Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by Harmony Ltd. Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Except that "Bolos" are 100% AIs from the ground up.

But other than that, yeah, that could be an interesting analogy. Though I have only ever read Bolos fanfictions, never any of the books involving them.

by Ketchup Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:55 pm

I opened up TV Tropes to waste a little time and it popped into my head because someone had linked it's TV Tropes page. That would probably be the only reason I remember it at all.
I wish my memory was more consistent.

by Kippershy Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:59 pm

RoboRed wrote:IIRC, I also remember him or someone else saying they really didn't like the concept of Bolos.

If you mean Somber, he loved Bolos.

by Cptadder Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:59 pm

RoboRed wrote:IIRC, I also remember him or someone else saying they really didn't like the concept of Bolos.

Might have been me the first time tanks were mentioned as I hate Bolos as they violate all the rules of what makes a good tank in the modern era. Something like the SheVa from Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata I tolerate because it makes sense, the SheVa's are giant tanks because their entire existence is to make a sixteen inch cannon that fires Anti-matter warheads land mobile. Fine you build a weapon system that big because your making an anti-ship gun that needs to be able to dodge fire from orbit and hide.

But the Bolos are silly, something as big and as armored as that would simply be engaged from orbit. Later series Bolos FLY at which point I ask why is this a ground vehicle to begin with and not a Starship that happens to be able to enter ATMO.

by WovenTales Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:17 pm

I just now finished the chapter (I've been more or less offline for a few days) and I want to say that—while it never stopped being good—Project Horizons is back to the masterpiece it was.

A few random thoughts (don't have time to do a running commentary):

Blackjack (subconsciously?) adopting Psalm's line is scary.
Blackjack using "Ante up" is surprisingly...heartwarming doesn't quite fit.
"Fight. Kill. Run. Move. Fight . Reload." has an extra space at "Fight ."
"Tanks should get a special EFS. bar!" probably doesn't need the period.

by CannonFodder Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:57 pm

WovenTales wrote:

Blackjack (subconsciously?) adopting Psalm's line is scary.

If Psalm's spirit is in Blackjack then that could explain why she has yet to become completely postal. Psalm was obsessed with seeking redemption, and while I don't think having a bit of Psalm inside of Blackjack can account for all of how Blackjack's personality, Psalm's obsession with redemption would keep Blackjack from just mowing down every last enemy without remorse.

by Snipehamster Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:41 pm

*Emerges from obscurity to post a recycled joke*

Spoiler:

http://hobbes-maxwell.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5mdkjq

by Caoimhe Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:43 pm

Woah, post a spoiler warning before you reveal Blackjack's final form!

by Stringtheory Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:45 pm

Caoimhe wrote:Woah, post a spoiler warning before you reveal Blackjack's final form!

but what's its new power?

by SilentCarto Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Challenge (to answer in the chat thread 'cause this is getting off-topic) :
Find me a moment in the story where the following track would be appropriate => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqZb7hY1S0

I'd say BJ at Spike's Cave. Spike

Harmony Ltd. wrote:And a last one just to finish in beauty :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJtwEpQe6w0

Schala's Theme makes me think of Twilight's Athenaeum.

Snipehamster wrote:*Emerges from obscurity to post a recycled joke*
Spoiler:
http://hobbes-maxwell.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5mdkjq

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 3 Mlfw693_small

by hawkeye92 Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:25 pm

Reading Somber's plans for the near future, I can't say I'm not excited. Blackjack saving thunderhead from the insanity of Operation Cauterize then saving the Enclave from Lighthooves. Because Security Saves Ponies.

Warning, the following incoherent ramble might not make any sense.

It has the potential to be seriously amazingly good. The Enclave wasn't really explored very well as to it's motivations in the original FoE. Realistically they're fighting to save their entire civilisation from Armageddon- all it takes is one pony to know how to operate the SPP and override it from somewhere then it's Goodnight Vienna. Under similar threats I can imagine a lot of places going to extreme measures to save themselves. Not that I condone it, but I understand where they're coming from.
There's also the problem that without the Gardens firing off (which they didn't even know about), they couldn't actually save the wasteland anyway. Clear the skies and most ponies in the wasteland are dead from cancer or radiation poisoning in a decade. Because the radiation is magical persistent stuff it's all still there in the soil ready to be concentrated by plants they're going to grow for crops. A couple of islands in the pacific had to be abandoned because all of their crops they were growing were bringing up fallout from atomic testing irl.

More general problems I had with the Enclave was the amount of crazy stuff wheeled out against them. Giant cyborg dragon, fine. Armour ignoring bullets- only in extremely limited quantities. Lion and the Mouse- there to do little else but board ships and wipe them inside out, kill anyone using radios while being pretty much unstoppable in the process unless the ship self destructs around him. That was a few steps too far off the crazy scale. How he managed to get aboard the flagship I have no idea. Thought such a venture would be like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Q6164hbmI (couldn't find a higher quality)

A hard fought battle with every gun battery on the ground trading blows with the fleet and careful positioning on the defenders' part would have been a lot more satisfying.

