[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Why Appleloosa's position bugs me : because it seems really too close from Ponyville when you take into account how long the Mane 6 needed to get there by train.

Though you could always say that the longest part (temporally) was done with the ponies drawing the locomotive, which explain why it took so long relative to the distance.

But this still seem like an awkward rationalization to me.

There's a lot about that episode that I tend to ignore. Basically your strategy, actually, if I remember correctly.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Differences in latitude calculations :

Well, I was too lazy to do a real calculation of the earth's circumference and of how many kilometers represent how many degrees of longitude / latitude ;

So I just took a map (google maps in this case) and did a quick vizual estimation.

Seems like I fell around 1000km short of your own calculations.

Ah, I see. Well, if it was just a quick visual estimation, no offense, but mine's probably right here (not necessarily, but it does seem more likely that calculations and measurements would produce the correct number than simply eyeballing it).

Agreement on both accounts on my part.

I'll see tonight if I have the motivation of doing real calculations regarding the latitude of Equestria.


As for the idea that equestria (as in the planet) doesn't rotate on itself... I'll have to think about the possible influence it could have on the climate, especially in the middle of large landmasses like Zebrica.

O. Hinds wrote:According to my measurements and calculations, the northern edge of the peninsula would be at about the latitude of Brittany

Would that be the latitude of Hoofington (roughly), or the northernmost bits of the Northen Islands ?

Harmony Ltd. wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:According to my measurements and calculations, the northern edge of the peninsula would be at about the latitude of Brittany

Would that be the latitude of Hoofington (roughly), or the northernmost bits of the Northen Islands ?

The northernmost bits of the northern islands, roughly. And I've just gotten agreement from a different method used on a different map. Hoofington, by my calculations, would be at about 47 degrees north.

A possibly important bit of reflection on equestria (the planet) :

If the planet doesn't rotate on itself, then it's the sun that rotate around it. And after a quick visualization of the configuration of the situation in my head, unless Celestia took on herself to vary the degree of inclination of the sun's orbit depending on the time of the year [1], then the Equator would also be the planet's only Tropic (zone of maximal solar exposition), and there wouldn't be seasons as we know them on equestria. Which in a way could explain why the ponies "manually" set up the seasons themselves.

But that raises the question of how that would affect life outside of Equestria (the peninsula), in zones where the climate isn't magically altered by sentient species.


[1] : if that doesn't matter in Pre-War times, this matter after the Apocalypse, as the sudden disappearance of the Princesses might have possibly caused a MAJOR change in the global climate.


Random bit =>

Ponies in space, master of Terraformation : they already have thousands of years of experience with that on their home planet.

After this shower I'm about to have, I think I'll put up the setting & history for Coltchester. Mentioning it now so I remember to do it and don't go 'meh, CBA now.'

Right, I'll break this down into two posts because while I was originally going to put everything into this one big post, I've lost my motivation to continue now and I wanna play some KSP or something.

So, when I do finish it off, there's three things I will focus on:
-Location, environment and surroundings, which will be a short segment.
-Before and during the war which will probably be the same length as the first topic, and finally...
-Post apocalypse, changes and new management.

Location, environment and surroundings.

Coltchester is located in the south-east of Equestria, along the ridges of the badlands and near the coast of the sea. Great plains and rocky mountains are the name of the game if you head to the west of the city while the sandy beaches reside to the east.
The fact that Coltchester sits between these two means that the land here was very fertile, being a great plain and all.

So the land around Coltchester is fertile, the west / north-west is rocky mountains. The proximity to the sea (while not directly on the coast) allows for trade with other nations via ships.

To the south of the city is a surprising deposit of coal, due to both the mountains and the ocean nearby. The deposit of coal here isn't so large that it could supply even a twentieth of Equestria's need during the height of coal usage but it's still large enough to have been of some importance to the empire. (As all coal is, given the need for it and the fact it was in sovereign territory.)

Aside from this, the city had no other notable resource stockpiles. The mountains would have contained some fair amount of iron and even coal, but that's more to do with the badlands than Coltchester and so the closest link it has to any of that would either be between Four Ridges or commuting workers who would live in Coltchester and travel to the mountains for the work. Coltchester had the small mine, but no grand end all be all.
-((I wanted Coltchester to be important without being too important, if you catch my drift? It's a city, it's got to have some reason for becoming as big as it is but at the same time it's a completely original content city in that respect, so there's no point in trying to make it out as some big hub of everything when that would raise major questions of why it was never mentioned in the original.))-

Before the war
The origins of Coltchester begin with the great plains. Because the land was fertile it was deemed a good place to begin a new settlement and the fact it's quite some distance away from Canterlot are why it ended up becoming such a large settlement, in part.
You see, in terms of large settlements in the south-east part of Equestria, beyond the mountains of the badlands, there isn't any other major settlements ((aside from New Oatleans, if I remember the geography correctly... I'm probably wrong though.))
Anyway, for the whole region, Coltchester became the beacon of what being a pony was all about.

