Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Ketchup]

Alas, in Star Trek, all weapons(and medical implements, really) could be replaced by transporters.
But they only ever use them for moving stuff.

[Stringtheory]

guys, I just came up with an amazing, totally crazy idea: a gun which teleports its bullets/projectiles straight into the target, heck you wouldn't even need proper bullets, just objects that were small enough to fit into the teleportation chamber.
it would use an advanced range-finding system to compute how far it needed to teleport the 'projectile', plus there would probably also be some kind of manually setting the distance.
the major down side is that the amount of energy needed to teleport the 'projectile' would increase with distance pretty fast, and that you'd be burning through batteries very quickly, and the faster you fire would decrease the accuracy of the teleport

this is all assuming teleportation is possible in whatever setting this is and could be harnessed by something vaguely technology like

Well, there was that one projectile gun from an episode of Star Trek DS9, which was casually turned into a SUPER GUN by adding a transporter to it that saves the projectile's momentum upon teleportation...

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/TR-116_rifle

...and then it was forgotten and never spoken of again, because it was too overpowered...

[upd] Ninja'd by Ketchup

yes, but the version I'm talking about wouldn't have any forward momentum, it would be more of 'oh, part of your brain was just replaced with a 9mm bullet'

[Sindri]

Alas, in Star Trek, all weapons(and medical implements, really) could be replaced by transporters.
But they only ever use them for moving stuff.

Between fabricators and transporters anyone with half a brain could do literally anything instantly. Instead they were used as an alternative to shuttles and kitchens, because that setting and logic never intersected.

[Valikdu]

Many problems would just go away if they did use things creatively, and there would be far less possible plots for episodes.

At least Stargate has an excuse that the beam transporters are alien technology and do only the things that the Asgard allow to be done.

[Ketchup]

yes, but the version I'm talking about wouldn't have any forward momentum, it would be more of 'oh, part of your brain was just replaced with a 9mm bullet'

Just transporting the pieces out that needed to be moved to place the object in a position to do damage would probably do the same thing injury-wise, anyway. Unless you place it in a cavity, which probably wouldn't be as effective.

[StoneSlinger88]

In that sense, you could just use pebbles and rocks you find on the ground. Why waste material making bullets when a hunk of dirt will do just fine?

*thinks back*

Wait... We've seen this before. I can't even remember if it was in FO:E or PH, but I believe Unity's alicorns were battling a Hydra and one teleported itself into one of the Hydra's heads.

[Stringtheory]

yes, but the version I'm talking about wouldn't have any forward momentum, it would be more of 'oh, part of your brain was just replaced with a 9mm bullet'

Just transporting the pieces out that needed to be moved to place the object in a position to do damage would probably do the same thing injury-wise, anyway. Unless you place it in a cavity, which probably wouldn't be as effective.

depends on what kind of teleportation we're using, if it's the kind where an teleporting object forces the matter occupying its new space away from it, then yes, but if we're going by the type where the already existing matter gets replaced, then it's an entirely different matter entirely, plus having a bullet in you can still cause damage after you've been shot

In that sense, you could just use pebbles and rocks you find on the ground. Why waste material making bullets when a hunk of dirt will do just fine?

the teleporter can only teleport one solid object at a time, so a hunk of dirt wouldn't work, plus it was designed for teleporting a specific size and shapped object made out of a certain material, so using something else would either require more energy, or make it less accurate

[Harmony Ltd.]

guys, I just came up with an amazing, totally crazy idea: a gun which teleports its bullets/projectiles straight into the target, heck you wouldn't even need proper bullets, just objects that were small enough to fit into the teleportation chamber.
it would use an advanced range-finding system to compute how far it needed to teleport the 'projectile', plus there would probably also be some kind of manually setting the distance.
the major down side is that the amount of energy needed to teleport the 'projectile' would increase with distance pretty fast, and that you'd be burning through batteries very quickly, and the faster you fire would decrease the accuracy of the teleport

this is all assuming teleportation is possible in whatever setting this is and could be harnessed by something vaguely technology like

I designed a gun like that for Fallout Equestria.Though it's more of a "rocket launcher" than a gun : it use "canisters" which contain the warhead and magical crystals as a source of energy. Upon firing the magical energy stored in the crystal is transfered to the gun's magical capacitors, and the whole canister is "fired". Need for an ejection mechanism : Zero.

