Re: What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

by Guest Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:01 pm

Relevant:

by Moodyman90 Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:16 pm

Don't know what it is but there's something about the eyes that really does it for me.

And while I know it's to match her cutie mark but I'd preferred if she had the bird pendent on her necklace.

And now we can jump to that topic, other than being one of the things in game you could actually decide, what's everybody's thoughts on the meaning behind the Lucetes showing up to offer Elizabeth the two different pendents?

by Guest Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:25 pm

Hmm, maybe it had something to do with symbolism? The bird being what Elizibeth has wanted and her new life outside the tower. While the cage represents what her life used to be.

I don't know it's really the only thing I can think of

by Cptadder Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:47 pm

Last wrote:
Cptadder wrote:*Snip*

I do have a few ideas to why that could be but I'd rather drop the discussion. I learned very recently that I don't have a very large capability to understand economics.

Well on that note I'll guess we will leave it.

Also IMHO there is no moral at the end of Bioshock because as someone else says

Anna Dewitt says- "If you make the wrong choices in life the best thing to do is go back in time and erase yourself from existence!"
Thanks Anna, I'll keep that in mind

by Moodyman90 Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:59 pm

Eh, you could say "Extremism is bad" but I think the first game covered that as well.

Anyways, like I said I went with the bird pendent. After all, I was there to get Elizabeth and I didn't believe for a second that Booker would actually go through with just handing her to somebody else to pay his debt. Or at least as a player I would get the option provided how I treated her through the game.

Well we know how that went but it wasn't until later the bird pendent could also mean/be a reminder of Songbird. After all, he's looking for her and will never stop. So at that point of the game the meaning behind the pendents, as least for me is "You're free but hunted" or "No matter what you're in a cage."

by Guest Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:25 am

Moodyman90 wrote:Eh, you could say "Extremism is bad" but I think the first game covered that as well.

Anyways, like I said I went with the bird pendent. After all, I was there to get Elizabeth and I didn't believe for a second that Booker would actually go through with just handing her to somebody else to pay his debt. Or at least as a player I would get the option provided how I treated her through the game.

Well we know how that went but it wasn't until later the bird pendent could also mean/be a reminder of Songbird. After all, he's looking for her and will never stop. So at that point of the game the meaning behind the pendents, as least for me is "You're free but hunted" or "No matter what you're in a cage."

I chose the Cage. When I got to the end and received the note I thought my decision had an impact on the game. Unfortunately it did not.

Not that I really mind all that much.

by Formis_Fluttergod Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:10 pm

swicked wrote:The problem, I think, is that you see this multiverse as a tree, whereas I see it simply as parallel lines. They presented it as parallel lines, to be sure.
There is no common stock reality that every one is based off of, although there are set constants that must take place regardless of any other variables.

But whatever, sure, most of the game was pretty good. When they started getting stupid toward the last 15-20%, changing the setting and theme and trying to come off eccentric and deep, they completely dropped the ball.
The pseudoscience was weak in this one :P

The problem is that the ending works only for tree-like multiverse. I don't remember seeing anything that would explicitly shown if they meant for the realities to be parallel lines or a tree, except for the ending which's approach to solving the cycle leaves no other functional possibility than a tree.

If you prevent an event from happening in a tree-like multiverse, all branches resulting from that event are altered, thus killing DeWitt at a specific time would result in no Comstock or Booker. Of course if all possible Comstocks/Bookers were eliminated like this there's the grandfather paradox to be considered as Anna would never be born in the first place to kill him.
In a multiverse presented as parallel lines, just like you said, there's no common starting point for Comstock/Booker so returning in time and killing DeWitt that's become Booker wouldn't change anything outside of that one reality he was killed in. Each reality is its own linear line independent of others, so all Anna'd need to do is kill DeWitt in every reality where he's pre-destined to become Comstock, killing soon-to-become Bookers would be pointless (unless you'd want to be very thorough). Seeing as Comstock DeWitts never had a child, there would be no grandfather paradox since those DeWitts wouldn't be Anna's father.

The problem in both cases however, are the numbers. In a parallel lines multiverse, one by one, Anna can't kill potentially infinite amount of DeWitts, even with her powers. In a tree multiverse the same problem exists only in more layers. The common starting point isn't the baptism scene, because DeWitt could've gone an infinite number of ways since birth, potentially leading him to an infinite number of slightly different baptism scenes and as a result Comstocks and Bookers. In the same manner, events preceding DeWitt's birth could've played out in an infinite number of ways leading to an infinite number of different DeWitts being born. So basically Anna'd have to follow this issue all the way down to the common start of all realities where DeWitt was ever born and alter something there.

