Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Ironmonger]

I'm finding that Robynne Draws blog laughable, and I'm not entirely sure why. I've got mixed and conflicting feelings on this and many subjects.

[Valikdu]

*picture*

Source

And the flame wars continue.

And this picture caused a ton of "HOW DARE YOU YOU PIECE OF SCUM" reactions. No, really. People flipped tables over this little jab.

That's... well, I don't know how to categorize that fact. I've already used "pants-on-head retarded".

[Harmony Ltd.]

Most potential rapists are messed up in the head, playing out fantasies in which the person they want to have sex with is somehow okay with it, or don't really mean "no", etc. They don't see themselves as raping.

Actually, the informations I have point to the contrary : Rapists know full well the person doesn't consent, and relish in the fact that they are imposing their will on someone.

It's not about sexual satisfaction. It's about imposing your will on someone in one of the most horrible fashion, and getting away with it.

Basically, the deep end of bullying.

[Frost]

It's not really a question of if they offend me or not. It's more that such jokes (rape jokes, sexist jokes, etc...), even if they are made in good fun and without ill intentions, participate to a culture that validate those things.

See, rapist men (I don't know about rapist women) think that all men are inherently rapists, and that they (the other men) only posture as "good people" for the sake of social standing. When you do rape jokes, you validate them in their thoughts, support their worldview, and indirectly encourage them to be rapists.


I know it's really not a fun thing to think about, and I know saying such a thing makes me sound as a "no-fun-allowed" kind of guy, but really, I think rape jokes should be avoided.

With a bit of imagination, it's easy to find other things to joke about.

....Eh, sorry, but I'm inclined to disagree.

People sling around jokes about violence and murder all the time. It's far, far less controversial to make a joke about maiming or killing someone than it is to make a joke about raping someone. Looking at most media, you'd think murder was just a fact of life but rape involves first selling your soul to Satan. No one ever argues that murderers are encouraged or validated by murder jokes.

Plus....the folks we're talking about are rapists. I don't think everyone standing in a circle, holding hands and singing songs about how rape is bad is going to prevent them from rapin' away at folks, and they're going to keep on rapin' whether or not they're 'validated' or 'encouraged' by a joke they heard online. By definition, they don't care that they're thought of as monsters, or no matter how many 'movements' that Internet Badasses try to put together.

[Katarn]

I think only persons with lack of humour could be offended by Ask Molestia tumblr <.<

[Harmony Ltd.]

Your allegation makes roughly as much sense to me as a murderer seeing the popularity and theme of most of the video game industry and deciding that killing someone can't really be that bad.

And the thing here, is that these people actually believe that EVERYONE else is like them, that they would rape if they could get away with it ; and these jokes validate this line of thought in them.

It's not that they decide it "can't be that bad", but that they think they can get away with it.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Erf, I'd have to trawl the web for that.

Here's what a quick google search gives :

++http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/inside_the_mind_of_a_serial_rapist/
++http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073755753&contentId=13134058&tabId=13
++http://www.coloradotech.edu/Student-Life/CTU-Blog/January-2013/Understanding-Rapists

[Harmony Ltd.]

Edit:
Also, people almost never commit crimes unless they're pretty sure they can get away with it, so that's not unique to rapists.

How do you reconcile that with the fact a non negligible number of murderers turn themselves in to the police, at least in the case of "spontaneous" murders (non-premeditated) ?

[Frost]

It's not really a question of if they offend me or not. It's more that such jokes (rape jokes, sexist jokes, etc...), even if they are made in good fun and without ill intentions, participate to a culture that validate those things.

See, rapist men (I don't know about rapist women) think that all men are inherently rapists, and that they (the other men) only posture as "good people" for the sake of social standing. When you do rape jokes, you validate them in their thoughts, support their worldview, and indirectly encourage them to be rapists.


I know it's really not a fun thing to think about, and I know saying such a thing makes me sound as a "no-fun-allowed" kind of guy, but really, I think rape jokes should be avoided.

With a bit of imagination, it's easy to find other things to joke about.

....Eh, sorry, but I'm inclined to disagree.

People sling around jokes about violence and murder all the time. It's far, far less controversial to make a joke about maiming or killing someone than it is to make a joke about raping someone. Looking at most media, you'd think murder was just a fact of life but rape involves first selling your soul to Satan. No one ever argues that murderers are encouraged or validated by murder jokes.

