[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

cb5 wrote:

Scienza wrote:

cb5 wrote:

Scienza wrote:That combined with the inventory sorter, often described as the most useful PipBuck function, which greatly simplifies logistics.

Keeping your pack always organized is taught in basic training.  They don't like it when you don't do this cause that means you're not listening to a commanding officer's orders and oh boy are you in deep shit if they find out.

Whether you're trained to do it or not, the inventory sorting is still incredibly useful. Given that the NCR probably doesn't have anything like the massive supply lines that Earth militaries do, soldiers out on the borders and in enemy territory are going to need to make full use of all resources as well as scavenge what they can. Imagine running out of ammunition, pinned down by enemies, and having to somehow fight with a scattering of bullets in assorted calibers which you looted off the raider den. You can either a) frantically attempt to shove bullets into your rifle regardless of caliber. b) frantically attempting to organize your ammo supply c) just call up the inventory sorting spell and grab a rifle and appropriate ammunition.

Even with only one PipBuck per team, the officer can effectively allocate weapons and ammo to their team.

That's the purpose of supply units though.  Yeah I agree Equestria doesn't have as many resources, however there's a reason why supply troops exist.  Even with the inventory sorter it should only be given to supply troops.  But if supply troops are constantly on the frontline cause they're picking up raider bullets then that voids the entire purpose of supply troops.  Supply troops are for support not frontline soldiers.

And that's why an inventory sorter is militarily useful, much more so than S.A.T.S. S.A.T.S. merely allows the soldier to be more accurate. The inventory sorter allows a unit to effectively equip and maintain itself for years in the field.  Battles are won by bullets, wars are won with logistics.

Also, I still think that you're kinda overestimating the industrial and technological capacities of the NCR at ten years post SPP. No matter how many factories you scavenge, or plans you find, you're not going to go from the equivalent of a tribal hunter-gatherer society (albeit, one with guns), with the net ability to make absolutely nothing new, to a cyberpunk superpower cranking out implants and smartguns for every soldier in anything less than 75 years. They'll be able to manufacture bullets and guns, maybe some basic magical items like healing options and simple talismans, but anything more advanced than that is going to be rare, expensive, and most likely defective, like the knockoff PipBucks.

Scienza wrote:And that's why an inventory sorter is militarily useful, much more so than S.A.T.S. S.A.T.S. merely allows the soldier to be more accurate. The inventory sorter allows a unit to effectively equip and maintain itself for years in the field.  Battles are won by bullets, wars are won with logistics.

Only for supply units, and supply units are support troops that organize everything and appropriate their resources accordinly. If supply troops HAVE to use the inventory sorter cause they're so close to the action and quickly need to do so then they're doing it wrong. Also part of the supply troops' jobs are to make sure that nothing is damaged and prevent a soldier from accidentally blowing their hoof off cause of a faulty gun or such. The inventory sorter in a pipbuck can check the quality of the gun, but it can't tell the gun's barrel is compromised. If the gun's barrel is compromised then that soldier is going to lose their hand, but pipbucks can't tell what individual parts of a gun are damaged only the level of how damaged the overall gun is. Nor can it check to see if a bullet is compromised. If either the barrel or the bullet is compromised, which a inventory sorter can't tell, then that's one dead pony.

cb5 wrote:

Scienza wrote:And that's why an inventory sorter is militarily useful, much more so than S.A.T.S. S.A.T.S. merely allows the soldier to be more accurate. The inventory sorter allows a unit to effectively equip and maintain itself for years in the field.  Battles are won by bullets, wars are won with logistics.

Only for supply units, and supply units are support troops that organize everything and appropriate their resources accordinly.  If supply troops HAVE to use the inventory sorter cause they're so close to the action and quickly need to do so then they're doing it wrong.  Also part of the supply troops' jobs are to make sure that nothing is damaged and prevent a soldier from accidentally blowing their hoof off cause of a faulty gun or such.  The inventory sorter in a pipbuck can check the quality of the gun, but it can't tell the gun's barrel is compromised.  If the gun's barrel is compromised then that soldier is going to lose their hand, but pipbucks can't tell what individual parts of a gun are damaged only the level of how damaged the overall gun is.  Nor can it check to see if a bullet is compromised.  If either the barrel or the bullet is compromised, which a inventory sorter can't tell, then that's one dead pony.

