[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

BrentOGara wrote:But seriously, if any of you do make your own "Phantom Edit" of PH, don't tell me... I've got my own.

Overthepacific wrote:Oh, dude....

First, I chose the Spike emote in an effort to show that I wasn't serious... but now that I think about it... I am. You and I did not read the same PH, none of us did. Each and every one of us read a subtly (or not so subtly) different story. Every single one of us has in our minds a different Project Horizons, and not one of them is the same Project Horizons that Somber has in her head. We all hear a different voice in our head when the characters speak. We all see them differently. We all have our own private interpretation of their personality, and some of us even imagine we know why they think and act as they do... but every one of us is "wrong" from a purely objective "what does Somber believe/think/know" standpoint, and at the same time, ever one of us is absolutely right from the (far more meaningful) "what does Project Horizons mean to you" standpoint.

And just to be totally clear; no, I have not edited so much as a single character of Somber's work... but in my head, which is the only place that's real to me, (just as your own thoughts and emotions are the only things you will ever actually experience as 'real') I have an idea of what Project Horizons really means that is completely and inescapably my own, formed out of the fusion of my life experiences and beliefs and the words Somber wrote... just as you have yours.

BrentOGara wrote:
And just to be totally clear; no, I have not edited so much as a single character of Somber's work... but in my head, which is the only place that's real to me, (just as your own thoughts and emotions are the only things you will ever actually experience as 'real') I have an idea of what Project Horizons really means that is completely and inescapably my own, formed out of the fusion of my life experiences and beliefs and the words Somber wrote... just as you have yours.

I would just like to say that the literary theorist inside my head is performing a happy dance as I read this whole conversation.

Overthepacific wrote:

Kippershy wrote:
Sorry for the delay, wanted to take a new picture to show you since it seems to be fully healed now. (From what I can tell, though this was my first.)
Here:

I have to admit, it does look pretty badass.

Thank you. One of my favourite things about it is how low profile it is.

-As soon as I'm wearing even a short sleeved shirt, it's covered, meaning jobs have no issue with it.
-The ultimate reference of it is of course, ponies. However, because the base design being playing cards and a name - which makes sense given the pair at hand, that goes undetected by anyone who I don't want to know what it really means.
- I will always remember what it means and the reason I got it. I will always remember what strength Project Horizons gave to me in my darkest hours.

Honestly, it's perfect. It looks nice and clean, it's easy to conceal and it's not obvious, even less so than a cutie mark.
It's perfect to me.

Meleagridis wrote:

Overthepacific wrote:
Someone really telling me how or why things are put together better, in their opinion, in the second half of the story, rather than the first would be nice. But everyone seems to be skipping around that.

...I can't say that this is the same story I read so obsessively when I first came upon it. I agree with swicked that the steady influence taint had on Blackjack was great for the feeling of progress, and Coe Comh Ceov Miss Gaelic spoke true when she said that Flank was the high point of the story- the rest of it does pale in comparison. That's more a testament to the competence of that arc than any failings in the rest of the story.

But honestly, I just can't connect some of the recent stuff. When the edits and revisions came around, I read it all from the beginning and could connect everything mostly straightaway. With a few weeks between, however, the more recent chapters can get a bit more hazy. Perhaps it's time for a re-read... is what someone who can read quickly should be saying.

I know the feeling. I was hooked on the original first, but after a long break between chapters, I decided to take up PH, I think it must've been on ch 14.

I was hooked after chapter 1. That weekend I read the entirety of the story, and barely slept, just so I could get caught up faster. After that I religiously checked the comments and the eqd page to see if an update had come. When it did, that was all my day was the first chance at reading it I got. I'd spend hours reading, and rereading, just to see what happened and everything that I might've missed. I completely ignored new original FoE chapters that came out just to focus on PH.

When I first started feeling that exciting rush slip away was when 34 came out. I was gripped with anticipation just to see how somber would handle her death. It felt like she almost just got slapped with new powers that made everything easier, and left what was the old story behind. I still checked like a madman for updates, but not as much.

Recently, I just check whenever I see someone talking about it, or on the off chance I may think about it. Its depressing. Knowing that my favorite story ever has come down to boring me, and making it a chore to wade through chapters where nothing happens. I remember skipping over a memory orb section entirely, simply because I didnt feel it would ever be able to hold my attention. I stopped myself and asked "What the hell am I doing? This isnt how you treat your favorite story."