Then even more general storytelling problems was with the power scaling of power armour. Started off hard, then more and more stuff got thrown in that could counter it until it's really just aesthetics and doesn't mean anything any more. This hasn't happened yet with Horizons but what I have noticed is how AM rifles are becoming more common and less effective.
Blackjack takes a direct hit and barely notices in the latest chapter and the contrabass on it's side makes for effective cover- Unless it's somehow anchored to the floor if an AM round hit it I'm fairly sure the whole thing would be pushed back with enough force to shatter bones.

As they stand AM rifles seem like the shouldn't be able to hurt power armour unless at point blank range or they clip a joint/other weak point.

by SilentCarto Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:14 pm

hawkeye92 wrote:Blackjack takes a direct hit and barely notices in the latest chapter and the contrabass on it's side makes for effective cover- Unless it's somehow anchored to the floor if an AM round hit it I'm fairly sure the whole thing would be pushed back with enough force to shatter bones.

Well, BJ is a pain-blocked cyborg now... one might expect her to take remarkable amounts of damage.

Regarding Octavia, I don't think it's as bad as you think. The bullet can't deliver more momentum than the gun imparts to the shooter, and a contrabass weighs roughly the same amount as an AMR (10 kg for a typical bass, 13 kg for the Hecate II that the Fallout AMR is styled after) so the foals would be feeling roughly the same kick that the gunner felt when he fired. And as he still has a functional shoulder...

by Mech Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:22 pm

That new chapter spawned quite a few doodles.

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 3 Fear_the_dawn_by_mistermech-d5me47d

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 3 Fear_the_dawn_by_mistermech-d5me47d

by Mech Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:30 pm

Mother/Daughter beat down!

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 3 Mother_daughter_battlemode_by_mistermech-d5me5sw

And this.... Please, please forgive me..

[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 3 Deustank_by_mistermech-d5me6bf

by Vergil Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:30 pm

Mech wrote:That new chapter spawned quite a few doodles.

I am ok with this.

by O. Hinds Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:32 pm

WovenTales wrote:I just now finished the chapter (I've been more or less offline for a few days) and I want to say that—while it never stopped being good—Project Horizons is back to the masterpiece it was.

A few random thoughts (don't have time to do a running commentary):
Blackjack (subconsciously?) adopting Psalm's line is scary.
Blackjack using "Ante up" is surprisingly...heartwarming doesn't quite fit.
"Fight. Kill. Run. Move. Fight . Reload." has an extra space at "Fight ."
"Tanks should get a special EFS. bar!" probably doesn't need the period.

Ah, thank you.

by SilentCarto Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:41 pm

Mech wrote:That new chapter spawned quite a few doodles.

CyberDawn: Yikes. That's *almost* as terrifying as it looked in my head. I think her limbs need to stretch a little bit once they're unconfined by her original skin, since the skin apparently had to rip to allow for the change.

Sekashi and Majina: Sekashi looks pretty frightening with that mask on, though that may just be the nature of it being a sketch so its coloration doesn't stand out as obviously artificial. Still, yikes. Majina is adorable, though it kinda looks like she's playing a flute to me.

Deus: I forgive you, and I'm giggling my fool head off. Applebloom

by FeatherDust Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:41 pm

So, opinions:
Does Dawn still exist inside that cyber-monstrosity, or did the remainder of her brain get burned out along with the rest of her flesh? I'm thinking that last sad look that got consumed by the green light was Dawn dying...

by Ironmonger Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:51 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
Actually, getting close to a tank is a soldier's best chance. In close, the tank can't bring its guns to bear and the soldier can deploy weapons capable of disabling the tank. Deus has automated machine guns that can sweep his own deck, but most tanks can't do that; the crew has to leave the safety of the interior to deal with boarders.

What I meant was getting in close range is dangerous. Point-blank range is a different story, only thing I can think of that would be a problem then is getting run over. I can't spot gaps in my arguments for some reason.

by 222222 Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:57 pm

I think Dawn is gone, either her mind just utterly destroyed and replaced by machines, or so utterly twisted and corrupted she cannot possibly be considered a pony anymore. I don't think we'll ever be seeing the real Dawn again, if we ever even saw the real Dawn in the first place.

by **RoboRed** Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:58 pm

@Cyber-dawn: That's almost exactly how I imagined her, except at that point, there were no more defining features to her eyes - there were just glowing orbs of green.

@Majina w/blowgun: *squeee* So cuuuute!!

