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What did you do during the siege of Columbia?

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Post by Guest Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:38 pm

assorted trailers:

Almost forgot these two amazing videos:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9tMjyGJdzwk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zin6aKnJM5Q?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Post by Sky Cloud Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:36 pm

My mind was blown at the end. The game is a solid 10/10 in my book, but that ending. just, wow.
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Post by Orm Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:47 pm

Loved it.
One of my favourite games of this year.
The story was really good.
And the ending was great, it did a great job giving hints to it throughout the game, and actually had stop and think about it during the credits. (I thought the post credit scene was a really nice touch that helped make things even better.)

My only issues with it are that I ended up using a lot of the same weapons and vigors. (Murder Crows wasn't exactly useful.)

I'm probably going to wait until I get the season pass before starting 1999 mode.

And speaking of the season pass.
I look forward to what kind of story DLC they are going to make.
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Post by Moodyman90 Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:48 pm

What did I do? I survived, that's what I did.

But seriously, game is awesome. Looks beautiful, great story, plays great.

I know there was worry cause it's been delayed a few times, but I think it was worth it to bring us this product.

It got meta a hell though.
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Post by Moodyman90 Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:20 pm

It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but this is what I think they wanted to convey.

The part where they drowned Booker to prevent him from being Comstock is the multiple versions of Elizabeth cutting off that branch from the time tree to use an analogy. They didn't stop one Booker from becoming him, they prevented ALL the Bookers who became Comstock.

But the Time Stream/Dimensional Fabric/ whatever they went with is still messed up slightly because Elizabeth exist outside of it now due to her powers, which is near Godlike now. So the Booker who woke up at the post credit scene is all the Bookers who never got baptized, but since there isn't a Comstock to even offer to buy Anna to wipe away the debt, he'll never sell her and thus gets to be a father.

Feel free to call bullshit, I wouldn't blame you.
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Post by Moodyman90 Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:46 pm

Once again I point to the fact there was multiple Elizabeths there.

Also: Elizabeth A:"He's Zachary Comstock."
Elizabeth B:"He's Booker DeWitt."
Booker:"No... I'm both."


The Booker we had been controlling my have made that choice to not be baptized, but they took him, all versions of him, to the dimension where he did make the choice to become Comstock. The baptism seems to be the great diversion point, they simply took the Booker who didn't get baptized and combined him with the one who was about to go through with it.


As for the bridge thing, yeah Booker never made it across until the older version of Elizabeth used her powers to bring him to the future. Yes, Booker originally died before he could save Elizabeth, so the older version plucked him to before he died so he could reach her to get the card for her younger version. All the yelling you hear from the younger Elizabeth is just through Tears.
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Post by Cptadder Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:52 pm

swicked wrote:

...anyway, does anyone have any explanation why it took Booker years to get across a bridge? Did elder Elizabeth from some reality where Booker died trying to get across that bridge and save her really pull him through time just to have him fight through her entire insane asylum, finally find her, then time jump AGAIN to where she was destroying New York, all to say "Hey, here's a cryptic message to give to my past self, and don't let me get captured, kay?"?
This is absurd stuff.
Booker tries and fails over and over again to get to Elizabeth and Songbird always stops him or kills him. At this point Elizabeth is strong enough to rez Booker like the Lucete's can rez him at will and so Booker gets rezed... Songbird steps on him and she rez him... and step and rez and step and rez and damn Booker who knew the human body had that much blood in it? And the cryptic message was cryptic to Booker not Elizabeth. In fact you can read it if you want, the key is back in Elizabeth's room on Monument Island.
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Post by Moodyman90 Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 am

I'm just gonna concede my point.

Honestly the game is too god damn meta for it's own good. Keep hearing the Infinite stands for the fact there's an infinite amount of possibilities.
You said nothing was changed, I say they changed everything.

In the end, I believe the post credit scene was in the very least a version of Booker who was never molested by Comstock, was able to raise Anna and give her a normal life, and maybe deep down inside still retained some subconscious memory of Elizabeth and did take Anna to Paris.

