Calamity isn't (as far as we know) himself the head of an organization. Their children will probably have a good amount of respect, but I'm not sure about any power, expected or otherwise, beyond that.

by Harmony Ltd. Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:11 pm

Yes, most probably.

On the other hand, I was more thinking along the line of a "walking into the shadows of your parents / ancestors" kind of deal.

You know, how people would think that Velvet and Calamity's kid(s) would naturally be destined to greatness, the (often unvoiced) expectations set on their shoulders by others, and the general influence this might have on their upbringing.

by O. Hinds Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:29 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Yes, most probably.

On the other hand, I was more thinking along the line of a "walking into the shadows of your parents / ancestors" kind of deal.

You know, how people would think that Velvet and Calamity's kid(s) would naturally be destined to greatness, the (often unvoiced) expectations set on their shoulders by others, and the general influence this might have on their upbringing.

Ah, yes, now that makes sense.

by Meleagridis Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:32 pm

I feel like this might have been relevant at some point in the past.

Spoiler:

by Harmony Ltd. Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:37 pm

Hey. The dazzle camo pattern. Made to disrupt enemy attempts at estimating ships' general form and direction ("Is that the front or the back ?").

It was used before the invention of radar when people primarily relied on visual identifications to get that kind of informations.

I don't know how relevant it would be to the setting, but I have to admit it would be funny to have Alliance (or even the good old Roaman) ships use that "zebra" camouflage. :D

by O. Hinds Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:07 pm

by Meleagridis Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:52 pm

I need to outsource some brainpower, and I can't think of a better place to do it.

If one accepts the multiple personality view of the Goddess, is there any technology or magic that would allow a limited degree of privacy between minds? Something that, for a few moments, allows any one of them to act independently of the other three minds?

by Kippershy Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:31 pm

I am totally nicking that camouflage scheme for use in my fic now... thanks!

by Harmony Ltd. Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:53 pm

Meleagridis wrote:I need to outsource some brainpower, and I can't think of a better place to do it.

If one accepts the multiple personality view of the Goddess, is there any technology or magic that would allow a limited degree of privacy between minds? Something that, for a few moments, allows any one of them to act independently of the other three minds?

That would mostly depend on how we imagine Unity works, in that how exactly the different spirits / mind are linked to each other ; that is if we go with the idea that they are still somewhat separate entity and haven't all been swallowed whole by the Godess, herself acting as the Glue linking all these minds together (notice how Unity seem to have kind of "vanished" once the Goddess died in the original FoE).

If the link is telepathic in nature, then an anti-magic field might do the trick (demonstrated in PH ch. 56 : anti-magic field disrupt the link to the Goddess) ; though such a solution would be... kind of like the "nuclear option" as far as allowing privacy goes.

If however Trixie, Twilight and the Twins are, as I tend to believe, weakly bonded at the Soul level (which would be why they appear as a mass of four different heads dominated by Trixie, metaphorically joined at the hips), I do not know how we could find a possible way to block the thoughts transfer without having to delve into the metaphysics of the Godess' nature and Soul Magic - the last point having been discussed at length times and times again without finding a real consensus (as it should be, I think...).

by O. Hinds Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:29 pm

Meleagridis wrote:I need to outsource some brainpower, and I can't think of a better place to do it.

If one accepts the multiple personality view of the Goddess, is there any technology or magic that would allow a limited degree of privacy between minds? Something that, for a few moments, allows any one of them to act independently of the other three minds?

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
Meleagridis wrote:I need to outsource some brainpower, and I can't think of a better place to do it.

If one accepts the multiple personality view of the Goddess, is there any technology or magic that would allow a limited degree of privacy between minds? Something that, for a few moments, allows any one of them to act independently of the other three minds?
That would mostly depend on how we imagine Unity works, in that how exactly the different spirits / mind are linked to each other ; that is if we go with the idea that they are still somewhat separate entity and haven't all been swallowed whole by the Godess, herself acting as the Glue linking all these minds together (notice how Unity seem to have kind of "vanished" once the Goddess died in the original FoE).

If the link is telepathic in nature, then an anti-magic field might do the trick (demonstrated in PH ch. 56 : anti-magic field disrupt the link to the Goddess) ; though such a solution would be... kind of like the "nuclear option" as far as allowing privacy goes.

If however Trixie, Twilight and the Twins are, as I tend to believe, weakly bonded at the Soul level (which would be why they appear as a mass of four different heads dominated by Trixie, metaphorically joined at the hips), I do not know how we could find a possible way to block the thoughts transfer without having to delve into the metaphysics of the Godess' nature and Soul Magic - the last point having been discussed at length times and times again without finding a real consensus (as it should be, I think...).

