Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by Guest Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:43 pm

Sorry Hinds. I guess I lost my place and thought it was at the start of the sentence. My fault.

by O. Hinds Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:04 pm

Ah, no problem.

by SilentCarto Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:27 am

O. Hinds wrote:
Last wrote:Think it'd be better if you lose one of the alls. Either one.
Eh… I disagree, sorry.

That sentence does scan a bit oddly. I think keeping both "all"s emphasizes the idea that 'everyone goes or nobody does', but you could also add a comma to separate the phrases. "...to get them all on, all at once."

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:10 am

SilentCarto wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Last wrote:Think it'd be better if you lose one of the alls. Either one.
Eh… I disagree, sorry.
That sentence does scan a bit oddly. I think keeping both "all"s emphasizes the idea that 'everyone goes or nobody does', but you could also add a comma to separate the phrases. "...to get them all on, all at once."

Ooh, good idea!

by Silver136 Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:13 pm

Did we ever verify that Rampage is in she way related to a couple of the souls inside her? I can't seem to remember and I came across something during my third read just now...

by Evilgidgit Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:31 pm

Silver136 wrote:Did we ever verify that Rampage is in she way related to a couple of the souls inside her? I can't seem to remember and I came across something during my third read just now...

A lot of people on here speculate that Rampage is in fact Peppermint, a possible child of Twist and Shujaa.

by Silver136 Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:38 pm

Evilgidgit wrote:
Silver136 wrote:Did we ever verify that Rampage is in she way related to a couple of the souls inside her? I can't seem to remember and I came across something during my third read just now...
A lot of people on here speculate that Rampage is in fact Peppermint, a possible child of Twist and Shujaa.

That's what I thought. Well I've been rereading again and in chapter 50 while Rampage is having her existential crisis, Lac says that at least 3 of Rampages others think Boo is their daughter. Isn't Peppermint supposed to be a blank of Twist and Shujaa?

by Scienza Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:13 pm

Silver136 wrote:
Evilgidgit wrote:
Silver136 wrote:Did we ever verify that Rampage is in she way related to a couple of the souls inside her? I can't seem to remember and I came across something during my third read just now...
A lot of people on here speculate that Rampage is in fact Peppermint, a possible child of Twist and Shujaa.
That's what I thought. Well I've been rereading again and in chapter 50 while Rampage is having her existential crisis, Lac says that at least 3 of Rampages others think Boo is their daughter. Isn't Peppermint supposed to be a blank of Twist and Shujaa?

It might also be that the various lonely souls that make up Rampage are projecting what they want to see onto the (soulless?) blank.

by Icy Shake Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:35 pm

I read through chapter ten today. It's not exactly the cheeriest thing, but it does some heavy lifting in setting up tools, plot points, and characters. And at least the battle the Marauders were introduced in was fun.

Chapter Ten Running Thoughs:

Chapter Ten Overall Thoughts:

Chapter Ten Editing:

Other Chapter Editing:

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:10 pm

Icy Shake wrote:I read through chapter ten today. It's not exactly the cheeriest thing, but it does some heavy lifting in setting up tools, plot points, and characters. And at least the battle the Marauders were introduced in was fun.

Chapter Ten Running Thoughs:
Chapter Ten Overall Thoughts:
Chapter Ten Editing:
Other Chapter Editing:

Ah, thank you very much as always.

Icy Shake wrote:Is the second "track" necessary, since the context is clear?

I'd say so, but then, I do have my reputation for a reason.
Also, wow, Brunel gauge minecarts? From the later descriptions of the flatbeds only holding one or two ponies, I imagine that they're shorter than they are wide.

by SilentCarto Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:53 pm

Evilgidgit wrote:A lot of people on here speculate that Rampage is in fact Peppermint, a possible child of Twist and Shujaa.

Using "child" in a loose sense, anyway...

Silver136 wrote:That's what I thought. Well I've been rereading again and in chapter 50 while Rampage is having her existential crisis, Lac says that at least 3 of Rampages others think Boo is their daughter. Isn't Peppermint supposed to be a blank of Twist and Shujaa?

That's my theory, yes. It's not confirmed at this point. We currently have corpses for the last two known carriers of the Phoenix Talisman, so "Who is Rampage's body?" is still an open question. That said, her being a blank would explain why she described herself as "completely clueless" after those ghouls pulled her out of Miramare crater.

If Twist and Shujaa are two of the three who think Boo is their daughter, that makes a lot of sense. Doc Ock mentioned grandkids, so he's a possiblity, but his own children being Boo's age should have been so distant by the time he died that it wouldn't be the uppermost thing on his mind. On the other hoof, we know Officer Softheart had a daughter, and since she killed herself to protect her daughter from Nurse Candy, that would have been consuming her thoughts at the moment of death. So I strongly suspect that's our third.

Speaking of which, Hinds, there's a missing comma in chapter 31.
She put her hooves on my shoulders. “No my dear. I’m sorry. I’m sorry we didn’t work things out.
Should be "No, my dear."

