Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

by Icy Shake Mon May 18, 2015 4:38 am

And I'm getting to benefit from not having a job for a while! Woo late night reading! It's been a while since I've really been able to do that on a Sunday.

Chapter Seventy Five Part Two Running Thoughts:

Chapter Seventy Five Part Two Editing:

Overall:

Well, it's been an interesting chapter, and thank you all for all the work that went into it. Now just to see how it all ends up. But first, EFNW.

by O. Hinds Mon May 18, 2015 7:16 am

atikin wrote:Yeah, I used this page. But now there is a link to part two in there. I don't know what the problem was, but it's OK now. Thanks.

Hm. Strange. Sorry about that.

Replies to Ryx:

@Icy Shake:
Ah, thank you.

Icy Shake wrote:"Betelgeuese"

Um, sorry, but pretty much all the sources I'm finding are saying that it's "Betelgeuse". Thanks for pointing out the spelling error, but why do you think that it (and presumably the occurrence of "Betelgeuse" in the chapter) is "Betelgeuese"?

Icy Shake wrote:Ryx is right about Scotch's eyes. They've been teal/blue-green, described as either at various times but not as dark blue like P-21's. Unless it's a trick of Blackjack's mind . . .

I've put my solution to this in my replies to Ryx.

Icy Shake wrote:Heh. Biped "cavalry" showing up for the horses.

:)

Icy Shake wrote:Or maybe it wasn't an option inside.

Hades would rather not have blown holes in the walls of his own castle, yes. :)

Icy Shake wrote:I swear, Persephone is just the best.

:)

Icy Shake wrote:!!!
Okay, this is just like one of the most PH things ever.

Again :).

Icy Shake wrote:So, familiar with Horizon's Versebreaker project? When I saw that, it made me think of the battle effects of songs and musical numbers in PH, and how versebreaking could fit in as something some zebra specialists might do.

I know of it, have it on a list, and did also think of it here, as I recall, but I've not actually gotten around to reading it yet.

Icy Shake wrote:But wasn't it always not a straight shot? Isn't that something that the Legate and his Starkatteri super orbital calculation talent should have told him? Or did he not think about the actual location of the lunar base?

He obviously got flawed information somewhere. Where, I'm not sure.

Icy Shake wrote:Wasn't that Cogs's plan, the capture part, even though she didn't know this aspect existed? Is it even necessary?

Part of it is the effect of Blackjack's work on the moon, I assume.

by Icy Shake Mon May 18, 2015 11:05 am

O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:"Betelgeuese"
Um, sorry, but pretty much all the sources I'm finding are saying that it's "Betelgeuse". Thanks for pointing out the spelling error, but why do you think that it (and presumably the occurrence of "Betelgeuse" in the chapter) is "Betelgeuese"?

I honestly can't say for sure. Looks like it was caught in a spell check pass, and rather than catching that the letters were reversed, I thought one was missing. It is a very e-heavy word, after all.

by Derpmind Mon May 18, 2015 12:56 pm

...

Spoiler:

by Icy Shake Mon May 18, 2015 2:16 pm

swicked wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Wow that sounds like the Angel.
There's actually a pretty big difference between them. The Angel killed to end pain. Amadi kills because he finds mortal life loathsome.
He hates his past loves for growing old, ugly and dying. They are scum. Mortality is cruel and disgusting. It used to pain him, losing someone he loved, but now he sees mortals as the disposable, broken little things they are.
The Angel did not perform her killings out of hate. She felt what she was doing was right. She took pleasure in "helping" others and thwarting those that would stop her from performing her "benevolent" works.
Amadi just sees cockroaches everywhere, scurrying around, and he hates them. He wants to step on them. To rid them from existence.
The fact that he also marries them and has children with them is just hippocracy.

Right. But because he's a hypocrite, he seems to me to phrase things in a more self-serving way like he is, like the Angel, doing them a favor, at least part of the time. Gotta say, though, he seems to be doing some massive projection of his problems onto other immortals, where there might have been some vague similarity with Celestia right after Littlehorn or the Goddess, but doesn't seem to fit well with Luna (as opposed to Cognitum) or Discord, or most of the stars, from what I can tell, and certainly not Tom.

by Icy Shake Mon May 18, 2015 2:37 pm

swicked wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:Gotta say, though, he seems to be doing some massive projection of his problems onto other immortals, where there might have been some vague similarity with Celestia right after Littlehorn or the Goddess, but doesn't seem to fit well with Luna (as opposed to Cognitum) or Discord, or most of the stars, from what I can tell, and certainly not Tom.
We can't know for sure, but I don't think he considers Celestia, Luna, and Discord immortals. The latter two died and the first is bodily dead, at least.
The immortals he's comparing himself to are the other stars which the zebra teach as being malevolent and wanting the destruction of the living.
...so yeah, given he could stand near the Eater and consider himself to be even remotely in the same league he had a very, very big ego, indeed.

