Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by PeppyJoe Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:31 pm

I've forgotten what chapter it was in, but it was during the part of the story when Blackjack & Co. visited Thunderhead, when the idea was introduced that pegasi were watching exaggerated, serialized versions of the adventures happening in the wasteland. I've searched and searched for anyone who's taken that idea and written a story about it, because I think it'd hilarious to see a collection of heroes from mismatched stories (including at least one Dashite who is portrayed as literally the devil incarnate) fighting over-the-top monsters while lamenting about how much nicer it'd be if they were in the Enclave. Sadly, however, it seems no one has done so and my brief attempt at it was unsuccessful.

Someone please make that happen! ...Although, I believe at that point, it would be a fanfic of a collection of fanfics of a fanfic. I'm not sure how much deeper we can go before something breaks.

by decumos Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:39 am

SilentCarto wrote:
I suppose Lacunae is the weird alien counselor.

Lacunae is Seven of Nine, duh!
As for captain... Well, I believe that Blackjack could be promoted to that position. And Rampage can now be assigned to empty position of a Security Chief. She'll be like Worf: "Captain, can we shoot them? Captain! Let's shoot them! Captain! Captain!"

by Borsuq Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:20 pm

Shouldn't Rampage be the red shirt? Getting killed over and over?

by SilentCarto Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:10 am

decumos wrote:As for captain... Well, I believe that Blackjack could be promoted to that position. And Rampage can now be assigned to empty position of a Security Chief. She'll be like Worf: "Captain, can we shoot them? Captain! Let's shoot them! Captain! Captain!"

Borsuq wrote:Shouldn't Rampage be the red shirt? Getting killed over and over?

I approve of both these ideas.

by O. Hinds Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:58 am

I thought that people might like to know that the first draft of the final chapter is complete. I've read it. It's good. :)

by Somber Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:02 pm

No, it's not. it's fail... so much pure fail...

by Icy Shake Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:25 am

O. Hinds wrote:I thought that people might like to know that the first draft of the final chapter is complete. I've read it. It's good. :)

Somber wrote:No, it's not. it's fail... so much pure fail...

Magic 8-ball, bearing in mind his prediction track record, is Somber right this time?:

by ILM126 Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:18 pm

Oh wow! An edit on the Index Page caused the page to become busy Dash clapping

The 11 word edit that stopped part of a fandom :P:

by Icy Shake Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:00 pm

ILM126 wrote:Oh wow! An edit on the Index Page caused the page to become busy

The 11 word edit that stopped part of a fandom :

It's really happening, isn't it? Why

It's really one of the only ones I can think of that's been continuously regularly updated, even if the publishing rate dropped to a lower plateau a couple times, that felt like it would just keep on going forever. What else is there that's been going since before season two, is ongoing, and didn't have giant breaks? It'll be strange for it to be over, as I'd been following it and/or FoE for pretty much as long as I've been in the fandom, with catching up on FoE (probably into the mid-20s, early 30s at the time) being almost the first thing I did after watching Season 1 and wanting more.

by O. Hinds Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:34 pm

It looks like we won't be finishing this weekend, though; sorry. Still, we made some quite good progress; the final chapter is ready for release, and we're probably about halfway or so through the epilogue.

by Icy Shake Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:46 pm

Oh well. I'm gonna bright side this. I'll probably get to read it fresher than I am now, or with more flexibility for staying up for it, when it is released.

by CD Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:37 pm

O. Hinds wrote:It looks like we won't be finishing this weekend, though; sorry. Still, we made some quite good progress; the final chapter is ready for release, and we're probably about halfway or so through the epilogue.

I had kind of tempered my hopes, but it's good to hear the last chapter was done so quickly. I'm sure that second half of the epilogue will go quickly.

by Somber Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:33 am

Yup. We have about 6 more pages to go and then done. We'd have been done if I had gotten off my ass and wrote but, sigh, ce la vie.

Also, one of my editors proposed something to me that, at first glance, I rejected and now I have to give it serious consideration. Grrrr... I need a focus group.

by Icy Shake Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:13 pm

Somber wrote:Yup. We have about 6 more pages to go and then done. We'd have been done if I had gotten off my ass and wrote but, sigh, ce la vie.

Also, one of my editors proposed something to me that, at first glance, I rejected and now I have to give it serious consideration. Grrrr... I need a focus group.

Doesn't that roughly exist, under the name of "The Editing Team"? Spike

swicked wrote:I am a very evil person.

This is known.

by **RoboRed** Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:42 pm

swicked wrote:I am a very evil person.

trufax

by Icy Shake Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:54 pm

Might as well get this out now, I guess.

Editing:

by O. Hinds Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:13 am

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you very much as always.

Icy Shake wrote:"Zanzebra" shows up a few times. Should this be that?