O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Is the second "track" necessary, since the context is clear?
I'd say so, but then, I do have my reputation for a reason.

I agree with Shake, if you don't mind my two bits.

by O. Hinds Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:31 pm

SilentCarto wrote:Speaking of which, Hinds, there's a missing comma in chapter 31.

Ah, thank you.
…Except that I think you must be working from an earlier copy. The comma's already there, and the chapter was last modified on January 1st, according to Gdocs.

SilentCarto wrote:I agree with Shake, if you don't mind my two bits.

Aye, aye, I made the change. Most people, well, now that I think of it, most people probably don't even know what "gauge" can mean in relation to permanent way engineering… or what permanent way engineering is. I was just pointing out that, for me personally, the distinction between saying "track gauge" and "gauge" there is a meaningful one. :)

by SilentCarto Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:43 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:Speaking of which, Hinds, there's a missing comma in chapter 31.
Ah, thank you.
…Except that I think you must be working from an earlier copy. The comma's already there, and the chapter was last modified on January 1st, according to Gdocs.

That I am. Should have checked, sorry...

by O. Hinds Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:46 pm

It's fine.

by Somber Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:08 pm

Sigh... got banned from TvTropes...

by O. Hinds Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:11 pm

...What?

by Silver136 Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:11 pm

Somber wrote:Sigh... got banned from TvTropes...

That sucks...how'd that happen?

by Somber Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:19 pm

Mostly due to a guy named Seraphem, who constantly bashes Horizons. Not a big deal in and of itself. I mean, 4chan has people who specialize in bashing it. The difference is every one of them has at least read some of it. Seraphem hasn't, and more importantly, has said that he will never read it... which is fine... except that he's always bashing it. This weekend's been REALLY bad for me, so I got fed up and called him on his passive aggressive games... and I used some foul language... and got banned. End of story. For good.

by Icy Shake Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:26 pm

Somber wrote:Mostly due to a guy named Seraphem, who constantly bashes Horizons. Not a big deal in and of itself. I mean, 4chan has people who specialize in bashing it. The difference is every one of them has at least read some of it. Seraphem hasn't, and more importantly, has said that he will never read it... which is fine... except that he's always bashing it. This weekend's been REALLY bad for me, so I got fed up and called him on his passive aggressive games... and I used some foul language... and got banned. End of story. For good.

I'll put it this way: what I learn from it is that institutions that will tolerate immense quantities of passive aggression needn't react the same way to the (intended) aggressive aggressive response from the people the passive aggression was directed at. It's disappointing, but sometimes the trolls win when nothing in particular is provable as trolling, especially when there's TRUE BELIEF (both types, but seriously, the opening quotation and first two paragraphs describe the guy to a tee) involved as well.

What stunned me, though—what I seriously couldn't believe—was how it seems that he may have based a good portion of his hatred for the story on the entirely fallacious belief that the warning in chapter thirty three was added after the fact, not before publication.

by O. Hinds Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:33 pm

Sigh... Okay, I can kind of understand it, I guess, by comparing it to my own thoughts on Twilight (which I've not read and do not intend to), but I freely admit that I'm not qualified to critique the details and don't go around ending every speech with "and I also believe that Twilight is a bad series". At least read the thing if you're going to be intensely attacking it.
And you got permanently banned for one bit of foul language, while they had no problem allowing Seraphem's constant attacks? Am I being paranoid to think that this may have been a plot against you?

by Icy Shake Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:44 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Sigh... Okay, I can kind of understand it, I guess, by comparing it to my own thoughts on Twilight (which I've not read and do not intend to), but I freely admit that I'm not qualified to critique the details and don't go around ending every speech with "and I also believe that Twilight is a bad series". At least read the thing if you're going to be intensely attacking it.
And you got permanently banned for one bit of foul language, while they had no problem allowing Seraphem's constant attacks? Am I being paranoid to think that this may have been a plot against you?

Diversion on Twilight:

He's very good at portraying himself as a victim ("panic attacks," notably—which admittedly are a fine reason for him not to read the story, but are by no means a basis for claiming the story is bad as opposed to a bad one for him to read), and as the least sane man in the room, it often appears that he's being unfairly ganged up on when, frankly, the mere fact that he is part of a minority does not mean that he is being oppressed.

by WavemasterRyx Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:51 pm

*hugs Somber very gently* i'm sorry, sir...

by Guest Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:55 am

Good. TVTropes is a shitty website that tricks people into thinking they know how to talk about books. The most agonizing thing is when someone brings up "a trope" in a lit crit or creative writing class. Urkgh.

by Exodus Hero Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:03 am

swicked wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Good. TVTropes is a shitty website that tricks people into thinking they know how to talk about books. The most agonizing thing is when someone brings up "a trope" in a lit crit or creative writing class. Urkgh.
As an engineer, I took my last creative writing class long, long before TV Tropes was even imagined.
But I can imagine the annoyance.

