[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

I completely forgot about that Coyotl tidbit. On the risk of retreading old ground, the massive number of the Brood means that they were either constructed before the war (on Equestrian soil) or made from something with serious industrial firepower. I... struggle to remember, Viti found them in a bunker inside or outside the Hoofington valley? Because if it was inside, it is unlikely that he was able to access this Brood without Cogs at least knowing it and I've assumed these two were at odds.

Coyotl, the coyote. It's got to be a trickster, unless this is a red herring. The only trickster I can think of would be Discord. He's certainly playing his cards close enough to his chest to be literally anywhere right now, but I really can't imagine him having much to do with the Brood. Heh, maybe Boo actually is Coyotl and shields her mind from him... probably not. Goldenblood's a trickster... but that's just too obvious. Did anyone figure this stuff out already? I'm not great at these puzzles.

SilentCarto wrote: E-fields seem to sort of bubble up in apparently random locations that change with time.

I don't remember this. What places changed?

I still think Discord left a part of himself inside Boo.

Meleagridis wrote:Did anyone figure this stuff out already? I'm not great at these puzzles.

Not really. We don't really know what the Zebras think of Coyotl, anyway, so it's hard to tell whether that's a respectful name or not. From what Lancer told us in chapter 59, it sounds like Four Star had been stowing Brood in little vaults all over the place. No idea how they got the Steelpony components, but they're definitely from the War. I wonder if the Brood who attacked Twist and Shujaa weren't under Zebra command at all, but working directly for Four Star...

It's possible that Four Star stole the cybernetic parts, shipped them to Dawn Bay, then brough back the resulting Brood zebras. But the scale of the Brood seems to suggest a full manufacturing facility, and that suggests that Cog was a traitor herself.

...or... maybe not. What if Cog had the Brood built as infiltrators? Grab not-quite-corpses from the battlefield, cyber 'em up, force them to obey whatever commands they're given, then release them back into Zebra territory... which suggests that Cog was the one who didn't want Shujaa to help the First Legion defect.

Holy crap. Hang on. We've been assuming that anything striped was working for the zebras unless they explicitly defected. That wasn't the case for ponies, why should it be for zebras? The Starkatteri joined the war, but were given back-line duties because nobody trusted them. And maybe they were right not to trust them. What happens when a Starkatteri returns to their ancient capital and meets Nightmare Moon, the Maiden of the Stars?

On the other hoof, we have every reason to think Vitiosus was Goldenblood's opposite number, fighting their own secret war whose lines of battle and alliance didn't necessarily coincide with the pony/zebra battle lines.  Secrets and lies, secrets and lies...

Meleagridis wrote:

SilentCarto wrote: E-fields seem to sort of bubble up in apparently random locations that change with time.

I don't remember this. What places changed?

Ummm.... good question, actually. I had the impression that that's why they can't just stake out E-fields with red flags and avoid them. Maybe it was Word of God in reponse to someone asking why they didn't do just that...

I want to retract a bit of what I said before, by the way. Much of Hoofington is covered in a weak E-field -- not enough that you'd notice, but enough to gradually degrade potions and make it harder to recover from illness or injury. That's what makes places like Chapel special -- Harpica had a 200-year old healing potion in the manor, and it was still at full strength.

Project Steelpony is only half of the equation, though. The Brood is also half flesh. I think they're zebra-patterned blanks that are given cybernetic implants both to allow them to fight as soldiers and enhance their combat capabilities. As to how someone combined Project Chimera and Project Steelpony in secret, I don't know.

Derpmind wrote:Project Steelpony is only half of the equation, though. The Brood is also half flesh. I think they're zebra-patterned blanks that are given cybernetic implants both to allow them to fight as soldiers and enhance their combat capabilities. As to how someone combined Project Chimera and Project Steelpony in secret, I don't know.

Maybe Trueblood was offered a deal by zebra insurgents? He was pretty obsessive about Chimera, they might have promised him the project if he made them zebras. Steelpony was probably stolen by insurgents or possibly Four Stars. Vito probably found info on the Brood from whatever vault he pulled them out of.

swicked wrote:Chapel has a Stable. Have there been Stables or Stable-tech facilities in proximity to e-fields?

Not to my knowledge, unless you count Flank's stable 89.

