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What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:31 am

I was more annoyed at the prices of the Vigor upgrades.

I understand would have had more money if I didn't upgrade my weapons as much as I did, but it always seemed like "Hmmm... save up to 1500+ for one Vigor upgrade.... or upgrade my weapons three to four times for the same cash?"
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:51 am

Cptadder wrote:Really kind of annoyed how the upgrades are so widely spaced, carrying around 1500 because I don't use devils kiss or anything else but murder and possession at the moment.

Yeah, it kinda sucks. They have all these cool powers in the game and you don't have access to them for the most part.

Moodyman90 wrote:I was more annoyed at the prices of the Vigor upgrades.

I understand would have had more money if I didn't upgrade my weapons as much as I did, but it always seemed like "Hmmm... save up to 1500+ for one Vigor upgrade.... or upgrade my weapons three to four times for the same cash?"

That was pretty much my philosophy on my first playthrough. I'd rather spend my money on any upgrade then lose it because I died a bunch.

I started on hard mode by the way.

Kippershy wrote:I never really dabbled in vigors much, only occasionally when I needed the support.
carbine was my weapon of choice... One shot kills to most enemies with that beast of a gun.
seriously, carbine mixed with shotty or occasional rpg or crankgun.... Godly combo.
repeater was uselss though. Burst gun even more so.
hand cannon was okay at times.

only tears I ever used were fire support ones, with only using cover for one fight and only medkits for the final

I'd recommend a second playthrough if you got the time then. The Vigors can be very fun to use, especially when you get the upgrades like chain lightning and what not.




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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Cptadder on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:45 am

Speaking of prices yes, in 1912 the yearly salary was 1500$. I always wondered why Booker was so insistent on saving Elizabeth since he comes across over 30,000$ by games end since that's over 700,000$ in 2012 money. It makes me wonder exactly how much did Booker get into debt? Anna after all is what he really sold but how much exactly did he get into debt?
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:00 pm

That's actually a good point but I'm chalking it up to that deep down Booker knew he was there to save Anna, but tear sickness and the memories he created to fit into that dimension inflated the debt in his mind.

Or he owed a blood debt. Life for a life... oh god he thought he sold his daughter into slavery....
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:13 pm

Cptadder wrote:Speaking of prices yes, in 1912 the yearly salary was 1500$. I always wondered why Booker was so insistent on saving Elizabeth since he comes across over 30,000$ by games end since that's over 700,000$ in 2012 money. It makes me wonder exactly how much did Booker get into debt? Anna after all is what he really sold but how much exactly did he get into debt?

I actually thought about that earlier. The majority of what you collected were silver eagles (They might be made of silver but the name might just be denoting the color) you did pick up gold and silver bars from time to time, but if he did just go home with a couple bags of this currency would it really be worth anything to the people he was indebted to?

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Cptadder on Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:20 pm

Last wrote:

I actually thought about that earlier. The majority of what you collected were silver eagles (They might be made of silver but the name might just be denoting the color) you did pick up gold and silver bars from time to time, but if he did just go home with a couple bags of this currency would it really be worth anything to the people he was indebted to?
We were not yet off the gold standard until 1933, before then Silver eagles were pretty much 99% silver so even if the coinage was not recognized (Silly because the Columbines kept American money) the fact remains they are still 99% silver and thus you can melt them down and take the value that way.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:39 pm

Cptadder wrote:
Last wrote:

I actually thought about that earlier. The majority of what you collected were silver eagles (They might be made of silver but the name might just be denoting the color) you did pick up gold and silver bars from time to time, but if he did just go home with a couple bags of this currency would it really be worth anything to the people he was indebted to?
We were not yet off the gold standard until 1933, before then Silver eagles were pretty much 99% silver so even if the coinage was not recognized (Silly because the Columbines kept American money) the fact remains they are still 99% silver and thus you can melt them down and take the value that way.

Do you have any evidence that backs up the fact the silver eagles are made of silver? We're dealing with an alt universe here.

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Cptadder on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:38 pm

Last wrote:

Do you have any evidence that backs up the fact the silver eagles are made of silver? We're dealing with an alt universe here.
We have them now, we believed in the gold and silver standards then. Why would we keep the racism, the class roles, the racism, the feeling and beliefs of the times, the racism... So why do we keep all of the other parts of 1900 America but not keep the Silver in our Silver Eagles?

