Sister forum[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Icy Shake Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:25 am
- Chapter Forty Nine Overall Thoughts:
- Okay, this one was kind of a mixture in terms of weight. It starts with Blackjack's second death experience/soul vision, where she meets Snips in the Hell of the mass of souls under Hoofington before being summoned back to her body by Snails. While there, she experiences the pain and violation of the torturous blasts going beyond their target at the center, which Blackjack sees.
Back at Meatlocker, they deal with Ahuizotl, getting him exiled and buying Carrion's Contract, enabling him to kill his former master. At the same time, plans are being made for what Silver Spoon and Snails will do, and they decide to search for Tiara and Trixie. Blackjack gives them Carrion's contract and convinces Xanthe to go with them. While there, Blackjack has Xanthe move all the recordings that have been popping up as flashbacks from her brain to her PipBuck, and as a result discovers someone's been recording from her eyes and ears and transmitting the data . . . somewhere. She also has a minor crisis of faith (in addition to her greater feeling of violation—which she doesn't know the cause of because of the difference in memory in mind and soul) after she talks to Boing, who can't bring herself to forgive Blackjack but doesn't think she should be sorry, either, because everyone is bad and hurtful going to hurt others. If nobody else is sorry, why should Blackjack be? And if she forgives Blackjack, then she'd have to think about forgiving all the rest. Blackjack gets broken out of her funk by walking in on Stygius and Psychoshy having sex and remembering that there are good things in life, even if they're fleeting.
As they leave Meatlocker, Tenebra shows up and chew out Stygius, getting him to come home. He agrees reluctantly, because he is their prince, while extolling the good side of the world outside the batpony kingdom and the people who live there, but also says that Psychoshy can't come with and if she did, she could never leave again. Psychoshy insists she wants to go with, and Tenebra says she'll talk to their father, and the bomb drops that she and Stygius had been meant to be married. Rampage, having helped convince Psychoshy (now taking the name Whisper) to go rather than face a life of regrets, deepens her existential crisis since she's envious of Whisper finding out what she wanted in life and someone to love and also no longer has someone else's problems to work on and distract from her own.
Then they're at Riverside, which is thriving. Blackjack gets her legs fixed by Rover, but seriously assaults a hellhound while immobilized because she thought he was going to rape her. Rover isn't happy about this, but both he and Gnarr, the hellhound, take it surprisingly in stride.
Next up, it's back to Chapel. P-21 is doing better, but notes that his long term drug use has done a number on his body. The town is rebuilding, but really shoddily. Scotch Tape would like to do things better, but believes nobody will listen to her and doesn't want a toilet cutie mark. She's recovering, but has postoperative pneumonia and is supposed to be confined to bed. Rampage continues to brood, and P-21 and Scotch go to talk to her as Blackjack goes to speak to Glory. It seems to start out well, with her much happier than would be expected given how angry P-21 said she would be. But after confirming Blackjack is okay in mind and body, Glory explodes on her, raising her to the air and throwing her into a wall before flying towards her in anger as the chapter ends. It should also be noted that a recurring theme throughout the chapter, clearly leading up to this, was Blackjack demonstrating an obliviousness to the idea of sexual exclusivity and having trouble understanding the actions or statements of people who acted based on that morality.
One thing to note is that this was a pretty high-comedy concentration chapter. In addition to parts spread throughout scenes, just about every scene in the real present ended with a joke. This was repeated on the chapter level with its end on the largely comedic scene of Blackjack returning to Star House and Glory's reaction.
Beyond that, a whole bunch of plot hooks were dropped. There're the balefire bomb the Remnant took from Xanthe's home, the two dozen missiles the MOA took during the war, the cybernetic mind control of hellhounds by the Enclave and the stuff they were trying to get from the old space program's launch site, hints about Luna's (poorly hidden, at least from Psalm) second identity as Eclipse, hints leading in to the Battle of Shattered Hoof Ridge, the batponies and Psychoshy's leaving, and most of all the Goddess's ability to control Blackjack.