@Deus-tank: I lol'd.

by CannonFodder Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:03 pm

FeatherDust wrote:So, opinions:
Does Dawn still exist inside that cyber-monstrosity, or did the remainder of her brain get burned out along with the rest of her flesh? I'm thinking that last sad look that got consumed by the green light was Dawn dying...

Nah, I think Dawn's brain is still inside the monstrosity. The last sad look was probably her finally realizing that she was a failure who would kill children and her mind just snapping like a twig realizing that her entire life's work was a complete failure and everything she has done has been a complete failure.

Like watching someone's mind just break all at once in real time.

by FeatherDust Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:06 am

CannonFodder wrote:
FeatherDust wrote:So, opinions:
Does Dawn still exist inside that cyber-monstrosity, or did the remainder of her brain get burned out along with the rest of her flesh? I'm thinking that last sad look that got consumed by the green light was Dawn dying...
Nah, I think Dawn's brain is still inside the monstrosity. The last sad look was probably her finally realizing that she was a failure who would kill children and her mind just snapping like a twig realizing that her entire life's work was a complete failure and everything she has done has been a complete failure.

Like watching someone's mind just break all at once in real time.

I don't think that was her mind snapping. That look was the last of Dawn before Cogitum took over -- Dawn had a moment of weakness and that cannot be allowed. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

The question is whether Dawn is still "alive" (for whatever value of alive applies in this case) and under the machine's control, or if she had a killswitch just like Steel Rain, only in her case it destroys her brain completely so that the machine her body has become is fully under Cogitum's command.

Well, at least this answers the question about the "waffle" scars. Cogitum flayed her to insert subdermal armor all over her body and then put the skin back...

by CannonFodder Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:17 am

FeatherDust wrote:I don't think that was her mind snapping. That look was the last of Dawn before Cogitum took over -- Dawn had a moment of weakness and that cannot be allowed. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

The question is whether Dawn is still "alive" (for whatever value of alive applies in this case) and under the machine's control, or if she had a killswitch just like Steel Rain, only in her case it destroys her brain completely so that the machine her body has become is fully under Cogitum's command.

Well, at least this answers the question about the "waffle" scars. Cogitum flayed her to insert subdermal armor all over her body and then put the skin back...

Probably enough of Dawn is left for her to still be the prophet, but not enough to resist cognitum any more.

by Caoimhe Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:21 am

If that truly is what has become of her, I hope Dawn does NOT get a last minute near death turn-to-good revelation, as it's cliched. Though I hope there is some redemption. Parental death is sad. :(

by SilentCarto Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:28 am

FeatherDust wrote:So, opinions:
Does Dawn still exist inside that cyber-monstrosity, or did the remainder of her brain get burned out along with the rest of her flesh? I'm thinking that last sad look that got consumed by the green light was Dawn dying...

I know I'm in the minority, but I think Dawn is still Dawn. The "no more weakness" line makes me think she is and was in complete control of her faculties. It sounded a lot like something BJ would say in shaking herself from a moment of temptation, really.

I mean, look at what she's done already: trade one life for the safety and prosperity of the Wasteland? Sure. A town full of foals? Yes. She's willing to sacrifice almost anything to attain what she's been seeking her whole life. Striker put himself between her and her lifelong goal. It's the same choice Blackjack faced in the chapel at the beginning of the chapter. Set aside your quest and just make yourself happy. Give up helping others to find peace, and you can live in peace for yourself. Dawn already accepted that deal once, and she couldn't hold to it. She had to push the Enclave to help, and she had to run for her life because of it. I don't believe that Cog was involved at all here. The way I read it, Dawn herself realized that she was about to take Striker up on his offer, again, and so she... removed... the source of the temptation. She instantly regretted it, but couldn't undo what was done.

If Dawn were gone and Cog were in charge, I don't think she'd have flown off screaming like that. She would have gone straight for EC-1101 now that her invincible battle form was revealed.

by Ketchup Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:31 am

I think that Dawn was Dawn until Sky Striker created a source of doubt in her. Then Cogs took over and destroyed what was left of her when she wavered. No evidence, but those are my thoughts.

by OneMoreDaySK Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:54 am

Eh, methinks Dawn is slowly going crazy via Cogs, like what Sigma was doing to Maine in the RvB series. That "No more weaknesses" thing seems to only be a bit of assuming direct control by Cogs, just to push her over the edge.

by **RoboRed** Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:57 am

Kippershy wrote:
If you mean Somber, he loved Bolos.

Cptadder wrote:
Might have been me the first time tanks were mentioned as I hate Bolos as they violate all the rules of what makes a good tank in the modern era.

Well, like I said, "IIRC". Guess I was wrong.

by WavemasterRyx Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:51 am

I'm sorry this took so long. Thank you again for writing PH, Somber, I really do hope you feel better soon. And thank you to the editing staff for their hard work.

Chapter 52 Commentary:

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