The city started off as just a few farmers working together, but as more ponies came along there began to be construction efforts to build the settlement. Soon enough, more ponies came and more homes were needed until it became a town. With the fact that the coastline was nearby, even more ponies came to Coltchester to stay so they could live in the city but easily go out for a day trip to the beach to relax and forget about their troubles. The beach town soon became a hotspot for visitors both domestic and non domestic alike. A port was soon made and trade was brought to Coltchester, encouraging further growth.

When the industrial revolution hit Equestria, trade continued to blossom for Coltchester and industry quickly grew rampantly in the city. Being so far away from the likes of Fillydelphia meant that there was no massive industrial production nearby for the local population and wealthy business owners quickly saw the potential in being the first ones to change that.
With the natural resources and trade capabilities of the city, along with the farming community that had lingered on the outskirts of the city, the city fared well.

With such a prosperous city growing non stop, there came a need for more ponies to move there. And hell, did they ever. It wasn't long before districts were carved into the city with high class areas that held a lot of shopping options, hotels, parks and high class entertainment appeared in the more pleasant part of the city that, on a clear day, could see over the horizon and to the sea view.
At the same time, another area ((much like the real world 'projects' of America)) came along for the low income earners on the western side of the city, between the farms and the mines.

This allowed the high wealth members of society to live in Coltchester much like the low wealth citizenry did, but kept the two ends of the social ladder away from one another when it came to residential properties, allowing the high class homes to remain high in price and keep the low class homes low in building costs (relatively).

This wasn't to segregate the two ends however. Low wealth ponies were always welcomed to the higher class areas if they had the money to spend and as long as they weren't vagrants or trouble makers. ((Think of it like New York.))

There was of course also the mid wealth ponies who moved into Coltchester, but I don't think there's much to say about them. They would have likely been the ones who worked in the jobs that required higher education levels, like technical industries involving robots or perhaps in the high class shops and all these types of things.

Each 'district' (poor, mid and high wealth) had it's shops, entertainment, facilities and so on. The poor would share schools with the mid level education while the higher wealth would have had a school for their own, perhaps. I've not given too much thought to the smaller details like that because it's not been relevant to Broken Bonds so far, but for something like this it's an interesting thing to note.


So yeah, that explains pre-war how the city began, how it expanded, why it expanded and a small part of the layout.
For anyone interested, the specific layout follows something of this pattern:


It's not 100% accurate because it's just something I put together to explain how it would all go together, but the layout follows something of that pattern.

I really ought to not be so lazy, but I am. Eughh... that taking me forever to write up just makes me want to not do it right now.

Quick questions :

Roughly speaking, what's the size of the city, both in term of population numbers Pre-War and during the War, and in term of land area ?

Also, how far is it from the coast, and how populated / dynamic was the coastal city ?


Would it be possible for you to take Hinds' map, open Gimp and place Coltchester on it just so we have a rough idea ? Not forcing you, just asking if you mind doing it.

That would take editing his map to be larger, but I could indeed do it.
Looking at his map... it'd be off to the south of where it ends, but not by a huge chunk. Just a little further south.

Population numbers pre war... ooooh, give me a minute. Hm.
Seeing as it's based off the town where I grew up, I'm going to give you something roughly around the same number as that, so estimated around... 100,000.

So, in terms of a city it's actually quite small if we compare it to say, Manchester, which as a true city, holds roughly 500,000 or the closest city to me (which also happens to be the newest in the UK) ...which surprisingly also has 100,000.

So yeah, if I'm going to say it's as large as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchester">Colchester</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelmsford">Chelmsford</a> in terms of population and the same as Colchester for area... oh damn I'm shit with these things...

Google maps says it's about 5 miles wide and it's approximately the same long, but my brain is just refusing to do any math in what that would equate to in terms of landmass squared. Twenty five miles squared? If I remember correctly, you take the x and multiply with the y to get your answer if you consider it a perfect square.