-unrelated question- What kind of engineer are you?

by Silver136 Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:05 am

swicked wrote:
Exodus Hero wrote:
swicked wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Good. TVTropes is a shitty website that tricks people into thinking they know how to talk about books. The most agonizing thing is when someone brings up "a trope" in a lit crit or creative writing class. Urkgh.
As an engineer, I took my last creative writing class long, long before TV Tropes was even imagined.
But I can imagine the annoyance.
-unrelated question- What kind of engineer are you?
Degrees in computer engineering and electrical engineering. Starting mid-highschool everything was pretty much just math, math, math.

Also unrelated, but that's actually what I plan to do too! Any recommendations?

by Silver136 Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:26 am

swicked wrote:
Silver136 wrote:
swicked wrote:
Exodus Hero wrote:
swicked wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Good. TVTropes is a shitty website that tricks people into thinking they know how to talk about books. The most agonizing thing is when someone brings up "a trope" in a lit crit or creative writing class. Urkgh.
As an engineer, I took my last creative writing class long, long before TV Tropes was even imagined.
But I can imagine the annoyance.
-unrelated question- What kind of engineer are you?
Degrees in computer engineering and electrical engineering. Starting mid-highschool everything was pretty much just math, math, math.
Also unrelated, but that's actually what I plan to do too! Any recommendations?
...for what?

Computer engineering. I suppose advice would have been a better word.

by OneMoreDaySK Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:31 am

@cobalt
Care to give an example? I'm partially guilty of bringing tropes into a classroom setting, though it was for a video game analysis course, rather than traditional Eng Lit / Creative Writing. Also, what's a creative writing course like? Never managed to get into one.

@swicked
Nice. My college doesn't have an EE degree, unfortunately, so the closest I got to that was taking physics courses for fun. Stoped being fun when expected to memorized a couple dozen formulae and when to use each. How are those classes like? I might consider getting an EE degree eventually, after I'm done with Comp Sci.

Also... why is this even in this thread? I thought the chat thread existed for a reason. *shrugs*

by Guest Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:40 pm

OneMoreDaySK wrote:@cobalt
Care to give an example? I'm partially guilty of bringing tropes into a classroom setting, though it was for a video game analysis course, rather than traditional Eng Lit / Creative Writing. Also, what's a creative writing course like? Never managed to get into one.

@swicked
Nice. My college doesn't have an EE degree, unfortunately, so the closest I got to that was taking physics courses for fun. Stoped being fun when expected to memorized a couple dozen formulae and when to use each. How are those classes like? I might consider getting an EE degree eventually, after I'm done with Comp Sci.

Also... why is this even in this thread? I thought the chat thread existed for a reason. *shrugs*

The chat thread and this thread have gone their separate ways, a bit. I don't really mind, personally, as the chat thread was specifically done to shunt off ultraspammy discussions of the chain-pun sort. Anyway, the tropery usually doesn't happen in high level crit lit courses, at least, but in lower level ones you sometimes get someone going on and on about how Dickens' character X is a Mary Sue, and it's like - well, yeah, probably. So what? Go deeper. Notice the pattern that the middle-class passive woman is portrayed as a saint but the lower-class active woman is actively demonized and her sexuality linked with violence, stuff like that. The problem seems to be that people use them as shortcuts to nowhere - in place of explanation and critical thinking, they invoke a "trope," and then they don't do anything with it. It's one of those situations where I get embarrassed for being someone that uses the internet.

As for creative writing classes, they tend to be about as good as the students in them. Workshopping has had many criticisms leveled at it, mostly from people that had bad experiences with it, and IMO it requires a specific mindset - you need to be very open to criticism, but you also need to be able to tell when a classmate's advice just isn't worth taking. Ideally, you work with smart and talented students to read one another's work and give impressions and advice; this is valuable because you have a guaranteed audience, and because reading other novice writers' work can help you identify things you want to avoid doing in your own writing. It usually works best with smaller class sizes, so that students can really engage one another's minds during peer review and go in-depth about their thoughts on a piece. When it doesn't work so well, you sometimes end up with neophytes to genre fiction suddenly understanding the appeal of an imagined world, and deciding that the first chapter of an urban fantasy piece needs to lay out literally every single facet of how magic works in that world because they wanted to know more about it. Oh, and the other thing is that some really basic entry-level problems some young writers have are basically impossible to correct - having a very limited grasp of grammar, for instance, or having a boring voice, or letting their ideological views coat everything they write. Also, sometimes people worship Raymond Carver and want everyone's writing style to be like his. This is a pet peeve of mine, because when I try to emulate Raymond Carver I inevitably end up parodying Raymond Carver, because his style is hilarious and ripe for parody. Overall, though, I've found them to be quite good and helpful - if nothing else, they get you to be productive, and often they've opened me up to new styles.

by neoaustin Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:04 pm

...swicked i swear im going to stab you. that goddamn Celestia picture is bugging me. -_-

by Guest Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:08 pm

neoaustin wrote:...swicked i swear im going to stab you. that goddamn Celestia picture is bugging me. -_-

It changes, if you're referring to the one in the signature! Tres cool.

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