[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:
Anyroad, ...

:what: ... I like it.

SilentCarto wrote:Even the Robomination was capable of conversation to some extent. "YOU DARE!" and all that, when she pulled Folly on it. The Cyberdaemon is smart in some ways, like I said before. It's not simply a raging bull; it's just alien. It doesn't understand mortals at all.

The assembled mass in the tunnels, yes? You do not believe that was the Cyberdaemon?
Never mind, just understood what you said here. I think. I'm still not convinced, though. The only reason an insane mind doesn't beat his head on a wall four million times is because his brain will eventually turn to mush. When you have an indefinite lifespan and your body is the Hoofington security system, there isn't much to stop you.

On an only vaguely related note, do we have any evidence that the robot army at Hippocratic was Cybie? Other than sharing his favourite tactics, I mean.

SilentCarto wrote:
The Cyberdaemon, though, doesn't seem to react to resistance like a mortal at all. There's a difference between bulling through resistance because you know you can do it, and beating your head against a wall four million times. Even an insane pony is still a pony at its core.

Ah, but I think a key part of Swicked's post was the "augemntation" bit - because if the cyberdaemon's got completely different "hardware" (if you'll pardon the metaphor) than the pony it used to be, then that alien-ness you see could be due to having existed for an extended period in a radically different form. (I hope I'm explaining this right)

@Mel
I forget where I found that word, but I liked it and now it slips in sometimes! :)

Meleagridis wrote:On an only vaguely related note, do we have any evidence that the robot army at Hippocratic was Cybie? Other than sharing his favourite tactics, I mean.

Nope!
Well... nothing direct. The robot army appeared while Psycho was trying to use EC-1101, which is circumstantial but suggestive.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Ah, but I think a key part of Swicked's post was the "augemntation" bit - because if the cyberdaemon's got completely different "hardware" (if you'll pardon the metaphor) than the pony it used to be, then that alien-ness you see could be due to having existed for an extended period in a radically different form. (I hope I'm explaining this right)

You might be right, but I look at the example of Deus -- almost entirely cyberized, but his needs are still recognizably (excuse the expression) human. I know he was hovering at .01 Essence, if you will, and they referred to other test subjects going insane when augmented beyond that point, but even someone as far gone as the Think Tank members in OWB still thinks in human patterns.

SilentCarto wrote:
You might be right, but I look at the example of Deus -- almost entirely cyberized, but his needs are still recognizably (excuse the expression) human. I know he was hovering at .01 Essence, if you will, and they referred to other test subjects going insane when augmented beyond that point, but even someone as far gone as the Think Tank members in OWB still thinks in human patterns.

Ooh, maybe I was thinking along different terms than you - I was thinking more along the lines of the cyberdaemon as being wholly mechanical/electronic, including the brain. Sort of like the Applebot (probably), only also connected to thousands of different systems. Maybe the transfer was also more traumatic, or maybe the original pony was less stable. In any case, existing as an entity that is utterly different from a pony could easily change a mind into something completely alien, especially given that two centuries have passed since it last was "normal." Combine that with it probably having been alone, or interacting with electronic systems only, for a very long time after the balefire fell (the exception being some ghouls, I suppose), and you've got the perfect environment for something completely different. (Also, technically I mean OWB wasn't actually realistic so we shouldn't be using it as evidence but I see your point)

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Ooh, maybe I was thinking along different terms than you - I was thinking more along the lines of the cyberdaemon as being wholly mechanical/electronic, including the brain. Sort of like the Applebot (probably), only also connected to thousands of different systems. Maybe the transfer was also more traumatic, or maybe the original pony was less stable. In any case, existing as an entity that is utterly different from a pony could easily change a mind into something completely alien, especially given that two centuries have passed since it last was "normal." Combine that with it probably having been alone, or interacting with electronic systems only, for a very long time after the balefire fell (the exception being some ghouls, I suppose), and you've got the perfect environment for something completely different. (Also, technically I mean OWB wasn't actually realistic so we shouldn't be using it as evidence but I see your point)

Well, if you want to propose that it's a machine imprinted with a pony personality, I suppose that might be the case. Like the soulless god-machine Cottage Cheese tried to turn himself into. We don't really know enough to do more than speculate at the moment. I still get an impression that it's more Skynet than Applebot, though.

SilentCarto wrote: even someone as far gone as the Think Tank members in OWB still thinks in human patterns.