As for Coltchester though, because I'm absolutely awful at all of this I'm just going to say that it's probably about the same 5x5 but then you've got that gap in the eastern part that reduces the total landmass from the nice square to a C shape.

Distance from the coast... 7.5 miles sounds something that makes it reasonable. If Dover to Calais is roughly 20 miles distance and you're capable of seeing the coast of each country on a clear, optimal day - then 7.5 doesn't sound unreasonable if you've got a nice day and you're up at the top of a hotel or something looking in that direction.
Of course you won't see the small details, but you'd definitely see the landscape of the ocean at that kind've distance.

As for the size of the coastal settlement... with trade, it would've become a proper town, but a small town at best. 10,000 ponies perhaps... 1 mile in diameter. Sounds reasonable, right?
It'd be one of those places where you have a dock/port area and you have a "commercial" beach area but there wouldn't be all too many businesses aside from a seaside hotel, ports (as mentioned) and other small things of the like.

As for the dynamics of this town, it would rely purely on tourism and trade to stay afloat as a settlement. A few small businesses would start up there, but it would be your very typical small seaside town type thing.



During the war however, everything would change. What was once a quiet but often used port would quickly be commissioned as a makeshift naval base for smaller vessels of the Royal Navy.
This town (one I have yet to name) would become an outpost for the Equestrian military given the fact it's on the coast and thus liable to attack from Zebra forces.

The citizenry would be mostly leaving to less militarised locations, some moving to Coltchester while others would go to Coltshire, another small town to the west of Coltchester. The move would see Coltshire grow to the size it becomes in Broken Bonds - which again, isn't a huge settlement but it would still be considered safe haven compared to a strategic target.

Coltchester would see such changes too, though most of the citizens there would choose to stay where they are. Living in a city means you're a target, but with the Equestrian effort to quickly change casual government buildings into military complexes and quickly develop and build more complexes over the city would make them feel safer.
Many would join the war effort immediately, either enlisting into the armed forces or by working in factories which would sooner or later change production from everyday goods to war necessities.

The low wealth area would see a military base set up roughly in the middle of it all as a medical bunker to keep any wounded personnel and citizens immediate, safe treatment away from possible ground attacks.
The choice to build the bunker under the low wealth district is for multiple reasons:


-The majority of the citizens live in low wealth housing. If anyone is going to be hurt, it's likely to be those who live in the most concentrated area and that was the most concentrated area for residential districts in the city.

-The high and mid wealth residential areas have a pre-existing hospital located nearby, meaning that building an underground counterpart in the vicinity would not only cost a lot of bits, resources and time, but also possibly be protested by any of the nobility living in the area.

-With the proximity to both the quarries and the industrial area, the location chosen was deemed the most appropriate place that it could be built. Any industrial or mining accidents or incidents would be able to quickly be attended to.



The farms would have remains the same throughout the war, much like the mines/quarries would have been too. The population of the city would have averaged to about the same, with some citizens moving away from the risk while military personnel would have been shipped in from mainland Equestria to bolster the defences of the southern region.



So yeah. Still needing to go into proper detail on things and I will do that, and I will also edit the map to show you where my vision of Coltchester would sit. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and if you want to call me an idiot for anything I've said here, again, feel free.
Might take a while with the replies at this point. Debating when I should go down the shop and grab some food since I'm hungry and have no food at all in my place. hah.

Kippershy wrote:The choice to build the bunker under the low wealth district is for multiple reasons:


-The majority of the citizens live in low wealth housing. If anyone is going to be hurt, it's likely to be those who live in the most concentrated area and that was the most concentrated area for residential districts in the city.

-The high and mid wealth residential areas have a pre-existing hospital located nearby, meaning that building an underground counterpart in the vicinity would not only cost a lot of bits, resources and time, but also possibly be protested by any of the nobility living in the area.

-With the proximity to both the quarries and the industrial area, the location chosen was deemed the most appropriate place that it could be built. Any industrial or mining accidents or incidents would be able to quickly be attended to.

- In case of bombing of a strategic target (=> military hospital), the first casualties would be the poors of the surrounding neighborhood, and not the middle- or upper-class citizens of the more prosperous neighborhoods.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:

Kippershy wrote:The choice to build the bunker under the low wealth district is for multiple reasons:


-The majority of the citizens live in low wealth housing. If anyone is going to be hurt, it's likely to be those who live in the most concentrated area and that was the most concentrated area for residential districts in the city.