But that's me. You obviously got something completely different from it.
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Post by Orm Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:15 am

Cptadder wrote:
Booker tries and fails over and over again to get to Elizabeth and Songbird always stops him or kills him. At this point Elizabeth is strong enough to rez Booker like the Lucete's can rez him at will and so Booker gets rezed... Songbird steps on him and she rez him... and step and rez and step and rez and damn Booker who knew the human body had that much blood in it? And the cryptic message was cryptic to Booker not Elizabeth. In fact you can read it if you want, the key is back in Elizabeth's room on Monument Island.
Actually Booker was pulled through a tear and brought to a Columbia where he never saved Elizabeth, and she became the Elizabeth Comstock wanted. (This could also be the tear Comstock use Elizabeth for to see make his prophesies.

From what I've seen in the game, there are the obvious multiple worlds.
One where Booker leads the Vox and dies. One where Booker dies and Comstock uses Elizabeth to destroy New York( and I assume the world). And one where Booker saves Elizabeth.


But as for the ending, it made sense to me.
Basically when Booker got the choice to get Baptised is the point in time where all of this can be changed.
When Booker is underwater is when Booker DeWitt dies, and Zachary Comstock is born.
Elizabeth essentially brought Booker back in time to this point to end the cycle.
Without either one of them leaving that point neither one lives and the cycle is broken. (I assume the other Booker's go through with the same thing, therefore never giving Comstock the chance of being born.)

As for post credits scene.
I take it as a different world where Booker never went to the baptism, therefore eliminating that choice from ever happening, and keeping Comstock from taking Anna.

That's just my opinion though, feel free to ignore it.


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Post by Moodyman90 Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:17 am

I'd like to see the others take on the ending. Get somebody else's look on it.

Like I said, I'm conceding my point for the moment, cause right now it's just us going "They're just repeating the loop." "No, the loop was broken."

It's also way too late at night for me to be pondering the logic and mechanics of dimensional altering, time warping powers.
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Post by Orm Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:35 am

Okay, I am bad at writing. So am going to hope this makes sense.

Each Booker you saw at the end came from a different line.
In each one them came from their own respective lines with their own respective Comstock's.
What the Elizabeth's did was essentially take every Booker and brought them back to the point where the choice to become Booker or Comstock came up.
By killing him, they kept each line from progressing.

If each Booker you saw went back to kill each Comstock then every Booker and Comstock would have died, and kept Comstock from ever coming to.

I know you're just going to say that that doesn't matter and that somewhere there is a Comstock hunting them down.
But even Elizabeth basically says that he won't stop unless they kill him there.
And that's exactly what they did.
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Post by Orm Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:20 am

You know what, I'm done.

It's clear no matter what anyone says it's not going to change what you think of then ending.

Let's just agree to disagree when it comes to the ending.

We can at least agree that it was a really good game.
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Post by Cptadder Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:03 am

I think Elizabeth was thinking to small scale, no need to kill Booker to kill Comstock to save Booker. Why not simply... kill the Preacher? Or KILL englishmen John Smyth the founder of the Baptist sect? It's clear Booker + religion =bad so you don't have to drown him at the river if you have him skip the river all together. Hell introduce him to a nice Amish preacher, a Buddhist or even the Church of Scientology.
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Post by Moodyman90 Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:20 pm

Anyways, enough about the ending. Let's talk Vigors, weapons, and tactics.

As I said before, other than with Possession I didn't upgrade the Vigors much and instead went more for weapons. Looking back I could have done with not upgrading the pistol since I rarely used it outside of the beginning of the game.

I altered between the Handcannon, RPG, and the two different machineguns if I could help it, but in fire fights I usually just grabbed what I could cause I never seemed to have enough ammo. If I had Possession in an active slot at the time I would spam that, especially if there was a turret, but other than that I just threw out a token shot of Devil's Kiss, Shock Jockey, or Murder of Crows.
As far as help from Tears, I was more for back up, like motorized patriots and more turrets, then cover, but if nothing was available I'd go for weapons or Skyhook points.
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Post by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:22 am

Moodyman90 wrote:Anyways, enough about the ending. Let's talk Vigors, weapons, and tactics.

As I said before, other than with Possession I didn't upgrade the Vigors much and instead went more for weapons. Looking back I could have done with not upgrading the pistol since I rarely used it outside of the beginning of the game.

I went the opposite path of you. I picked two weapons the handgun (Which I loved.) and the shotgun. Those were the only weapons I upgraded.

I abandoned possession. I felt like the effect wore off too quickly to provide much use other then that I alternated between my vigors. (Bucking bronco, Murder of Crows, Shock Jockey, and return to sender.) I never used Devil's Kiss, Charge, or undertow.