I think that from a character perspective, the most interesting things this chapter was Luna. Sure, Stygius and Psychoshy had their moments, but I think that in a way more was done with less of them last chapter. There was some more of the same, with Psychoshy's insecurity and the admittedly neat twist of Stygius seeming to be worried about hurting Blackjack's feelings, plus his reasons for leaving, but it wasn't gripping me the same way as it did in the high intensity situation in Hightower. Luna, on the other hand, is showing some disturbing darker sides, from the extreme, close interest in Psalm's fake assassination attempt of a zebra general to the dismissal of the death of his child to using the promise of Luna's forgiveness (while in the guise of Eclipse) as a way to calm and manipulate Psalm. And all that before getting to her conversations with Celestia and Goldenblood, where she takes what I think was on the one hand the realistic, skeptical stance that the zebras' offer of a peace conference at Shattered Hoof Ridge as a ploy, was perhaps too forceful in her insistence that Celestia not go—without making the obvious counteroffer of sending an ambassador who wouldn't be as massive a liability. The emotional climax was when Luna dropped the "you quit, it's not like I wanted this job" line and Celestia responds with how much she's regretted it and how Luna was supposed to bring a brighter future, not a darker one. Which, if we can think about it for a second, is a little ironic. Now, while this is in some ways a good point, it's important to remember that it arose from a number of things including Celestia not ruling with her sister as she said they were meant to at the end of the season one opener, her hysterical and flighty irresponsibility in quitting the moment something a little worse than might be expected to happen in war happened which could be traced to a decision she made which would have been a mistake if the situation she had made it under had been different, and having no goddamn transition or framework for the transfer of power. Basically, it's amazing Equestria took care of itself as well as it did while she was on the throne, because she just doesn't come across as a good ruler in this universe. Getting back on track, Luna is rightly worried (and that's just based on what she knew at the time; all the more so with hindsight), and Goldenblood outlines the ways things could go wrong—best case, Celestia dies a martyr, worst she's held for ransom—and Luna is horrified by both, but especially the implication that it's better she die than be captured and the implicit corollary that they need to make sure that if something goes wrong that's how it ends. To his credit, Goldenblood does suggest some hope that maybe it is genuine, and maybe peace at the cost of her abdication would be worth it, but Luna insists she must remain the ruling princess, wanting to show everyone that she's no less than her sister, that she's more than Nightmare Moon (the irony there is palpable, given some of the less happy changes she's made) or the mare who (fun) scares children on Nightmare Night.
All in all, this chapter was perhaps a little light in terms of things directly moving (especially for a 28k chapter), but this was made up for by the fact that it served its purpose as a transitional chapter very well, ending a few storylines and introducing a number of others while keeping some action and immediate character work as well, plus some good imagery and humor throughout.
- Chapter Forty Nine Editing:
- Snips, what is this place?” I asked as I looked around the sea of floating lights.
should have only one space after quotation
“What did you mean ‘dead dead?’”
the question mark should be outside of the single quotation marks, but inside the double
“What happened? What did you do
should have second space after question mark
“You don’t have to throw those feelings away, Trixie,” another mare whispered in my-- in our heads.
symmetrical spacing around dash?
If he saw me like this… No!
should have second space after ellipsis
him thanks, though. “Thank you,
three spaces after period
“Wait…mater fut[u]tor
should have space after ellipsis
doing Celestia knows what. Honestly, I can’t blame
black and white ponytail. “Do they have a working
nostrils that put me on edge. I shivered at the smell
only one space after period
Cause they got my… my… ah…
" 'Cause"
“What the hell was that!?” I asked as I
should have only one space after quotation
But to hear that being good was just some sort of self-delusion... Worse, a form of self-aggrandizement
should have second space after ellipsis or not capitalize "Worse"
off getting the doctor. I trotted over and
only one space after the period
“Here. I’m giving you Carrion’s contract.