I'm going to leave it as it is.

Icy Shake wrote:weird case, but should that be "One", "Seven", "Nine", "Fourteen", "Fifteen", and "Eighteen"?

Hm... No, yeah, I'm leaning towards this being a special case.

by Evilgidgit Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:51 pm

The end is nigh!

by O. Hinds Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:11 am

Bother. Equestria did have oxygen talismans. In my defense, they were only mentioned only three times in PH and not at all in the original, but still, I ought to have remembered to check even if I didn't remember the fact. I am very greatly sorry for this error I have made. Okay, the rockets are still salvageable, though. Oxygen talismans take power. Furthermore oxygen atoms are heavier, which may mean that each oxygen atom takes more power to produce than each hydrogen atom. A reactor small and light enough to fit in a rocket can only provide so much power. If the reactor cannot fuel enough biprop production to accelerate the rocket at more than 1g, the ship still can't SSTO or definitely safely make a powered descent. A LOX tank is less versatile, but this was to be a temporary design before moving on to better rockets; it was also intended, I assume, to only make planned trips to Equus orbit and the moon. A cooling talisman for the LOX tank is presumably much cheaper in terms of energy. And might lead to the overall system being cheaper in cost (during wartime) than building ships with powerful enough reactors using the technology of the day, if that was possible at all. That's a... somewhat iffy support, but I think/hope that it's good enough.

by SilentCarto Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:33 am

O. Hinds wrote:Furthermore, for full combustion, two atoms of oxygen would have to be produced for every atom of hydrogen

*cough* other way around *cough*
Oh, excuse me.

Your logic is sound, though. Each oxygen atom would cost approximately 8 times the energy of the hydrogen needed to burn it, and let's be honest, combustion is a crappy way to accelerate propellant. There's a concept being worked on right now for a SSTO that would carry a hydrogen supply, superheated by ground-based microwave transmission to achieve greater efficiency than any combustion-based rocket. If we assume that the reactor is running at maximum power just to generate hydrogen for launch, you'd need eight of the same reactor to produce enough oxygen... to launch the first reactor. So lifting the oxygen generators would take more hydrogen and more oxygen, and while you'd eventually get ahead of the game, now you're talking about a truly humongous rocket that introduces the engineering challenges of larger-scale construction, concerns about what happens if you have a failure, and so on. A smaller, simpler rocket, though more limited in capability, is entirely reasonable as a first step.

So yeah, it totally makes sense for the first generation of rockets to carry expendable LOX tanks instead, and the later generation to do away with combustion altogether. You're really just looking for hot gas shooting out the back of the rocket, so there's no reason not to skip the middleman if you can.

Plus, cooling talismans for the LOX (and the oxygen generation talismans themselves) can run on external power anyway since they're not really needed once you light it up.

by Derpmind Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:12 pm

swicked wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:I thought that people might like to know that the first draft of the final chapter is complete. I've read it. It's good. :)
...and now Somber has written "The End". I have seen it.
I've not finished my readthrough of the epilogue but this is a thing that is happening.

"The End"? As in literally the words "The End"?

Epilogue - Tomorrow wrote:
The End.

Like that?

*Actually cries, like, three or four freaking tears*

by Icy Shake Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:21 pm

Beyond that, there may be two different types of gas talisman, one of which has inputs and one which makes it from nothing. Stable 99 had talismans that converted "carbon dioxide and impurities" into oxygen, then into chlorine. Then there's the other type, which would be useful for rocketry, which would actually create oxygen from nothing. Since at least the outputs are tweakable, why not the inputs? Maybe the one used for setting off the explosion in the screaming room didn't create oxygen, but converted nitrogen to oxygen.

But if it's a creation issue, then what about the water talisman for the Seahorse, which seems to actually create water for its propulsion (or possibly other cases, including in FoE)?

by SilentCarto Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:21 pm

Icy Shake wrote:Beyond that, there may be two different types of gas talisman, one of which has inputs and one which makes it from nothing. Stable 99 had talismans that converted "carbon dioxide and impurities" into oxygen, then into chlorine. Then there's the other type, which would be useful for rocketry, which would actually create oxygen from nothing. Since at least the outputs are tweakable, why not the inputs? Maybe the one used for setting off the explosion in the screaming room didn't create oxygen, but converted nitrogen to oxygen.

But if it's a creation issue, then what about the water talisman for the Seahorse, which seems to actually create water for its propulsion (or possibly other cases, including in FoE)?

I don't understand your question. You're right that some talismans create while others convert, but what of it?

Actually, now that I look, the original FoE seems to depict only creation talismans. I mean, it's not totally clear that the various water and hydrogen talismans didn't purify or create it out of other atoms, but the Pink Cloud talisman explicitly pressurized Canterlot under the shield.

by O. Hinds Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:23 pm

SilentCarto wrote:*cough* other way around *cough*
Oh, excuse me.