So do a good chunk of the robots. Even unintentionally. Fallout already leant a little in the direction of more anthropomorphic mentality (and this is after the crackdown on intelligent deathclaws and the like). Throw in mules and diamond dogs and dragons oh my, and you get a world where tragic, relatable minds are not at all uncommon in completely inhuman (inequine?) things.

It doesn't mean Cybie can't be utterly alien, it just makes it harder to swallow. Easier to believe he was a mind turned into this thing.

Meleagridis wrote:

SilentCarto wrote: even someone as far gone as the Think Tank members in OWB still thinks in human patterns.

So do a good chunk of the robots. Even unintentionally. Fallout already leant a little in the direction of more anthropomorphic mentality (and this is after the crackdown on intelligent deathclaws and the like). Throw in mules and diamond dogs and dragons oh my, and you get a world where tragic, relatable minds are not at all uncommon in completely inhuman (inequine?) things.

It doesn't mean Cybie can't be utterly alien, it just makes it harder to swallow. Easier to believe he was a mind turned into this thing.

Inb4 anyone else calls it that Iron Will is the cyberdaemon.

I actually can see it now, Iron Will is the cyberdaemon.

Intrusive with brute force - CUT IN LINE? I'LL TAKE WHAT'S MINE.
Uses simple but ineffectual ploys (Flash Ind.) - GET IN MY WAY? I'LL MAKE YOU PAY!

Seriously though - I know with 99.0% certainty that it isn't Iron Will - but the sheer hilarity of imagining it is makes it worth saying.
That and if it does turn out to be him, I would laugh my ass off and say: LOL-WTF-BBQ, R U SHUR? SHUR I'M SHUR! KENT B! FUCK YOU! OKAI!

SilentCarto wrote:

Derpmind wrote:Is there any reason that Unicorn magic has to break thermodynamics? Whatever extra weird-physics that Equestria might run on that enables 'magic,' why can't the simple chemical energy from eating food be expended in using Unicorn spells? Sure, the spells themselves may be using energy in exotic ways, but there's no reason that the math can't (mostly) work out even, right?

Only if unicorns eat enough calories to fuel a fighter jet. Imagine how much energy it would cost to lift a multi-ton bear against gravity for a couple minutes on end!

Speaking of fighter jets, how do pegasi fly? Not only that, but how can they reach speeds approaching or even exceeding supersonic? Magic definitely does not operate on our known physics, but that's no reason we can't come up with (or just be lazy and infer the existence of) silly physics that doesn't allow things like perpetual motion machines or energy from literally nowhere. Say, leviation is a partially a spell that shifts the object out of phase with gravity, and the more mass is out of phase the more constant effort must be expended. Pegasi are capable of manipulating gasses and some energies like light and electricity, but the mechanics of how exactly is because magic. I don't know, I'm just fudging it. Whatevers.

Derpmind wrote:Speaking of fighter jets, how do pegasi fly? Not only that, but how can they reach speeds approaching or even exceeding supersonic? Magic definitely does not operate on our known physics, but that's no reason we can't come up with (or just be lazy and infer the existence of) silly physics that doesn't allow things like perpetual motion machines or energy from literally nowhere. Say, leviation is a partially a spell that shifts the object out of phase with gravity, and the more mass is out of phase the more constant effort must be expended. Pegasi are capable of manipulating gasses and some energies like light and electricity, but the mechanics of how exactly is because magic. I don't know, I'm just fudging it. Whatevers.

"Whatevers" is right. In addition to something that looks a lot like mass-lightening, pegasi can apparently choose how much air they 'drag' with them as they fly. That seems to be what 'wingpower' actually measures, given that Dash doesn't almost blow away everyone in the area when she flies fast. Hurricane Fluttershy gave me some interesting theories about weather working and pony cooperation in general.

SilentCarto wrote:

Meleagridis wrote:Much of this seems to rely on Cybie being unable to see a path involving more than brute force, and is incapable of learning any other method. How do you reconcile its poorly thought out but admittedly subversive tactics at Flash Industries? Blackjack was there, it had the power to rip her apart. It chose to try and fool her.

I'm not so sure. Terms like 'deception' are an organic mindset. This was the first time the Cyberdaemon reacted to the name "Goldenblood". Perhaps it thought that, since she asked for him, Goldie was her commander, or had root access, to use computer terms -- that she would obey his image without question. So it attempted to log in as Goldenblood, so to speak.

