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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:02 am

Sorry, my mistake. I'm not sure how this would affect her reproductive capacity.
Also, should that be "clone" instead of "blank," since the blanks were not templated to anyone's genetics?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Blue Heron on Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:07 am

The terms seem to be used interchangeably, trueblood called the clones of his family, scotch tape, and BJ blanks.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:40 am

Blanks can't grow. That's why they can't get pregnant, their bodies can't undergo the change in hormones and etc. They come out whole and don't change. I don't know what Sanguine did, but it was clearly much more complicated than was done for BJ.
If it hadn't been, Psychoshy would still be an infant or would require constant surgeries as she grew and her blank parts didn't.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Derpmind on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:22 am

swicked wrote:Blanks can't grow. That's why they can't get pregnant, their bodies can't undergo the change in hormones and etc. They come out whole and don't change. I don't know what Sanguine did, but it was clearly much more complicated than was done for BJ.
If it hadn't been, Psychoshy would still be an infant or would require constant surgeries as she grew and her blank parts didn't.

That seriously doesn't make any sense. Not growing is the same as being dead. Your skin cells are constantly dying and being regrown. As you eat food you grow some fatty tissues, and they eventually get broken down. Blood gets replenished and wounds heal over. You can use whatever handwavy reason for Ghouls you want, but considering that the Blanks were harvested for organ implants in completely normal ponies, that explanation just doesn't work out.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Silver136 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:43 am

Derpmind wrote:
swicked wrote:Blanks can't grow. That's why they can't get pregnant, their bodies can't undergo the change in hormones and etc. They come out whole and don't change. I don't know what Sanguine did, but it was clearly much more complicated than was done for BJ.
If it hadn't been, Psychoshy would still be an infant or would require constant surgeries as she grew and her blank parts didn't.
That seriously doesn't make any sense. Not growing is the same as being dead. Your skin cells are constantly dying and being regrown. As you eat food you grow some fatty tissues, and they eventually get broken down. Blood gets replenished and wounds heal over. You can use whatever handwavy reason for Ghouls you want, but considering that the Blanks were harvested for organ implants in completely normal ponies, that explanation just doesn't work out.

I think that what he's saying is that they don't grow in terms of aging. A blank comes out fully grown, already matured. It's not going to go through natural aging processes like puberty.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Technowolf on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:59 am

Silver136 wrote:
Derpmind wrote:
swicked wrote:Blanks can't grow. That's why they can't get pregnant, their bodies can't undergo the change in hormones and etc. They come out whole and don't change. I don't know what Sanguine did, but it was clearly much more complicated than was done for BJ.
If it hadn't been, Psychoshy would still be an infant or would require constant surgeries as she grew and her blank parts didn't.
That seriously doesn't make any sense. Not growing is the same as being dead. Your skin cells are constantly dying and being regrown. As you eat food you grow some fatty tissues, and they eventually get broken down. Blood gets replenished and wounds heal over. You can use whatever handwavy reason for Ghouls you want, but considering that the Blanks were harvested for organ implants in completely normal ponies, that explanation just doesn't work out.

I think that what he's saying is that they don't grow in terms of aging. A blank comes out fully grown, already matured. It's not going to go through natural aging processes like puberty.

Then that means they'd never die of old age.

Did Trueblood accidentally discover the secret to immortality?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:23 am

I'm not sure how to answer. I've asked Somber a lot of these questions but I'm not sure if or how he could put the answers in the story. They aren't particularly important to the narrative.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Silver136 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:58 am

Technowolf wrote:
Silver136 wrote:
Derpmind wrote:
swicked wrote:Blanks can't grow. That's why they can't get pregnant, their bodies can't undergo the change in hormones and etc. They come out whole and don't change. I don't know what Sanguine did, but it was clearly much more complicated than was done for BJ.
If it hadn't been, Psychoshy would still be an infant or would require constant surgeries as she grew and her blank parts didn't.
That seriously doesn't make any sense. Not growing is the same as being dead. Your skin cells are constantly dying and being regrown. As you eat food you grow some fatty tissues, and they eventually get broken down. Blood gets replenished and wounds heal over. You can use whatever handwavy reason for Ghouls you want, but considering that the Blanks were harvested for organ implants in completely normal ponies, that explanation just doesn't work out.