What tore me apart is investing so much into it, only to have it turn into what it is now. I finally had to speak up about it.

Shit... I'm starting to get wordy.

Won't lie that horizons has had problems, I still enjoy it immensely and that is all that really matters to me anyway, I still squee every time that a new chapter comes out.

I hope that Somber does do some revisions, nothing wrong with that. So long as he does it sooner rather than later.

As for post 33 chapters, to be completely honest this is when I saw a massive jump in quality or at least entertainment for me. I saw Somber taking bigger risks with chapters and concepts which has led to some faults (Namely the Styguis fiasco, Rainbow Glory, and now the Legate). I know I am in the minority here but I loved the entire hightower arc, my favorite being the Asylum chapter for it's sheer "Wtf am I reading the right story".

It's actually the earlier chapters that I had the least fun with to be honest, they felt too much like the original F:OE just darker and a little more realistic/gritty. It wasn't till just before flank that it started showing it's true colors.

I don't know, maybe I'm a crazy person, this is just how I feel.
Sorry for not putting this as a multiparagraph essay like the rest of you hooligans. Not as skilled at that as I like, always have been a better talker than writer.

So, seeing as my post got ignored, I'm going to say this again because it's perhaps the most important part.in its own right:

Somber isn't writing Project Horizons just to write Project Horizons, not alone.
He writes Project Horizons because an idea he had got positive feedback.
He writes Project Horizons because once he started, he began to attain a fanbase.
Somber writes Project Horizons for the fans as much as eh does for his own self confidence. Without us, he wouldn't write at all.

He doesn't want to write something we don't enjoy, he wants us to have a good time and legitimately enjoy every last word, every sentence and every page of his story.
He wants to do the best he possibly can for us.

Is it selfish that we ask so much of him? perhaps at times, yes, but that is the sacrifice he chooses to make for us.

As a writer myself, I know that if someone said to me I was doing something wrong and it went against my plans, I would initially be put off but I wouldn't ignore them completely.
If as many people were to be as vocal as has been, I would know something is wrong and I'm not doing the best I possibly can.

The very reason we're vocal at all is because we care so much.

You can can hold him too tightly and keep him on the one road he walks alone, falling over his own feet at times and not help him back up, you can simply ignore him and perhaps even laugh at him when he falls over and walks in circles.
Or you can guide him, show him which routes to take when he needs it and warn him when he's going down the ones which aren't to his full potential.


Yes this is Somber's story, but we want what's best for it and him as much as he does and he is just one man.
If he truly wants to make us as happy as can be, he'll have to make compromises at times and accept that his fans won't like every single idea he has.
That's life.

We should appreciate what he does for us, yes.
However, he should appreciate how many of us there are and what we do fro him, too. Even if it isn't as obvious as what he does, even if we don't put in the same amount of effort, we're still his driving force.

BrentOGara wrote:First, I chose the Spike emote in an effort to show that I wasn't serious... but now that I think about it... I am. You and I did not read the same PH, none of us did. Each and every one of us read a subtly (or not so subtly) different story. Every single one of us has in our minds a different Project Horizons, and not one of them is the same Project Horizons that Somber has in her head. We all hear a different voice in our head when the characters speak. We all see them differently. We all have our own private interpretation of their personality, and some of us even imagine we know why they think and act as they do... but every one of us is "wrong" from a purely objective "what does Somber believe/think/know" standpoint, and at the same time, ever one of us is absolutely right from the (far more meaningful) "what does Project Horizons mean to you" standpoint.

And just to be totally clear; no, I have not edited so much as a single character of Somber's work... but in my head, which is the only place that's real to me, (just as your own thoughts and emotions are the only things you will ever actually experience as 'real') I have an idea of what Project Horizons really means that is completely and inescapably my own, formed out of the fusion of my life experiences and beliefs and the words Somber wrote... just as you have yours.

We all have our own interpretations of actions or events, how the characters act and why they do it, but its centered around the story itself. That story is set how somber writes it, no amount of interpretation can change what sanguine did to the country side, no amount differing reason can change what happened on the seahorse.

We can think differently on why they did what they did, or the thought process behind it. But no action or setting is going to change just because we want it too. We cant control these characters, this isnt our story to tell, we are simply all listeners on this ride. What we take from it wont change the direction.