I have no evidence sans logic, in the 1900s Silver eagles were 99% silver. In fact most coinage which was silver based was 99% silver because silver was still seen as intrinsically valuable and used in coinage as even if you did not trust American money you'd still have a coin made of silver. Logically if you don't trust American money but still want something worth something you'd use a coinage backed by a precious metal.

More importantly if they were NOT made of silver Fink would have no need to pay his workers tokens because if he could simply use Fink-dollars then he'd not need to set up the company store.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:28 am

*PULLS HAIR* I was totally not prepared for this
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guest on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:14 am

Cptadder wrote:*Snip*

I do have a few ideas to why that could be but I'd rather drop the discussion. I learned very recently that I don't have a very large capability to understand economics.


Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:*PULLS HAIR* I was totally not prepared for this

Yeah 1999 mode is a pain in the ass. I died a few times in one of the very early levels.

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guarddogjr on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:01 pm

Relevant:

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:16 pm

Don't know what it is but there's something about the eyes that really does it for me.

And while I know it's to match her cutie mark but I'd preferred if she had the bird pendent on her necklace.

And now we can jump to that topic, other than being one of the things in game you could actually decide, what's everybody's thoughts on the meaning behind the Lucetes showing up to offer Elizabeth the two different pendents?
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guarddogjr on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:25 pm

Hmm, maybe it had something to do with symbolism? The bird being what Elizibeth has wanted and her new life outside the tower. While the cage represents what her life used to be.

I don't know it's really the only thing I can think of
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Cptadder on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:47 pm

Last wrote:
Cptadder wrote:*Snip*

I do have a few ideas to why that could be but I'd rather drop the discussion. I learned very recently that I don't have a very large capability to understand economics.
Well on that note I'll guess we will leave it.

Also IMHO there is no moral at the end of Bioshock because as someone else says

Anna Dewitt says- "If you make the wrong choices in life the best thing to do is go back in time and erase yourself from existence!"
Thanks Anna, I'll keep that in mind
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:59 pm

Eh, you could say "Extremism is bad" but I think the first game covered that as well.

Anyways, like I said I went with the bird pendent. After all, I was there to get Elizabeth and I didn't believe for a second that Booker would actually go through with just handing her to somebody else to pay his debt. Or at least as a player I would get the option provided how I treated her through the game.

Well we know how that went but it wasn't until later the bird pendent could also mean/be a reminder of Songbird. After all, he's looking for her and will never stop. So at that point of the game the meaning behind the pendents, as least for me is "You're free but hunted" or "No matter what you're in a cage."
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:25 am

Moodyman90 wrote:Eh, you could say "Extremism is bad" but I think the first game covered that as well.

Anyways, like I said I went with the bird pendent. After all, I was there to get Elizabeth and I didn't believe for a second that Booker would actually go through with just handing her to somebody else to pay his debt. Or at least as a player I would get the option provided how I treated her through the game.

Well we know how that went but it wasn't until later the bird pendent could also mean/be a reminder of Songbird. After all, he's looking for her and will never stop. So at that point of the game the meaning behind the pendents, as least for me is "You're free but hunted" or "No matter what you're in a cage."

I chose the Cage. When I got to the end and received the note I thought my decision had an impact on the game. Unfortunately it did not.

Not that I really mind all that much.


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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Formis_Fluttergod on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:10 pm

swicked wrote:The problem, I think, is that you see this multiverse as a tree, whereas I see it simply as parallel lines. They presented it as parallel lines, to be sure.
There is no common stock reality that every one is based off of, although there are set constants that must take place regardless of any other variables.

But whatever, sure, most of the game was pretty good. When they started getting stupid toward the last 15-20%, changing the setting and theme and trying to come off eccentric and deep, they completely dropped the ball.
The pseudoscience was weak in this one :P
The problem is that the ending works only for tree-like multiverse. I don't remember seeing anything that would explicitly shown if they meant for the realities to be parallel lines or a tree, except for the ending which's approach to solving the cycle leaves no other functional possibility than a tree.