Fair point, but it's not like the stars are actually forever, either. Maybe he's just being myopic, which could also account for thinking that immortality was a sufficient type of perspective independent of the sorts of things the princesses and Discord had going on, to say nothing of the stars. Hubris, and all that.

by WavemasterRyx Mon May 18, 2015 3:24 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

O. Hinds wrote:
Replies to Ryx:

Spoiler:

by Guest Mon May 18, 2015 5:48 pm

Oh and I noticed talk of a patreon, I don't really know if it's started yet, but might I suggest waiting until PH concludes? You've been accused of killing other stories, no doubt if you open it and your story once again is stretched (not saying that's a bad thing) you'll be accused of stretching it to prolong your relevance (you do have an audience now and who can really say what'll happen to it when the story reaches it's conclusion and you move on to your next project) to make more money on the service.

Of course that's just a (well meaning) suggestion, feel free to ignore it.

by O. Hinds Mon May 18, 2015 9:55 pm

Icy Shake wrote:

I honestly can't say for sure. Looks like it was caught in a spell check pass, and rather than catching that the letters were reversed, I thought one was missing. It is a very e-heavy word, after all.

Ah. :)

Derpmind wrote:...

Spoiler:

No, the current plan is to have an epilogue. Though, given your capitalization there, did you mean something else?
(And no comment on the rest of that, of course. :))

@swicked regarding the Psychoshy posts:
Nice. :)

Ryx wrote:Well thank you, sir, I'm glad you think so, at least.

:)

Last wrote:Oh and I noticed talk of a patreon, I don't really know if it's started yet, but might I suggest waiting until PH concludes? You've been accused of killing other stories, no doubt if you open it and your story once again is stretched (not saying that's a bad thing) you'll be accused of stretching it to prolong your relevance (you do have an audience now and who can really say what'll happen to it when the story reaches it's conclusion and you move on to your next project) to make more money on the service.

Of course that's just a (well meaning) suggestion, feel free to ignore it.

Um, the Patreon has already been open for a while, as far as I know.

by CD Tue May 19, 2015 1:38 am

swicked wrote:In my opinion Amadi is as close as this fic comes to big "e" Evil any living being comes.
He can justify things any way he wants... the minds of the Brood are based on his own and you can see how cruel and sadistic they could be. As soon as they had minds and semi-independance they began to enjoy the slaughter.
I don't see any altruism in his actions... just justifications for what he enjoys.
He really is just a psychpath. A psychopath with power.
...or, at least, he was.

I think he's simply a nihilist. Lots of world destroying villains are like that, and that's what makes them loathesome. Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, at least it's an ethos.

by O. Hinds Tue May 19, 2015 9:40 am

Okay, we decided to make another change to the chapter:

by Icy Shake Tue May 19, 2015 11:10 am

O. Hinds wrote:
Okay, we decided to make another change to the chapter:

Neat. More assertive Scotch is nice.

Minor Editing:

Huh. Warning's new. Well, guess that case is fairly different from all the other stuff, not being covered by the old "rape and snuff porn" comic.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 12:30 pm

@Hinds Huh, fairly certain I saw a good luck or two recently. Made me think it hadn't started yet. Or at least was fairly new. My mistake.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 2:52 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Okay, we decided to make another change to the chapter:

... This isn't new information about the queue, I suppose. But I always at least hoped given what we knew about the overmare and her mother that at the very least there was some segregation involving age. Because even within 99 who has one of the sexes born into a rape role that there were at least some standards. Nope.