Yes, but that's better than not knowing what condition the internals of your rifle are in at all.

That's the thing about the inventory sorter. It cuts out a large part of the need for supply troops at all. With it, the quartermaster is one of the team, able to allocate ammo to the squad dynamically rather than rely on another unit.

Scienza wrote:Yes, but that's better than not knowing what condition the internals of your rifle are in at all.

I don't see how losing your hand cause someone thought, "damaged" meant "still able to fire without injuring you" is better. Rust on the inside of the bolt or towards the back of the barrel would show up as next to no damage from a inventory sorter and show up as in great shape, but if you fired that there's going to be shrapnel in your everything. It's why soldiers have to constantly take care of their weapons and check for damage. Not checking your gun for damage is a quick way to wind up in a body bag.

cb5 wrote:

Scienza wrote:Yes, but that's better than not knowing what condition the internals of your rifle are in at all.

I don't see how losing your hand cause someone thought, "damaged" meant "still able to fire without injuring you" is better.  Rust on the inside of the bolt or towards the back of the barrel would show up as next to no damage from a inventory sorter and show up as in great shape, but if you fired that there's going to be shrapnel in your everything.  It's why soldiers have to constantly take care of their weapons and check for damage.  Not checking your gun for damage is a quick way to wind up in a body bag.

The PipBuck isn't meant to replace the soldiers, it's meant to supplement and augment their effectiveness.

Scienza wrote:

cb5 wrote:

Scienza wrote:Yes, but that's better than not knowing what condition the internals of your rifle are in at all.

I don't see how losing your hand cause someone thought, "damaged" meant "still able to fire without injuring you" is better.  Rust on the inside of the bolt or towards the back of the barrel would show up as next to no damage from a inventory sorter and show up as in great shape, but if you fired that there's going to be shrapnel in your everything.  It's why soldiers have to constantly take care of their weapons and check for damage.  Not checking your gun for damage is a quick way to wind up in a body bag.

The PipBuck isn't meant to replace the soldiers, it's meant to supplement and augment their effectiveness.

My point is that sure using the inventory sorter to organize your pack is fine and all, but if you relied on it in other means you would be one dead pony. All it would take is a "little rust" inside your gun that the inventory sorter tells you is fine and KERBLAM you just got your monthly dose of iron directly injected at the speed of sound into your face.

I've just realized something:
If we go with the seasons being caused by the sun (and possibly the moon) spiraling in and out in the plane of the equator, rather than tilting, the northern and southern hemispheres would get the same season at the same time. Thoughts?

I may only mostly lurk on this thread, but I hope the Lords of Headcanon (Hinds and Harmony) don't mind if I chip into this particular discussion.

Why were the Romans one of the greatest fighting forces the world had ever seen at the time? It wasn't because of individual prowess--they weren't all that big, strong, or even very skilled in single combat--it was because of their hitherto unmatched unit cohesion, discipline, and logistical intelligence. They were one of the first armies to severely cut down on pack animals by mandating all soldiers carried everything they'd need on their backs. The mandate was laughed at until the new reports came in telling how much more mobile, less resource-hungry, and generally more effective the army was.

That's just one example, of course, but it illustrates the point very well-- unit cohesion, situational awareness, communication and solid logistics trump handfuls of super-powerful warriors every time.

Thanks for that, Frost.

Anyway.

Yeah, I had thought about that, Hinds. I'm not sure what practical impact it would have on the planet's society.

First thing I can think of is that it would be far more difficult to get out-of-season vegetables and crops shipped to you, magic non-withstanding.

I would also imagine it would be hard for migration-oriented species to do their thing. Lots of birds fly South for the winter, but they're shit outta luck when South is just as ball-shrivelingly cold as the North--Though Winter Wrap-Up had Pegasi escorting birds home from the Southern migration. That can probably be written off as FiM proper's general "Fuck you all" approach to logic and consistency.

I'm no expert on (anything, but more relevantly--) animal behavior, but migrating herds might also be effected. They couldn't survive on seasonal plants, they'd have to be able to digest a wide variety of plants. Such a wide range of plants to meet nutritional requirements would need to be located, mapped out, and followed. Likely meteorological issues in regions such as deserts (planet-wide seasons would likely play hell on how weather works in real life--necessitating Pegasi running weather?) could explain Buffalos' "Ancestral Stampeding Grounds"--it's not a dumb tradition, it's literally how they survive.