"contract" should be capitalized
ruined the neighborhood. Of course,
three spaces after period
CEASE THY- HEY!
second hyphen for dash
were not false. But not all surfacers
only one space after period
Stygius’ eyes popped wide.
It took a bit of explaining, during which time Lacunae seemed completely fascinated by the magical powers of Stygius’ sister.
"Stygius's"
didn’t go red on my E.F.S. Strings of lights
She had a point. Seeing Glory again would
three spaces after period
were circulating. Most of the expressions
only one space after period
“Hey Security,” called a voice from beside me,
Comma after "hey"?
skewer, and all. The others
Lacunae said. “You can stay here
and talk with your friend.” He knew the
only one space after period
I couldn’t be because of me... it just... couldn’t..
the end needs either one dot more or one fewer
couldn’t..
“Where did all these people come from
Is this indent made of spaces instead of a tab?
limb with a sigh. “My friends are scared
only one space after period
they’re offering a princess’ ransom for
"princess's"
Give lots of parts.” He chuckled throatily
only one space after period
The looming ministry hubs along Ministry Walk were still relatively lively, but few of the great pale marble structure’s stained glass windows showed signs of light and life.
"structures' "
“Thou art supposed to use the-“
second hyphen for dash
to my hooves. “So, you have an invitation, right?”
three spaces after period
frowning as he scrutinized the invitation “Mmm…
Missing period
“Shhh… shhh…. You didn’t know
second ellipsis should have only three dots, and a second space following it
too much trouble. A dark castle with most
only one space after period
“You just said-“
second hyphen for dash
No… No, Celestia lived through the war, right
should have second space after ellipsis or not capitalize second "No"
myself would be nice too. Cozy as it is,
only one space after period
Actually, scratch the “it”; there was no question whatsoever that ‘it’ was a ‘he’.
should all be single quotation marks
me or rut me... Oh Celestia! Was it coming
should have second space after ellipsis or not capitalize "Oh"
“No idea. I- yipe!”
second hyphen for dash
something about it, though. I…. crap
ellipsis shoudl have only three dots
“Just one question, though, Rover: Why do you keep talking like that?!”
"Why" shouldn't be capitalized
Now that I was closer... There was a stockade
should have second space after ellipsis or not capitalize "There"
I heard you’ve been busy. Did you find
only one space after period
I should have stayed and-”
by that septic trench they call a toi-”
I’m just so glad to see-“
second hyphen for dash
And Carrion’s got that damned contract.
It’s his stupid contract that’s exiling him with this lump of shit.
So long as he held my contract, I was honor bound to do as he commanded and remain silent.
Apparently, someone else holding their contract was the point of being a griffin… and with that, they eclipsed zebras as weirdest species in the wasteland.
Reading it, I understood him a little better. He’d been a soldier, and a realist, but his contract didn’t allow him to be used as an assassin.
And despite how wretched and undeserving Ahuizotl had been, Carrion had upheld his contract to the letter.
"contract" should be capitalized
- Other Editing:
- 21:
There were memos from Little Wing Imports asking about delayed permits for zebra wares, contract agreements being negotiated with griffins to supplement pegasus forces during Winter Wrap Up, buffalo mineral access requests…
Potential capitalization of "contract"
38:
“You’re welcome. Near as I can tell, leaving you alive in this hellhole is worse punishment than killing you. Besides, the robots in the tunnels will probably do that. As for us, our contract is done. We have the Flux needed, and we'll deduct his payment,” he said with a wave at the pinned ghoul, "to cover the extra costs and loss of life." The griffin gave a snide grin.
Potential capitalization of "contract"
45:
“Who? Carrion? Why, he’s just my muscle. That’s all. It’s his job to turn troublemakers into bloody messes for the ferals. I own his contract.” Ahuizotl chuckled to himself with a sly grin.
Potential capitalization of "contract"
47:
“As long as Ahuizotl has my contract, I have to do what he says.”
Potential capitalization of "contract"
58:
“Hey! This is our place! Get--“ one griffin female shouted as she rose. Then she took in just what she was talking to as my eyes locked onto hers. “By the First Egg… who the fuck are you?”