-The high and mid wealth residential areas have a pre-existing hospital located nearby, meaning that building an underground counterpart in the vicinity would not only cost a lot of bits, resources and time, but also possibly be protested by any of the nobility living in the area.

-With the proximity to both the quarries and the industrial area, the location chosen was deemed the most appropriate place that it could be built. Any industrial or mining accidents or incidents would be able to quickly be attended to.

- In case of bombing of a strategic target (=> military hospital), the first casualties would be the poors of the surrounding neighborhood, and not the middle- or upper-class citizens of the more prosperous neighborhoods.

Yet another hidden agenda.

Ah, sweet, sweet Equestria. Land of Kindness and Generosity.

Soldier-Portable Anti-Armor Gun, Model 24


The SPAAG-24 (nickname "Longspear"), Army Inventory Designation (AID) 1K24, designed as part of the 4th Five Year Plan's Defense Orientations, and one of the first truly independent and innovative development of the NCR's military-industrial complex, is an anti-armor gun designed to give individual soldiers the capability to fight and defeat lightly- to medium-armored targets such as robots and infantry transport vehicles (such as those fielded by the Alliance).

The originality of the weapon comes from the radically new approach that has been chosen to meet its specifications :

- The weapon system must be under 20 kilograms in weight fully loaded.
- The weapon system must be able to reliably destroy beyond repair Gutsy-grade robots and mission-kill Sentinel-grade robots in 1 shot under standard circumstances at a range of at least 100 meters.
- A soldier must be able to carry at least 10 shots worth of ammunitions for the weapon system without the whole weighing more than 40 kilograms.

Benefiting from the New Canterlot Institute of Technology's and the Twilight Society's advances in the domains of spell matrices and telekinetic talismans, and developing a synergy between both, the gun use the magical energy supplied by a standard spark battery to propel a 10x85mm projectile at a speed of Mach 8 toward its target.

To counter the weapon's heavy recoil, the same kind of telekinetic talismans used to propel the weapon's projectile are used to generate a counter-force in the axis of the barrel, in practice negating any and all recoil. This capability however come at the price of an heavy spark-energy consumption, which has pushed the designers to give the weapon's users the choice between three different settings for the weapon : full recoil compensation, half recoil compensation, and no recoil compensation. This setting can be altered on the fly from the use of a single knob above the gun's safety in standard configuration (hand-grip), or from the embedded command system in mounted configuration (battle-saddle, robot or vehicle).

With a standard magazine containing 10 projectiles, a rate of fire of 35 rounds per minute, and the high level of accuracy offered by the recoil-compensation system, the SPAAG-24 can prove itself to be a deadly foe to all armored targets on the battlefield.

The projectile is full caliber (meaning that it is an aerodynamic cylinder), and rounds are made either of Steel or Tungsten (principally the former for logistical reasons). The original design team also conceived Fin-Stabilized Sabot-Discarding rounds made of depleted uranium and Armor-Penetrating High-Explosive Incendiary rounds, but their increased capabilities and performances, compared to their increased costs on a per-round basis were deemed an unnecessary drain on logistics and so they were never standard-issued to the troops (though they are manufactured as specialist rounds for the Special Forces).

The SPAAG-24 is the first gun in the NCR's inventory to use a kinetic projectile which isn't propelled by either an explosive or compressed air. It is also the first to embed NCR-made arcano-technologic components. Because of its effectiveness against armored targets and high ammunition capabilities -- in the 40 kilograms of the specifications for the weapon system a soldier can carry the 17 kilograms gun and 121 190-grams steel projectiles, although in practices soldiers tend to carry only 6 standard magazines worth of ammo --, the weapon is planned to be issued at the Squad-level at first (one gun for every 21 soldiers) and then at the Fire-Team level (one gun for every 5 soldiers). However, the spell-matrices needed for the weapon's manufacturing represent a production bottleneck and thus far (Fiscal Year 27) only 8 percent of the planned number have been built and issued.

There are also questions about the weapon's vulnerability to spark grenades, although studies are currently being pursued to find means of insulating arcano-technologic hardware against the effects of spark-discharges. Critics however point out that such means would probably only increase the weight, complexity and production costs of the gun, and further complicate its maintenance on the field ; a task already considered to be arduous by the average conscript of the NCR Armed Forces.

Project 86


The Project 86, under direction of the Department of the Army's Directorate of Research and Development, is a program aiming to expand the advances made in the domain of telekinetically-actuated weaponries opened by the succesful development and deployement of the SPAAG-24.