All in all, I think sub-title Infinite suits the game well. Spike

by Moodyman90 Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:25 pm

Granted it's been a small pool of people mostly in my area, but I've found that most people who have enjoyed the ending to Infinite are those who are willing to accept that if time travel is possible you'll be able to change the past if you mess with it.

Those who don't like the ending are those who believe that even if time travel is possible you can't change the past no matter what.

On an unrelated note, most people in the first camp with the time travel belief tend to be Dr. Who fans. I know of it but never watched the show myself so I can't comment there.

Then there's the people who hate the ending because it did have multiple endings and those who liked it because they went "Oh, alright. that's cool."

by Moodyman90 Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:49 pm

I admit that not everything about the ending makes sense, but I still say that Elizabeth, who at full power can see all other realities and can open tears to wherever and whenever she wants in all of them(and even if 1 Elizabeth couldn't do it alone the presence of all the different version of her helped), took all the other versions of Booker and Comstock(maybe even taking the Bookers that would be Comstock so they would be more similar) to 1(one) dimension where they all fused into 1(one) Booker.

And so Booker-Prime, this combinations of all the Bookers from across the vast number of alternate realities where his actions actually meant a damn thing, was drowned and prevented the split to occur.

So it's not that they had 10, subtracted 5 and got zero, but they had 10, divided it by 10 to get 1 and then got rid of that one.

But I said that last time as well.

by Moodyman90 Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:24 am

I'm just chalking it up to the game being limited to technology. Yeah you may have only saw five, but there's a greater number off in the distance. Because you're stuck in the perspective of 1 Booker you don't see just how far that weird hub world of lighthouses actually goes.

The game is far from perfect and the ending is a cluster fuck if you think about it too much. But for me what they was trying to convey worked well enough for me to go "I see what they're trying to do and I'm cool with it." Course I am just talking out of my ass(what I think the ending is) and have no idea what the creators actually meant.

As for the after credit scene, there's different ways to interpret it as well.
The one I perfer because it's as close to a happy ending is that there was a version of Booker Elizabeth was able to spare, and that Booker has some if not all of the memories and will use it to be a good father to Anna.

Or you could take it as Booker having a really messed up dream(the events of the game) after drinking a lot and waking up the next morning. Course there's a good version of that in that the dream showed him what his self destructive behavior is doing to him and his daughter's future and he's gonna try to be a better person now.

I'm so much of an optimist at times I can't help but look at myself in disbelief.

by Moodyman90 Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:36 am

Ah, sorry bout that. Once again it's a bit late at night for me to be thinking about stuff like this. Also I may be getting distracted by your signature with the tiny dancing ponies.

In any case, I need to get off my lazy ass and play the game again, this time on 1999 mode.

by Formis_Fluttergod Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:16 am

swicked wrote:
If you click on them, it goes to the video they are from

Dat video. Spike

Moodyman90 wrote:The game is far from perfect and the ending is a cluster fuck if you think about it too much. But for me what they was trying to convey worked well enough for me to go "I see what they're trying to do and I'm cool with it." Course I am just talking out of my ass(what I think the ending is) and have no idea what the creators actually meant.

As for the after credit scene, there's different ways to interpret it as well.
The one I perfer because it's as close to a happy ending is that there was a version of Booker Elizabeth was able to spare, and that Booker has some if not all of the memories and will use it to be a good father to Anna.

I think that what they're trying to convey is exactly what you meant. DeWitt (all of them) was taken to the past, the starting point where either Booker or Comstock were (re-)born, and eliminated. Now, this ending would only work for tree-like multiverse, because in parallel multiverse each soon-to-be Comstock has a paralel line of his own not previously shared with Booker. And also, this ending works on the basic level but fails when scrutinized (like almost every story dealing with time-travel and parallel realities), simply because it wasn't properly thought through all the way down to the core of the issue, which is, quite honestly, impossible with topics like this, having all the infinite possibilities and stuff. Twilight crazy

What also occured to me after I turned off my PC, even if we were considering the tree-like multiverse, killing all the DeWitts maybe wouldn't change a damn thing in the realities where it happened. It would merely create branches where neither Booker nor Comstock exist that are parallel to the ones where they do exist (or these branches always existed because they were always a possibility).

EDIT: How the post-credits scene with Booker relates to all this is beyond me, unless the entire Infinte was a dream, because it defies everything the ending was supposed to solve. Or it could be completely unrelated parallel reality where none of this ever happened, don't see the point in that one though.

Moodyman90 wrote:Granted it's been a small pool of people mostly in my area, but I've found that most people who have enjoyed the ending to Infinite are those who are willing to accept that if time travel is possible you'll be able to change the past if you mess with it.