“Nopony you want to fuck with tonight,” I answered. The force of the Goddess was pushing me to end the three; there was no future for the griffins, zebras, or dragons. Their extinction was unfortunate but inevitable. I thought back that they might be protecting the ponies, some contract arranged.
Potential capitalization of "contract"
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by WavemasterRyx Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:09 am
Well... you can always rewrite it for the movie adaption, sir. That's pretty common.Somber wrote:Horizons is three stories all smooshed together. If I'd actually been a writer worth crap, I would have focused on clustering the story. Book 1 would have been BJ getting EC-1101, dealing with the zodiacs, and culimating with Deus and getting the Info on Horizons. Book 2 would have focused on the war between the reapers and the Steel Rangers, culminating in the sea pony. Book three would have focused on the east side of the river, culminating in High Tower (and dealing with Sanguine THEN). Book 4 would have been Thunderhead. Book 5 is Horizons.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by SilentCarto Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:30 am
I'm simultaneously reminded of two quotes. The first is from Malcolm Gladwell, who wrote in Outliers that it takes roughly ten thousand hours of practice to achieve mastery in a field. The second is a similar sentiment expressed by Chuck Jones of Warner Brothers fame: "Every artist has thousands of bad drawings in them, and the only way to get rid of them is to draw them out." In other words, it's good that you recognize where you could have improved the dramatic arc of this story, but don't beat yourself up over not doing it that way from the start. Every awesome writer in the world had to screw up over and over to achieve awesomeness, and I don't think any of them ever looked at themselves and said, "Okay, I don't need to improve any more."Somber wrote:Horizons is three stories all smooshed together. If I'd actually been a writer worth crap, I would have focused on clustering the story.
In any case, the improvement you're talking about is on the "right side of the decimal point" -- it's not the difference between
and 
, it's the difference between and 
.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Somber Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:27 am
Rewrite... Horizons?
I really need to learn how to imbed images...
Anyway, no.
Thank you Icy, for your analysis, as always. You reminded me of two mistakes I made. One is that stygius can talk with his helmet. He didn't have in in 67. But, another is that Tenebra talks in the royal canterlot tongue. I had her talking to blackjack in the informal tongue. Might be something we'd need to fancy up. Not sure...
I really need to learn how to imbed images...
Anyway, no.
Thank you Icy, for your analysis, as always. You reminded me of two mistakes I made. One is that stygius can talk with his helmet. He didn't have in in 67. But, another is that Tenebra talks in the royal canterlot tongue. I had her talking to blackjack in the informal tongue. Might be something we'd need to fancy up. Not sure...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Scienza Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:25 am
I have returned after many, many weeks spent AFK and found that there is a new chapter and many, many pages of speculation just waiting for me. Huzzah!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:40 am
After that whole Alex Louis Armstrong Steel Ranger fiasco, I think you're going to be hard-pressed to write fancy
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by RoboRed Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:06 pm
This probably means you also missed the several Scienzabaits I posted in the chat thread.Scienza wrote:I have returned after many, many weeks spent AFK and found that there is a new chapter and many, many pages of speculation just waiting for me. Huzzah!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by O. Hinds Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:24 pm
IIRC and as far as I can find, he never actually mentioned it; she came up with it on her own.Icy Shake wrote:Yeah, but I feel like the situations are very different, with Red Eye largely being an evil character using "corrupted generosity" to mess with Littlepip's head, taking advantage of her weird obsession with Virtues.
Good point.Icy Shake wrote:Part of the issue is that he's very consciously doing it, in a way that may well increase the chances of things falling apart compared to a more consensual change from the status quo (among other things, he's putting some pretty clearly terrible people in positions of power—and I'm not talking stuff from MN7 but for example the mercenary forces), not to mention setting himself up to be in essence the god of the new world, whatever his protests to the contrary. In contrast, where Blackjack made the same mistake, it was because of something closer to an unthinking carelessness which she rapidly came to regret and listed among her greatest mistakes—and didn't repeat.
re error spotting and commentary:
Ah, thank you very much as always.