If you prevent an event from happening in a tree-like multiverse, all branches resulting from that event are altered, thus killing DeWitt at a specific time would result in no Comstock or Booker. Of course if all possible Comstocks/Bookers were eliminated like this there's the grandfather paradox to be considered as Anna would never be born in the first place to kill him.
In a multiverse presented as parallel lines, just like you said, there's no common starting point for Comstock/Booker so returning in time and killing DeWitt that's become Booker wouldn't change anything outside of that one reality he was killed in. Each reality is its own linear line independent of others, so all Anna'd need to do is kill DeWitt in every reality where he's pre-destined to become Comstock, killing soon-to-become Bookers would be pointless (unless you'd want to be very thorough). Seeing as Comstock DeWitts never had a child, there would be no grandfather paradox since those DeWitts wouldn't be Anna's father.

The problem in both cases however, are the numbers. In a parallel lines multiverse, one by one, Anna can't kill potentially infinite amount of DeWitts, even with her powers. In a tree multiverse the same problem exists only in more layers. The common starting point isn't the baptism scene, because DeWitt could've gone an infinite number of ways since birth, potentially leading him to an infinite number of slightly different baptism scenes and as a result Comstocks and Bookers. In the same manner, events preceding DeWitt's birth could've played out in an infinite number of ways leading to an infinite number of different DeWitts being born. So basically Anna'd have to follow this issue all the way down to the common start of all realities where DeWitt was ever born and alter something there.

All in all, I think sub-title Infinite suits the game well. Spike
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:25 pm

Granted it's been a small pool of people mostly in my area, but I've found that most people who have enjoyed the ending to Infinite are those who are willing to accept that if time travel is possible you'll be able to change the past if you mess with it.

Those who don't like the ending are those who believe that even if time travel is possible you can't change the past no matter what.

On an unrelated note, most people in the first camp with the time travel belief tend to be Dr. Who fans. I know of it but never watched the show myself so I can't comment there.

Then there's the people who hate the ending because it did have multiple endings and those who liked it because they went "Oh, alright. that's cool."
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by swicked on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:49 pm

It's not time travel, it's just math.
You start with a set of all of the bookers. Half the bookers become comstocks, and half the bookers become unbaptised bookers.
They are then taking the unbaptised bookers, aka half the total number of bookers and... what, doubling them? How does that work?
You can absolutely change the past, you just can't take ten, subtract 5, and get zero. That's the part that doesn't make sense.

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:49 pm

I admit that not everything about the ending makes sense, but I still say that Elizabeth, who at full power can see all other realities and can open tears to wherever and whenever she wants in all of them(and even if 1 Elizabeth couldn't do it alone the presence of all the different version of her helped), took all the other versions of Booker and Comstock(maybe even taking the Bookers that would be Comstock so they would be more similar) to 1(one) dimension where they all fused into 1(one) Booker.

And so Booker-Prime, this combinations of all the Bookers from across the vast number of alternate realities where his actions actually meant a damn thing, was drowned and prevented the split to occur.

So it's not that they had 10, subtracted 5 and got zero, but they had 10, divided it by 10 to get 1 and then got rid of that one.

But I said that last time as well.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by swicked on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:07 am

Huh.
I wonder why they didn't just take the comstock body with them, combine all the comstocks into it, and drown him. Or find a living comstock and do the same.
I mean, she only brought half of the equation with her, is all. She had the "five" bookers with her, in all the infinite realities. We saw them walking together with the infinite lighthouses.
I see that as the five. The willing five, going along with her in all the realities, always being lead to the baptism, and always to drown. The comstocks were left behind in their respective realities and were never pulled forward to enter the equation.
There's also, of course, the paradox of having not just many elizabeths when there is only one booker, but any at all when you're killing him prior to his siring her.
But yeah, whatever.

Edit:
And then, after the credits, he wakes up. So... they DID only drown comstocks, aka the people that weren't there? Whatever, again.
Maybe his being alive wasn't even an act of mercy... the universe just couldn't take any more getting screwed with, and decided that Elizabeth had to at least be born before she became a god.

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:24 am

I'm just chalking it up to the game being limited to technology. Yeah you may have only saw five, but there's a greater number off in the distance. Because you're stuck in the perspective of 1 Booker you don't see just how far that weird hub world of lighthouses actually goes.

The game is far from perfect and the ending is a cluster fuck if you think about it too much. But for me what they was trying to convey worked well enough for me to go "I see what they're trying to do and I'm cool with it." Course I am just talking out of my ass(what I think the ending is) and have no idea what the creators actually meant.

