Sister forumWhat makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
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What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by cb5 Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:12 pm
It's no secret that there's a ton of FoE fanfics and that; some not so great, but others are really good. However the question of why people like it is kind of up for debate, but what do you personally like about them and what do you think makes a good FoE fanfic good?
Personally I like to think the thing that makes the fanfics is that their morality plays with a good-deeds archetype hero in that the hero is a mortal who tries their best even though they constantly screw up and to many is a villain, whereas the villains mean well.
Littlepip constantly fucked up and even got civilians killed by accident, and was a drug addict. Blackjack was a rapist who was brought up to think it was okay, got one filly ripped apart, another crippled, and a million other things.
Red eye, Trixie, Sanguine, Cognitum all mean well too.
Also character development. All the action in the world can't save a story if the main character doesn't have a personality.
But anyways that's just my opinion. What do you think makes a good fallout equestria fanfic?
Personally I like to think the thing that makes the fanfics is that their morality plays with a good-deeds archetype hero in that the hero is a mortal who tries their best even though they constantly screw up and to many is a villain, whereas the villains mean well.
Littlepip constantly fucked up and even got civilians killed by accident, and was a drug addict. Blackjack was a rapist who was brought up to think it was okay, got one filly ripped apart, another crippled, and a million other things.
Red eye, Trixie, Sanguine, Cognitum all mean well too.
Also character development. All the action in the world can't save a story if the main character doesn't have a personality.
But anyways that's just my opinion. What do you think makes a good fallout equestria fanfic?
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Kippershy Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:55 am
Haven't really got the time to sit down and give you a proper answer... but...
Knowing when to end the god damn story and knowing how to STICK to that story.
Knowing when to end the god damn story and knowing how to STICK to that story.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by O. Hinds Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:08 am
Hm...
Well, beyond the things that make writing in general good (Punctuation: Learn to use it properly, internet!), the first thing that comes to my mind is worldbuilding. I particularly like worldbuilding that I can fold into my headcanon, but I enjoy even incompatible worldbuilding. My favorite part of PH is still not an action scene or emotional conversation but an offhoof mention of the details of some bilingual signage. Also, I consider a certain reaction I had to part of MN7 to be good evidence of this preference:
As a related aside, one of my favorite pieces of non-FoE fanfiction is Travels through Azeroth and Outland, which I continued reading even after I otherwise got bored of WoW. The story is basically nothing but worldbuilding.
Well, beyond the things that make writing in general good (Punctuation: Learn to use it properly, internet!), the first thing that comes to my mind is worldbuilding. I particularly like worldbuilding that I can fold into my headcanon, but I enjoy even incompatible worldbuilding. My favorite part of PH is still not an action scene or emotional conversation but an offhoof mention of the details of some bilingual signage. Also, I consider a certain reaction I had to part of MN7 to be good evidence of this preference:
- MN7 spoiler!:
- Normally, I quite like MN7. And then there's the chapter spent entirely (minus a tiny bit at the end) inside Murky's head. The writing quality took no great plunge, the characters suffered no derailment, I don't dislike Murky to begin with, I wasn't losing interest in the story in general, etc... but I just couldn't keep myself interested in the chapter; I ended up skimming most of it, skipping large parts to get to the end. I was rather puzzled by this, but I came to the conclusion that I'm just not reading MN7 for what's in Murky's head; I'm reading it for the setting, for the details of Murky's life in Fillydelphia and his view of the world. If the only thing he's viewing is himself... Well, I'm aware that many people quite enjoyed the chapter and don't hold it at all against Fuzzy, but for me it just wasn't sufficient.
As a related aside, one of my favorite pieces of non-FoE fanfiction is Travels through Azeroth and Outland, which I continued reading even after I otherwise got bored of WoW. The story is basically nothing but worldbuilding.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Scienza Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:50 pm
The single most important thing for me, and this applies to all fiction, is good characters. The character is the very foundation of a story, and a complex one who lives and breathes can make all the difference.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Icy Shake Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:45 pm
It's hard for me to identify what makes a good story for me. While I can echo you on punctuation (it's taken effort for me to just accept Somber's odd love of the [independent clause];[sentence fragment] construction, for instance), and would add correct spelling and word and idiom use ("literally" means "literally," not "figuratively," and the correct usage of "x if not y" and "x let alone y" spring to mind), I can't say that those are truly required, given that if I don't offer at least some slack on the technical front, almost no pony fiction will pass the hurdle. Really, for me, it's okay as long as it isn't so bad it draws me out of the story. Though, this requirement has probably risen for me over time, as the average technical proficiency has risen.O. Hinds wrote:Hm...