The advantage is that crystals hold a lot of (magical) energy in a compact package, and given the canisters only hold the warhead and the crystals (all the complex guiding mechanisms being in the gun itself), you can carry, like, 100-200% more ammunitions than with a classical RPG.


The ultimate in Anti-Armor & Bunker Busting technologies, in a nice & compact package, designed for commandos operating behind enemy lines.

No trail of smoke + the ability to shoot inside buildings from OUTSIDE the buildings, one or two kilometers away + the capability to infiltrate commandos behind enemy lines = maximum paranoia in the enemy ranks and lots of resources wasted in trying to research and widely deploy anti-teleportation wards.


Though it cost two arms to pay for one gun and its ammunitions.

[Stringtheory]

guys, I just came up with an amazing, totally crazy idea: a gun which teleports its bullets/projectiles straight into the target, heck you wouldn't even need proper bullets, just objects that were small enough to fit into the teleportation chamber.
it would use an advanced range-finding system to compute how far it needed to teleport the 'projectile', plus there would probably also be some kind of manually setting the distance.
the major down side is that the amount of energy needed to teleport the 'projectile' would increase with distance pretty fast, and that you'd be burning through batteries very quickly, and the faster you fire would decrease the accuracy of the teleport

this is all assuming teleportation is possible in whatever setting this is and could be harnessed by something vaguely technology like

I designed a gun like that for Fallout Equestria.Though it's more of a "rocket launcher" than a gun : it use "canister" which contain the warhead and magical crystals as a source of energy, upon firing the magical energy stored into the crystal is transfered to the teleporter's capacitors, and the whole canister is "fired". Need for an ejection mechanism : Zero.

The advantage is that crystals hold a lot of energy in a compact package, and given the canisters only hold the warhead and the crystals (all the complex guiding mechanisms being in the gun itself), you can carry, like, 100-200% more ammunitions than with a classical RPG.


The ultimate in Anti-Armor & Bunker Busting technologies, in a nice & compact package, designed for commandos operating behind enemy lines.

exactly, except my version would be a sniper/rife sized weapon, thereby making armor useless, perhaps it could use the normal explosion of the gunpowder as an energy source, thereby freeing you from needing some kind of energy source, such as a spark battery

[Harmony Ltd.]

I made a slight edit while you were posting :

No trail of smoke + the ability to shoot inside buildings from OUTSIDE the buildings, one or two kilometers away + the capability to infiltrate commandos behind enemy lines = maximum paranoia in the enemy ranks and lots of resources wasted in trying to research and widely deploy anti-teleportation wards.

It would be more of a "terror weapon", designed to maximize psychological effects and lead the enemy in a costly arms race, than something destined to be widely deployed on the battlefield. At least that's how I see it.


As for the question of momentum, there's none in my idea. The only "setting" there is would be the timer : detonation upon arrival or after a set amount of time.

There may even be specialist ammunition which could be remotely detonated. Imagine :

A squad discreetly launch a few dozen canisters at a building 500 meters away (at this range the "CEP" would be roughly 2 meters), and at a given signal, detonate them all at once.

As I said : aiming for psychological effects.

[Stringtheory]

No trail of smoke + the ability to shoot inside buildings from OUTSIDE the buildings, one or two kilometers away + the capability to infiltrate commandos behind enemy lines = maximum paranoia in the enemy ranks and lots of resources wasted in trying to research and widely deploy anti-teleportation wards.

mine would probably only have the range of a regular rife because of the size, but you could hook it up to a larger energy source for more range

[Harmony Ltd.]

perhaps it could use the normal explosion of the gunpowder as an energy source

Well, it would depend on the particulars of your teleportation technology, the power needed to displace an object, etc... But I doubt that gunpowder would be a practical mean of storing it - be it because of the medium's energy density or how efficient the mechanism you'd use to convert the energy coming from the explosion of the gunpowder into "teletransportation" energy would be.

[Stringtheory]

Well, it would depend on the particulars of your teleportation technology, the power needed to displace an object, etc... But I doubt that gunpowder would be a practical mean of storing it - be it because of the medium's energy density or how efficient the mechanism you'd use to convert the energy coming from the explosion of the gunpowder into "teletransportation" energy would be.

exactly, that's why I was saying before you'd need both the projectile and some kind of energy source, most probably some kind of battery, though your magic crystals solves that problem pretty well.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah, given teleportation in itself is pretty much magic to begin with, why not solve the problem with literal (space-)magic ? :v

If you're in a science-fiction setting, just say the crystals are ([technobabble] + [unobtainium]), that they are pretty rare and/or hard to find / manufacture.