Hm, I ran into that problem yesterday with an unrelated doc while in preview mode.Icy Shake wrote:Oh, and is anyone else running into problems with the Google Docs pages? I'm being kicked out with an error
I deduce that there's something in the Chapter Forty Nine Editing about the capitalization of "contract"? I think I see what you're saying, though. I decided to capitalize those examples when they were said by a griffin or after Blackjack has the significant of the Contracts explained to her. I did 38, 47, and 58, in other words; in 21, Blackjack was just reading it and wouldn't know the significance. In 45, Ahuizotl was saying it and probably not respecting it.
:DRyx wrote:Well... you can always rewrite it for the movie adaption, sir. That's pretty common.
No, she was trying to be dramatic. I think it's fine.Somber wrote:Might be something we'd need to fancy up. Not sure...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:31 pm
I'd LOVE a Fallout movie, whether it has ponies or humans
The real problem I can see would be picking a quest line or two to use as the backbone of the story though
Who's the Red Eye and Fillydelphia of Fallout? 1, 2 or 3? New Vegas? Another game?
The real problem I can see would be picking a quest line or two to use as the backbone of the story though
Who's the Red Eye and Fillydelphia of Fallout? 1, 2 or 3? New Vegas? Another game?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Silver136 Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:38 pm
Fallout 3, the Pitt DLC. Red Eye is the guy that leads the raiders. Pittsburgh is Fillydelphia. I can tell you what the guy looks like but not his name...and as fallout is my favorite series (probably 1000 hrs total play adding all 5 games) I'm dissapointed in myself. I believe it starts with an A, but all I can think of is LOTR for some reason...Vinylshadow wrote:I'd LOVE a Fallout movie, whether it has ponies or humans
The real problem I can see would be picking a quest line or two to use as the backbone of the story though
Who's the Red Eye and Fillydelphia of Fallout? 1, 2 or 3? New Vegas? Another game?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Scienza Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:30 pm
Damn it.RoboRed wrote:This probably means you also missed the several Scienzabaits I posted in the chat thread.Scienza wrote:I have returned after many, many weeks spent AFK and found that there is a new chapter and many, many pages of speculation just waiting for me. Huzzah!
Trawling chat thread nao.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:15 pm
Silver136 wrote:Fallout 3, the Pitt DLC. Red Eye is the guy that leads the raiders. Pittsburgh is Fillydelphia. I can tell you what the guy looks like but not his name...and as fallout is my favorite series (probably 1000 hrs total play adding all 5 games) I'm dissapointed in myself. I believe it starts with an A, but all I can think of is LOTR for some reason...Vinylshadow wrote:I'd LOVE a Fallout movie, whether it has ponies or humans
The real problem I can see would be picking a quest line or two to use as the backbone of the story though
Who's the Red Eye and Fillydelphia of Fallout? 1, 2 or 3? New Vegas? Another game?
You're thinking of Ishmael Ashur, I believe
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Silver136 Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:54 pm
There it is. Thank you, it's been driving me nuts, and its good to have the name.VinylShadow wrote:
You're thinking of Ishmael Ashur, I believe
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:06 pm
Of course
I wonder who Sanguine and the Zodiacs are based on
I wonder who Sanguine and the Zodiacs are based on
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by RoboRed Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:18 pm
Do eet.Scienza wrote:Damn it.RoboRed wrote:This probably means you also missed the several Scienzabaits I posted in the chat thread.Scienza wrote:I have returned after many, many weeks spent AFK and found that there is a new chapter and many, many pages of speculation just waiting for me. Huzzah!
Trawling chat thread nao.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by O. Hinds Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:01 pm
Not everything has to be taken from the games, you know...Vinylshadow wrote:I wonder who Sanguine and the Zodiacs are based on
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:08 pm
True enough, it's usually just the locations...