A while ago there was some mention of the best darn momy ending with some relation to BJ, she really seems like an unfit parent to me.

by Borsuq Tue May 19, 2015 3:52 pm

About newest chapter:

by Downloaded Skill Tue May 19, 2015 4:25 pm

Curious because it's scenes like these that make me like these characters more. It highlights just how fundamentally different their upbringing made them from other "normal" people. Sex was just a way of unwinding or passing time similar to how we would play video games. The profound cultural differences drew me to this fic in the first place because it provided me so many opportunities to pick things apart and just understand the whys and hows of how Blackjack's society worked and how it influenced her life and how this affects her interactions with those outside her group. I'm extremely curious about how Blackjack is going to raise her kids and how other people are going to react to it.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:27 pm

With any luck by removing them from her custody.

by Downloaded Skill Tue May 19, 2015 4:43 pm

I disagree. Given the conditions of the wasteland and Blackjack's experiences her parenting is hardly dangerous given the conditions. There is no way she isn't going to bring them back to 99 for implants if they're female. She has a good moral compass, but a skewed viewpoint on the nature of social relationships. If anything she is a better mother than most since her children are more than likely going to end up moral and noble instead of having the typical "amoral, only in it for themselves" wastelander morality.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:49 pm

If they survive her bringing them into battle, her ignoring what they're trying to tell her as they grow as she's done with many of her companions when it's conveniant for herself, her alcholism. And the cherry on the cake her allowing adults to have sex with them.

She is not someone who should have responsibility for anyone's children. Period. Not even her own.

by Downloaded Skill Tue May 19, 2015 4:54 pm

And all of those things are not uncommon in the wasteland. My problem with your position is that I believe that you're comparing her style with modern normal practices. The wasteland is screwed up six ways to Sunday and normal doesn't exist as we know it so comparing it to "normal" is completely pointless from my perspective. However considering the circumstances and the setting of the story she honestly comes across as the best candidate in the wasteland since she actually cares about people and is willing to raise them in a way that promotes friendship, which is the cornerstone of the entire setting.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 5:11 pm

Downloaded Skill wrote:And all of those things are not uncommon in the wasteland. My problem with your position is that I believe that you're comparing her style with modern normal practices. The wasteland is screwed up six ways to Sunday and normal doesn't exist as we know it so comparing it to "normal" is completely pointless from my perspective. However considering the circumstances and the setting of the story she honestly comes across as the best candidate in the wasteland since she actually cares about people and is willing to raise them in a way that promotes friendship, which is the cornerstone of the entire setting.

So you're argument is pretty much "It's the wasteland" which pretty much will excuse every immoral thing BJ does. Am I correct in that assumption? I desperately need to know if that's the argument your going with. Because if it is there's no point at all in arguing against it. It's just a waste of my time.

I think that regardless of where you are, allowing that to happen to a child will cause harm to them and remains immoral wherever you go because of it. Not because normal with quotes around it.

by Borsuq Tue May 19, 2015 5:25 pm

Yeah, I know this flesh outs their characters, shows that they've been brought up in a different enviroment and all. With that I have no problem. I just feel bad because I don't like to imagine what the guys they're doing think about them.

Also:

Downloaded Skill wrote:She has a good moral compass

Her f***ing moral compass is a roulette field!

I know that's not exactly accurate, but I couldn't help myself from making the reference, sorry ;p

In all honesty, I think Blackjack would be a great mother... assuming there would be somebody who actually grew up in a real family to help her along. *hint hint*. But joking about taking kids from her is a bit too far.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 5:28 pm

That's not a joke Borsuq, I don't have a problem with BJ having a role in their lives. Like being able to visit and spend time with them. But someone else should definitely have responsibility over them.

by Downloaded Skill Tue May 19, 2015 5:31 pm

Last you wound me by making my position sound like that. Simply stated no one in the wasteland is going to be a fit mother. The place is too messed up and people were changed on a fundamental level. As a result you really have to look at the options available in the setting. Given the amount of choices BJ could reasonably make when it comes to building future generations there really aren't any good choices. While BJ is not perfect I believe she is the "best of the worst" since she has the moral compass and the drive to bring people together and build a functioning civilized society that can survive and thrive. There is not a doubt in my mind she will past that belief onto her children and anyone who followers her. Given the choices available I believe Blackjack is the best choice and while choosing something more that we're comfortable with would have been nice if it's not one of the options we have to choose from bringing it into consideration is a waste of time.

She has a philosophy that is downright progressive for the setting and has created the society bonds and friendships that are the corner stone of the whole meta of the show. Without things like this giving people a nudge in the right direction they will inevitably fall back into old behaviors. These beliefs have to be passed onto the next generation for the setting to reach anything resembling normal.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 5:40 pm

Like I said I haven't read the last few chapters, waiting for them all to come out to do so. Don't know who is left alive. But what about Charity? She seems to be doing rather well taking care of the other children.