Overthepacific wrote:He lost a lot of readers after the recent chapter.

There's absolutely no evidence that that's true at all. Sure, there was a bunch of discussion about it, but I don't think anyone said that they're just going to stop reading it.

Hey Overthepacific, can you try and pinpoint why exactly chapters after 34 are boring to you now please? It really sucks that the story doesn't work for you, but we need to figure out why. Did the story loose momentum with you after BJ's death because she wasn't dying anymore? And remember, you're getting wordy because you emotionally care a great deal about this, so it's not exactly a bad thing to type too much.

Kippershy wrote:stuff

So give criticism but be nice about it? Is that what you mean in a nutshell?

Overthepacific wrote:He lost a lot of readers after the recent chapter.

Do we have stats? I am curious to know how many hits this story gets per chapter.

Derpmind wrote:

Overthepacific wrote:He lost a lot of readers after the recent chapter.

There's absolutely no evidence that that's true at all. Sure, there was a bunch of discussion about it, but I don't think anyone said that they're just going to stop reading it.

I was at /mlp/ before I came here. There are a lot of people that will tell you(not nicely) what they think of the story they are no longer reading. They put it in the hall of shame for fucks sake, which I do not approve of, but there's a reason for it.[/quote]

Derpmind wrote:Hey Overthepacific, can you try and pinpoint why exactly chapters after 34 are boring to you now please? It really sucks that the story doesn't work for you, but we need to figure out why. Did the story loose momentum with you after BJ's death because she wasn't dying anymore? And remember, you're getting wordy because you emotionally care a great deal about this, so it's not exactly a bad thing to type too much.

It was a combination of a lot of things I brought up. Blackjack being near invincible started to make the fight scenes less interesting for sure. Adding new characters for every different place they went into was frustrating. With like 4 different characters being added in hightower for example. I couldnt care for them, and it just brought attention away from the main group, when that nurse died, I really couldnt have cared less about it.

Lets see, the overly long memory orb scenes were a chore to drudge through just to get to a better part of the story.
After the Harbringers came into play, major factions just kinda disappeared. We havent seen a reaper or a steel ranger since this new arc started.

Things started to get ridiculous to counter Blackjacks psuedo invicibility. The massive ghoul at hightower? The invincible flame ghoul? Ghouls leaking through pipes? Invincible floating soul jars? This is all just hightower too.

They also started getting sidetracked majorly between what were supposed to be main missions. In the latest one I couldn't tell if they were wanting to head to shadowbolt tower, or if they wanted to take care of the hell hounds. It seemed to be all mashed together.

Right now I cant think of too much else, but if someone brought it up I'd surely remember.

And If I could say all of this without writing a damn essay I would, I just dont know how.

tylertoon2 wrote:

Kippershy wrote:stuff

So give criticism but be nice about it? Is that what you mean in a nutshell?

Overthepacific wrote:He lost a lot of readers after the recent chapter.

Do we have stats? I am curious to know how many hits this story gets per chapter.

Yes, that's about it if you're making it as simple as can be.
Too much criticism or too harshly and you'll only deflate his ego and make him not want to do anything again.
Too little criticism or too gently and he'll go off the rails when he needs you most without realising he does.
Like a child learning to ride a bike without stabilisers for the first time, we need to be there just far enough away to let him do his thing that makes us happy and proud of him but also be close enough to catch him before he really falls.

tylertoon2 wrote:

Overthepacific wrote:He lost a lot of readers after the recent chapter.

Do we have stats? I am curious to know how many hits this story gets per chapter.

I'm not sure. I'm taking this from the word of others I've spoken to who no longer wish to "ride the never ending train".

*whistling* Even this had an end, despite the title being completely contradictory. *goes back to whistling*

Spoiler:

StoneSlinger88 wrote:*whistling* Even this had an end, just ask him. *goes back to whistling*

Spoiler:

Their words, not mine.

I am sorry to have stressed you Kippershy, when I wrote my original post I was fairly sure that it was obvious I was pointing out the futility of whining about how PH "should" have been written, and the inherent arrogance and laziness of those who think they could do it better but make no effort to do so... hence my repeated insistence that they "do it".

Clearly, Jonathan Swift I am not... and I'm honestly sorry to see all the babies being eaten in response.