The program is currently overseeing the development of several weapon systems :

Object 141 - A direct line-of-sight anti-tank gun designed to be either pulled by a team of two ponies or mounted on the back of the Junction City Motor Company (JCMC) Truck Model 3.

Object 144 - A long-range artillery piece designed to shoot 152mm (6 inch) shells beyond the horizon (maximal range classified) and designed to be pulled by the JCMC Truck Model 3.

Object 145 - The planned gun for the Project 79 / "Armored Fighting Vehicle" program, details still classified.

Whether the technologies developed in the context of Project 86 will be deployed or remain prototypes is dependent on the success of Project 83 and its efforts to allow the production of spell matrices and spell talismans on an industrial basis.

The JCMC Truck Model 3 is basically this, a retro-engineered version of an Equestrian wartime logistical truck, and the workhorse of the NCR's automotive industry.

Modified to be mounted on bogies it is also used as a locomotive for the NCR's railways, though it has only enough power to pull a few cars at once, depending on their weight and the inclination of the track they are following.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Soldier-Portable Anti-Armor Gun, Model 24

Very nice! It also makes sense that the NCR would be developing guns rather than missiles; in addition to guns being more economical for the NCR, the Alliance has very good antimissile systems.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Project 86


The Project 86, under direction of the Department of the Army's Directorate of Research and Development, is a program aiming to expand the advances made in the domain of telekinetically-actuated weaponries opened by the succesful development and deployement of the SPAAG-24.

The program is currently overseeing the development of several weapon systems :

Object 141 - A direct line-of-sight anti-tank gun designed to be either pulled by a team of two ponies or mounted on the back of the Junction City Motor Company (JCMC) Truck Model 3.

Object 144 - A long-range artillery piece designed to shoot 152mm (6 inch) shells beyond the horizon (maximal range classified) and designed to be pulled by the JCMC Truck Model 3.

Object 145 - The planned gun for the Project 79 / "Armored Fighting Vehicle" program, details still classified.

Whether the technologies developed in the context of Project 86 will be deployed or remain prototypes is dependent on the success of Project 83 and its efforts to allow the production of spell matrices and spell talismans on an industrial basis.

Also quite nice.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:The JCMC Truck Model 3 is basically this, a retro-engineered version of an Equestrian wartime logistical truck, and the workhorse of the NCR's automotive industry.

Modified to be mounted on bogies it is also used as a locomotive for the NCR's railways, though it has only enough power to pull a few cars at once, depending on their weight and the inclination of the track they are following.

It runs on spark batteries, I assume? Alliancelike diesel systems would likely give more range and power, but the NCR wouldn't use them for military applications even if the Alliance was willing to sell them (which it might be, if it could be guaranteed that the fuel would only be coming from the Alliance).

Well, I thought that I'd try my hand at a bit of this myself:
The below vehicles are identified by their hypothetical NCR reporting names (they might also be the Pony Alliance (the Alliance being bilingual) names, but I don't want to worry about that at the moment; using reporting names is much easier… and lets me just make stuff up without my perfectionism hassling me too much), though I'm not sure if the NCR would use reporting names for Alliance tech.

Scalebeam
The Scalebeam is the Alliance's primary fixed-wing transport aircraft, both civilian and military. Fully amphibious, it is tough and versatile, able to be configured for a variety of uses. Its primary weakness is that it sacrificed a rear ramp for its amphibious performance; cargo loading and unloading must be done through side doors, thus reducing the ship's usefullness for paradropping. Military (and most civilian) Scalebeams are equipped with the full suite of available standard Alliance countermeasures, including electronic warfare equipment and small anti-missile beam turrets.
(based on the Be-200)

Arrowhead
The Arrowhead is the Alliance's air superiority fighter; while it can be fitted out for a variety of roles, it is intended to de-adjective and if possible de-noun aerial opponents. It is the Alliance's only full-AI aircraft (as opposed to small drones, which are not true AIs, and standard onboard AIs, which are prohibited from operating the aircraft without a living pilot), giving it acceleration tolerances significantly higher than any other current non-rainbooming flier. The airplane is fitting with control surfaces and thrust vectoring to take advantage of this, and it is both fast (supercruise-capable, though standard Arrowheads are not rainboom-capable; while experiments with rainbooming Arrowheads are ongoing, the system is still not cheap enough for mass production) and extremely maneuverable. Their weapon loadouts are readily swappable, including projectile cannons, beam guns, missiles, bombs, and drones. Arrowheads are capable of being used with a capsule-based ZELL system, though standard Arrowheads still require conventional landing strips; this allows large numbers of Arrowheads to be quickly scrambled into the air.
(based on the X-36)