Well, beyond the things that make writing in general good (Punctuation: Learn to use it properly, internet!), the first thing that comes to my mind is worldbuilding. I particularly like worldbuilding that I can fold into my headcanon, but I enjoy even incompatible worldbuilding.
It's made more difficult by the need to encompass the FoE stories I've enjoyed (I haven't read many, but I've liked most of the ones I've read, at least for a while). In a way, it comes down to what qualities FoE, PH, and parts of Pink Eye and MN7 share. World building may be a factor, as may the ability to write comedy. Good, deep, well-developed characters? I'd like to say so, but that's not something that all (or even the majority) of those share. A decently constructed plot is something I think they largely have in common. Yet I don't think that's it. Maybe it depends on the genre: PE succeeded, to the extent that it did for me, not on the same axes as the others, but largely as a goofy comedy. FoE didn't have all that much levity that I remember: it took itself very seriously (it also had first-mover advantage and excellent timing for its publishing). I guess I can't define what makes a good FoE story for me, beyond that it succeed within the genre it works, distinct from the world it inhabits. Sure, there are the baseline requirements that the characters be at least a little interesting and the technical proficiency not be too appalling, but beyond that, if some combination of setting, characters, plot, and theme stand out fairly well, then I can work with it. In a pinch, though, I'd have to say world building, as that has been one of my favorite aspects of books from LOTR to Dune to The Chronicles of Chrestomanci and more.
Spoilered because I like to follow the crowd.O. Hinds wrote:
- MN7 spoiler!:
- Spoiler:
- I'm a mixed bag on MN7. I started reading it because it was so highly recommended, stopped after chapter 11 or 12 because it was such an investment and I felt it was basically okay, and caught up again a few months ago because "why not?". But regarding that chapter, I can say some specific things that really hurt it for me. First (and this one isn't strictly related to that chapter), I think it's hard to get invested in a battle that the side you are supposed to be supporting doesn't care about: the fact that Big Red was getting killed in the arena meant nothing to me, because he was basically trying to throw the fight(s) for what I believed was a stupid reason. Following this up, Murky was almost killed because the plot said so. I cannot think of another way to justify that happening: Crazy Dude hated him because crazy, but why would he have been able to fix the participant order to include someone Red Eye had a direct interest in not dying? Etc. It came out of nowhere, for no reason, or so I felt, and that severely undermined everything that happened as a result of it. So now that I've covered the problems I had with getting us to that chapter, I'll go into the chapter itself. First off, there's the simple advice I'd give to never refer to things that happen in your journey to the center of the mind as metaphorical: doing so underlines the unreality of what's happening, and we need to believe that what's going on is real, even if it's not taking place in the physical world. Beyond that, I'd say that any conflict within the mind should either be something that we might reasonably not have seen before or have been set up. In this case, it's just ruined for me because his primary antagonist is the him that wants to give up and die. But that's come up for him, what, twice by that point? I just can't buy that our plucky protagonist is in any real danger of lapsing into suicidal defeatism, which makes that aspect of the chapter completely pointless, as the conclusion is foregone and I don't even care how we get to the inevitable end. Then there was some other stuff involving Shackles, and maybe Big Red's ninja lieutenant, but by that time I'd already checked out and was skimming to see if anything that mattered happened.
On the plus side, the following couple chapters were much better, and were only spoiled by the gigantic inclusion of Pinkie Pie near the end, and I'll readily state that the fact that ruined it for me is my fault, not the writer's, since it's so hard to write Pinkie Pie in a way I can even begin to enjoy.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Icy Shake Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:23 am
I know. That version of the Nightmare is easily the worst I've ever read, and might be something like the theoretical minimum outside of troll fiction, and maybe including that if you require it retain some resemblance to the Nightmare Moon of the show. And the ending (well, the climax) was full of what the fuckery, even by the story's own massively inflated standards.swicked wrote:I'll tell you right now, I read Pink Eyes (skimmed, mostly) because it was short.
Pink Voice (IIRC) was interesting, but I disliked every other character. There particularly seemed to be a lot of random characters coming together at the end that I never figured out the reason for. Then, you know, the nightmare.