SilentCarto wrote:We don't really know what the Zebras think of Coyotl, anyway, so it's hard to tell whether that's a respectful name or not. From what Lancer told us in chapter 59, it sounds like Four Star had been stowing Brood in little vaults all over the place. No idea how they got the Steelpony components, but they're definitely from the War. I wonder if the Brood who attacked Twist and Shujaa weren't under Zebra command at all, but working directly for Four Star...
...or... maybe not. What if Cog had the Brood built as infiltrators? Grab not-quite-corpses from the battlefield, cyber 'em up, force them to obey whatever commands they're given, then release them back into Zebra territory... which suggests that Cog was the one who didn't want Shujaa to help the First Legion defect.

This sounds very possible. It's not like she'd have qualms about it. The only problem I see is this: the Brood is completely silent and obedient. If she has used this technique to great effect in the past, why is her new Brood chatty and prone to WEAKNESS! when they would be better off as drones? In fact, the infiltrators could have better used this limited freedom of expression to blend in. Silent cyborgs would have little to fall back on if they were sighted in zebra territory.

By going off the name (Coyotl=Coyote=Trickster Archetype=Stars, unless I can find evidence to the contrary) I'd say that the zebra opinion of whatever Coyotl is would probably be pretty low. Lower still if this Coyotl is actually a thinking thing responsible for the Brood and not just the name of some secret project. But it is just guesswork until we have some clue as to what Coyotl means in the context of the story.

And if Viti and Goldenblood really are parallels, then I wonder what this chessmaster could be thinking to even the odds against the [Legate Spoiler].

swicked wrote:...you know what? I just remembered I have editor chat knowledge on this. Maybe.
No more speculation for me :(

 
Maybe ask Hinds how he joins the speculation without spoiling anything?

Meleagridis wrote:Maybe ask Hinds how he joins the speculation without spoiling anything?

I just don't say things about certain things, and occasionally I'll say things which are technically true but misleading to cover the fact that I'm not actually saying anything.

I'm not entirely sure what editor knowledge swicked is referring to here, though; I don't recall such a conversation on Enervation. Though we don't do everything together; perhaps the conversation took place while I was not present.

Huh. Well, thanks for the information.

Meleagridis wrote:The only problem I see is this: the Brood is completely silent and obedient. If she has used this technique to great effect in the past, why is her new Brood chatty and prone to WEAKNESS! when they would be better off as drones? In fact, the infiltrators could have better used this limited freedom of expression to blend in. Silent cyborgs would have little to fall back on if they were sighted in zebra territory.

The Brood are probably under complete control at all times -- basically meat robots. Lighthooves' forces, on the other hand, are volunteers. They may be helping Cog's ends, but... well, I certainly wouldn't jump into a cyborg machine if the last guy come out as a mute automaton.

which might be the only thing that would stop me from jumping in the cyborg machine

Meleagridis wrote:By going off the name (Coyotl=Coyote=Trickster Archetype=Stars, unless I can find evidence to the contrary) I'd say that the zebra opinion of whatever Coyotl is would probably be pretty low. Lower still if this Coyotl is actually a thinking thing responsible for the Brood and not just the name of some secret project. But it is just guesswork until we have some clue as to what Coyotl means in the context of the story.

The trickster archetype rarely has much to do with stars, honestly. It seems to me that tricksters should figure strongly in the Mendi stories of silly zebras. Perhaps the Brood is a cultural reference, like calling someone Hercules or Icarus. Maybe there's a well-known story of a zebra that traded his wits for strength, or something. Or maybe Coyotl was not a mythological figure, but a real person -- say, a zebra who enslaved others by the use of alchemy and drugs, like the zombies of voodoo legend.

SilentCarto wrote:The Brood are probably under complete control at all times -- basically meat robots. Lighthooves' forces, on the other hand, are volunteers. They may be helping Cog's ends, but... well, I certainly wouldn't jump into a cyborg machine if the last guy come out as a mute automaton.

Which makes me think that, if Cogs is involved at all, Dawn is likely there to handle... everything. Even crazy, she seems much better suited for all things talky. She wasn't picked to be the First Mate because of inherent combat prowess, I don't think. And it would be fitting that even after being filtered through a mad machine, even after possible taint from who-knows-what Hoofington sources, even after 200 years of isolation inside a sanctioned security system... Luna's biggest weakness is still being painfully socially awkward.

And a big red 'purge' button that may or may not exist.