I'm a special case then, I don't think it's possible to change the past they way they present it, because every change leads to parallel reality, not changing the reality where you came from.
However, I still like the ending, because they had the balls to go through with it even if it's basically impossible to seal up all possible plotholes and breaking points when one deals with infinite multiverse. And it's still a briliant conclusion even if it's too meta for its own good.

by Moodyman90 Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Yeah I have to be in agreement. That ending did get a bit too meta for anybodies good.

Though it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

by Guest Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:45 pm

Moodyman90 wrote:In any case, I need to get off my lazy ass and play the game again, this time on 1999 mode.

When you do I can't recommend the undertow and shock jockey upgrades enough.

by Guest Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:47 pm

Yeah, I'm with Last on that one. it helps so much

by Orm Wed May 01, 2013 7:59 pm

This is cute.
What did you do during the siege of Columbia? - Page 2 Tumblr_mm53c61pqs1qedutlo1_1280

by Guest Wed May 01, 2013 8:02 pm

That is amazing Orm.

by Formis_Fluttergod Sun May 26, 2013 7:40 pm

If anyone's interested, the guy who made the 5 hours long Indoctrination Theory Documentary for ME3's ending made a documentary about Infinite's ending. And despite issues that would inevitably arise if you put the events of Infitine into context with the entire "timetree" (or whatever else), simply because dealing with multiverses and parallel realitties is crazy to begin with, the way he explaines the ending actually works quite well within the boundaries and lore established by the game. Enjoy. Twilight Sparkle

by Guest Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:16 pm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-8EPI1VEnI

So I found this on YouTube and thought it might be worth discussing here. For a while now I've thought one of the dlcs would feature Preston and the Sioux child he crippled. The last voxophone of his we hear appears to be at the climax of his story when he and the Sioux child begin their hunt for comstock.

it's possible that the Sioux child is the companion mentioned, I'd like to hear any theories some of you might have.

by Moodyman90 Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:58 pm

It certainly does look interesting.

Maybe it's alternate universe Booker who teamed up with Slate?

Not related to this but to Bioshock in general, I've been slogging my way through 1999 Mode. I say slogging because it's like I'm literally playing from checkpoint to checkpoint before my game decides to quit working.

by Guest Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:51 pm

Good luck moody. That siren fight is a real patience tester.

by Guest Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:53 pm

Yeah, the first siren fight was the worst fucking patience tester ever. Almost raged several times.

by Guest Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:10 pm

Almost?

by Guest Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:11 pm

....I might have raged just a little bit

by Moodyman90 Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:24 pm

I thought the first Siren fight was impossible on Hard mode, I am NOT looking forward to it in 1999.

Top that with my game randomly freezing, yeah this is gonna be "fun".

by Moodyman90 Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:14 pm

Still slowly making my way through 1999 Mode. I'm right before the big Siren fight.

In other news, the first DLC for the game has come out. It is not apart of the Season Pass stuff so it's not Story based. Just the standard "Here's the stuff people who pre-ordered the super editions got for those who didn't".

For $5 you can have 500 extra Silver Eagles, a ton of Gears (including one that makes fighting Handymen easier) five lockpicks, and some upgrades to some weapons.

by Moodyman90 Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:48 pm

So I beat the game on 1999 Mode without using a single Dollar Bill vender.

I had to restart from the Main Menu three times due to running out of cash, and that was during the first Siren fight. After I bulled my way through that and the next two parts the game was pretty easy comparatively.

But I noticed something while playing. Granted the game is FULL of foreshadowing and symbolism, but when I got to the room right before you confront Comstock... I noticed that on either side of the replica of the Tower with the siphon and model Elizabeth is murals depicting the first rescue of Elizabeth, Battleship Bay, and Fink and the other side is Elizabeth killing Fitzroy, Comstock House, and the final one depicting the airship Hand of the Prophet.

I can't remember if I noticed it the first time I played or not and due to the nature of the game it's nothing special, but I still found it a nice touch.

by Guest Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:52 pm

Yeah, the first Siren fight is such a bitch. I thought the final fight on the airship was nothing compared to that one.

by Moodyman90 Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:57 pm

I admit I died more times during the airship fight then I thought I should, but between Shock Jockey and Murder of Crow traps I kept a majority of the masses away from the exposed power source.

At least until they sent some guys with Rockets. Between fighting everybody else and three Patriots I couldn't keep an eye on them. Three of my deaths was because of them and with me distracted by death the Patriots hammered away. Didn't lose the airship though.

As for how I got by the Siren fights, up-graded Devil's Kiss with Charge and the Overkill Gear. Between the explosion the Kiss/Charge combo grants and the electrical effects of Overkill mixed with head shots, I eventually took away all the zombie help.

by Guest Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:59 pm

I used Undertow and Shock Jockey a lot during the final fight, it helped to push things off of the airship.

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