Skycross
The Skycross is a transport rotodaen principally concerned with moving troops and materiel (though the civilian version of the Skycross is the most common full-size Alliance civilian aircraft). It can also, however, be used as a bomber, a platform from which to fire rockets or missiles (its large size and lifting capacity allow it to, if necessary, air-launch strategic cruise missiles), or a mobile airborne gun battery.
(based on the good old Fairey, though modern Alliance rotodaens use blade vents instead of tipjets and ducted fans instead of open props)

Fourpair
The Fourpair is a combination attack-transport rotodaen. While it has a much smaller carrying capacity than the Skycross, both in volume and mass, the Fourpair is smaller, more maneuverable, and more heavily armored. The transport capacity can, like that of the Skycross, be used in a variety of ways, including missile launchers or extra fuel tanks; the Fourpair is famous, however, for blasting into, out of, and around combat zones while carry small robots or parties of soldiers. Because of this, Fourpairs are also used as VIP transports and hostile environment medical rotodaens.
(based on the Mi-24)

Skyshark
The Skyshark is a fast, highly maneuverable, and well-armored dedicated attack rotodaen; some versions have two seats, but most carry only a single pilot. While less versatile than the Skycross and Fourpair, the Skyshark is very good at what it does, which is scouting, close air support, armored vehicle killing, and light air superiority duties. The Alliance does not have very many Skysharks, due primarily to their mission inflexibility compared to the Fourpair and Skycross, but they can be invaluable where they're needed and used.
(based on the Ka-50 and CFH-29A)

For information, I did a quick back-of-the-envelop calculation regarding the SPAAG-24's performance, and came to the following results :

For a 190-grams projectile propelled at Mach 8 (2,722 m/s), the kinetic energy at the muzzle is 704 kilojoules.

By comparison, a standard 120mm APFSDS tank round has between 9,000 and 12,000 kilojoules of kinetic energy out of the muzzle.

On the other hand, a tank round with its propellant and case weigh something between 15 and 20 kilograms, while a standard steel round for the SPAAG-24 weigh only, as has been stated, 190 grams.

Pound-for-pound of projectile, the two systems deliver around the same amount of kinetic energy on a target, with the SPAAG-24 being far more compact and lightweight, and more flexible with an increased ammo capacity.

Also, regarding Project 86, the following two Objects are under review to determine if the expected gains deserve the cost of research & development :


- Object 142 : An assault rifle platform propelling lightweight rounds at hypersonic speed and high rate-of-fire, with the aim of increasing the ammo carrying capacity of the standard soldier and the volume of fire it can deliver on a target ; with the constraint of logistics in mind.

- Object 143 : Anti-Aircraft Artillery platform, associating the hypersonic velocity of the rounds and an expected high rate-of-fire to deny Alliance aircrafts air-superiority in case of conflict.


The problem with Object 142 is that the NCR's military-industrial complex has already difficulties providing the quantity and quality of spell matrices and talismans needed for the SPAAG-24 to be fully issued and deployed, let alone to develop a new standard issue assault-rifle platform requiring miniaturized versions of the same components in greater numbers. There is also the issue that what may be gained by using lightweight, propellant-less ammunitions, might be offset by the consumption of spark-batteries at an heavy rate.

Concerning Object 143, the trouble lie in two aspects : aiming the guns to have enough accuracy to hit the Alliance's aircrafts, which is no trivial matter in itself and require the development of optronics, radars and computerized fire-control technologies ; and that the likelihood of a conflict with the Alliance is judged to be low at the present time, encouraging the NCR to allocate resources on the other Objects of the program instead.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:For a 190-grams projectile propelled at Mach 8 (2,722 m/s), the kinetic energy at the muzzle is 704 kilojoules.

By comparison, a .50 BMG round has a kinetic energy of 18,160 joules (or 18.2 kilojoules) according to Wikipedia.

Which mean the SPAAG-24, for a slightly higher weight, fire shots 38 times more powerful than the Barret M82, with a longer effective range, increased accuracy due to the recoil-compensation system, and with individual projectiles being only around 60% heavier.

O. Hinds wrote:

Harmony Ltd. wrote:The JCMC Truck Model 3 is basically this, a retro-engineered version of an Equestrian wartime logistical truck, and the workhorse of the NCR's automotive industry.

