[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Good news! Payments for the second printing of FoE are finally being accepted, so I've paid for Somber's copy and sent the remainder (forty-five USD and some cents) of the money you donated to Somber.

Moodyman90 wrote:But I will say that I don't want Somber to finish Project Horizons out of an obligation to us readers. I want him to finish it because he wants to.

Want is fickle. Nothing wrong with pressure, so long as it doesn't become unhealthy. Sometimes things like expectation are all that's left to pull on a man.



Whenever readership opens up on PH, it always seems that a hefty percentage of them suffer or have suffered from some sort of disorder, often depression. It would make sense, considering the consequences and understanding of it are important parts of the story from (relatively) early on. Am I reading too much into a vocal minority?

If it's not to blunt a question, how many people here consider themselves to be in perfectly adequate mental health?

Somber wrote:Sigh. So 55 is sitting at 20p. It's horrible. Lots of talking and it's taking forever. And did I mention horrible? As always, it just goes on and on and on... There's just stuff to cover and I can't do 'she goes to x and does y'. No, I have to show it... sigh...
So...yeah... sorry...

Things are never as bad as they seem, especially not when you have the number of people who care about you that you have. Rock on, Somber.

O. Hinds wrote:Good news! Payments for the second printing of FoE are finally being accepted, so I've paid for Somber's copy and sent the remainder (forty-five USD and some cents) of the money you donated to Somber.

Awesome.

Meleagridis wrote:If it's not to blunt a question, how many people here consider themselves to be in perfectly adequate mental health?

Well, since you've phrased it that way, I do. Doesn't look quite like most other peoples', but it seems to be chugging along nicely.
Though I'm not sure about "perfectly"; that's hard to evaluate.

I'm in graduate school. By definition something must be wrong with me.

I know I'm not quite right in the head, but at this point in time it isn't anything that's keeping me from living life.

Most people who've met me in person are surprised if I ever mention feeling like something is wrong with me, mainly because for most of them I give off this presence of being calm, collect, happy, and friendly. And it's not like I'm faking any of it, just that sometimes I feel like those are just the effects of something being off.

Course that could just be the mindset of "Everybody else seems to have something off about them, why would I be different."

With all the shit going on in town this week and how surreal and depressing everything is, not to mention some personal issues as a result, knowing that Somber's still pressing away is some good news to hear that I've needed. Keep it up, buddy.

Caoimhe wrote:With all the shit going on in town this week and how surreal and depressing everything is, not to mention some personal issues as a result, knowing that Somber's still pressing away is some good news to hear that I've needed. Keep it up, buddy.

Part of me really wishes I was back home, so I could do something, but another part is very glad I'm in an isolated bubble in WI instead. Hang in there, Cao, you and the rest of MA.

@Stable, healthy mental condition?
Close enough, me. I wasn't before, but yeah, I'm currently pretty stable. Sure, I've got odd mental quirks (like anyone), and my self-confidence ain't precisely the highest, but I'm okay right now. Good, even.

Somber wrote:Sigh. So 55 is sitting at 20p. It's horrible. Lots of talking and it's taking forever. And did I mention horrible? As always, it just goes on and on and on... There's just stuff to cover and I can't do 'she goes to x and does y'. No, I have to show it... sigh...

We'll be the judge of that.

Somber wrote:Anyway, about my grumpybuttness... I have chronic depression. I have since I was a little kid. I've wanted to check out since high school and unfortunately failed the times I tried it. Trust me. There's nothing more pathetic or humiliating than failing to kill yourself. You could just die... Mostly I'm too much of a coward, and I recognize that doing so would really suck for a great number of people who really care about me. So I have real problems with feeling good. I'm a bit of a video games addict, have a horrible diet, and have resigned to a life alone. I'm a failed teacher with 50k in student loans building up debt. On the other hand, I've been told that I'm a nice person, and I've never been to jail, gotten drunk, or smoked or done drugs. So there's that.

I dont know you. I cant tell you how to live your life. I cant even tell you to listen to me. But I can tell you that there is always something better for you out there. If you refuse to think otherwise, then maybe you just arent looking hard enough. Yeah, you could pull the plug and just check out, I've got a lot of choice words for people who decide to do that, but its really your decision in the end, nobody can stop you. But just because your current situation is dire, doesnt mean that there isnt somewhere, or something out there that will truly bring you happiness and something better, all it takes is the effort to find it.

Too often do these words fall on deaf ears, but just think about it, at least.