You know, I'm trying real hard to remember the last time Blackjack talked a villain to death. I know she's tried, and I can't shake the feeling that it's happened. But I can't call to mind any full-blown President Eden/Saren-Sovereign moment. With this unexpected weakness, I'd think that Cogs would be a prime candidate if it hasn't happened already.

SilentCarto wrote: Perhaps the Brood is a cultural reference, like calling someone Hercules or Icarus. Maybe there's a well-known story of a zebra that traded his wits for strength, or something. Or maybe Coyotl was not a mythological figure, but a real person -- say, a zebra who enslaved others by the use of alchemy and drugs, like the zombies of voodoo legend.

This is what I believe for now. It's just a name, albeit a potentially important one. Project Chimera didn't make lions with goat heads and live snakes for tails (despite that being perfectly possible in the setting) but the name was still an important hint. Coyote is all I've got to go on, and the famous mythical trickster is the only conclusion I can draw. I remember Discord being named 'Trickster of the Stars' or somesuch, so I just kind of jumped from there.

swicked wrote:Any more 4 words 15 letters predictions?
I have "enemy of our enemy", given lighthooves is threatening mass murder while Hoarfrost is already carrying it out, but it didn't seem like the sort of thing Rampage would declare love over, so maybe "I ride the missile"?

What makes everyone think it's written in english? Here's a few guesses:

Per ardua ad astra. Ius primae noctis. Ingen rök utan eld. tay'taHbe' 'Iw bIQ je.

Derpmind wrote:

swicked wrote:Any more 4 words 15 letters predictions?
I have "enemy of our enemy", given lighthooves is threatening mass murder while Hoarfrost is already carrying it out, but it didn't seem like the sort of thing Rampage would declare love over, so maybe "I ride the missile"?

What makes everyone think it's written in english? Here's a few guesses:

Per ardua ad astra. Ius primae noctis. Ingen rök utan eld. tay'taHbe' 'Iw bIQ je.

Alternately, of course, it could just be "Fuck ALL your shit", or the classic "Time to die, fucker." 

Holy crap, the new episode of pony can...

Spoiler:

Caoimhe wrote:Holy crap, the new episode of pony can...

Spoiler:

That is if we still care about show canon influencing FO:E, considering the season 2 finale screwed up FO:E canon majorly, and same with the season 3 opener, while the season 3 finale sunk it. Though lets not start this debate again...

That's all true of course, but this isn't something canon-breaking. In fact it adds to the mythos in an interesting way, given that FoE "did it first" in a way.

But isn't that unconfirmed? If I remember correctly that was from the pegasus perspective. In hearth's warming eve they claimed unicorns were capable of moving the sun and moon and I think Pip at somepoint recieves a perk that says something along the lines of being able to move the sun and moon. Of course it was probably just exaggerating but as far the pegasi know there could be just some unicorn in the wasteland doing their best to move these things around the occasional screwups coming from being unable to see the sky.

In PH it may be project horizons moves the things around in the princess' place. I don't know just think if you're talking about canon breaking you don't need to look further than Twilight's wings.

Are you sure it was all and not a group? I don't remember a scene that says or shows that, could be faulty memory on my part.

I've seen the scene and from what I can tell it's up to viewer interpretation. I say a group can accomplish it you say the entire unicorn race is needed. It only says 'unicorns'.

Yeah, I feel you. clearly the clothing and jewelery just appeared out of nowhere along with the armor and weaponry. It be ridiculous to suggest they came from anywhere other then dropping miraculously from the heavens. Buildings probably did that as well and also never required repair. That way the races could delegate every member to one task the one your race was best suited for.

swicked wrote:Any more 4 words 15 letters predictions?
I have "enemy of our enemy", given lighthooves is threatening mass murder while Hoarfrost is already carrying it out, but it didn't seem like the sort of thing Rampage would declare love over, so maybe "I ride the missile"?

Let me see... fifteen letters, clue is "Take away what they're fighting over"...
"Take the tower out"?
"Shut off the power"?

Editing (Ch. 55):

SilentCarto wrote:

swicked wrote:Any more 4 words 15 letters predictions?
I have "enemy of our enemy", given lighthooves is threatening mass murder while Hoarfrost is already carrying it out, but it didn't seem like the sort of thing Rampage would declare love over, so maybe "I ride the missile"?

Let me see... fifteen letters, clue is "Take away what they're fighting over"...
"Take the tower out"?
"Shut off the power"?

Editing (Ch. 55):

Ah, thank you.