Modified to be mounted on bogies it is also used as a locomotive for the NCR's railways, though it has only enough power to pull a few cars at once, depending on their weight and the inclination of the track they are following.

It runs on spark batteries, I assume? Alliancelike diesel systems would likely give more range and power, but the NCR wouldn't use them for military applications even if the Alliance was willing to sell them (which it might be, if it could be guaranteed that the fuel would only be coming from the Alliance).

I was thinking that it would rather be using some sort of crude internal combustion engine, designed to run on a variety of chemical fuels (ethanol, oil-derived products, or combustible gases [like gasified charcoal or wood]). Of course, the power it would develop would be limited, and fuel itself would still be somewhat scarce : the NCR's agricultural sector has very high yields, but most of its production is still destined to feed the population.


The NCR's ability to produce and reload spark batteries, if decent for a post-apocalyptic power, is still limited and force it to restrict their usage.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:I was thinking that it would rather be using some sort of crude internal combustion engine, designed to run on a variety of chemical fuels (ethanol, oil-derived products, or combustible gases [like gasified charcoal or wood]). Of course, the power it would develop would be limited, and fuel itself would still be somewhat scarce : the NCR's agricultural sector has very high yields, but most of its production is still destined to feed the population.

Hm, interesting. I have some vague headcanon of an NCR pony named Boomcan (and the name is pretty much all I have, so feel free to fill things in) who started the NCR producing internal combustion engines. Of course, those were intended to run on NEROC or CP petrodiesel. Taking the route that you're proposing, interestingly, would set the NCR on the path of using predominantly spark ignition engines. That's not quite as convenient for trade, since the Alliance and the factions it exported to use predominant compression ignition engines for their reciprocating internal combustion engine needs, but NEROC and CP both could still supply gasoline (and, particularly in the case of NEROC and its allies, try to promote compression ignition instead).

How long are you thinking it took for the NCR to develop their first working engine system (here meaning everything starting with what seeds to plant and ending with a turning driveshaft)?

Oh, Hinds, you don't mind if I mess around with your map to give an approximation of where Coltchester and Four Ridges sits, do you?

Kippershy wrote:Oh, Hinds, you don't mind if I mess around with your map to give an approximation of where Coltchester and Four Ridges sits, do you?

Nope, just as long as you don't claim that I made the modifications or something.

Course I wouldn't. I don't intend to post it anywhere but this thread anyway.

@ Kipper : Well, technically, you could consider it's Silentcarto's, so...


As for your question about a timeframe, Hinds...

Well, for starters, it would only start after the end of the Bitter War, as before that there just wasn't the resources to start putting together an automotive industry. Everything was going into building more guns, more munitions, and generally working for the survival of the various communities making up the NCR.

During the Bitter War itself, the most advanced non-spark energy sources would have been steam boilers burning pretty much all they could find. Pretty crude stuff - think something that could be made by a blacksmith with relatively modern tools and recycled materials.

The first contact of the NCR with internal combustion engines would have probably come from interactions with the Alliance, the NCR buying from them a number of diesel vehicles, or buying them from third parties (Porca-Porca ?) ; and of course taking a few of them apart to start retro-engineering efforts - let's not forget a large part of the NCR's scientists and engineers are descended from the Applejack Rangers.

The motivation to build an internal combustion engine would have come from the desire to be able to miniaturize engines in order to be able to mount them on land vehicles which could travel the infrastructure-devoid territories of the NCR : what hadn't been destroyed during the holocaust having fallen into disrepair after two centuries of neglect. And steam boilers are not suitable for such use, unless you intend to build literal landships.

As for the specifics of how it happened and how long it took, I'll have to think about it. But the idea behind the fuel infrastructure would probably be : "let's use all the scraps of our agriculture and turn it into fuel somehow". So probably no cultures dedicated to fuel production itself - apart maybe from some rapid-growth forests for heating wood.



Note : I think at this point it's good to say, if I hadn't said it before, that if the NCR's agriculture is very productive per surface of cultivated area, it is also very labor intensive, and by its very nature cannot be mechanized as it is the innate magic of earth ponies which allow such high outputs without use of artificial fertilizers or pesticides. You could see it as a weakness, but on the other hand, it also mean that there is a ready supply of jobs for low-skilled workers, and that the food supply isn't dependent on any other industry.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:The first contact of the NCR with internal combustion engines would have probably come from interactions with the Alliance, the NCR buying from them a number of diesel vehicles, or buying them from third parties (Porca-Porca ?