Forgive the likely complete lack of logic in the above post

Mister Frost wrote:I may only mostly lurk on this thread, but I hope the Lords of Headcanon (Hinds and Harmony) don't mind if I chip into this particular discussion.

Why were the Romans one of the greatest fighting forces the world had ever seen at the time? It wasn't because of individual prowess--they weren't all that big, strong, or even very skilled in single combat--it was because of their hitherto unmatched unit cohesion, discipline, and logistical intelligence. They were one of the first armies to severely cut down on pack animals by mandating all soldiers carried everything they'd need on their backs. The mandate was laughed at until the new reports came in telling how much more mobile, less resource-hungry, and generally more effective the army was.

That's just one example, of course, but it illustrates the point very well-- unit cohesion, situational awareness, communication and solid logistics trump handfuls of super-powerful warriors every time.

The problem with that is war has changed. It's no longer about logistics or situational awareness. It's about fighting against enemies who slip into crowds of civilians at the drop of a hat. War has changed. It's no longer about two vast armies fighting each other front on; it's a war of attrition as both sides try to wait out each other. The days of normandy are in the past, it's now a case of wearing each other out until they are no longer able to fight.

If it's a question of logistics then why did we lose both afghanistand and iraq? People can claim up and down all day that we won both of those wars, but talk to any soldier who has recently been in either country the war is still going on, the only difference is we ran away.

Nah, it brings good points.

As for the migration thing, I'd imagine they would migrate "South" not toward the other hemisphere but toward the Equator. I guess during the Winter it would be Rain Season in these otherwise relatively arid places ? That could improve the food availability for migrating species. I dunno, throwing shit at the wall to see what stick there.

cb5 wrote:The problem with that is war has changed.  It's no longer about logistics or situational awareness.

If you've been around a while, you might know that it's comparatively rare for me to smile, or show emotion externally. 

You literally made me burst into laughter with that sentence. I nearly fell out of my chair. You should do stand-up; you're a funny guy/girl/[gender noun preference]

Why did the DoD put so much money into the Land Warrior program? It didn't feature auto-aiming guns, guaranteed one-hit-kill munitions, or armor that could stop sniper rounds without letting the soldier flinch. It consisted of cameras, radios, and heads-up displays for every soldier. It would allow the commanders (of modern, real-world battlefields) to get an immediate big-picture look of the battlefield, and keep every soldier from the company level, to the squad level, to the individual, up-to-date and informed on enemy movements and positions, as well as friendly positions (which would cut down on friendly-fire from stray ordinance)

Even disregarding all that, we're not talking about our modern war. We're talking about the wars the NCR's fighting. Forgive me if I'm wrong, Harmony/Hinds, but the NCR is performing full-scale operations against organized forces. Even if your hilariously incorrect statement was true, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Mister Frost wrote:

cb5 wrote:The problem with that is war has changed.  It's no longer about logistics or situational awareness.

If you've been around a while, you might know that it's comparatively rare for me to smile, or show emotion externally. 

You literally made me burst into laughter with that sentence. I nearly fell out of my chair. You should do stand-up; you're a funny guy/girl/[gender noun preference]

Why did the DoD put so much money into the Land Warrior program? It didn't feature auto-aiming guns, guaranteed one-hit-kill munitions, or armor that could stop sniper rounds without letting the soldier flinch. It consisted of cameras, radios, and heads-up displays for every soldier. It would allow the commanders (of modern, real-world battlefields) to get an immediate big-picture look of the battlefield, and keep every soldier from the company level, to the squad level, to the individual, up-to-date and informed on enemy movements and positions, as well as friendly positions (which would cut down on friendly-fire from stray ordinance)

And we still lost both wars.  Even with tanks thick enough that rocket launchers bounce off of(no seriously the rockets bounce off abrams), even with land warrior, even with enough fire power to level nations we still lost.  And all that tech sure as hell didn't stop friendly fire incidents.  Just ask Pat Tillman.

Mister Frost wrote:Even disregarding all that, we're not talking about our modern war. We're talking about the wars the NCR's fighting. Forgive me if I'm wrong, Harmony/Hinds, but the NCR is performing full-scale operations against organized forces. Even if your hilariously incorrect statement was true, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. As are most of your 'contributions', come to think of it.