Sooo... is brushing happening this weekend? Should I plan to keep my evening free?

No.  I'm sorry.  I'm a complete mess right now.  Work isn't working out.  Money is tight.  Thanksgiving is coming up.  Horizons is creeping along at a paragraph an hour and my head is just not in the game.  I'm constantly fighting 'checking out' feelings and I don't know how to make them stop.  I have NO idea what's holding up my job at this point, but the temp work isn't coming close to paying the bills as they're all minimum wage.  I wish I could say that there was the second half this weekend, but there isn't.  And due to the holidays, there might not be one next weekend either.

Sorry.

Somber wrote:No.  I'm sorry.  I'm a complete mess right now.  Work isn't working out.  Money is tight.  Thanksgiving is coming up.  Horizons is creeping along at a paragraph an hour and my head is just not in the game.  I'm constantly fighting 'checking out' feelings and I don't know how to make them stop.  I have NO idea what's holding up my job at this point, but the temp work isn't coming close to paying the bills as they're all minimum wage.  I wish I could say that there was the second half this weekend, but there isn't.  And due to the holidays, there might not be one next weekend either.

Sorry.

No worries, man. Life comes first. And the holidays get crazy for everybody, in a few weeks I might be struggling to find time to read...  

Somber wrote:No.  I'm sorry.  I'm a complete mess right now.  Work isn't working out.  Money is tight.  Thanksgiving is coming up.  Horizons is creeping along at a paragraph an hour and my head is just not in the game.  I'm constantly fighting 'checking out' feelings and I don't know how to make them stop.  I have NO idea what's holding up my job at this point, but the temp work isn't coming close to paying the bills as they're all minimum wage.  I wish I could say that there was the second half this weekend, but there isn't.  And due to the holidays, there might not be one next weekend either.

Sorry.

I really hope "checking out" is not meaning what I think it is. You've got a lot to live for if it is though. I've been there and a friend of mine is there now so I really hope you don't go with it. Again I wish you good luck with finding work, but I really don't have cash either...

Somber wrote:Sorry.

*hugs you gently*

Just try to remember that we care about you, sir, no matter what.

Somber wrote:No.  I'm sorry.  I'm a complete mess right now.  Work isn't working out.  Money is tight.  Thanksgiving is coming up.  Horizons is creeping along at a paragraph an hour and my head is just not in the game.  I'm constantly fighting 'checking out' feelings and I don't know how to make them stop.  I have NO idea what's holding up my job at this point, but the temp work isn't coming close to paying the bills as they're all minimum wage.  I wish I could say that there was the second half this weekend, but there isn't.  And due to the holidays, there might not be one next weekend either.

Sorry.

Oh dear. Somber, if there's anything I can do, let me know. I really hope that things improve soon...

Somber wrote:No.  I'm sorry.  I'm a complete mess right now.  Work isn't working out.  Money is tight.  Thanksgiving is coming up.  Horizons is creeping along at a paragraph an hour and my head is just not in the game.  I'm constantly fighting 'checking out' feelings and I don't know how to make them stop.  I have NO idea what's holding up my job at this point, but the temp work isn't coming close to paying the bills as they're all minimum wage.  I wish I could say that there was the second half this weekend, but there isn't.  And due to the holidays, there might not be one next weekend either.

Sorry.

Try not to worry, nobody here is going to throw a temper if we don't get a timely chapter update. And if anything, use the holidays to take your mind of things. Maybe see friends and family. But don't give in to despair. No amount of writing, money or obligations is worth giving up on life.

Somber wrote:No.  I'm sorry.  I'm a complete mess right now.  Work isn't working out.  Money is tight.  Thanksgiving is coming up.  Horizons is creeping along at a paragraph an hour and my head is just not in the game.  I'm constantly fighting 'checking out' feelings and I don't know how to make them stop.  I have NO idea what's holding up my job at this point, but the temp work isn't coming close to paying the bills as they're all minimum wage.  I wish I could say that there was the second half this weekend, but there isn't.  And due to the holidays, there might not be one next weekend either.

Sorry.

Somber, seriously, don't worry. We get that you're doing this on your own time and that you have other things in your life that take precedence. Take as long as you need, we'll undoubtedly spend the time wildly speculating (Boo was actually P-21 all along!).

I think I speak for a vast majority of us when I say that I'd rather see you never complete Project Horizons and end up okay than have you finish it while everything else in your life falls apart.