Aye, Equestria didn't really have an internal combustion tradition; they went straight from external combustion to electricity/magic.

I don't think it's too likely that Porca Porca would have diesel engines at that time, though; it's just not worth it to the Alliance to ship fuel over to them… though, hm… then again, maybe they're still using engines that they bought from the Pax Roamana (built to last!) fueled with homemade biodiesel (the production process for which was also acquired from the PR)? Interesting idea.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:and of course taking a few of them apart to start retro-engineering efforts - let's not forget a large part of the NCR's scientists and engineers are descended from the Applejack Rangers.

Good luck; a big part of what makes the modern Alliance engines run so well is the control computer, and that's going to wipe itself as soon as it detects tampering. Another big part is the materials used and the quality of the construction.

I was more thinking that the NCR would start working with all-mechanical four-stroke diesels. Though this was when I was assuming that they were relying on imported fuel; if they're using spark ignition engines running on wood gas, ethanol, etch, I'm not sure what they'd start with (possibly two-stroke).

Harmony Ltd. wrote:The motivation to build an internal combustion engine would have come from the desire to be able to miniaturize engines in order to be able to mount them on land vehicles which could travel the infrastructure-devoid territories of the NCR : what hadn't been destroyed during the holocaust having fallen into disrepair after two centuries of neglect. And steam boilers are not suitable for such use, unless you intend to build literal landships.

Oh, the Alliance can sell them small engines. Just the other day I was pondering up a nice four-cylinder two-stroke boxer in a sealed case; you put in fuel, cool coolant, ambient air, and control input, you get out electricity, exhaust, and hot coolant. The Alliance can sell them vehicles, too; the Alliance has, after all, been expanding out into the wilds of Zebrica, and equipment designed for that will have a relatively easy time on the peninsula. The Alliance can sell them computers and ARCANN units. Of course, all of this comes at a price… :)

The NCR never tried making small steam engines, though? Something like a Doble engine?

Harmony Ltd. wrote:As for the specifics of how it happened and how long it took, I'll have to think about it. But the idea behind the fuel infrastructure would probably be : "let's use all the scraps of our agriculture and turn it into fuel somehow". So probably no cultures dedicated to fuel production itself - apart maybe from some rapid-growth forests for heating wood.

So, starting with biological waste. The obvious fuel is alcohol; fermentation is easy and will work on pretty much anything. Alcohol, though, while it works fine for steam engines, is tricky to make work in reciprocating internal combustion engines (and I doubt that the NCR is in any condition to make gas turbines).

Next, biodiesel; with the right processes, its materials are also widely available, and there's already a long tradition of compression ignition engines in the world if not actually in Equestria. The trick, though, is having those processes, and, well, it's not ponies who are the famous alchemists and bioengineers (If we go with Porca Porca having biodiesel tech, the NCR might be able to get it from them; it's quite possible, though, that whatever method they have relies on specific, non-waste sources).

Next and more promising are gaseous fuels feeding spark ignition engines. In addition to wood gas, the NCR might capture methane from decomposing organic waste, compress it, and use it as fuel. I think that this might be their best bet, at least in the short term. In the long term… well, recall those projections I wrote for what might happen if the Alliance seemed to be losing the economic war. I can imagine the NCR using gas-fueled spark-ignition engines for its military while allowing its civilians to buy Alliance-made (or domestic, once that starts up) compression ignition engines fueled by NEROC or CP.

The NCR never tried making small steam engines, though? Something like a Doble engine?

Holy shitting Christ Batman !

Scratch internal combustion engines for the NCR, that's the perfect logical development for its automotive industry !

The cold-start problematic (which isn't really one with heating-up times of only 90 seconds, unless you're on the battlefield...) can be easily fixed with a limited application of Magical Spark Energy (a heating talisman) to allow if necessary the same kind of starting speed of a conventional IC engine.

Good Gawd. It's perfect. Thanks for linking me to that !


So, sure, the vehicles will be heavier, and the JCMC Truck Model 3 would more likely be a "Model 6" (=> for weighing 5 or 6 metric tons), but with that kind of torque and potentially a gearbox to better deal with driving off-road, and maybe by replacing the rear wheels with tracks to make it a half-track... Okay, more like 8-10 metric tons, but far sturdier and with a better autonomy / range and easier to maintain due to a less complex mechanism.

YES ! Steam power FTW !

(I mean, only from an aesthetic point of view... Steam powered cars, dagnabit ! It's just perfect !)