As for my gear I tended to stick to anything that would increase my survivability. Hill Runner's hat was a good friend for a while there.

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Post by Moodyman90 Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:36 am

I probably should have messed around with the gears more.

Think I found pants that cause anything I landed next to after riding the skyline catch on fire, and boots that cause knockback as well and never changed them, but the hats and shirts where swapped out between rapid reload/ increased clip size and find more salt/ammo and what seems like extra ammo just appearing after firing a few shots.
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Post by Meleagridis Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:37 am

Moodyman90 wrote:Anyways, enough about the ending. Let's talk Vigors, weapons, and tactics.

As I said before, other than with Possession I didn't upgrade the Vigors much and instead went more for weapons. Looking back I could have done with not upgrading the pistol since I rarely used it outside of the beginning of the game.

Heh. Pistol was the only weapon I was willing to upgrade, other than that all my money went to vigors. I can safely say that made the final fight a lot tougher... It was also kind of dumb since I hopped on every skyline I saw and fought from there, but you can't use vigors on a skyline.

Infinite did a fantastic job in forcing the player to move. I was skeptical at first about not being able to cart around health kits and mana pools, but Anna gives you enough for it not to feel limiting but not enough to let you stay in one spot. In the first two Bioshocks, you stock up on supplies and tank the tough fights from a small corner, setting up IVs of health and eve. Afterwards you go around the room and discover all the cool stuff you COULD have used to make that fight awesome. When you don't have five doses of health to fall back on, you need to move as soon as you've hoovered the health and salts around where you're standing. You've got to run around, and then you'll find the RPGs, motorized patriots, oil and water.
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Post by Guest Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:32 am

I've made a mistake in not utilizing undertow. In my second run I discovered it was capable of pulling both Handymen and motorized patriots, and if that wasn't enough it stuns both those enemies after use (As far as I know the only other vigor capable of stunning Handymen is murder of crows.)

Truth be told you don't want a handyman that close to you, however I wouldn't be surprised if you could use undertow to push the bastards off of Columbia assuring a near instant kill.

Unlike Handymen undertow I found is extremely effective against motorized patriots. You can nearly kill them before the initial stun even wears off.

All in all I found the most useful way to use it was against foes that wielded RPGs and volley guns. Being able to pull them out of cover to a place where you can do damage I think is going to be essential in 1999 mode.

Edit: I forgot to mention I almost never used vigor traps, I felt they were largely useless as I couldn't get enemies to walk into them. However Undertow makes all these traps more viable.

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Post by Kippershy Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:57 am

I never really dabbled in vigors much, only occasionally when I needed the support.
carbine was my weapon of choice... One shot kills to most enemies with that beast of a gun.
seriously, carbine mixed with shotty or occasional rpg or crankgun.... Godly combo.
repeater was uselss though. Burst gun even more so.
hand cannon was okay at times.

only tears I ever used were fire support ones, with only using cover for one fight and only medkits for the final
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Post by Cptadder Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:23 am

I'm on my 1999 no dollar store play through as we speak. Getting a lot more use out of vigors this time around, screw your heath it's all shield upgrades and salt upgrades. I can use possession four times now and that's without the cost saving upgrade yet.

Really kind of annoyed how the upgrades are so widely spaced, carrying around 1500 because I don't use devils kiss or anything else but murder and possession at the moment.
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Post by Moodyman90 Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:31 am

I was more annoyed at the prices of the Vigor upgrades.

I understand would have had more money if I didn't upgrade my weapons as much as I did, but it always seemed like "Hmmm... save up to 1500+ for one Vigor upgrade.... or upgrade my weapons three to four times for the same cash?"
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Post by Guest Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:51 am

Cptadder wrote:Really kind of annoyed how the upgrades are so widely spaced, carrying around 1500 because I don't use devils kiss or anything else but murder and possession at the moment.

Yeah, it kinda sucks. They have all these cool powers in the game and you don't have access to them for the most part.

Moodyman90 wrote:I was more annoyed at the prices of the Vigor upgrades.

I understand would have had more money if I didn't upgrade my weapons as much as I did, but it always seemed like "Hmmm... save up to 1500+ for one Vigor upgrade.... or upgrade my weapons three to four times for the same cash?"

That was pretty much my philosophy on my first playthrough. I'd rather spend my money on any upgrade then lose it because I died a bunch.

I started on hard mode by the way.