But it was short and easy to skim, so I can't hate on it too much.
swicked wrote:
- MN7 Hinds section spoiler thing:
I disliked the same part in MN7, Hinds. I tried to do a reading review of it. It was negative. Very negative.
So I quit after a short bit, then Fuzzy asked why I didn't do a review. A couple times, in fact.
Meh.
I like pretty much all the rest of it, though, and Fuzzy has a way of making some scenes just entirely enthralling to me.It didn't want that, did it? I remember it wanting Murky to go back to being a slave. It was what Murky used to be, before he was "woken up" by Littlepip. An unthinking thing, hardened against his pain. Everything you'd expect a born slave to be that had never seen freedom before. It wanted the dreamer that hoped for a better life to fall into the deepest recesses of Murky's mind so that they can survive Shackles and Fillydelphia as they always have... as a simple slave.Icy Shake wrote: In this case, it's just ruined for me because his primary antagonist is the him that wants to give up and die.
It didn't want to feel these fresh feelings of pain and loss anymore.
- And yet still more MN7 spoilerage because reasons:
- I don't know. Maybe? I thought it wanted him to accept some kind of bland, okayish afterlife for slaves, based on the context of him being implied to have died. I can see how that could map to continued living as he did before Littlepip, though.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by cb5 Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:39 am
Actually I was talking to a couple of my friends that aren't that into the FoE community and they actually gave me a list that to them as the average brony, non-FoE community member, just an average reader reading FoE fanfics.
Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.
The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.
Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.
The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.
- If you are a hardcore FoE fan it may piss you off:
- No seriously it may very well piss you off badly:
- no seriously:
- your final warning only click if you have a thick skin:
1)Insisting that fallout equestria is canon to mlp.
The reasons ranged from person to person to person. Some saying that the people who claim FoE is canon are, "the most fucking retardily obnoxious sacks of crap the brony fandom has ever spawned". To people saying, "It's a fanon fanfic so it's not canon".
2)Mary Sue self inserts, or self inserts in general.
This got way more hate than number one, and it really annoys people, and the comments were not very nice to the FoE community at all. I may hate mary sues as well, but the language used I wouldn't even use. . fucking shit do they kiss their moms with that mouth?
3)The extended lore.
Short version, "NERDS!".
4)No quality control.
I have to disagree with this one, but the reason stated by them was that they think almost all FoE fanfics are terrible.
5)Too long.
I have to disagree with this one as well, but the reasons stated by them in a coherent manner were complaints about needing to "cut out the fat", or "have too much filler arcs".
6)Too many lesbians.
Okay this one I HAVE to disagree with. Chapter 20.5
7)The endings for the fanfics are rushed and have no real emotional pay off for reading that long.
Okay this one I do have to agree with.
8)Too dark.
Huh? This one I have to disagree with as well, but the reasons given were stating that mlp is supposed to be a "happy" story about friendship and that, "if you wanted gore then go watch a gore movie instead".
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by O. Hinds Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:44 am
Oh, the punctuation was just an example. I may still have not found any maximum amount of grimdark I can tolerate, but I can be very sensitive to mechanical errors. For many well-reviewed stories, I can't get past the first paragraph.Icy Shake wrote:While I can echo you on punctuation (it's taken effort for me to just accept Somber's odd love of the [independent clause];[sentence fragment] construction, for instance), and would add correct spelling and word and idiom use ("literally" means "literally," not "figuratively," and the correct usage of "x if not y" and "x let alone y" spring to mind), I can't say that those are truly required, given that if I don't offer at least some slack on the technical front, almost no pony fiction will pass the hurdle.
re Pink Eyes:
I never actually got to the end of Pink Eyes… and from what I've heard, that's a good thing.
[spoiler="Guess what?"]From what I recall of the bit I read prior to starting skimming, I think that swicked is more right. On the other hoof, I'm not sure that there's actually much of a difference there; if we assume that the choice is irrevocable, the only difference between the two views of the choice is that one of them has Murky's body still walking around.[/quote]
Oh, and do you read ATR at all, Icy Shake?
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by cb5 Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:49 am
I sort of like Pink Eye's ending. The trying to use the spell similar to the elements of harmony was definitely cheesy and urgh, but I kind of liked how puppysmile's friend has to accept that she's dead dead and let her go. If they had cut out the spell it would have been better.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by O. Hinds Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:49 am
…How is extended lore a bad thing? No, seriously. That is not a rhetorical question. The others I either agree with (in base form if not in vitriol or eagerness to tar all FoE fics with the same brush) or can at least see possible reasons for (Though why one who dislikes grimdark and lesbianism proceeds to read a story in this fandom (which does seem to have rather a pronounced fondness for lesbian horses) and tagged "grimdark" and then believes that their encounter with grimdark and lesbianism is somehow the story's fault…), but this one completely baffles me.cb5 wrote:Actually I was talking to a couple of my friends that aren't that into the FoE community and they actually gave me a list that to them as the average brony, non-FoE community member, just an average reader reading FoE fanfics.
Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.
The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.I only agree with half of the points, but I can see their points.
- If you are a hardcore FoE fan it may piss you off:
- No seriously it may very well piss you off badly:
- no seriously:
- your final warning only click if you have a thick skin:
1)Insisting that fallout equestria is canon to mlp.
The reasons ranged from person to person to person. Some saying that the people who claim FoE is canon are, "the most fucking retardily obnoxious sacks of crap the brony fandom has ever spawned". To people saying, "It's a fanon fanfic so it's not canon".
2)Mary Sue self inserts, or self inserts in general.
This got way more hate than number one, and it really annoys people, and the comments were not very nice to the FoE community at all. I may hate mary sues as well, but the language used I wouldn't even use. . fucking shit do they kiss their moms with that mouth?
3)The extended lore.
Short version, "NERDS!".
4)No quality control.
I have to disagree with this one, but the reason stated by them was that they think almost all FoE fanfics are terrible.
5)Too long.
I have to disagree with this one as well, but the reasons stated by them in a coherent manner were complaints about needing to "cut out the fat", or "have too much filler arcs".
6)Too many lesbians.
Okay this one I HAVE to disagree with. Chapter 20.5
7)The endings for the fanfics are rushed and have no real emotional pay off for reading that long.
Okay this one I do have to agree with.
8)Too dark.
Huh? This one I have to disagree with as well, but the reasons given were stating that mlp is supposed to be a "happy" story about friendship and that, "if you wanted gore then go watch a gore movie instead".
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by cb5 Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:57 am
The best put argument was, "When a author has to walk on egg shells". If a author has to walk on egg shells when writing I have to totally agree with here.O. Hinds wrote:…How is extended lore a bad thing? No, seriously. That is not a rhetorical question. The others I either agree with (in base form if not in vitriol or eagerness to tar all FoE fics with the same brush) or can at least see possible reasons for (Though why one who dislikes grimdark and lesbianism proceeds to read a story in this fandom (which does seem to have rather a pronounced fondness for lesbian horses) and tagged "grimdark" and then believes that their encounter with grimdark and lesbianism is somehow the story's fault…), but this one completely baffles me.cb5 wrote:Actually I was talking to a couple of my friends that aren't that into the FoE community and they actually gave me a list that to them as the average brony, non-FoE community member, just an average reader reading FoE fanfics.
Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.
The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.I only agree with half of the points, but I can see their points.
- If you are a hardcore FoE fan it may piss you off:
- No seriously it may very well piss you off badly:
- no seriously:
- your final warning only click if you have a thick skin:
1)Insisting that fallout equestria is canon to mlp.
The reasons ranged from person to person to person. Some saying that the people who claim FoE is canon are, "the most fucking retardily obnoxious sacks of crap the brony fandom has ever spawned". To people saying, "It's a fanon fanfic so it's not canon".
2)Mary Sue self inserts, or self inserts in general.
This got way more hate than number one, and it really annoys people, and the comments were not very nice to the FoE community at all. I may hate mary sues as well, but the language used I wouldn't even use. . fucking shit do they kiss their moms with that mouth?
3)The extended lore.
Short version, "NERDS!".
4)No quality control.
I have to disagree with this one, but the reason stated by them was that they think almost all FoE fanfics are terrible.
5)Too long.
I have to disagree with this one as well, but the reasons stated by them in a coherent manner were complaints about needing to "cut out the fat", or "have too much filler arcs".
6)Too many lesbians.
Okay this one I HAVE to disagree with. Chapter 20.5
7)The endings for the fanfics are rushed and have no real emotional pay off for reading that long.
Okay this one I do have to agree with.
8)Too dark.
Huh? This one I have to disagree with as well, but the reasons given were stating that mlp is supposed to be a "happy" story about friendship and that, "if you wanted gore then go watch a gore movie instead".