Kippershy wrote:
...Brent, I recommend you step back for a moment.

OK... *steps back*

Kippershy wrote:Every author is going to make mistakes at times. There's no way not to make a mistake unless you're writing a story so short there's literally no room for any. Even then, some would question the validity of such a story.

Certainly true, we're all human, all fallible, and we all, every one of us, make mistakes.

Kippershy wrote:It's true that Somber has written the longest running Fallout Equestria side-story with the highest wordcount. That is indisputable fact on both accounts. As to whether it's the most deeply compelling story is a matter of opinion and again with the complexity, some would argue one way while most would argue for your point being true.

but that isn't the point.

No matter how hard Somber works on this, there will always be issues someone has. Sometimes those issues are basic, with the very foundation of the story itself. Those views can almost always be ignored by the author - if a story setting isn't for that specific reader then you really don't need to change it unless they're the one paying you to write it.

When people have issues with certain aspects of the story though, that's when the author needs to hear about it.
I know for a fact that if it wasn't for some of the criticism I got on my own story, I wouldn't have changed my style. I would have continued on and failed to improve.
Instead, I got what I needed to hear and (eventually) reacted accordingly, taking what had been said to me to mind when I next worked on any specific part relative to it.

I agree completely with everything you've said here. It'd be great if more people understood this, especially authors. It's clear that David has heard the criticism, and has even chosen to re-write portions of the most recent chapter in response. It's also clear that a massive re-structuring of the story and removal of secondary characters is currently out of the question... even if that seems to be what the story 'needs'.

Kippershy wrote:David is no different.

You can cry to all high heavens about what a tremendous writer he is, and I agree, his skills as a writer are extremely high. However, that doesn't mean he isn't going to have issues in his writing what-so-ever.
In fact, the very fact he's such a skilled writer are what makes it all the worse when he does do something we see as poor or lacking in some way. We all want him to be producing the best stuff he can because when he's going good, he's downright amazing beyond belief.

A lot of people I know externally from here who read the story wish he would go back to his early days because that was when he was at his best. Back before there was more threads than anyone could reasonably be expected to keep track of in a single story - especially one set over something akin to two months.
It isn't about wanting to rewrite PH ourselves, it's about wanting Somber to see his mistakes, see what we think he did well and what he didn't do so well, get him to focus on what he does amazingly and continue with that - why? because that's what we enjoy the most and we know he's doing this for us as much as himself.

I am 100% on board with you here, the first two books were superb, and it'd be great if the story went back to that level of tight, fast paced, imaginative writing. No-one I know will dispute that there are too many LOST plot points and more than a few dropped balls in the most recent book. I do hope I didn't give the impression that I thought David was the God of Authors, he's not, and his most recent actions show that clearly. In fact, that's the point.

... if the writer actively refuses to accept input from the very people he has chosen to do that very job... What are you going to do about it?

"Whinge on about it" is the answer I saw played out over a dozen pages in this very thread. And that's what I'm upset about.

Kippershy wrote:I know how it feels to want to defend Somber and Project Horizons to the bitter end. Hell, I've got a fucking tattoo dedicated to it for all Project Horizons has done for me!

You are seriously hardcore, BTW

Kippershy wrote:
But as I've taken the step back and had the breather I needed to look back and analyze with a more critical eye, I've come to understand the crowd who feel disappointed that what they once loved is rare if not gone forever now.

Don't say things like that! I firmly believe that David is going though a (lingering) rough patch in his life, and given time he will work his way clear and everything will be Sunshine and Rainbows. I honestly don't know if I could remain a brony if PH crashes and burns (yes, that makes me willfully blind, irrational, obsessive and a little bit scary... but aren't we all?).

Kippershy wrote:Does that mean I too feel the same way? In some small respects, yes - as the times have changed for the story and myself, I miss things that used to happen and other things that didn't happen. Does that mean that I hate Project Horizons or want to hurt Somber?

Hell no, of course not.

You need to understand that if you mollycoddle Somber, if you hold him too tightly and suffocate him, he'll never grow.

I certainly don't want to suffocate him, and I don't think anyone (in their right mind) hates him... but maybe I'm the kind of person who mollycoddles instinctively. It is my opinion that the flood of sh*t about how bad the story's gone off the rails is probably just a little more 'suffocating' than gentle support and loving guidance would be. You don't throw stones at someone made of glass!