Even the Robomination was capable of conversation to some extent. "YOU DARE!" and all that, when she pulled Folly on it. The Cyberdaemon is smart in some ways, like I said before. It's not simply a raging bull; it's just alien. It doesn't understand mortals at all.

Hm. That is a very interesting idea. It's quite capable of acting like a normal pony... but only when it's actively pretending to be one! And it only does that for specific reasons. Now, the question is: why doesn't it take advantage of a more flexible mindset more often? Does it just not occur to it to do so?

SilentCarto wrote:What makes you think the AoD ever had the Eternity core, outside of being executed to add her soul to it?

Why the heck would they add her soul to it on purpose? I assumed she got it put in her during her stint with the MoP, and then they pulled it out when it became clear she was uncontrollable. She may have even escaped from the MoP -- it's hard to contain somebody who can die in the attempt to escape and then keep going.

Anyway, I've been assuming that the "soul collector" aspect of Eternity was an unintended side effect.

Wingpower measures how much air a pegasus is 'dragging' with them as they fly.

Headcanon accepted.

O. Hinds wrote:Hm. That is a very interesting idea. It's quite capable of acting like a normal pony... but only when it's actively pretending to be one! And it only does that for specific reasons. Now, the question is: why doesn't it take advantage of a more flexible mindset more often? Does it just not occur to it to do so?

Well... it can't change its mindset; imitating a living pony is as difficult for it as imitating a computer would be for you. It can simulate it for a few seconds, but it can't sustain conversation that skews too far from its expected conversation tree, like when BJ started quizzing it with personal information about Goldenblood.

Blackjack perceived the Goldenblood attempt as 'sloppy' and 'blunt', as if someone were putting minimal effort into fooling her. Maybe that distraction is due to spamming Hank and every other robot in Hippocratic with kill orders, or because it's a distributed network that only allocated part of itself to that task.

FeatherDust wrote:Why the heck would they add her soul to it on purpose? I assumed she got it put in her during her stint with the MoP, and then they pulled it out when it became clear she was uncontrollable. She may have even escaped from the MoP -- it's hard to contain somebody who can die in the attempt to escape and then keep going.

Anyway, I've been assuming that the "soul collector" aspect of Eternity was an unintended side effect.

Well, they deliberately implanted it into Razorwire and shot her in the head. If they're willing to sacrifice a petty crook to it, why not a serial killer? They were already using prisoners in the soul jar process. The worthless and undesirable. It wasn't supposed to leak their personalities into the user, it was a super healing talisman built with the souls of those who wouldn't be missed.

Candy didn't escape from custody after her first capture, she was released. Presumably after extensive memory modification.

SilentCarto wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Hm. That is a very interesting idea. It's quite capable of acting like a normal pony... but only when it's actively pretending to be one! And it only does that for specific reasons. Now, the question is: why doesn't it take advantage of a more flexible mindset more often? Does it just not occur to it to do so?

Well... it can't change its mindset; imitating a living pony is as difficult for it as imitating a computer would be for you. It can simulate it for a few seconds, but it can't sustain conversation that skews too far from its expected conversation tree, like when BJ started quizzing it with personal information about Goldenblood.

Blackjack perceived the Goldenblood attempt as 'sloppy' and 'blunt', as if someone were putting minimal effort into fooling her. Maybe that distraction is due to spamming Hank and every other robot in Hippocratic with kill orders, or because it's a distributed network that only allocated part of itself to that task.

I agree with what you're saying, but point of order: The Goldenblood Deception was at Flash Industries, using the holoprojector gems, not at Hippocratic.

Still, I would say that the horribly sloppy attempt was as good as it could do. It's simply too inequine to maintain a deceptive appearance like that for more than a couple of lines. I agree with the idea that it thought maybe it could control her -- gain "root access" -- with the image of Goldenblood, and when that didn't work it just went right back to the usual.

Well, they deliberately implanted it into Razorwire and shot her in the head. If they're willing to sacrifice a petty crook to it, why not a serial killer? They were already using prisoners in the soul jar process. The worthless and undesirable. It wasn't supposed to leak their personalities into the user, it was a super healing talisman built with the souls of those who wouldn't be missed.

Or it wasn't working right when they shot Razor -- she was intended to regenerate from a mortal injury, but she didn't.

Candy didn't escape from custody after her first capture, she was released. Presumably after extensive memory modification.