As for the after credit scene, there's different ways to interpret it as well.
The one I perfer because it's as close to a happy ending is that there was a version of Booker Elizabeth was able to spare, and that Booker has some if not all of the memories and will use it to be a good father to Anna.

Or you could take it as Booker having a really messed up dream(the events of the game) after drinking a lot and waking up the next morning. Course there's a good version of that in that the dream showed him what his self destructive behavior is doing to him and his daughter's future and he's gonna try to be a better person now.

I'm so much of an optimist at times I can't help but look at myself in disbelief.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by swicked on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:32 am

Err, I wasn't talking about a literal 5. I was continuing the analogy, "five" being the set of unbaptized bookers (which was clearly more than five).
Whatever some more, though.

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:36 am

Ah, sorry bout that. Once again it's a bit late at night for me to be thinking about stuff like this. Also I may be getting distracted by your signature with the tiny dancing ponies.

In any case, I need to get off my lazy ass and play the game again, this time on 1999 mode.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by swicked on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:36 am

Moodyman90 wrote:Also I may be getting distracted by your signature with the tiny dancing ponies.
That's happening to other people, too? Twilight Sparkle
I've been doing that CONSTANTLY!
I love them so very much, I figured out how to make animated gifs just to make this one. And that's it.
I feel like I could stare at them for hours.

If you click on them, it goes to the video they are from Lyra

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Formis_Fluttergod on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:16 am

swicked wrote:
If you click on them, it goes to the video they are from Lyra
Dat video. Spike
Moodyman90 wrote:The game is far from perfect and the ending is a cluster fuck if you think about it too much. But for me what they was trying to convey worked well enough for me to go "I see what they're trying to do and I'm cool with it." Course I am just talking out of my ass(what I think the ending is) and have no idea what the creators actually meant.

As for the after credit scene, there's different ways to interpret it as well.
The one I perfer because it's as close to a happy ending is that there was a version of Booker Elizabeth was able to spare, and that Booker has some if not all of the memories and will use it to be a good father to Anna.
I think that what they're trying to convey is exactly what you meant. DeWitt (all of them) was taken to the past, the starting point where either Booker or Comstock were (re-)born, and eliminated. Now, this ending would only work for tree-like multiverse, because in parallel multiverse each soon-to-be Comstock has a paralel line of his own not previously shared with Booker. And also, this ending works on the basic level but fails when scrutinized (like almost every story dealing with time-travel and parallel realities), simply because it wasn't properly thought through all the way down to the core of the issue, which is, quite honestly, impossible with topics like this, having all the infinite possibilities and stuff. Twilight crazy

What also occured to me after I turned off my PC, even if we were considering the tree-like multiverse, killing all the DeWitts maybe wouldn't change a damn thing in the realities where it happened. It would merely create branches where neither Booker nor Comstock exist that are parallel to the ones where they do exist (or these branches always existed because they were always a possibility).

EDIT: How the post-credits scene with Booker relates to all this is beyond me, unless the entire Infinte was a dream, because it defies everything the ending was supposed to solve. Or it could be completely unrelated parallel reality where none of this ever happened, don't see the point in that one though.
Moodyman90 wrote:Granted it's been a small pool of people mostly in my area, but I've found that most people who have enjoyed the ending to Infinite are those who are willing to accept that if time travel is possible you'll be able to change the past if you mess with it.
I'm a special case then, I don't think it's possible to change the past they way they present it, because every change leads to parallel reality, not changing the reality where you came from.
However, I still like the ending, because they had the balls to go through with it even if it's basically impossible to seal up all possible plotholes and breaking points when one deals with infinite multiverse. And it's still a briliant conclusion even if it's too meta for its own good.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Moodyman90 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Yeah I have to be in agreement. That ending did get a bit too meta for anybodies good.

Though it could have been a hell of a lot worse.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:45 pm

Moodyman90 wrote:In any case, I need to get off my lazy ass and play the game again, this time on 1999 mode.

When you do I can't recommend the undertow and shock jockey upgrades enough.

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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Guarddogjr on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:47 pm

Yeah, I'm with Last on that one. it helps so much
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

Post by Orm on Wed May 01, 2013 7:59 pm

This is cute.
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Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

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