I kinda like the idea of a group based on a Zodiac though
Probably has a high turnover rate though, that's gotta be a pain
I kinda like the idea of a group based on a Zodiac though
Probably has a high turnover rate though, that's gotta be a pain
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Silver136 Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:12 pm
There are a lot of Zodiak style groups, not just in games but in media overall. They're essentially a group of bounty hunters whose character is based on some symbology. There's probably a trope about it somewhere, but I haven't looked at any tropes in a while.Vinylshadow wrote:True enough, it's usually just the locations...
I kinda like the idea of a group based on a Zodiac though
Probably has a high turnover rate though, that's gotta be a pain
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Scienza Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:23 pm
And, to be honest, I feel like the parts that aren't from the game are the strongest elements in the FoE verse (Like, say, Lucidity) and the weakest parts are the ones that are directly taken from the games (The Enclave in the original).O. Hinds wrote:Not everything has to be taken from the games, you know...Vinylshadow wrote:I wonder who Sanguine and the Zodiacs are based on
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:50 pm
Gotta spice it up a little, toss in a few meglomaniacs, some level-headed leaders with less-than-ideal designs and mix it up with some post-apocalyptic storytelling and ponies and you've got a good start
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Icy Shake Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:58 pm
You're welcome. I just wish I had more worthwhile things to say this time around. Can't turn out that way every time though, I suppose.Somber wrote:Thank you Icy, for your analysis, as always. You reminded me of two mistakes I made. One is that stygius can talk with his helmet. He didn't have in in 67. But, another is that Tenebra talks in the royal canterlot tongue. I had her talking to blackjack in the informal tongue. Might be something we'd need to fancy up. Not sure...
On Stygius, does that affect how Blackjack would see him mating with Tenebra (practical genetics, not incest taboo), given that it's down from both of them having a major symptom of genetic collapse to just her? Specifically, this:
Chapter 67 wrote:I pulled out the spear haft and held her as she went from seizing to crying. Stygius couldn’t speak coherently. Tenebra had seizures. I wonder what would have happened if they actually had kids together, then shoved that ugly thought aside.
Well damn, she did, didn't she? I think the basic point still holds, though, that he wasn't so much corrupted generosity as a simple megalomaniac who happened to have some programs that would be good.O. Hinds wrote:IIRC and as far as I can find, he never actually mentioned it; she came up with it on her own.Icy Shake wrote:Yeah, but I feel like the situations are very different, with Red Eye largely being an evil character using "corrupted generosity" to mess with Littlepip's head, taking advantage of her weird obsession with Virtues.Good point.Icy Shake wrote:Part of the issue is that he's very consciously doing it, in a way that may well increase the chances of things falling apart compared to a more consensual change from the status quo (among other things, he's putting some pretty clearly terrible people in positions of power—and I'm not talking stuff from MN7 but for example the mercenary forces), not to mention setting himself up to be in essence the god of the new world, whatever his protests to the contrary. In contrast, where Blackjack made the same mistake, it was because of something closer to an unthinking carelessness which she rapidly came to regret and listed among her greatest mistakes—and didn't repeat.
Not forty nine specifically; I noticed the pattern mainly in forty eight, but didn't think at the time to check elsewhere. At any rate, that way of dealing with it sounds fine, and the point that Ahuizotl would think of it as a common contract is a good one.O. Hinds wrote:I deduce that there's something in the Chapter Forty Nine Editing about the capitalization of "contract"? I think I see what you're saying, though. I decided to capitalize those examples when they were said by a griffin or after Blackjack has the significant of the Contracts explained to her. I did 38, 47, and 58, in other words; in 21, Blackjack was just reading it and wouldn't know the significance. In 45, Ahuizotl was saying it and probably not respecting it.