Unrelated :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcCoquSEVQ
http://derpiboo.ru/272358

[Frost]

To be fair, if someone started groping my hands, I'd take theirs

[Harmony Ltd.]

To be fair, if someone started groping my hands, I'd take theirs

Way a head of you http://derpiboo.ru/263316

[Sindri]

I designed a gun like that for Fallout Equestria...

Three problems. First, teleportation only works to places the caster has seen, so the only buildings and vehicles you could fire into are those you've already been inside. Second, the teleport spell transports the caster and whatever they carry along with; it doesn't send things without you. Third, the spell is complex enough that even Unity alicorns can't do it unless they're purple, and only Twilight and Rarity are named as having done it on command without being alicorns.

So every single teleportation-based attack, by the rules laid out in Fallout Equestria, can only reach familiar territory, requires one of the best unicorns in the nation, and leaves that rare and valuable specialist dazed and exhausted at the target location. It would be a very useful tactic for extracting your best mages when your position was overrun. It might even be useful for retaking that position, or inserting a small spec ops team somewhere you've extensively reconnoitered. But it is never something that would be commonplace, it cannot be automated, and every single usage is a massive risk to your most valuable personnel. Teleporation is something very valuable to "player character types" but almost useless to a large fighting force (or at least one without the large volume of teleporters and telepathic abilities of Unity).

Because this is a setting that people actually thought about, instead of throwing in whatever sounded cool at the time.

[Stringtheory]

Yeah, given teleportation in itself is pretty much magic to begin with, why not solve the problem with literal (space-)magic ? :v

If you're in a science-fiction setting, just say the crystals are ([technobabble] + [unobtainium]), that they are pretty rare and/or hard to find / manufacture.



Unrelated :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcCoquSEVQ
http://derpiboo.ru/272358

I do think Schlock Mercenary, has a reasonable sci-fi teleportation system, which doubles as a FTL system: the Teraport

[Harmony Ltd.]

- Spell matrix
- Disposable magic crystals as energy source
- Complex targeting computer which try to compensate for the fact you're effectively using teleportation "blindly", but resulting in a targeting exponentially inaccurate the more the distance grow : if the CEP is around 2-5 meters at 500 meters (max practical range), at 600 meters it's already around 10 meters, at 700 meters it's something like 30 meters, etc...

=> The gun has been designed by a power which is neither Equestrian or Zebran, with a tech base differing from either
=> It never was intended to be widely issued, rather issued to only commandos for a select few missions


I DID think this through.

[Stringtheory]

- Spell matrix
- Disposable magic crystals as energy source
- Complex targeting computer which try to compensate for the fact you're effectively using teleportation "blindly", but resulting in a targeting exponentially inaccurate the more the distance grow : if the CEP is around 2-5 meters at 500 meters (max practical range), at 600 meters it's already around 10 meters, at 700 meters it's something like 30 meters, etc...

=> The gun has been designed by a power which is neither Equestrian or Zebran, with a tech base differing from either
=> It never was intended to be widely issued, rather issued to only commandos for a select few missions


I DID think this through.

all you would need is a good laser rangefinder and knowledge of just how far beyond the first solid object it hits you want the projectile to appear (couple inches if anti-personel) to figure out the teleport distance

[Sindri]

I do think Schlock Mercenary, has a reasonable sci-fi teleportation system, which doubles as a FTL system: the Teraport

Yep. And since the Schlock 'verse is also one that's actually thought out, terapedos were deployed immediately after the tech was introduced, followed shortly by the teraport area denial field to keep things practical and entertaining.

- Spell matrix
- Disposable magic crystals as energy source
- Complex targeting computer which try to compensate for the fact you're effectively using teleportation "blindly", but resulting in a targeting exponentially inaccurate the more the distance grow : if the CEP is around 2-5 meters at 500 meters (max practical range), at 600 meters it's already around 10 meters, at 700 meters it's something like 30 meters, etc...

=> The gun has been designed by a power which is neither Equestrian or Zebran, with a tech base differing from either
=> It never was intended to be widely issued, rather issued to only commandos for a select few missions


I DID think this through.