I think that what he's saying is that they don't grow in terms of aging. A blank comes out fully grown, already matured. It's not going to go through natural aging processes like puberty.

Then that means they'd never die of old age.

Did Trueblood accidentally discover the secret to immortality?
No, nonono, the blanks come out fully grown. Their body is that of a matured pony. They would wear out and die of old age eventually, but they won't grow, not like a normal pony. All things wear out eventually, that's all aging really is.

Well that's my belief anyway. Take it as you will.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vinylshadow on Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:16 am

Plot twist

All blanks are based on Whisper's genetics which caused a mutation which allows them to concieve after a few years pass since their creation
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:48 pm

Was thinking...

If Blackjack survives the end of PH, judging by her recent meltdown, she's going to have to deal with a PTSD so bad that I'm not sure she'll ever be able to overcome it.

I mean, I'm pretty sure she's never going to stop doing her Security thing, as otherwise she'd quickly self-destruct from sheer self-loathing (among other things).

Thoughts?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vinylshadow on Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:09 pm

She'll probably die in childbirth
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:36 pm

Now -that- would be pointlessly tragic.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vinylshadow on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:13 pm

That's how I'm wired, unfortunately
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:24 pm

Silver136 wrote:
Technowolf wrote:
Silver136 wrote:
Derpmind wrote:
swicked wrote:Blanks can't grow. That's why they can't get pregnant, their bodies can't undergo the change in hormones and etc. They come out whole and don't change. I don't know what Sanguine did, but it was clearly much more complicated than was done for BJ.
If it hadn't been, Psychoshy would still be an infant or would require constant surgeries as she grew and her blank parts didn't.
That seriously doesn't make any sense. Not growing is the same as being dead. Your skin cells are constantly dying and being regrown. As you eat food you grow some fatty tissues, and they eventually get broken down. Blood gets replenished and wounds heal over. You can use whatever handwavy reason for Ghouls you want, but considering that the Blanks were harvested for organ implants in completely normal ponies, that explanation just doesn't work out.

I think that what he's saying is that they don't grow in terms of aging. A blank comes out fully grown, already matured. It's not going to go through natural aging processes like puberty.

Then that means they'd never die of old age.

Did Trueblood accidentally discover the secret to immortality?
No, nonono, the blanks come out fully grown. Their body is that of a matured pony. They would wear out and die of old age eventually, but they won't grow, not like a normal pony. All things wear out eventually, that's all aging really is.

Well that's my belief anyway. Take it as you will.

No. The blood of discord breaks the rules. A blank won't die of old age. Nor will they ever breed. Of course, without a soul, they're just an immortal animal. You need project eternity and some way to transfer the mind. But yes, if you can accept the sterility, then you could live for ever as a blank. You could, of course, be killed, but blanks are very resilient. Blanks also cause all kinds of discord just by their being. How can you have a normal family or a normal community if a few members live forever, but others don't. Should they be revered like Celestia, ignored, treated differentially?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vinylshadow on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:04 pm

Screw the rules, we have Discord
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:03 pm

Blue Heron wrote:
“Yes.  I built the first stasis pod prototype myself, in my garage actually, just as Chimera was set up for Fluttershy… so that nopony would ever have to go through what she did.  I don’t know what happened between them; he was always so cool around her that it never occurred to me they were in a relationship.  We perfected the stasis pods, so we thought; I should have been rich from the invention... but ah well.  Then came fusion spells to improve on ponies.  Blanks were introduced last as a source of organs and test material.  I was able to fuse the infant with a healthy pegasus blank of her own body, and that stabilized her enough to survive.”
Well, that's interesting. That makes Whisper a unique entity -- a chimera of her own cells and those of a flux-cloned version of herself. She'll be roughly half of each, so presumably, the original cells would be able to construct the necessary placental system. That suggests a potential "out" for BJ, by killing Cogs, sticking the fetus in stasis, Chimerically fusing BJ's new body with a sample of the old, then using a surrogacy spell to insert the fetus into her new-but-partly-old body. Hella complicated, but doable...


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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:12 pm

SilentCarto wrote:so presumably, the original cells would be able to construct the necessary placental system.