The ncr's tactics wouldn't work against gorilla tactics though.  They would lose big time.  All it would take for the ncr to completely and utterly lose is for the opposing force to switch tactics and bye bye ncr. Tech doesn't trump good old tactics.

cb5 wrote:

Mister Frost wrote:

cb5 wrote:The problem with that is war has changed.  It's no longer about logistics or situational awareness.

If you've been around a while, you might know that it's comparatively rare for me to smile, or show emotion externally. 

You literally made me burst into laughter with that sentence. I nearly fell out of my chair. You should do stand-up; you're a funny guy/girl/[gender noun preference]

Why did the DoD put so much money into the Land Warrior program? It didn't feature auto-aiming guns, guaranteed one-hit-kill munitions, or armor that could stop sniper rounds without letting the soldier flinch. It consisted of cameras, radios, and heads-up displays for every soldier. It would allow the commanders (of modern, real-world battlefields) to get an immediate big-picture look of the battlefield, and keep every soldier from the company level, to the squad level, to the individual, up-to-date and informed on enemy movements and positions, as well as friendly positions (which would cut down on friendly-fire from stray ordinance)

And we still lost both wars.

I hope you realize that posting these images adds nothing to the conversation and only sucks up bandwith for those on slow connections. It also makes you look like a ponce.

note:

cb5 wrote:

Mister Frost wrote:Even disregarding all that, we're not talking about our modern war. We're talking about the wars the NCR's fighting. Forgive me if I'm wrong, Harmony/Hinds, but the NCR is performing full-scale operations against organized forces. Even if your hilariously incorrect statement was true, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. As are most of your 'contributions', come to think of it.

The ncr's tactics wouldn't work against gorilla tactics though.  They would lose big time.  All it would take for the ncr to completely and utterly lose is for the opposing force to switch tactics and bye bye ncr.

*asshole mode activate*gorillas don't use tactics. They just pound their chests and roar*asshole mode still activated*

What? You mean that tactics geared towards fighting large armies don't work against guerrillas? Thank you for that information. I'm sure it'll come in handy when everyone else on earth figures it out in The Vietnam War. This isn't new information, friend.

The NCR, though, by sheer necessity, has to be tenacious and quick to adapt, and they have the size and resources to weather a few punishing losses before adapting. A few smart tactical decisions don't make a whole war. Rommel could tell you that.

Mister Frost wrote:*asshole mode activate*gorillas don't use tactics. They just pound their chests and roar*asshole mode still activated*

What? You mean that tactics geared towards fighting large armies don't work against guerrillas? Thank you for that information. I'm sure it'll come in handy when everyone else on earth figures it out in The Vietnam War. This isn't new information, friend.

The NCR, though, by sheer necessity, has to be tenacious and quick to adapt, and they have the size and resources to weather a few punishing losses before adapting. A few smart tactical decisions don't make a whole war. Rommel could tell you that.

A ponce is a effeminate man.
And the reason for posting bush was a sarcastic response to your line of thought that whoever has the best tech wins. An example of what I mean by that is if North Korea and South Korea were to go to war.  South Korea has the better equipment and more up to date military weaponry and such, but if they were to go to war north korea would launch mortar shells destroying seoul.  Sure south korea would have technically won, but all their cities would be levelled.  Would that actually be a victory?  My point in this whole thing is that just cause a country has better technology and weaponry doesn't mean they automatically win.

Tl:dr; The NCR didn't win cause they're tenacious or quick to adapt or such, they won cause their enemies are dumb.

cb5 wrote:A ponce is a effeminate man.
And the reason for posting bush was a sarcastic response to your line of thought that whoever has the best tech wins. An example of what I mean by that is if North Korea and South Korea were to go to war.  South Korea has the better equipment and more up to date military weaponry and such, but if they were to go to war north korea would launch mortar shells destroying seoul.  Sure south korea would have technically won, but all their cities would be levelled.  Would that actually be a victory.  My point in this whole thing is that just cause a country has better technology and weaponry doesn't mean they automatically win.

And yet here you are, arguing for auto-aiming guns instead of actual strategy and tactics.

It's not about tech, we agree on that point--it's about (as I will say again for the sixth or so time) cohesion, coordination, and the logistical ability to keep units supplied, fresh, organized and in good morale. Surprise and violence of action are also factors in short-term operations, but in the long-term, solid and sound strategy trumps them, too.