Yeah, we know for a fact that it's possible to isolate physically selected sections of Unity, but that won't work on the Goddess herself. As for isolating sections selected in the mindscape... Hm... Yes, I think that that would be dooable, if very difficult; we've already seen mind and soul magic. Having the isolated section able to control the rest, though, I doubt; even if one could establish a backflow preventer to keep the rest of the Goddess from relinking through the channel, the isolated section would be fighting an uphill battle to wrest control from the rest. Now, I suppose that it would be possible to change the frequency of the telepathy, as it were, of a group of alicorns, but I'd expect that to be extremely difficult (and it's still no good for gaining control of the others).

by Harmony Ltd. Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:08 pm

I'd say Renegade Alicorns would have to form a psychic choir to wrestle back control of their own mind from the Goddess. But I think it would still be freaking hard for them to confront the Goddess on her own home field (the Unity).

I mean... for starter the Alicorns would need their initial rebellious thoughts to not be squashed by the Goddess, then they would need to quickly learn to camouflage them ; and at the first slip the Goddess would probably rip the rebellious part of their personality out of their mind and shove it somewhere else.

-IF- there existed an Alicorn able to resist the Goddess, it would most probably be a one-in-a-million occurrence, and even then...

by Meleagridis Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:01 am

Hrblftbldm...

What if... what if there was something that could block some of Unity, prevent communication in a manner similar to Cloud or Enervation, but an interference that acted less as a damn and more as a sieve, allowing a limited...

Hm. Now I think I'm just reaching. I can't think of a way to break the big movers of Unity into component minds without fundamentally messing up Unity.

by Harmony Ltd. Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:44 pm

Random thought :

Is there already a place existing somewhere in the established FoE or PH canon that echoes Golgotha from Fallout 2 ?

by O. Hinds Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:30 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Random thought :

Is there already a place existing somewhere in the established FoE or PH canon that echoes Golgotha from Fallout 2 ?

Hm, no, I don't think so.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:42 am

Cool. This could always be cool idea to use in a story, depending on the circumstances.

by Harmony Ltd. Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:48 pm

Possible inspiration for the NCR military ?

[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions - Page 28 460491034122402lo122402

[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions - Page 28 Img499ec30b414e6

(Yugoslav Armed Forces, that's all I know about the picture)

The masks just reminded me that tear gas (and other "non-lethal" combat gases) could be useful in operations against slaver camps.

by O. Hinds Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:07 pm

Heh, makes sense. Though I can't help but think that it's rather funny using Yugoslav armed forces as an example for the NCR, given that the NCR's anthem is based closely on the USSR anthem and the anthem of the SFR Yugoslavia supplied the tune for the Pax Roamana's.

by O. Hinds Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:18 pm

By the way, I thought of a name for this universe we've been working on: the 3HMverse, 3HM standing for "Headcanon of Harmony, Hinds, and Meleagridis", since we seem to be by far the major contributors at the moment. What do you think?

by O. Hinds Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:30 pm

Matters vexillogical happened to come up in conversation, and I showed Somber the Harmony Banner. He didn't care for it too much, I'm afraid. (Note: It appears that some of the formatting didn't make it into the logs. Sorry about that.)

Log:

He also thought that the anthem I wrote drew too much from FoE and didn't represent the NCR enough. An interesting view, I think:

Log:

Of course, the USSR anthem was... well, the USSR anthem, so we can still use this for the NCR without unduly straining believability, I think.

by Harmony Ltd. Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:47 am

In all honesty, I have to join the opinion that the "Harmony Flag" is badly designed. I always trouble choosing the "right" colors. :P

I'll see what I can come up with from the description, but I fear the silhouette idea is going to be hard to put into practice. Wouldn't there be an easier symbolism to represent them ? Or at least to represent the racial inclusiveness of the NCR ?

As for how you decide to name our little thought experiments... Heh, do as you wish. :D

by O. Hinds Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:10 am

Harmony wrote:In all honesty, I have to join the opinion that the "Harmony Flag" is badly designed. I always trouble choosing the "right" colors. :P

I'll see what I can come up with from the description, but I fear the silhouette idea is going to be hard to put into practice. Wouldn't there be an easier symbolism to represent them ? Or at least to represent the racial inclusiveness of the NCR ?

Hm, I think that we ought to keep working on the current design on the Harmony Banner, actually. I think that Somber's proposed design (and he freely admitted that he was basically just throwing stuff out there to see what stuck, as it said in the log) is likely too complex. If we do discard the HB, I think that we ought at least stick with simple colors and geometric shapes.