Somber wrote:When it comes to my writing though, I refuse to believe it's good. If I finish the whole story well, then I might accept okay. But ultimately the story is what it is. If I rewrote it, I'd do things a lot differently. There'd be a lot less sub plot going on. A lot less travel and immersion. And it'd probably be half as long. But I can't do that. I can only finish the damned thing as best as I can. I know it's crap, but other folks tell me otherwise, so I try to defer to their judgement. It's kept me from checking out more than once. 'But if I do, it'll really piss off my readers if I don't finish' has saved my life at least three times.

I think you should finish the story first. That would be the best thing to do right now instead of worrying about the past.

But after you finish it, going back and really tightening things up wouldn't hurt. I know itd be a horribly long process, but it would be well worth the effort to bring it up to the best story it can possibly be. You keep saying you dont think its good. Well do something about it, if you want the best you can get, giving it a once over and smoothing out the edges is something that would really help.

If you know you made a mistake, dont just push it aside and hope to forget about it, learn from it, and if you can, do everything in your power to fix it how you see fit.


You really dont HAVE to do anything though, so do whatever.

Meleagridis wrote:If it's not to blunt a question, how many people here consider themselves to be in perfectly adequate mental health?

I wouldnt use the phrase "perfectly adequate". Everybody is going to have a mild case of some sort of disorder if you go by DSM-VI.

But aside from anything serious or chronic, I could say I fit into an adequate mental health category. It probably goes without saying, but the only thing that someone could really find as a problem with me is that I generally dont get along with most people I talk to.

O. Hinds wrote:

Meleagridis wrote:If it's not to blunt a question, how many people here consider themselves to be in perfectly adequate mental health?

Well, since you've phrased it that way, I do. Doesn't look quite like most other peoples', but it seems to be chugging along nicely.
Though I'm not sure about "perfectly"; that's hard to evaluate.

Adequate? Sure, absolutely.

Normal?

I'm with Carto on this. Adequate mental health still leaves me far from 'normal'.

I don't talk to people, so I haven't any idea on what people think of my sanity as a whole.

I'm predisposed to believe that I've got a personality disorder, or it is just severe social/performance anxiety. Yes, though I know it isn't true that everyone is constantly judging me, it still feels that way and it cripples my ability to present stuff, share my tastes, or work with others in school.

Otherwise, aside from my tendency to overthink and become sad and paranoid, I'm pretty much fine, I suppose.

Whether there is something wrong with liking a few colossal grimdark stories about ponies and death is up to everyone else.

Somber wrote:Sigh. So 55 is sitting at 20p. It's horrible. Lots of talking and it's taking forever. And did I mention horrible? As always, it just goes on and on and on... There's just stuff to cover and I can't do 'she goes to x and does y'. No, I have to show it... sigh...

Exposition is a necessary part of storytelling of any length. You have tendency to be ridiculously self-critical. This is the inverse of the Kruger-Dunning effect. You think lots of other people can write better you. You don't realize that no, your skill is exceptional. I'm not going to lie and say you're the next Cormac McCarthy, but you have a wonderful knack for creating likable characters who you want to follow anywhere. That takes extraordinary skill. Also, if you feel you've pickpocketed stuff from anime, everyone does stuff like that when they write.

Somber wrote:Anyway, about my grumpybuttness... I have chronic depression. I have since I was a little kid. I've wanted to check out since high school and unfortunately failed the times I tried it. Trust me. There's nothing more pathetic or humiliating than failing to kill yourself. You could just die... Mostly I'm too much of a coward, and I recognize that doing so would really suck for a great number of people who really care about me. So I have real problems with feeling good. I'm a bit of a video games addict, have a horrible diet, and have resigned to a life alone. I'm a failed teacher with 50k in student loans building up debt. On the other hand, I've been told that I'm a nice person, and I've never been to jail, gotten drunk, or smoked or done drugs. So there's that.

Real talk: I've had this disease. Still have it. I planned a suicide once. I did not go through with it, even though I wrote a note. I just psycho-analized how I had set it up for my roommate to find me quickly and that what I secretly wanted was help. You clearly need some support right now. I don't know where you can reach out to but you're right that a great number of people care about you. Don't forget that the things you've written have lifted the spirits of your many readers and helped some of them through their own hard times. There's nothing "unfortunate" about the fact that you are alive.

Also teaching is grueling as fuck and a majority of teachers burn out within 3 years. If you don't have an irl emotional support system the pressure just gets magnified like hell. And student loan officers are made for dodging.

Somber wrote:When it comes to my writing though, I refuse to believe it's good. If I finish the whole story well, then I might accept okay. But ultimately the story is what it is. If I rewrote it, I'd do things a lot differently. There'd be a lot less sub plot going on. A lot less travel and immersion. And it'd probably be half as long. But I can't do that. I can only finish the damned thing as best as I can. I know it's crap, but other folks tell me otherwise, so I try to defer to their judgement. It's kept me from checking out more than once. 'But if I do, it'll really piss off my readers if I don't finish' has saved my life at least three times.