What about Glory's sisters? They lived in a family with many children. We know parental responsibilty had to be shared among the siblings because of it. I know Glory helped raise the youngest in fact. They seem like a good fit.

I'm sure there are more than that, that could do the job and owe BJ at least one favor. She in my opinion lacks the mental faculties, partly because of where she was raised and partly because of her traumas and behaviors. What happened with Scotch is just one more thing piled on top.

by Downloaded Skill Tue May 19, 2015 5:43 pm

I'm not bringing those into consideration because I don't think the exact information who survived and who hasn't has been confirmed yet. I'm merely working with the information I have.

by O. Hinds Tue May 19, 2015 8:27 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
Minor Editing:

Ah, thanks.

Last wrote:@Hinds Huh, fairly certain I saw a good luck or two recently. Made me think it hadn't started yet. Or at least was fairly new. My mistake.

No problem, I think.

by Icy Shake Tue May 19, 2015 8:45 pm

swicked wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Okay, we decided to make another change to the chapter:
I want to post an explanation for both this scene and the edits themselves.
The scene received some strong negative responses due to Scotch being perceived as much younger than she is. She was, per her introduction, a few months short of being put on the breeding cue. Despite fanarts making her as small as a CMC I placed her as in her mid to late teens (I don't know what view on her the others had, I don't remember any discussion over her exact age prior to the release) having gotten her mark late in life because 99 doesn't give a damn what a mare is good at. Each mare to takes over the job of her mom, no exceptions. This means, if someone's special talent isn't the exact same thing as their mom's and their mom's mom's and etc. all the way back, or isn't something that can be picked up recreationally (via gambling or sex or... actually, that's it, really), one could potentially NEVER get their cutie mark.
This was likely the case with Scotch. Her talent is in making new things. Construction and the like. Her job in 99 was to maintain things exactly the way they are.
Yes, Bastard calls her underage. He doesn't actually know her age, though. A lot younger than he is, at least, but she came on to him. Really aggressively, too. He just went with it because he's a bastard.

All of that said the scene actually did give the majority of the editors some level of pause on first read (though I personally don't like ANY sex or romance scenes so I'm never much of a good judge). We considered a disclaimer and Somber actually removed the scene from the story for about a week... but no alternatives fit right. Scotch is sad, she's a 99 mare, she's going to deal with her problems the way a 99 mare would. The issue was stalling the chapter and got tabled and then, weeks later, we'd moved on.

Thanks for the clarification. Apart from my view being early-to-mid teen, due to some things Somber had said elsewhere about Blackjack's age, that sounds pretty much like I'd have expected.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 8:55 pm

So is Switchblade a liar or are you pulling this out of your ass?

http://sw1tchbl4de.deviantart.com/art/Project-Horizons-Cover-261570078

Read the description. Particularly the part of Somber correcting descrepencies, then look at scotch (who to my memory was not an original member of the cover so Somber likely talked to him about her design) does she look mid to late teens? Or does she look exactly like the CMC?

Look, this is a story about the wasteland. There will undoubtadly be uncomfortable topics brought up, so I'm not arguing againt it being present. But this seems like you guys are lying to make BJ look better.

Even forgetting the image multiple times I've brought up Scotch's age here guessing at ten to thirteen because of the picture and the fact she didn't have her cutiemark and was never corrected. So why now?

Edit: Confirmed Scotch wasn't originally there. Look at the edit.

by Icy Shake Tue May 19, 2015 9:28 pm

I recall sometime in the last year Somber saying something (on Reddit, maybe?) that made me believe Blackjack was 17-19, and Scotch Tape was no more than five years younger than that. Checking . . . okay, here we go (emphasis mine):

In 99, age of consent was roughly a 5 year gap. If you were within 5 years then people looked the other way because otherwise the young population would be in rebellion. In my head, Blackjack is 17 and Scotch Tape is 12. Maybe that explains why I don't think it's so outrageous. But 99 ruthlessly and aggressively made sex as untitilating as possible to keep mares from sympathizing with stallions, and to keep mares from breaking the rules to get at stallions.

The problem I think most people have is sex in 99 is 99% recreational. There's not a lot of stuff to do, so people find people to do. This leads to all kinds of emotional and relationship dysfunction. Really, if there was a fetish, there were ponies doing it. The big bench marks were consent and incest, because the parent and child were housed together.

Link

And according to someone on the thread she'd already been on the queue?

(Edited to add bold to quotation.)

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