We don't know that. We have one pony's skewed view of what happened. She said straight up that essentially "what happens in the ministries, stays in the ministries". If Angel had escaped, they wouldn't have broadcast that it was an escape. But I'm not saying it has to be an escape, maybe they put the thing in her and let her go after thinking their treatments had worked. Heck, maybe Eternity interfered with memory erasure.

....actually, it would almost HAVE to, wouldn't it? If Rampage can regenerate her entire freaking HEAD and still be the same pony she was before, her memories must be stored in Eternity with her soul. We know souljar'd ponies retain their memories to some extent -- Petunia recognized her name despite being a bolt of cloth. Consider, the MOP could do their little extraction spell ad infinitum, and it wouldn't matter, because Eternity would just rebuild those brain pathways.

FeatherDust wrote:I agree with what you're saying, but point of order: The Goldenblood Deception was at Flash Industries, using the holoprojector gems, not at Hippocratic.

Yes... but Hank is at Hippocratic.

FeatherDust wrote:But I'm not saying it has to be an escape, maybe they put the thing in her and let her go after thinking their treatments had worked. Heck, maybe Eternity interfered with memory erasure.

It doesn't have to, though -- we already know that memory modification therapy doesn't work. The memory of what she did might be gone, but the emotions and personality that drove her to do it in the first place are still present.

SilentCarto wrote:

FeatherDust wrote:But I'm not saying it has to be an escape, maybe they put the thing in her and let her go after thinking their treatments had worked. Heck, maybe Eternity interfered with memory erasure.

It doesn't have to, though -- we already know that memory modification therapy doesn't work. The memory of what she did might be gone, but the emotions and personality that drove her to do it in the first place are still present.

Sure, I'm not saying that's a certainty, it just got me thinking on the track that memory erasure might not work against somebody with the Eternity Core.

Actually, come to that, "Three months later she was out and doing it again. Only this time, she knew how we’d caught her and changed her habits." That kinda sounds like she had all her memories intact. Doesn't HAVE to mean that, but...

Nurse Graves can't be Garnet, can she? Last time I recall, Garnet and Co. were on the / at the Redoubt from Vanity's memories.

I'm not so sure they did any memory modification on the AoD. Gotta reread to make sure.

Well, I just spent nine hours crawling around in a sweltering eighteen wheeler and hauling crates from place to place. Downside: Exhausted. Upside: Too exhausted to feel emotions. Upside: Three months of doing this on a daily basis has gotten me in good enough shape to do inverted situps with no problem. Downside: Three months of doing this on a daily basis has gotten me to start taking my painkillers by the fistful and washing them down with cheap beer.

Any more of that and before you know it I'll be bullet-timing my way around Sao Paolo, shooting gangsters in the face with twin Berettas.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:The
guilt thing actually sounds somewhat familiar, to be honest. Not every
day, though. And you don't have to feel bad for talking about it -
sometimes it helps. It doesn't sound like whining to me; not to mention
that I did ask, after all.

Anyroad, I can definitely agree with
you that refilling prescriptions at the last minute will pretty much
inevitably lead to complications ('cos of Murphy's law). And I'm right
there with ya on the crush thing, mate - you sure it wouldn't work out?
I'm probably not the one to listen to for advice on this sort of thing,
but you never know. Anyway, most folks tend to forgive drunken antics in
my experience, at least if it doesn't become a habit.

Thanks. Got mah peels refilled and I'm feeling a touch better, so that's good. I know at some point, I'm going to start hating myself for even mentioning it, though. Project Horizons seems to attract damaged folks at about the same rate Blackjack does, and I know some of you all have issues that are so much bigger than mine. I'm in school, I've got a job and a roof over my head, and I don't have to panic when it comes time to pay bills at the end of the month. I've just got a lot of rubble cluttering up my head and it's taking waaaaay too long to clean it all up.

And no, it wouldn't work out. She's seeing someone else (even though it's an open relationship, I'm not comfortable edging in on someone else's significant other). Not saying nothing would ever happen between us, but I think we're better as friends anyway. I just don't like... losing my composure, I guess. I'm used to keeping a pretty tight rein on my emotions and feelings, and just blabbing about everything after drinking too much scares the hell out of me.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Thanks for the not-ugly thing, though if I'm honest it is a bit more complicated - what isn't, though? =P

I know the whole "It's what's inside that counts!" schtick is so cliche it hurts, but at least in my case, it's true. I'm attracted to personalities. Intelligence, humor, compassion, dedication, kindness. Those are all huge turn-ons for me. Not that a hot body hurts, mind you, but it's really just a nice extra. You don't drink a milkshake for the cherry on top, after all.