Dude, how many people have told you your work is excellent? Would we be reading this if it weren't? If you can't accept that, please accept that you are beloved at least. I also see a common thread in Project Horizons that I'm seeing in your self-hatred. At its core, to me at least, PH is about group of ponies looking to hold on to their humanity (ponan...ity?) under the most dire of circumstances. One's humanity isn't about what they are physically. They can be a cyborg, they can be a metal box with wheels and arms. It's not about what atrocities they've been subjected too, as long as they can still battle forth in this world. It's not about the sins they may have committed as long as they go forth to rectify them. It's about who they are, what they learn, what they become, and what they are prepared to give of themselves. I see in your posts the same sort of creature, trying to hold on to his humanity. At any time, you could have stopped doing that and just turned into a bastard douchebag shitheel, or worse. I've certainly met enough people like that in my time. So whether you realize it or not you should be commended for that.

Somber wrote:Unfortunately, finding out I'm losing my job really shook me. Snipe leaving the editorial team really shook my self confidence too. I was also recently exposed to 4chan criticism which isn't good for me either and a few IRC chats that beat up my self confidence a bunch. Lots of folks telling me I should do X or I should do Y. They don't understand that often I can't do X or I have to do Y, and I can't tell people because of huge spoilers.

So...yeah... sorry...

First off, fuck 4chan. Even the people who post on 4chan will readily admit the place is generally a den of idiocy. An anonymous image board is the last place one should take critical advice from.

Right now, you clearly need someone to be there for you. I'm the wrong gender, and I'm on the internet, so I can't be that person. But will you take an internet hug?

I-Is it safe to come out?

Agree:

Eeeyup!:

So much yes!:

Brohoof!:

Brohoof so hard I hurt meself...:

Yay!:

Inside infoz? HAX!:

For me, stuff like this is the heart of the best FoE fics, like PH. What I
call the "internal narrative" (I don't know if there's some actual name
for it, that's just what I call it). The emotional struggle inside the
characters mind between what they want/should be, and the actual world
and others around them.

I'm always disappointed when I see a new
comic adaptation of FoE and it's missing most of the non verbal
writings. The artists intent is to convey them using only visual cues,
but, imo, even the best are unable to completely. The heart of the story
is missing. From what I understand, the big radio play production of
FoE is going the same route, leaving out most of the internal narrative
to try to be conveyed by the actor`s voices. This puts the focus more on
what`s happening around them (and yes, that is also important), and
less on Pip`s internal struggles. To me, the best use of visuals/voices
are to accent the internal narrative, adding to it, rather than
replacing it.

Like this excellent dramatic reading of part of PH:ch43 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HIE5xM0bxQ

I like Blackjack`s whining...most of the time.

Are you Dog?:

For far too many introspection is a dirty word. Asking questions tends to affect confidence and loyalty, which is why so many discourage it.

Don`t think about it, Blackjack...

Overthepacific wrote:Did this thread really fall off of the latest topics for two whole days? Weird.

Well, to attempt a revive, it might have been talked about before, but I'm curious.

What was every ones favorite part of the story?

I tend to judge things based on an aggregate of things I like vs. things I don`t, and for me, PH is way, way, waaaaaaaay in the plus column.

How can I pick just one?

Some of my favourites:

Just a few off the top of my head, there are many others.

Gotta say, you've done a remarkable job with so much of your writing Somber. At times it really affects me on a deep level.

@Boing
Haven't seen you a while.
Now while you're at it, would you kindly please use this image instead of your current one. A minor point, I'm sure, but it's been bugging me.



Edit: Thank you.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:@Boing
Haven't seen you a while.

I tend to be a deliberate and thorough reader, and with all the comment crazyness here lately it took me forever to get through it all. And when I did finally read them all I'd feel annoyed/pissed/confused/tired all at once. Mostly tired. Couldn't seem to find the energy to compose anything intelligent, and didn't want to say anything rash, so I didn't post at all.

OneMoreDaySK wrote:Now while you're at it, would you kindly please use this image instead of your current one. A minor point, I'm sure, but it's been bugging me.

Well somepony has something against lo-res screen-cap chop-jobbies!

Seriously though, thank you. Couldn't find the pic I wanted with a GIS, so with my nearly non-existant image skilz did it myself.

You didn't like the 'my eyes are out of focus' feeling you got when you saw it?