Did BJ not shoot her body so full of Hydra that towards the end it couldn't heal properly? That was the explanation, right? Hydra (If I'm remembering correctly) excelerates your natural healing processes to the point where they will eventually (the sooner kind) cease function. I don't think those original cells can construct anything.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:20 pm

@Somber:
It seems to me like it's just the blood of an immortal. Discord's inborn chaos has been entirely sanitized resulting in a body all but immune to change in its entirety.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Rayndalf on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:29 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
Blue Heron wrote:
“Yes.  I built the first stasis pod prototype myself, in my garage actually, just as Chimera was set up for Fluttershy… so that nopony would ever have to go through what she did.  I don’t know what happened between them; he was always so cool around her that it never occurred to me they were in a relationship.  We perfected the stasis pods, so we thought; I should have been rich from the invention... but ah well.  Then came fusion spells to improve on ponies.  Blanks were introduced last as a source of organs and test material.  I was able to fuse the infant with a healthy pegasus blank of her own body, and that stabilized her enough to survive.”
Well, that's interesting. That makes Whisper a unique entity -- a chimera of her own cells and those of a flux-cloned version of herself. She'll be roughly half of each, so presumably, the original cells would be able to construct the necessary placental system. That suggests a potential "out" for BJ, by killing Cogs, sticking the fetus in stasis, Chimerically fusing BJ's new body with a sample of the old, then using a surrogacy spell to insert the fetus into her new-but-partly-old body. Hella complicated, but doable...
Wouldn't be easier for Blackjack to regain control of her old body, and transplant her old brain and reproductive system (baby included) into her clone?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:35 pm

@Rayndalf

I like that because that's less complicated, but I would like to say that I don't think those organs could survive without the magical mobile life support system they are currently attached to. For the Hydra reason.

Also I have my doubts that a fetus could survive that kind of trauma. I'm assuming you're suggesting it's transplanted along with the reproductive bits?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:47 pm

Somber wrote:No.  The blood of discord breaks the rules.  A blank won't die of old age.  Nor will they ever breed.  Of course, without a soul, they're just an immortal animal.  You need project eternity and some way to transfer the mind.  But yes, if you can accept the sterility, then you could live for ever as a blank.  You could, of course, be killed, but blanks are very resilient.  Blanks also cause all kinds of discord just by their being.  How can you have a normal family or a normal community if a few members live forever, but others don't.  Should they be revered like Celestia, ignored, treated differentially?
Well, that's interesting... that must be an effect of being fully made from Flux, since Flux-derived IMP clearly didn't mess up the alicorns that way. They, though, are still made from their original cells under the influence of heavy mutation.

Last wrote:Did BJ not shoot her body so full of Hydra that towards the end it couldn't heal properly? That was the explanation, right? Hydra (If I'm remembering correctly) excelerates your natural healing processes to the point where they will eventually (the sooner kind) cease function. I don't think those original cells can construct anything.
BJ used Hydra a handful of times, but she was hesitant every time, and I don't think the use was continuous enough to cause problems. Hydra sticks together injuries and replaces lost tissue with fast-regenerated cells; you can think of it like a patch -- it holds everything together and replaces function temporarily, but the original cells will presumably regrow at their usual speed and eventually replace the hydra cells. The trouble is that the hydra cells are particularly susceptible to Enervation, which means Enervation will cause the repairs to fail quickly. Rampage mentioned it causing people to melt, which I take to mean that the hydra cells will also replace naturally dying cells throughout the body. Losing those cells would normally be harmless -- the originals had died anyway -- but someone who relied on Hydra long-term could become so permeated with hydra cells that their body would simply fall apart from mass cell death under a level of Enervation that wouldn't normally kill a pony.


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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:00 pm

SilentCarto wrote:BJ used Hydra a handful of times, but she was hesitant every time, and I don't think the use was continuous enough to cause problems.

Ummm, but the part where Glory tried to regrow BJ's eyes with the drug after sinking the steel ranger's battleship. It had no effect despite using multiple doses. How could you not take that to mean that the issues involved with using the drug were in fact present? Unless you were to ignore that scene entirely.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Rayndalf on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:10 pm

Last wrote:@Rayndalf

I like that because that's less complicated, but I would like to say that I don't think those organs could survive without the magical mobile life support system they are currently attached to.  For the Hydra reason.