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:And
I could give you recommendations on decent erotic fiction if you
wanted, I expect. Not as good recommendations as some, and it'd mostly
focus on story content and stuff like that, 'cos that's what I know
about, but still. =P Technically, I could in fact do that!

No, no need for that. My Strategic Smut Reserve isn't projected to run out until long after the sun is a cold, blackened cinder. I was mostly asking for what (mostly canon) PH ships people would like to see.

I thought that I'd give you an update on the progress of the resolution of that potential issue in the afterlife/dream/thing that SilentCarto spotted.
The teal was definitely deliberate.
The lavender was either meant to be Twilight, in which case it's a mistake and I've already got a replacement ready that has Blackjack welcomed first by the pink light, or it was meant to be Gin Rummy, in which case it's correct. Unfortunately, Somber's statement on this one was rather ambiguous, and they've not yet replied to my request to clarification.

I like how you talk about Somber in plural.
"They" can be used in the following contexts:
-ambiguous gender
-multiple persons
-royalty (majestic plural).

All three apply.

RandomBlank wrote:I like how you talk about Somber in plural.
"They" can be used in the following contexts:
-ambiguous gender
-multiple persons
-royalty (majestic plural).

All three apply.

Personally, I like option 3, but I approve of this post.


Anyways, it's been too long, get your insulin and shock paddles handy.

Spoiler:

Link to page (warning: second frame contains Puppy): http://boo-project-horizons.tumblr.com/post/25640176240

Woona-style nose-boop?

RandomBlank wrote:Woona-style nose-boop?

That was the idea, at least. But Puppy's too short to boop at high velocity after emerging from a pile of snack cakes...

also... *passes out on the couch*

Quotidian wrote:Any more of that and before you know it I'll be bullet-timing my way around Sao Paolo, shooting gangsters in the face with twin Berettas.

Side-effects may include: dry mouth, nausea, depression, paranoia, bullet time, conspiracies, and violent outbursts.

Wait, were we talking about Max Payne or Blackjack?

O. Hinds wrote:The teal was definitely deliberate.

Okay, I guess Dash is rainbooming her way around the cosmos at the moment.

"Dashie--"
"SPAAAAAACE!"
"Dash! Come say hi to--"
"I'M IN SPAAAAAAACE! WOOOOHOOOOOOOO!"
"Rainbow Dash! --aww, you missed her."

So, who do we know that's blue-green in coat or mane, and dead? I guess Luna could be one possibility, though she's more on the purple (red) side of blue than green.

Oh, hang on... Snails has a blue-green mane. Huh... well, we shall see in the next chapter or so whether he's a candidate, I expect.

Just to be clear: based on what Snips said, a feral ghoul's soul has moved on, right? It's just a soulless body that doesn't realize it's supposed to be dead?

WavemasterRyx wrote:Anyways, it's been too long, get your insulin and shock paddles handy.

Awww... epic boop. Almost as epic as...

The Ultimate Cross-Boop:

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Anyways, it's been too long, get your insulin and shock paddles handy.

Spoiler:

Link to page (warning: second frame contains Puppy): http://boo-project-horizons.tumblr.com/post/25640176240

Hehe. Puppysmiles. Very nice, Wave. Cute, too.

RandomBlank wrote:I like how you talk about Somber in plural.
"They" can be used in the following contexts:
-ambiguous gender
-multiple persons
-royalty (majestic plural).
All three apply.

I heartily agree with the third one. All hail Them!

SilentCarto wrote:

The Ultimate Cross-Boop:

Still waiting for Stygius to pacify an angry monster by booping it on the nose.

WavemasterRyx wrote:also... *passes out on the couch*

So long and thanks for all the Boo. Goodnight.

Sorry I've been so silent. There've been some developments. On Thursday mom finally gave me the deadline. Move out by August or she was going to double my rent. Then I had a panic attack and she told me to get over it. Fortunately the wonderful folks at the IRC managed to talk me down from checking out. Spiffy's given me a plan B, which is moving to Arizona and working at a call center with him. Apparently he's a supervisor so hopefully it will work out. I'm still looking for a plan A that doesn't involve checking out. I don't plan on stopping PH tho. I'll try and have it out by next week, though it's hard to focus atm.

Anyway, just wanted to tell you. Sorry for the bad news.

Well, good luck with that Somber, hope you find a way to make it work.
Also, cue everyone else offering you a place to stay, even Katarn.