It's still a system which does not function by the rules laid out in the original FoE and PH, and a magic system which allows it and does not include inherent countermeasures is one which would lead to the collapse of the story if logic were applied to it.

Think of it this way: if your setting were that of a roleplaying game, a single munchkin would break the entire thing in a day. Why wouldn't the entire military command of two nations deploying megaspell weapons not do the same? It's a setting that doesn't work under any logical system other than the storybook flavor, where things happen if and only if the plot demands them rather than based on what would be reasonable or intelligent. Like star trek, or harry potter.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'm talking in the context of Fallout Equestria, where teleportation magic IS hard to do, or at least, hard to do without teleporting yourself into a wall or 5,000 meters in the air.

That's how I've always understood the trouble with Teleportation : not that you MUST absolutely have already seen the place before going there, but that you needed to have already seen it to have some sort of mental "beacon" to lock your magic unto. That otherwise, teleporting blindly was extremely hazardous.

As for the idea that the caster of a teleportation spell MUST be teleported, can you point me toward some quote that would imply so ? I was under the impression that the only reason why so far we have only seen people teleport themselves and others instead of teleporting things was because everytime we saw it used was as a mean of transportation rather than as something else.

[O. Hinds]

Okay, I've been given the Hamiltonian H(q,p)=((p^2)/2m)+(pA(q))+(B(q)) where p is the conjugate/canonical/generalized momentum of q. They want me to find the velocity, but ∂H/∂p=qdot+A(q), as far as I can tell. Can anyone spot what, if anything, I'm doing wrong?

[Harmony Ltd.]

It's still a system which does not function by the rules laid out in the original FoE and PH, and a magic system which allows it and does not include inherent countermeasures is one which would lead to the collapse of the story if logic were applied to it.

See my post above : I think we may have a different vision on said rules.

Think of it this way: if your setting were that of a roleplaying game, a single munchkin would break the entire thing in a day. Why wouldn't the entire military command of two nations deploying megaspell weapons not do the same?

Developed by a third, neutral power in secret not long before the bombs fell, and it was never widely deployed because of logistical issues : the power which developed it has for all of its history suffered from a chronic shortage of magical gems and wasn't going to waste them on ammunitions unless necessary to achieve some objectives.

[Sindri]

I'm talking in the context of Fallout Equestria, where teleportation magic IS hard to do, or at least, hard to do without teleporting yourself into a wall or 5,000 meters in the air.

That's how I've always understood the trouble with Teleportation : not that you MUST absolutely have already seen the place before going there, but that you needed to have already seen it to have some sort of mental "beacon" to lock your magic unto. That otherwise, teleporting blindly was extremely hazardous.

As for the idea that the caster of a teleportation spell MUST be teleported, can you point me toward some quote that would imply so ? I was under the impression that the only reason why so far we have only seen people teleport themselves and others instead of teleporting things was because everytime we saw it used was as a mean of transportation rather than as something else.

We have seen a Unity alicorn teleport herself into a Hydra's head and kill it. This means that teleporting things into solid objects is possible, and has been weaponized, but if it could be done without taking the caster along with there would have been no need for the Goddess to sacrifice one of her children. Therefore either the Goddess is an imbecile (significant evidence against), she enjoys killing off her alicorns for no reason whatsoever (pretty categorically false), or you cannot teleport something else away from you without coming along yourself, even with the combined magical knowledge and experience of the greatest unicorn researchers of the wartime generation and thousands of other mages across two centuries (no evidence against whatsoever).

[O. Hinds]

Ah, got it! The conjugate momentum can't be properly swapped out for (classically, constant mass) mqdot.

[Harmony Ltd.]

It's a setting that doesn't work under any logical system other than the storybook flavor, where things happen if and only if the plot demands them rather than based on what would be reasonable or intelligent. Like star trek, or harry potter.

Don't take it the wrong way, but we are talking about a crossover of both Fallout and My Little Pony. Neither are known for their "hardness" or making much sense in the first place.

Edit : or consistency

[Harmony Ltd.]

We have seen a Unity alicorn teleport herself into a Hydra's head and kill it.

When was that again ?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Are we sure the Alicorn was killed in that attack ?

[Frost]

Ah, got it! The conjugate momentum can't be properly swapped out for (classically, constant mass) mqdot.

=========>

My head

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