I've not specific ideas at the moment for how to improve the HB, though, beyond maybe toning down the neon in the colors or whatever.

Harmony wrote:As for how you decide to name our little thought experiments... Heh, do as you wish. :D

Thanks! Now we/I just need Meleagridis to sign on, since their name is being used.

by Harmony Ltd. Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:20 am

See this page :

https://cloudsville.rpg-board.net/t976p510-fallout-equestria-setting-discussions

by Meleagridis Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:17 pm

O. Hinds wrote:By the way, I thought of a name for this universe we've been working on: the 3HMverse, 3HM standing for "Headcanon of Harmony, Hinds, and Meleagridis", since we seem to be by far the major contributors at the moment. What do you think?

Personally, I don't think it should be names. Makes it so exclusive. It should be something about the 'verse being created!
...Also, there's only one H!

swicked wrote:
I mean, maybe the sun could still have some significance, since the light bringer brought it back, but the moon's mostly just... there. It doesn't matter to anyone that isn't involved with, or pursuing the mystery of, Project Horizons.

Funny that everybody forgets about the night again, only this time there's no night goddess to get pissed off.

I've always had it in my head that the moon was important to dogs. The valley dogs in Maripony (or what's left) and the sand dogs over in the Hoof. I been toying with a thought or two. What I have is that the moon is a heavenly messenger. When the overzealous sun falls below the horizon, the sky is finally quiet enough for the moon to hear your prayers. When you have no gems of your own on which to wish, look to the sky and pray to the moon, howl long, howl low, howl loud. The moon listens to every prayer and, in time, delivers them. The moon's gaze is wide, and when it falls upon your savior he will deliver your wish to them. If there is no savior for you, the generous moon will pluck one of his own gems from the night sky, and make your prayer upon it.

by Harmony Ltd. Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:22 pm

Meleagridis wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:By the way, I thought of a name for this universe we've been working on: the 3HMverse, 3HM standing for "Headcanon of Harmony, Hinds, and Meleagridis", since we seem to be by far the major contributors at the moment. What do you think?
Personally, I don't think it should be names. Makes it so exclusive. It should be something about the 'verse being created!
...Also, there's only one H!

Personally I'll just call it "The Thing / The Monster" Applebloom

(re-read Hinds' post, there is three H)

Meleagridis wrote:
swicked wrote:I mean, maybe the sun could still have some significance, since the light bringer brought it back, but the moon's mostly just... there. It doesn't matter to anyone that isn't involved with, or pursuing the mystery of, Project Horizons.

Funny that everybody forgets about the night again, only this time there's no night goddess to get pissed off.

I've always had it in my head that the moon was important to dogs. The valley dogs in Maripony (or what's left) and the sand dogs over in the Hoof. I been toying with a thought or two. What I have is that the moon is a heavenly messenger. When the overzealous sun falls below the horizon, the sky is finally quiet enough for the moon to hear your prayers. When you have no gems of your own on which to wish, look to the sky and pray to the moon, howl long, howl low, howl loud. The moon listens to every prayer and, in time, delivers them. The moon's gaze is wide, and when it falls upon your savior he will deliver your wish to them. If there is no savior for you, the generous moon will pluck one of his own gems from the night sky, and make your prayer upon it.

I like this idea, yes.

by Harmony Ltd. Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:47 pm

Well, if I remember right, in that 'verse the equestrian peninsula was held long ago by a Dog empire, long before star-Zebra!Hoofington got destroyed by the Eater and the peninsula got colonized by the ponies.

The belief might date from back then and have been passed down the millenia.

As for Luna... Heh, she was just the pony in charge of moving the moon around. She wasn't literally THE moon, which is what they'd revere, if I get Mel's idea right.

by Meleagridis Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:56 pm

The basis would be pre-war. The idea assumes that A) diamond dogs may be excellent diggers, but only live partially underground if at all when they can help it and B) diamond dogs don't give no shit 'bout yo pony politics and this sun-goddess bull. No evidence for either is presented in either the show or FoE.

When I thought it up, I wasn't really thinking about how the sun and moon are supposedly under pony command. What's that like for other races overseas? Because "we control the sky" is a pretty strong argument against any other culture's folklore about the sky... But there was a time in pony history without Luna and Celestia moving the celestial bodies, so there's time for the culture to develop.