FoolNeim wrote:This is the inverse of the Kruger-Dunning effect. You think lots of other people can write better you. You don't realize that no, your skill is exceptional.

Actually that is the Dunning-Kruger effect, not its inverse. The DK effect is, in short, "Everybody assumes they are about average."

People who are unskilled in an area tend to overestimate their talent and understanding because they don't realize how much they don't know and lack the experience to accurately judge their work against others'.

At the same time, highly competent people tend to feel that "anybody could do this" because they have internalized so much of the skill that the tasks seem straightforward and easy to them, and thus underestimate their actual worth.

Unrelated to any current discussion, but...


We've had a -little- discussion about Fallout Equestria as a setting in the Chat Thread, and for one reason or another, I decided to dump everything in its own thread for ease of reading.

You can read it here => https://cloudsville.rpg-board.net/t976-fallout-equestria-setting-discussions

FeatherDust wrote:

FoolNeim wrote:This is the inverse of the Kruger-Dunning effect. You think lots of other people can write better you. You don't realize that no, your skill is exceptional.

Actually that is the Dunning-Kruger effect, not its inverse. The DK effect is, in short, "Everybody assumes they are about average."

People who are unskilled in an area tend to overestimate their talent and understanding because they don't realize how much they don't know and lack the experience to accurately judge their work against others'.

At the same time, highly competent people tend to feel that "anybody could do this" because they have internalized so much of the skill that the tasks seem straightforward and easy to them, and thus underestimate their actual worth.

Okay, the inverse of the popular adaptation of the term, which has to do with not-very-smart people thinking that they're brilliant.

Somber is a truly excellent writer who thinks he's writing tripe. Plus he is horribly depressed in general. I don't know the roots of his suffering but it's clear Somber needs a hand. How to remotely reach out to the guy I wouldn't know, but I hope he knows that a lot of people care about him.

Got to 24p. Then took a pill. Ugh... soo boring and so terrible. >.< Might have to shift around best night ever... I am so off the timeline tho...

Was going to do some work on my next Boo update, but I thought I'd take a few minutes and make this from the template I have saved.

Spoiler:

Somber wrote:Got to 24p. Then took a pill. Ugh... soo boring and so terrible. >.< Might have to shift around best night ever... I am so off the timeline tho...

*hugs you gently* Just try the best you can, sir. I have every confidence it'll turn out just fine.

Somber wrote:Got to 24p. Then took a pill. Ugh... soo boring and so terrible. >.< Might have to shift around best night ever... I am so off the timeline tho...

Obviously he's talking about the pill. It's a boring pill that tastes terrible. 'Best night ever' is referring to his pony watching schedule, which is totally out of whack because time travel.

Mysteries explained!

If "Best Night Ever" is an event which already happened in the story, wouldn't it be Chapter 34 (aka "BlackJack and Littlepip's Wild Night") ?

FeatherDust wrote:At the same time, highly competent people tend to feel that "anybody could do this" because they have internalized so much of the skill that the tasks seem straightforward and easy to them, and thus underestimate their actual worth.

It's funny, I've noticed that I tend to do that when I program at work. I have to keep reminding myself that, while what I actually did was a one-line code fix, most people wouldn't know where to even begin looking. Even the Cobol guys, who have been programming for decades but are just now starting to train up on C#.
Somewhere along the line, I got skilled without really realizing it.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:If "Best Night Ever" is an event which already happened in the story, wouldn't it be Chapter 34 (aka "BlackJack and Littlepip's Wild Night") ?

I would tend to assume "the best night ever" is the one that starts with a bright flash in the southwestern sky.

Do you know what to do when you see the flash?

Harmony Ltd. wrote:If "Best Night Ever" is an event which already happened in the story, wouldn't it be Chapter 34 (aka "BlackJack and Littlepip's Wild Night") ?

No, Best Night Ever hasn't happened yet. :)

swicked wrote:What is the best night ever?.

The Society! BJ&Co go to a fancy dress function and get suited up!

WavemasterRyx wrote:Was going to do some work on my next Boo update, but I thought I'd take a few minutes and make this from the template I have saved.

Spoiler:

I honestly thought that was an axe for a good long while and kept staring at it wondering why she was holding an axe until it hit me that it was a flag.

Meleagridis wrote:

swicked wrote:What is the best night ever?.

The Society! BJ&Co go to a fancy dress function and get suited up!

Yeah, you're probably right.

Exodus Hero wrote:I honestly thought that was an axe for a good long while and kept staring at it wondering why she was holding an axe until it hit me that it was a flag.

If your axe flaps in the breeze, you're doing it wrong.
Just sayin'.