Logistics isn't just about crunching numbers to keep the wheels turning. It helps you get your vehicles from the factory to the field, it keeps ammo and reinforcements coming in, and it keeps your troops well-trained, well-equipped and numerous. 

There is absolutely no dichotomy between logistics and brute force--the better your logistics, the more brute force you can bring to bear on an enemy. 

Where the tech like Land Warrior and Pipbucks come into play is that they assist in coordination and logistics, by methods already expounded upon by Scienza, Harmony, and others smarter than I.

But, enough about thinking logically and how war actually works. Tell me your side of the argument. Please, tell me how a gaggle of ill-fed, miserable soldiers with no clear orders, no clear chain of command, and little ammo for their super-high-tech guns and no fuel for their supertanks will fare against a force, even at the WWII-era tech level, of healthy, strong, and organized soldiers. Enlighten me.

Mister Frost wrote:I would also imagine it would be hard for migration-oriented species to do their thing. Lots of birds fly South for the winter, but they're shit outta luck when South is just as ball-shrivelingly cold as the North--Though Winter Wrap-Up had Pegasi escorting birds home from the Southern migration. That can probably be written off as FiM proper's general "Fuck you all" approach to logic and consistency.

Well, it would still be warmer closer to the equator, no matter which hemisphere the birds were in. Also, I've not done any math to back it up, but I suspect, also, that the seasonal delta temperature would be nonlinearly related to latitude.

Mister Frost wrote:I'm no expert on (anything, but more relevantly--) animal behavior, but migrating herds might also be effected. They couldn't survive on seasonal plants, they'd have to be able to digest a wide variety of plants. Such a wide range of plants to meet nutritional requirements would need to be located, mapped out, and followed. Likely meteorological issues in regions such as deserts (planet-wide seasons would likely play hell on how weather works in real life--necessitating Pegasi running weather?) could explain Buffalos' "Ancestral Stampeding Grounds"--it's not a dumb tradition, it's literally how they survive.

…Are there really that many species that migrate across the equator on Earth? I mean, birds I can see, but the equator is mostly ocean…

Harmony Ltd. wrote:First thing I can think of is that it would be far more difficult to get out-of-season vegetables and crops shipped to you, magic non-withstanding.

...Actually, that raises the question of whether Equestria ever actually deals with out-of-season produce. Since the pegasi control the weather, they would probably be able grow crops whenever they wanted to. With the exception of winter, for obvious temperature and weather differences, season doesn't seem to affect crops that much. If you look at Sweet Apple Acres in the show, no matter what season it is, spring, summer or autumn, delicious red apples always seem to be growing on the trees. Some crops are a bit more finicky, like zap apples, but the seasons don't seem to affect growth.

You might say that Applebuck Season is the autumn harvest when the apples are in season, but Applejack always seems to be bucking apples, regardless of season.

O. Hinds…Are there really that many species that migrate across the equator on Earth?  I mean, birds I can see, but the equator is mostly ocean…

"Now, Applebloom, y'all've finally come've age, so it's time fer y' t' make yer first migration. We earth ponies all get up at this time've year and just start walkin' east. We walk 'n walk 'n walk 'till we come right round back to where we started from. Right through th' ocean. Nobody knows why we do this, all we know is apples."

-

O. Hinds wrote:Well, it would still be warmer closer to the equator, no matter which hemisphere the birds were in.  Also, I've not done any math to back it up, but I suspect, also, that the seasonal delta temperature would be nonlinearly related to latitude.

As I was actually about to post, the fact that so many new species are flocking (lolpun) to the Equator every year could mean that fun things aren't in store for the ecosystem of the host areas every year.

O.Hinds wrote:…Are there really that many species that migrate across the equator on Earth?  I mean, birds I can see, but the equator is mostly ocean…

Again, I might as well put "not an animal/meteorology expert" in my sig at this point, but I was referring more to how even species that don't migrate over the equator--like nomadic Buffalo tribes-- would be effected, partially by the consequences of the North/South climate equity (like the effects it would have on how heat and pressure are equalized on Earth through wind currents and such)

Scienza wrote:You might say that Applebuck Season is the autumn harvest when the apples are in season, but Applejack always seems to be bucking apples, regardless of season.