On the other hand, I do see that he's been less than enthusiastic about accepting guidance in the recent past, but I choose to believe that this is a temporary thing brought on by fatigue or depression (both of which I have plenty of experience with). I'm almost certainly over-invested emotionally in PH, and I'm afraid of what would happen (to my own emotional equilibrium) if it continues in this vein... or, heaven forbid, ends prematurely.

I'm sure that we are all concerned for David, and not just because he's producing work we enjoy, but because we value him as a person. It's equally clear that we have very different ideas about what we can do to 'help' him... and some of those ideas seem to be mutually exclusive. I'm not nearly arrogant enough to assume I'm right and everyone else is wrong, but I'm definitely human enough to believe that my beliefs are correct... so when I see people doing things that I know are not helpful, and may in fact be hurtful... I may very well have lashed out unthinkingly at what I perceived to be an attack on someone who I depend on.

... and isn't it a funny old world when the emotional stability of a writer of a fan-fic of a fan-fic of a children's cartoon is an element (however small) of a completely unrelated, unknown-to-them, full-grown adult's own emotional stability.

I hope it just goes to show how much we truly do love and value David's work, and indirectly; his mental health, his emotional welfare, and his very existence.

Overthepacific wrote:I was at /mlp/ before I came here. There are a lot of people that will tell you(not nicely) what they think of the story they are no longer reading. They put it in the hall of shame for fucks sake, which I do not approve of, but there's a reason for it.

/mlp/ on 4chan, yes? I kinda meant no-one here has said that they're going to stop reading the story. On these forums people are usually honest and civil. On 4chan, however, I find it hard to take almost anyone's opinion seriously. Most people in places like 4chan love to hate things, and will outright lie whenever they want to. In general 'I'm never reading this again' just isn't a claim that I would take seriously in and of itself anyways. Remember all the big complaints that because of Alicorn Twilight, it was time to leave the fandom? It seems ridiculous that if someone really did read all chapters up till now, they're not going to read the next chapter. What seems much more plausible is that some readers are big, noisy complainers, and that some of the complainers probably haven't even read most of PH but just like to complain about it.

So I hear there's a demand for some "yes" or "no" responses to the proposition that lots of things stopped working after Chapter 33. I say "no", or at least that there hasn't been, in my opinion, a marked decline that can't be explained by Somber setting himself up against a harder task than he faced earlier.

Rant. Sorry.:

Criminy. Ever think of what Somber might write after this, with all the lessons learned?
Or I suppose the Author may take a break or something sensible I guess. Still, the thought of APH (After Project Horizons) is just something strange to me... I'd have so much extra time on my hands and no clue what to do with it unless Somber starts something else.

If you can catch this in the great flood of recent posts, Somber, I've got a question: Say you finish Horizons. What would be next?

Overthepacific wrote:
Shit... I'm starting to get wordy.

Good. This place was starting to get real quiet before you and Snipehamster showed up. One can say what they like of Vitiosus' impact on the story, he seems to have been a boon for the comment thread (which is half the fun of Horizons).

Thats really stereotyping people because of the place they decide to discuss FAOE on. People there don´t complain because they only have read a part of PH, they complain BECAUSE they have read all of it, since such a long time, and are disappointed in the direction it took. If they really read only a few chapters they wouldn´t give a flying fuck.

Also "The Ride never ends" reefers to Mr. Bones Wild Ride:
http://chanarchive.org/4chan/v/40679

Derpmind wrote:

Overthepacific wrote:I was at /mlp/ before I came here. There are a lot of people that will tell you(not nicely) what they think of the story they are no longer reading. They put it in the hall of shame for fucks sake, which I do not approve of, but there's a reason for it.

/mlp/ on 4chan, yes? I kinda meant no-one here has said that they're going to stop reading the story. On these forums people are usually honest and civil. On 4chan, however, I find it hard to take almost anyone's opinion seriously. Most people in places like 4chan love to hate things, and will outright lie whenever they want to. In general 'I'm never reading this again' just isn't a claim that I would take seriously in and of itself anyways. Remember all the big complaints that because of Alicorn Twilight, it was time to leave the fandom? It seems ridiculous that if someone really did read all chapters up till now, they're not going to read the next chapter. What seems much more plausible is that some readers are big, noisy complainers, and that some of the complainers probably haven't even read most of PH but just like to complain about it.