Plus....the folks we're talking about are rapists. I don't think everyone standing in a circle, holding hands and singing songs about how rape is bad is going to prevent them from rapin' away at folks, and they're going to keep on rapin' whether or not they're 'validated' or 'encouraged' by a joke they heard online. By definition, they don't care that they're thought of as monsters, or no matter how many 'movements' that Internet Badasses try to put together.

Re-posting this, as I think it got missed

[Harmony Ltd.]

No, I did not miss it.

But heh, if you decide to see me as the "Thought Police", then so be it.

I'm not going to go on a crusade, I'm not going to hit you over the head.

But I'll still stand by this position, and avoid joking on certain subjects when I think it shouldn't be joked upon. And when I'll hear a joke like that, I'll just say one thing : "dude, not funny". No more, no less.

Simple as that.

[Frost]

No, I did not miss it.

But heh, if you decide to see me as the "Thought Police", then so be it.

I'm not going to go on a crusade, I'm not going to hit you over the head.

But I'll still stand by this position, and avoid joking on certain subjects when I think it shouldn't be joked upon. And when I'll hear a joke like that, I'll just say one thing : "dude, not funny". No more, no less.

Simple as that.

I'm not trying to accuse you of being "Thought Police" or anything similar. I'm simply stating that the 'serial rapists' that you've been mentioning aren't going to care one little bit about how grumpy people get with them, or how many jokes people tell. They're the sort of people that like seeing someone beneath them screaming and crying in pain and humiliation; they'll be fucked up no matter how many picket signs we make.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Of course.

But the idea, basically, is to change the way we think, as a society, in such a way that people never begin to think that way.

So, really, "Though Police".

Of course, it's not going to be as simple as "not telling rape jokes". It will require far more efforts, in a much broader scopes, and will intersect with a lot of other issues such as sexism, classism, racism, etc...

However, I think we can agree it's for a good cause ?

And, heh, it's an easy start, no ? To avoid telling some jokes, even if we may find them funny ?

[Frost]

Of course.

But the idea, basically, is to change the way we think, as a society, in such a way that people never begin to think that way.

So, really, "Though Police".

Eh, this may make me sound like some sort of paranoid type living in a bunker in the woods, but I'm really not a fan of concerted efforts to eliminate entire concepts from human thought, no matter how good the cause is when it starts.

[Katarn]

Well, for example Russian internet is censored by government 'for good cause', protecting (and by protecting i mean delete entirely from net, if possible, block what not possible to delete, even in-game drugs aka stimulators are banned (google eve online drugs banned) kids from information (read 'propaganda') of suicide, drugs, homosexualism.

It's all under banner of 'good cause' and forced on everyone.

Maybe we should just drop this topic?

have some trixie:

[Harmony Ltd.]

@ Frost : Understandable.

But not acceptable.  

(joking)

[Kippershy]

Here's my latest.
Have to colour it yet, gonna make it really do Eos justice if I can get the hang of colouring these things properly.
What ya'll think?

I'm thinking of leaving a colourless version for if anyone else wants to use it to colour it to a different alicorn type.

[Frost]

@ Frost : Understandable.

But not acceptable.  

(joking)

"2+2=5"

"They've gotten to him!"

"Nah, he's just a fucking idiot."

[CamoBadger]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Harmony Ltd.]

Just to close the subject, I'll quote a conversation from elsewhere :

I've never bothered to check it out for myself, because ditching rape jokes isn't a particularly onerous burden, so: is there actual psychological research backing up the 'rape jokes encourage rapists' idea?

I don't know.

I think it's about the whole rape culture thing and how going "ha ha rape lol" is a bad thing and normalizes it plus the effects it would have on actual rape victims seeing something like this made light of and people thinking something so traumatic is just a joke.

I'm sure [person 3] can explain it far better than I can, though.

it's got two parts to it. one part is that a lot of people that have been raped are pretty offended by rape jokes, so you shouldn't say them, in general, because you're being an asshole to no gain. the other part is that it, plus the attitude that rape is committed by some nebulous entity called "rapists", who are distinguishable figures from humanity as a whole, help perpetrate the culture of silence that surrounds sexual assaults, especially those by family and friends. if rape is a joke, then why should people feel bad about it, after all, etc. i don't think that there's a definable daisy-chain of causality between some grotesque tumblr and sexual assaults, but i do think that such tumblrs maintain a culture in which sexual assaults are treated poorly.

[Harmony Ltd.]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

?

[Katarn]

I think Camo either refer to Kip's vector or...something else.

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