Yeah, that's what I figured too. She was angry with her brother, and, after all, the RCL is for the "tourists" (the opinion didn't come from her, but there's no reason it couldn't be more broadly held than just by Lionheart). I figure it was in forty nine and forty four a simple case of putting on a show for the outsiders, abandoned at home after they were normalized as a new part of their society.O. Hinds wrote:No, she was trying to be dramatic. I think it's fine.Somber wrote:Might be something we'd need to fancy up. Not sure...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by O. Hinds Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:57 am
Sigh; I thought we got all of those. Thank you as always!Icy Shake wrote:Stygius couldn’t speak coherently.
Hm…
There we go. Slightly tricky fix, but I think that it works.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by SilentCarto Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:24 am
I haven't played the Pitt, but I went and looked that up after reading FOE. And you know? I was disappointed in the gladiatorial arena. Kkat had a much more interesting risk/reward idea than just tossing some radioactive barrels in to give you a time limit. (Anyway, how does it make sense that the fighters, ostensibly slaves, can bring in any weapons they possess, which they shouldn't have, because they're slaves?)Silver136 wrote:Fallout 3, the Pitt DLC. Red Eye is the guy that leads the raiders. Pittsburgh is Fillydelphia. I can tell you what the guy looks like but not his name...and as fallout is my favorite series (probably 1000 hrs total play adding all 5 games) I'm dissapointed in myself. I believe it starts with an A, but all I can think of is LOTR for some reason...Vinylshadow wrote:Who's the Red Eye and Fillydelphia of Fallout? 1, 2 or 3? New Vegas? Another game?
Names to run away from really fast.Vinylshadow wrote:You're thinking of Ishmael Ashur, I believe
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Silver136 Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:28 am
Actually, the Pitt was one of my favorite FO3 DLC's. It put an interesting angle on morality in the wasteland, though I generally find myself siding with Ashur. Call me evil, but that escaped slave guy is a huge prick once you meet him again, and Ashur really is accomplishing something with the labor.SilentCarto wrote:Names to run away from really fast.Vinylshadow wrote:You're thinking of Ishmael Ashur, I believe
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by SilentCarto Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:49 am
I'm seeing the error too, by the way. Whenever it loads, it pops up a box saying "File Unavailable -- Sorry, there's a problem with this file. Please reload."O. Hinds wrote:Hm, I ran into that problem yesterday with an unrelated doc while in preview mode.Icy Shake wrote:Oh, and is anyone else running into problems with the Google Docs pages? I'm being kicked out with an error
Remind me again why we're not using FimFiction? (No, seriously, I'm not being snotty about this...)
You know, I had this discussion about Red Eye back in the day, too. In short, my view is that a society can't be stable when it's founded on the idea that "when the going gets tough, the tough get ruthless". The slave labor may be able to accomplish huge projects, but those kids growing up in Red Eye's school will always have it lurking in the back of their heads that when things go wrong, the first step to fixing it is, "So we'll set up slave camps here, here, and here..." Ultimately, you can't create a society that respects human rights (or... pony rights... you know what I mean!) on a foundation of inhumanity.Silver136 wrote:Actually, the Pitt was one of my favorite FO3 DLC's. It put an interesting angle on morality in the wasteland, though I generally find myself siding with Ashur. Call me evil, but that escaped slave guy is a huge prick once you meet him again, and Ashur really is accomplishing something with the labor.