...Argh. I know I was tired, but how did I miss that? ARGH! Right, off to make corrections...
Also, I'm not officially here yet, hence my lack of replies to anything else right now.
Thank you for pointing out this new error, for which I also extend great apologies.

by Icy Shake Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:12 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Beyond that, there may be two different types of gas talisman, one of which has inputs and one which makes it from nothing. Stable 99 had talismans that converted "carbon dioxide and impurities" into oxygen, then into chlorine. Then there's the other type, which would be useful for rocketry, which would actually create oxygen from nothing. Since at least the outputs are tweakable, why not the inputs? Maybe the one used for setting off the explosion in the screaming room didn't create oxygen, but converted nitrogen to oxygen.

But if it's a creation issue, then what about the water talisman for the Seahorse, which seems to actually create water for its propulsion (or possibly other cases, including in FoE)?
I don't understand your question. You're right that some talismans create while others convert, but what of it?

Actually, now that I look, the original FoE seems to depict only creation talismans. I mean, it's not totally clear that the various water and hydrogen talismans didn't purify or create it out of other atoms, but the Pink Cloud talisman explicitly pressurized Canterlot under the shield.

Basically I originally thought it might raise an issue about timing if using the change/create distinction because a water talisman able to propel an 80' ship must have a massive throughput, making both oxygen and hydrogen, all for the magical output of a few spark batteries or a normal unicorn. So that might have supported the rockets. But because there were five years after the moon mission during which the talismans could have been improved before the megaspells happened. In retrospect because of the time difference the capabilities at the end of the war probably don't matter.

by O. Hinds Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:48 pm

SilentCarto wrote:Your logic is sound, though.

Ah, thanks!

And thank you for your more detailed analysis.

SilentCarto wrote:Plus, cooling talismans for the LOX (and the oxygen generation talismans themselves) can run on external power anyway since they're not really needed once you light it up.

Well, the internal LOX tank is actually used to land, remember. But that would apply to the launch boosters, yes.

Derpmind wrote:The End"? As in literally the words "The End"?

Those words have been typed, yes. I've read and commented to the end of the epilogue.

Derpmind wrote:Like that?

Well, the format is slightly different, as I recall. :)

Derpmind wrote:*Actually cries, like, three or four freaking tears*

Yeah, it's... a big thing.

Icy Shake wrote:Maybe the one used for setting off the explosion in the screaming room didn't create oxygen, but converted nitrogen to oxygen.

There's also one that shows up later supplying medical oxygen. But maybe, yes... Of course, that would lead to a confusing terminology issue.

Icy Shake wrote:But if it's a creation issue, then what about the water talisman for the Seahorse, which seems to actually create water for its propulsion

That can have some interesting uses, yes. :)
Though I'm not sure quite what you're asking here, I'm afraid.

Icy Shake wrote:Actually, now that I look, the original FoE seems to depict only creation talismans. I mean, it's not totally clear that the various water and hydrogen talismans didn't purify or create it out of other atoms, but the Pink Cloud talisman explicitly pressurized Canterlot under the shield.

Aye.

Icy Shake wrote:In retrospect because of the time difference the capabilities at the end of the war probably don't matter.

Ah, good. I was worried for a bit in that paragraph. :)
And yeah, we do know that technology had by the end of the war advanced to the point that that ESS-A1, a much larger rocket propelled entirely by internally-generated hydrogen and capable of SSTO, was buildable. And for all we know, the Seahorse was the very latest design when the bombs fell.

by SilentCarto Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:59 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Well, the internal LOX tank is actually used to land, remember. But that would apply to the launch boosters, yes.

Oh, that's right. Thanks.

O. Hinds wrote:And yeah, we do know that technology had by the end of the war advanced to the point that that ESS-A1, a much larger rocket propelled entirely by internally-generated hydrogen and capable of SSTO, was buildable. And for all we know, the Seahorse was the very latest design when the bombs fell.

Though given that the Seahorse is powered by spark batteries or direct casting rather than a reactor, it seems more likely that it's simply the magical version of a pumpjet. Was there any instance where it explicitly produced water without any potential intake?

by O. Hinds Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:50 am

SilentCarto wrote:Was there any instance where it explicitly produced water without any potential intake?

Well, here's where the engine is introduced:

Spoiler:

I suppose that there could be an intake, but Oilcan said that there wasn't.

by SilentCarto Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:09 am

O. Hinds wrote:I suppose that there could be an intake, but Oilcan said that there wasn't.

I guess this is the part where I say, "It's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit."

by O. Hinds Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:58 pm

Sorry.

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