Sometimes the truth hurts. In their nasty vile way of saying things, they can tell the truth. It may not seem like theyre being reasonable, but for every person that voices their opinion, there are at least three more who share it but wont say anything. I wouldnt discredit all of those people and brush it off as ALL of them playing the devils advocate.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people did leave the fandom over that honeestly. I didn't really like it, because that's something you end a series with, not pull out in the middle of it. There are so many ways it could go wrong. But its yet to be seen anyway.

I canalso understand some not continuing this story at all. With the boredom I feel when reading through sometimes, I honestly just want to stop and just believe the story ends at 33. But I wont. Ill keep reading and try to help. That doesnt go the same for many people who share the former opinion.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:I would just like to say that the literary theorist inside my head is performing a happy dance as I read this whole conversation.

I'm glad that someone is enjoying it! It takes so long to learn enough cognitive science and psychology to really get the theory of mind and the ultimate subjectivity of experience, plus the added layers of inference and assumption inherent in language, plus the difficulties of developing and transmitting the subjective experiences of wholly fictional characters via such language... you can't really explain it in a forum post, you have to just hope that someone out there knows enough of what you know, and interprets it in a way similar enough to your own internal reality that they appreciate what you're trying to say.

Honestly, it's a miracle anyone understands anyone else (of course, technically we do not actually understand each other, we just imagine we do).

BrentOGara wrote:On the other hand, I do see that he's been less than enthusiastic about accepting guidance in the recent past, but I choose to believe that this is a temporary thing brought on by fatigue or depression (both of which I have plenty of experience with).

It only seems that way out here. We still don't know how things go on in the editing room, and the reason Somber refused to make the changes that Snipehamster was talking about is because that would require stopping writing new stuff and doing heavy changes to previous chapters. Also, half of Snipehamster's discussion was that removing elements or characters from the story might be beneficial, which most people here strongly disagreed with.

On another note, BrentOGara, you remind me very strongly of a person under a different username. If you are that person, then you know me; I used to comment often on your stories. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, that's fine and I apologize for being creepy, but if you are I'd like to talk to you privately a little please.

BrentOGara wrote:

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:I would just like to say that the literary theorist inside my head is performing a happy dance as I read this whole conversation.

I'm glad that someone is enjoying it! It takes so long to learn enough cognitive science and psychology to really get the theory of mind and the ultimate subjectivity of experience, plus the added layers of inference and assumption inherent in language, plus the difficulties of developing and transmitting the subjective experiences of wholly fictional characters via such language... you can't really explain it in a forum post, you have to just hope that someone out there knows enough of what you know, and interprets it in a way similar enough to your own internal reality that they appreciate what you're trying to say.

Honestly, it's a miracle anyone understands anyone else (of course, technically we do not actually understand each other, we just imagine we do).

It's not that complicated to understand that stuff, right? It's totally intuitive! (It was for me.)

BTW, I'm of the theory that all intelligent beings are totally psychic. The entire point of language is that it's a more efficient means to read each other's minds. It's just that the psychic stuff's hard to pin down without statisticians breaking into tears at how overcomplicated and fraught with false positives it is.

I go away for a week and the thread is on fire again. You guys need to slow down; I can't keep up with this post rate. Someone not actively at someone else's throat care to summarise what's going on? What's with Snipe and no longer being an editor? What's the current stability of everyone here?

Icy Shake wrote:So I hear there's a demand for some "yes" or "no" responses to the proposition that lots of things stopped working after Chapter 33. I say "no", or at least that there hasn't been, in my opinion, a marked decline that can't be explained by Somber setting himself up against a harder task than he faced earlier.

Rant. Sorry.:

I'm going to try to respond to this as best I can reading at this time of night.

The legate, we've talked so much about that. I think he is simply absurd, invincibility and all of these nonsensical powers are getting out of line and they don't have a place in this fic. That was not a solid fight scene. It was Blackjack trying her hand at Dragonball Z. But I haven't read the revision yet.

DISCORD, that was on a cop out level so high I repressed it. They center his power around project chimera, then once he was free, did they have to deal with the god of chaos roaming the wastes? No. Did they have to somehow convince discord to live peacefully with his new situation? No. He ended up trapped under a pile of rubble. Avoiding that possibility any possibility of anything interesting entirely. If that is what was going to happen, they shouldve never actually freed him.