(Before anyone brings up slavery in the US as a counterexample, I want to point out that our founding documents were quite clear about universal freedom, and it took a vicious war to end the hypocrisy about it. I could easily make the argument that the trauma of the Civil War was equivalent to a revolution, even if the nation wasn't technically destroyed in the process.)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Silver136 Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:28 am
Now I actually agree with you here, and were I in his shoes there were a lot of things I would change. However, in Red Eye's 30, maybe 40, years of life he's accomplished more to bring back a stable society than the wasteland has by itself in 200 years. Now his methods are flawed. First off, he's enslaving the wrong people. Are they easy to control? Sure, but by enslaving primarily innocents and having raiders rule them, you're essentially creating more raiders and decreasing the number of good worthwhile people in the wasteland. Second, he focuses too much on a "good pony master race" idealism. By constantly trying to wipe out all other factions he's promoting violence, when making peace and working together would further his cause. Though I figure that's a good amount of the plot isn't it? Anyways my point is if he did some things just slightly differently I don't think it would've ended so badly for him, which is why I'm on team Red Eye/Ashur.SilentCarto wrote:You know, I had this discussion about Red Eye back in the day, too. In short, my view is that a society can't be stable when it's founded on the idea that "when the going gets tough, the tough get ruthless". The slave labor may be able to accomplish huge projects, but those kids growing up in Red Eye's school will always have it lurking in the back of their heads that when things go wrong, the first step to fixing it is, "So we'll set up slave camps here, here, and here..." Ultimately, you can't create a society that respects human rights (or... pony rights... you know what I mean!) on a foundation of inhumanity.Silver136 wrote:Actually, the Pitt was one of my favorite FO3 DLC's. It put an interesting angle on morality in the wasteland, though I generally find myself siding with Ashur. Call me evil, but that escaped slave guy is a huge prick once you meet him again, and Ashur really is accomplishing something with the labor.
(Before anyone brings up slavery in the US as a counterexample, I want to point out that our founding documents were quite clear about universal freedom, and it took a vicious war to end the hypocrisy about it. I could easily make the argument that the trauma of the Civil War was equivalent to a revolution, even if the nation wasn't technically destroyed in the process.)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Somber Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:41 am
Sadly, our founding documents were very clear about slavery. 3 out of every 5 slaves would be counted for congressional representation. Secondly, horrifying as it is, Red Eye does have a fast track to infrastructure thing going on. He's jumping the gun with his school and wasting resources with the Cathedral, but fact is that few individual ponies would be willing to work in environments guaranteed to kill them.
Today, in the south, there are people who deny that slavery was bad. Who think the slaves were happy to be slaves. That slavery was good. They refuse to acknowledge their ancestors were practicing an abominable act that deserved to be stopped.
Today, in the south, there are people who deny that slavery was bad. Who think the slaves were happy to be slaves. That slavery was good. They refuse to acknowledge their ancestors were practicing an abominable act that deserved to be stopped.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Silver136 Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:58 am
True, when innocents are enslaved for the leisure of the powerful, it is a great atrocity. However, there are no shortages of atrocious people out there who not only deserve, but could benefit from a lesson in humility. I'm not saying you steal a sweet roll (haha Skyrim joke) and get tossed into a slave pit (or a plantation for a real world reference), but if you murder someone, you've just gotten rid of a life that wasn't yours. In my eyes yours is now forfeit. Killing someone is a waste. They don't learn from that. Others hope to die for their crimes, they want to "go out with a bang." Slave labor as a punishment is a better alternative, especially in a post nuclear wasteland. It does build infrastructure, it helps rebuild society. At the same time, criminals see that they're not going to be killed for their crimes. Instead they are forced to work until they either learn or drop dead.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Vinylshadow Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:04 am
We've got slavery, and now what's-his-face is keeping Blackjack prisoner in the Shadowlands
I highly doubt giving him a good lay would convince him to let her go either
If I got a good lay, I'd want to keep the person around....
I highly doubt giving him a good lay would convince him to let her go either
If I got a good lay, I'd want to keep the person around....
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion
by Scienza Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:24 am
If we're going to be purely pragmatic about it, one of the major issues about the system of slavery that you propose is a matter of scalability. As your society progresses and new technology is developed, the size of the workforce needed increases exponentially, which would either necessitate a constant and proportionate increase in crime rates (which would be something that you would be trying to avoid in your perfect society), or you need another source of slaves. That's why Red Eye needed so many goddamn slaves for Fillydelphia and why over twelve million slaves were taken and brought to the Americas between the 16th and 19th centuries. Building a state around slave labor requires you to become aggressively expansionist to feed your society's continuous hunger for more labor, leading to a society that's ultimately unsustainable.
This isn't even getting into the fact that it's also just extremely repugnant ethically.
This isn't even getting into the fact that it's also just extremely repugnant ethically.
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