Other than laziness on the writers'/animators' parts, a possible explanation may be that FEPM (Fuckin' Earth Pony Magic) causes the trees to produce fruit constantly, which is simply collected to make room for new fruit. A rather blatant magical power, but still subtle compared to moving clouds with your bare hooves or fucking TK.

Scienza wrote:Nobody knows why we do this, all we know is apples."

What if apples is bees?

Mister Frost wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Well, it would still be warmer closer to the equator, no matter which hemisphere the birds were in.  Also, I've not done any math to back it up, but I suspect, also, that the seasonal delta temperature would be nonlinearly related to latitude.

As I was actually about to post, the fact that so many new species are flocking (lolpun) to the Equator every year could mean that fun things aren't in store for the ecosystem of the host areas every year.

Nah, given enough time, the ecosystems of the host areas would adapt. It's sudden (on an evolutionary timescale) changes that are the problem.

Mister Frost wrote:

O.Hinds wrote:…Are there really that many species that migrate across the equator on Earth?  I mean, birds I can see, but the equator is mostly ocean…

Again, I might as well put "not an animal/meteorology expert" in my sig at this point, but I was referring more to how even species that don't migrate over the equator--like nomadic Buffalo tribes-- would be effected, partially by the consequences of the North/South climate equity (like the effects it would have on how heat and pressure are equalized on Earth through wind currents and such)

...Once again I'm wanting my own climate-modeling supercomputer.

Question to ya'll over here in wall-of-text land: did Equestria have missiles, or was it only instant cast/spell type megaspells?

O. Hinds wrote:

Mister Frost wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:Well, it would still be warmer closer to the equator, no matter which hemisphere the birds were in.  Also, I've not done any math to back it up, but I suspect, also, that the seasonal delta temperature would be nonlinearly related to latitude.

As I was actually about to post, the fact that so many new species are flocking (lolpun) to the Equator every year could mean that fun things aren't in store for the ecosystem of the host areas every year.

Nah, given enough time, the ecosystems of the host areas would adapt.  It's sudden (on an evolutionary timescale) changes that are the problem.

Meaning that, if Pegasi oversight causes the migration not to go according to plan, the flora and fauna of the area (which must grow and spread explosively to accomodate hundreds of thousands (possilbly millions) of hungry mouths) begin spreading North and South, overruning entire biomes and only limited by winter, and only eventually slowed by soil exhaustion and climate limitations?

Does this mean, after two hundred years of no migrations to keep it trimmed, there could be (perhaps on the other side of the world) a continent-spanning mega-jungle, now filled with radioactive goodies?

stringtheory wrote:Question to ya'll over here in wall-of-text land: did Equestria have missiles, or was it only instant cast/spell type megaspells?

I think Equestria had instant cast megaspells, which is what the megaspell chambers facilitated. If I remember correctly, the zebras only used missiles because they had no practical way of casting them, so they opted for an alchemical solution.

Mister Frost wrote:

Scienza wrote:You might say that Applebuck Season is the autumn harvest when the apples are in season, but Applejack always seems to be bucking apples, regardless of season.

Other than laziness on the writers'/animators' parts, a possible explanation may be that FEPM (Fuckin' Earth Pony Magic) causes the trees to produce fruit constantly, which is simply collected to make room for new fruit. A rather blatant magical power, but still subtle compared to moving clouds with your bare hooves or fucking TK.

That seems rather likely, and it also explains how in-show Equestria can feed cities like Manehattan and Canterlot while relying on manual, hoof-driven farming. Especially since they seem to reject useful and which could rapidly increase their ability to produce food (like the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 600)

Scienza wrote:Nobody knows why we do this, all we know is apples."

What if apples is bees?

REVELATIONS

Scienza wrote:

stringtheory wrote:Question to ya'll over here in wall-of-text land: did Equestria have missiles, or was it only instant cast/spell type megaspells?

I think Equestria had instant cast megaspells, which is what the megaspell chambers facilitated. If I remember correctly, the zebras only used missiles because they had no practical way of casting them, so they opted for an alchemical solution.

In Kkat canon, the Zebras use ballsitic missiles.

However, Hinds analysis led him to believe that the use of ballistic missiles would have been unlikely, for various reasons (basically boiling down to Equestria having the capability to seriously limit the effectiveness of these weapons if they were used against them). I'll let him correct me if I got that wrong.