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Scienza Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:15 am
To some extent, yes, but that's kinda something you accept when you write derivative fiction. You don't always have to be completely rigid to the original (otherwise shipping would not exist), but there are eggshells that need to be walked on.cb5 wrote:The best put argument was, "When a author has to walk on egg shells". If a author has to walk on egg shells when writing I have to totally agree with here.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Icy Shake Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:50 pm
I don't think I've ever seen anyone insist that FoE is canon to the show. I can't imagine why anyone would hold that position; heck, large parts of the show aren't canon to FoE unless you want to make some logical contortions.
As for the "walking on eggshells": I agree that there are limits to what should be changed when making a derivative work. However, the insistence that nothing ever ever be altered in the least bit, even if it wasn't fully established (and it's worth noting that since FoE is, at heart, an apology written by Littlepip based on her own limited perspective and presumably written in a way to best serve her own needs, there's some real leeway that can be applied to most things she didn't see with her own eyes). And that is a position I've seen taken, which strikes me as "funny," considering FoE is based on taking major liberties with what we haven't seen in the show.
As for the rest: Sues happen in all genres, and there may be fewer than one suspects in FoE stories, but never forget Sturgeon's Law; on extended lore, I'm with Hinds, in that I don't see how it can be a bad thing unless you want to reconcile dozens or hundreds on independent fanfics that were never meant to play together; Sturgeon's Law; I can accept that many may be longer than need be: I'd say that much of the beginning of FoE could be trimmed down in favor of a more satisfying ending and some insight into who Littlepip was before she left the Stable, PH might have some stuff to cut (Hightower was over inflated, I think, maybe a couple of chapters in the twenties could be combined, and I'm sure that a couple thousand words or so could be trimmed from each chapter without too much harm), and MN7 is way too long for what it has going on, but for the most part I see that as a second order problem at worst in most cases; more diversity in that respect would be good, but that's hardly the worst thing in the world and something that you can't really deal with as an individual writer; I'm working from a small sample size, but this seems like it might be drawing mostly from FoE itself and maybe Pink Eyes, but I'll give that one the benefit of the doubt since I haven't actually seen any long ones end particularly well; congratulations, you've identified your genre preferences as a problem, not the works themselves (also, they might not be as dark as you think).
Oh, and Hinds . . . ATR? Maybe I have, but if so the acronym isn't clicking with me at the moment.
As for the "walking on eggshells": I agree that there are limits to what should be changed when making a derivative work. However, the insistence that nothing ever ever be altered in the least bit, even if it wasn't fully established (and it's worth noting that since FoE is, at heart, an apology written by Littlepip based on her own limited perspective and presumably written in a way to best serve her own needs, there's some real leeway that can be applied to most things she didn't see with her own eyes). And that is a position I've seen taken, which strikes me as "funny," considering FoE is based on taking major liberties with what we haven't seen in the show.
As for the rest: Sues happen in all genres, and there may be fewer than one suspects in FoE stories, but never forget Sturgeon's Law; on extended lore, I'm with Hinds, in that I don't see how it can be a bad thing unless you want to reconcile dozens or hundreds on independent fanfics that were never meant to play together; Sturgeon's Law; I can accept that many may be longer than need be: I'd say that much of the beginning of FoE could be trimmed down in favor of a more satisfying ending and some insight into who Littlepip was before she left the Stable, PH might have some stuff to cut (Hightower was over inflated, I think, maybe a couple of chapters in the twenties could be combined, and I'm sure that a couple thousand words or so could be trimmed from each chapter without too much harm), and MN7 is way too long for what it has going on, but for the most part I see that as a second order problem at worst in most cases; more diversity in that respect would be good, but that's hardly the worst thing in the world and something that you can't really deal with as an individual writer; I'm working from a small sample size, but this seems like it might be drawing mostly from FoE itself and maybe Pink Eyes, but I'll give that one the benefit of the doubt since I haven't actually seen any long ones end particularly well; congratulations, you've identified your genre preferences as a problem, not the works themselves (also, they might not be as dark as you think).
Oh, and Hinds . . . ATR? Maybe I have, but if so the acronym isn't clicking with me at the moment.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Stringtheory Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:55 pm
All that remains, Camo's story which he hasn't updated in a long time now...Icy Shake wrote:Oh, and Hinds . . . ATR? Maybe I have, but if so the acronym isn't clicking with me at the moment.
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Re: What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?
by Icy Shake Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:58 pm
Ah. Then no, but it's been at the top of my FoE reading list for a while, apart of course from continuing the reread of PH and current updates for PH and MN7.
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