Mostly the concept is there to set a scene. Something where the clouds are peeled back for the first time, the first moonrise of post-apocalyptia comes up, and there's a howling that could be heard halfway through the continent.

by O. Hinds Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:28 pm

Swicked wrote:I always imagined the symbol for any new equestrian government would be one depicting either a mirror of the NCR's but with an ursa minor on it, or one of a balefire phoenix, depicting an equestria that, while changed, has risen again, and will continue to do so.
Maybe overshadowing both the sun and the moon, or maybe just leaving both out of the flag entirely. The sun and the moon have dropped almost entirely out of cultural significance for everyone that isn't a pegasus, Celestia and Luna's names mostly used for curses and the like.
I mean, maybe the sun could still have some significance, since the light bringer brought it back, but the moon's mostly just... there. It doesn't matter to anyone that isn't involved with, or pursuing the mystery of, Project Horizons.
The balefire phoenix was changed by the war, but it adapted to its new world to be no less strong. It also literally rises from the ashes of the creature that comes before it. I could have sworn that unicorn that isn't Littlepip in the original FoE even makes a comment at some point about how the balefire phoenix represents equestria or something.

Any six tribes symbolism could come from tongues of flame surrounding the creature, or maybe beams of light coming out from it or coming down from above it, since light has been brought to the wasteland again.

Hm, interesting idea.

Meleagridis wrote:Personally, I don't think it should be names. Makes it so exclusive. It should be something about the 'verse being created!
...Also, there's only one H!

Righto. It was just the best that I could think of… and the only one that I could think of, actually. :)
Oh, that's what the 3 is for.

Meleagridis wrote:I've always had it in my head that the moon was important to dogs. The valley dogs in Maripony (or what's left) and the sand dogs over in the Hoof. I been toying with a thought or two. What I have is that the moon is a heavenly messenger. When the overzealous sun falls below the horizon, the sky is finally quiet enough for the moon to hear your prayers. When you have no gems of your own on which to wish, look to the sky and pray to the moon, howl long, howl low, howl loud. The moon listens to every prayer and, in time, delivers them. The moon's gaze is wide, and when it falls upon your savior he will deliver your wish to them. If there is no savior for you, the generous moon will pluck one of his own gems from the night sky, and make your prayer upon it.

Hm, interesting.

By the way, even though the NCR is focusing on biofuel-steam, would they still be interested enough in petroleum for CP to have a practical market? If not, I'm not sure that Hell would be able to avoid being drawn into the Alliance. Unless the NCR decides to increase its petroleum use definitely not at all specifically to prevent that… Hm. Thoughts?

Swicked wrote:So, wait, when would that happen? With the cloud cover, when would they see the moon well-enough to form a religion around it?
Besides, their subterranean. They don't like seeing the sky...

Plus, they were subjugated worst under Luna, right? They would know it was a horned and winged pony thing.
I don't really understand the basis of this idea, particularly calling the sun "overzealous".

In the absence of alicorns I can imagine them making a religion around the moon and its many gems throughout the sky, but the fact that they are subterranean and Luna existed ruins the idea for me.

It could be the remnants of an ancient pre-alicorn belief. And, sure, they were still subterranean, but isn't a prayer to the moon even more special if you have to work a bit for it (ie go to the surface)? Maybe it could be connected to geothurgy, too… the moon as a stone powerful enough to move through the sky?

Harmony wrote:Well, if I remember right, in that 'verse the equestrian peninsula was held long ago by a Dog empire, long before star-Zebra!Hoofington got destroyed by the Eater and the peninsula got colonized by the ponies.

The belief might date from back then and have been passed down the millenia.

Ah, I see that I've been beaten to the idea. :)
Aye, the peninsula, or at the least the majority of its subsurface, was ruled by a great diamond dog civilization prior to the arrival of the zebras who would grow into the Northern culture. Things escalated between the dogs and zebras until, around fifty years after the formation of the Pax Roamana (the end of the war being in 1815PR) and fifty years before the destruction of the old Northern capital, the zebras, armed with star magic, finally broke the Empire (this was, in fact, one of the big contributing factors to the fall of old Northern civilization; the success of the Starkatteri methods against the Empire, which had been a thorn in the Northerners' sides for ages, brought them much prominence and popularity). Then the meteor impact devastates the remaining subsurface settlements, ponies arrive a century later, and it's downhill from there for the dogs. The desire for a return to a glorious civilization is, I think, another reason why Hell would be appealing.

by Meleagridis Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:38 pm

swicked wrote:

Now I'm all conflicted. The fable-style everyone makes everything fits FiM quite nicely, as demonstrated by two sisters raising the moon and sun every day. This sort of world would make a phenomenally interesting Fallout universe... if that opportunity had not already come and gone. Kkat's Fallout: Equestria basically features the two Princesses as the only Fable elements, bringing up the stars as maybe yeah maybe nah add-ons. Is there really any other trace of that wonderful fantasy/fable logic other than the cloud cover?

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