As much as I like FMA stronghoof was simply some anime crossover that took the place of an origional character that couldve served a much better purpose. I watch FMA to watch it. And I read PH to read it, Putting FMA into the setting of an already crossover fic is unnecessary, there's already a crossover fic like that. But it was overall just a minor complaint really.

Theres a lot going on, but nothing really seems to be happening, the characters go off on unnecessary arcs that do not take 5 chapters to get resolved. The styguis arc for one. BlackJack did not need to spend that much time away from her goal simply because she didnt want to sleep, or that she was stressed. In the end all it did was cure her fear of stallions. Which did not need all of that to flesh out at all.

But you are entitled to your opinion, and I'm not going to try to take that away from you.

The Holy Tuna wrote:I go away for a week and the thread is on fire again. You guys need to slow down; I can't keep up with this post rate. Someone not actively at someone else's throat care to summarise what's going on? What's with Snipe and no longer being an editor? What's the current stability of everyone here?

Where has your avatar been all my life? I love it.

Snipe left for reasons of internal conflict with somber about revising the story.

I just came here and decided to voice my opinion of the slipping quality of the story. I suppose were debating that right now.

Meleagridis wrote:

Overthepacific wrote:
Shit... I'm starting to get wordy.

Good. This place was starting to get real quiet before you and Snipehamster showed up. One can say what they like of Vitiosus' impact on the story, he seems to have been a boon for the comment thread (which is half the fun of Horizons).

Glad I'm good for that, I suppose.

Overthepacific wrote:Where has your avatar been all my life? I love it.

Sitting as my deviantArt profile picture. It started as a joke about cross-breeding during a TF2 game. A shoddy photoshop later, and best pone is combined with my alias in the most delightfully horrifying manner.

Apparently this post was no good... is it possible to delete your own posts?

BrentOGara wrote:

Overthepacific wrote:We all have our own interpretations of actions or events, how the characters act and why they do it, but its centered around the story itself. That story is set how somber writes it, no amount of interpretation can change what sanguine did to the country side, no amount differing reason can change what happened on the seahorse.

We can think differently on why they did what they did, or the thought process behind it. But no action or setting is going to change just because we want it too. We cant control these characters, this isnt our story to tell, we are simply all listeners on this ride. What we take from it wont change the direction.

I agree with most of your points, but this is "our story to tell"... the story we read is not the story Somber has written, and it's not the story any other person reads either. We all read our own story, regardless of the fact that the words are the same. Also, "What we take from it wont change the direction" is just wrong to me. What we take from it is the direction.

Even in the story itself Sanguine and Blackjack had totally different views on what they were doing. While you can argue that the actions they took had an objective reality, that's totally inconsequential compared to their subjective understanding of why they took those action.

Sanguine is a hero. He's a loving father desperately trying to right the wrongs he committed in his former life, his only thought is for the safety of his family. The key he needs to save them (and he doesn't even want to keep it, just use it one time) is in the hands of a brainless thug known for brutal drunken rampages and keeping company with psychopaths and murderers. She stole the key in the first place, she can't be reasoned with, regularly kills his helpers in horrific ways, abandons her own people to destruction, and would like nothing more than to destroy him... and for no reason at all except her own petty selfishness and ingnorance! He's fighting multiple antagonists on every front, his supposed friends are all suspect, he's being threatened by a vicious AI and an insane hive-mind both bent on destroying all of Equestria, and his only truly loyal ally is a crazy filly who has some kind of semi-incestuous fixation on him. No matter how much it sickens him to do what he does, he has no other reasonable choices... fate has given him his hand to play, and play he must.

Look at the previous paragraph... everything there is in the book, it's all there in black and white (or whatever colors you've set you browser to), every word is directly supported by what Somber has written... but are you really prepared to tell me that this is the story you read???

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What?

Look, all this philosophical stuff isnt going to take away from the fact that whichever way we think things happen isn't going to change what actually happened. Only why we thought it happened. Regardless of what anyone thinks, it still happened the way it happened, and it really isnt going to change much in terms of the actual story. Its going to end however Somber wants it to end, our input or no.

As much as I'd love to mentally change things around with stories(Like the ending to Background pony) it isn't going to happen.