So instead he went with the Zebra using balefire-tipped cruise missiles (that "SAC II" link in his sig). IIRC that's the interpretation Somber went with.

stringtheory wrote:Question to ya'll over here in wall-of-text land: did Equestria have missiles, or was it only instant cast/spell type megaspells?

I like to imagine they would at least have both. While they had much more powerful spells that channeled the sun into a superweapon as well as others, I doubt they would put all of their hope into just these. Especially since they had to be fired off from special areas which were constructed specifically for the purpose of magnifying magical power from all those involved in channeling the spell. If these places were targetted or, god forbid, failed to properly work at the time they were most needed, that would screw Equestria's entire counter-attack plan. Same goes for if the unicorns tasked with casting the megaspells go missing or end up dead. No unicorns who know the spell, no spell.

Of course it wasn't their primary, but I'd think that they would keep a stash of megaspell warheads ready with missiles to deliver them just in case shit did go down and screw over their primary plan of attack.

stringtheory wrote:Question to ya'll over here in wall-of-text land: did Equestria have missiles, or was it only instant cast/spell type megaspells?

Well, they had the tech for missiles (though not missiles as good as those of the PR, probably), but I don't see why they'd bother, really. A single megaspell casting facility can lurk in a fortified location with no revealing or vulnerable surface shafts, can fire repeatedly, and is more difficult to defend against.

Mister Frost wrote:Does this mean, after two hundred years of no migrations to keep it trimmed, there could be (perhaps on the other side of the world) a continent-spanning mega-jungle, now filled with radioactive goodies?

Well, I have the other side of the world being mostly ocean, but possibly that sort of thing. Of course, Equestria's wildlife was mostly just wiped out, and wildlife elsewhere didn't need pegasus assistance in the first place.

Harmony wrote:However, Hinds analysis led him to believe that the use of ballistic missiles would have been unlikely, for various reasons (basically boiling down to Equestria having the capability to seriously limit the effectiveness of these weapons if they were used against them). I'll let him correct me if I got that wrong.

The situation's changed a bit, but yeah. All the evidence I've seen is either for cruise missiles or could apply to either cruise or ballistic.

Harmony wrote:So instead he went with the Zebra using balefire-tipped cruise missiles (that "SAC II" link in his sig). IIRC that's the interpretation Somber went with.

…Ahhhhh… You… Clearly don't remember… That's probably a good thing, actually. Suffice it to say that I refer to it as a debacle, it was the big disagreement I had with Somber and, while it ended with clearer air and a happier, more productive work environment, it wasn't exactly pleasant at the time.

CamoBadger wrote:Of course it wasn't their primary, but I'd think that they would keep a stash of megaspell warheads ready with missiles to deliver them just in case shit did go down and screw over their primary plan of attack.

Eh… I'd disagree there. It seems to me that megaspell facilities are just so much more practical for Equestria that not much would go towards missile development. Sort of like how there aren't really any strategic nuclear cruise missiles any more; they were phased out when the US and USSR developed good enough ballistic tech to eclipse them.

The problem of intercontinental cruise missiles is also that, unless they are hypersonic (like Mach 8-10), between the time you launch them and the time they hit their targets, the enemy would have had time to completely blast your own territories if he's using ICBMs.

Right.  But with Equestria's cast megaspells, they'd have time to hit the Pax Roamana even if the PR was using ICBMs.  I don't know how much Equestria'd be able to hit before impact (not knowing their recharge time or just how many there are), but Roam, at least, would be wiped off the map, and most Equestrian megaspell facilities would probably survive the missile bombardment and keep firing. ICBMs would be faster, but that speed gain does nothing for the PR. ICBMs would also be easier to intercept; a warhead in a ballistic trajectory is predictable, can't dodge, and has clear lines of sight to both local orbit and many locations on the ground. A cruise missile can dodge, make random turns, etc., and, even though you could hit it with conventional weapons, gives much smaller and more difficult targeting windows.

In short, by the time either type of missile arrives, the Pax Roamana is being blasted to bits, and a cruise missile is more likely to arrive.
(Though, once the SPP was fully functional... Well, PH talking about how Equestria's defenses were dramatically improving is one of things I take from it. There's a reason why the Final Assault was launched when it was.)