Kippershy wrote:I never really dabbled in vigors much, only occasionally when I needed the support.
carbine was my weapon of choice... One shot kills to most enemies with that beast of a gun.
seriously, carbine mixed with shotty or occasional rpg or crankgun.... Godly combo.
repeater was uselss though. Burst gun even more so.
hand cannon was okay at times.

only tears I ever used were fire support ones, with only using cover for one fight and only medkits for the final

I'd recommend a second playthrough if you got the time then. The Vigors can be very fun to use, especially when you get the upgrades like chain lightning and what not.




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Post by Cptadder Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:45 am

Speaking of prices yes, in 1912 the yearly salary was 1500$. I always wondered why Booker was so insistent on saving Elizabeth since he comes across over 30,000$ by games end since that's over 700,000$ in 2012 money. It makes me wonder exactly how much did Booker get into debt? Anna after all is what he really sold but how much exactly did he get into debt?
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Post by Moodyman90 Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:00 pm

That's actually a good point but I'm chalking it up to that deep down Booker knew he was there to save Anna, but tear sickness and the memories he created to fit into that dimension inflated the debt in his mind.

Or he owed a blood debt. Life for a life... oh god he thought he sold his daughter into slavery....
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Post by Guest Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:13 pm

Cptadder wrote:Speaking of prices yes, in 1912 the yearly salary was 1500$. I always wondered why Booker was so insistent on saving Elizabeth since he comes across over 30,000$ by games end since that's over 700,000$ in 2012 money. It makes me wonder exactly how much did Booker get into debt? Anna after all is what he really sold but how much exactly did he get into debt?

I actually thought about that earlier. The majority of what you collected were silver eagles (They might be made of silver but the name might just be denoting the color) you did pick up gold and silver bars from time to time, but if he did just go home with a couple bags of this currency would it really be worth anything to the people he was indebted to?

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Post by Cptadder Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:20 pm

Last wrote:

I actually thought about that earlier. The majority of what you collected were silver eagles (They might be made of silver but the name might just be denoting the color) you did pick up gold and silver bars from time to time, but if he did just go home with a couple bags of this currency would it really be worth anything to the people he was indebted to?
We were not yet off the gold standard until 1933, before then Silver eagles were pretty much 99% silver so even if the coinage was not recognized (Silly because the Columbines kept American money) the fact remains they are still 99% silver and thus you can melt them down and take the value that way.
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Post by Guest Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:39 pm

Cptadder wrote:
Last wrote:

I actually thought about that earlier. The majority of what you collected were silver eagles (They might be made of silver but the name might just be denoting the color) you did pick up gold and silver bars from time to time, but if he did just go home with a couple bags of this currency would it really be worth anything to the people he was indebted to?
We were not yet off the gold standard until 1933, before then Silver eagles were pretty much 99% silver so even if the coinage was not recognized (Silly because the Columbines kept American money) the fact remains they are still 99% silver and thus you can melt them down and take the value that way.

Do you have any evidence that backs up the fact the silver eagles are made of silver? We're dealing with an alt universe here.

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Post by Cptadder Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:38 pm

Last wrote:

Do you have any evidence that backs up the fact the silver eagles are made of silver? We're dealing with an alt universe here.
We have them now, we believed in the gold and silver standards then. Why would we keep the racism, the class roles, the racism, the feeling and beliefs of the times, the racism... So why do we keep all of the other parts of 1900 America but not keep the Silver in our Silver Eagles?

I have no evidence sans logic, in the 1900s Silver eagles were 99% silver. In fact most coinage which was silver based was 99% silver because silver was still seen as intrinsically valuable and used in coinage as even if you did not trust American money you'd still have a coin made of silver. Logically if you don't trust American money but still want something worth something you'd use a coinage backed by a precious metal.

More importantly if they were NOT made of silver Fink would have no need to pay his workers tokens because if he could simply use Fink-dollars then he'd not need to set up the company store.
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Post by Admiral Stoic Rum Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:28 am

*PULLS HAIR* I was totally not prepared for this
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Post by Guest Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:14 am

Cptadder wrote:*Snip*

I do have a few ideas to why that could be but I'd rather drop the discussion. I learned very recently that I don't have a very large capability to understand economics.


Admiral Stoic Rum wrote:*PULLS HAIR* I was totally not prepared for this

Yeah 1999 mode is a pain in the ass. I died a few times in one of the very early levels.

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