Also I have my doubts that a fetus could survive that kind of trauma. I'm assuming you're suggesting it's transplanted along with the reproductive bits?
I'm not sure either her brain or her reproductive system have been specifically targeted by hydra, would they need the life support?
Or is Blackjacks old body so messed up that the life support would be necessary?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:45 pm

@Rayndalf I don't think the effect of Hydra is localized to the injection site. Could be wrong, but in the scene that I just mentioned I'm fairly certain Glory didn't stick the needle into BJ's eye sockets. So I would guess that was true and the Hydra had an effect throughout her entire body.

I'll admit I'm assuming, but I would question those organs long-term viability outside the body they are in. I'd personally be surprised if they made it the next nine months (Horses have a 12 month gestation period.)

As for those cells creating entirely new organs? I personally think that's right out.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by pokeperson1000 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:58 pm

From what i remember about an early on explanation (before they even reached the flank), Hydra is a drug that speeds up immediate healing, but temporarily shuts down the body's natural regeneration for quite a while even after it wears off. natural regen doesn't shut off forever, just lasts much longer than the healing effect of the drug does.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Silver136 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:38 am

Hydra is made from a chemical extracted from a gland on a hydra. I do believe it was explained that using hydra exposed your body to some form of taint, and the reason it didn't work on the Seahorse is because Blackjack was essentially a giant ball of tumor at that point. Too much taint, too much radiation.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:51 am

According to the FO:E wiki I was completely wrong. Hydra causes tumors not a shut down of healing. Unless the wiki's wrong but I don't really have much of a desire to dig through PH's pages to find out. So I was wrong.

Still as far as a transplant goes I have to say that would probably cause enough trauma to the fetus to kill it.

As for growing the necessary organs because you fuse an indvidual with a blank. I don't know. I really doubt it. Because then there's no downside to being a blank. The end of PH would be the creation of an immortal society.






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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:59 am

Last wrote:Ummm, but the part where Glory tried to regrow BJ's eyes with the drug after sinking the steel ranger's battleship. It had no effect despite using multiple doses. How could you not take that to mean that the issues involved with using the drug were in fact present?  Unless you were to ignore that scene entirely.
The way I read it, that last blast of Taint from Folly mutated her to the point that she turned into something that did not officially have eyes. At least, not as far as whatever template Hydra uses to reconstruct missing organs was concerned. That theory is supported by whatever was trying to grow in her empty eye socket back when she met with Finders Keepers.

Last wrote:According to the FO:E wiki I was completely wrong. Hydra causes tumors not a shut down of healing. Unless the wiki's wrong but I don't really have much of a desire to dig through PH's pages to find out. So I was wrong.
No, you're correct.

“Only unicorns can perform magical healing, and there are few who can perform the service.  As a result, pegasi and earth ponies found a way to regenerate injuries using a hormonal extract of certain glands from hydras, hence the name.  The harvesting is difficult enough, but the real peril is that the chemical suppresses normal recovery long after it wears off.  Your body’s natural healing processes fail, and you die cell by cell.”  She looked scared.  “One Hydra is bad enough, but two or three… you can drop dead on your hooves.”

It also delivers a small dose of Taint, since halting normal healing and the possibility of melting in an e-field weren't enough "fun". It's a pretty insidious kind of addiction -- if you don't have a safe place to hide out until your normal healing processes kick back in, you could easily get in a situation where you needed another Hydra every time you picked up an injury, which extended the no-healing time and made you more likely to get injured again and need more Hydra...


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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:02 am

Silver136 wrote:Hydra is made from a chemical extracted from a gland on a hydra. I do believe it was explained that using hydra exposed your body to some form of taint, and the reason it didn't work on the Seahorse is because Blackjack was essentially a giant ball of tumor at that point. Too much taint, too much radiation.
I think it was tainted hydra blood, actually. Discord blood plus hydra blood.
The result was super stem cells. They can fill in as anything, regrowing entire limbs or organs like a hydra can regrow a head. They do not speed up any natural healing, but fully replace dead and/or missing cells.
Thus yeah, they frequently cause tumors, though they are often benign.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:12 am

swicked wrote:I think it was tainted hydra blood, actually. Discord blood plus hydra blood.
Well, the hydra was swimming around in taintwater, anyway. I don't think it's mixed farther than that, though I believe the hydra was mutated relative to what we saw in Pinkie Keen. However, it's repeatedly described as a hormone extract rather than simply blood, for what that's worth.

Huh. I wonder if there was some Zebra regeneration potion that included "brain of hydra" as one of the components. You could even harvest the same hydra over and over, since its heads grow back...
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