Derpmind needs some art help, please!

I need a little help here. I don't know how to do art, which extends to not even being able to draw a single curved line. So I just used paint's selection thing to cut it out and rotate it. Please tell me if either of these are not horrible, or if you're feeling really generous how I can make it look better.

attempts one and two:

I think they're both just fine. First one looks kinda... amused and surprised at the shenanigans it's witnessing. Second one looks like it's got an evil plan that will soon come into effect. Or possibly is thinking "dat flank."

As for editing programs, I only know how to use GIMP, and that was more from just fucking around with it for hours than from reading tutorials or know what I was doing. So, can't be much help there.

They both look good. Though the eyebrows on the first one give me the impression of a forced smile like she's talking with someone about a subject the other person doesn't know about and is essentially talking out of their ass, or the person is talking about something she has no interest in. I prefer that one.

The second one the eyebrows match the expression more I think.

Derpmind wrote:I need a little help here. I don't know how to do art, which extends to not even being able to draw a single curved line. So I just used paint's selection thing to cut it out and rotate it. Please tell me if either of these are not horrible, or if you're feeling really generous how I can make it look better.

attempts one and two:

Here's a extremely quick crash course on art basics. You know what a gesture drawing is? Well uhm the extremely short version of how to get better at art quickly is well for gesture drawings. Gesture drawings are extremely quick one line doodles that capture motion rather than actual form. If you can capture someone moving in one single line in 3 seconds you have this down. Then you have the basic proportions. To do this basically use stick figures and build on top of it. Essentially what you are doing here is that you are sketching out how long arms, legs and bones are building muscle on top of it like how in real life all of our body parts rely on our bones to give us shape. Then doodle how the muscles contract and relax. Then doodle the skin on top of that. Add in finer details/hair/eyelashes/clothes and presto.

As for better shading and highlighting you want to start off with a neutral gray background and build shadows and highlights rather than a white background.

Also a way to not have to do lines for your drawings is to color cordinate on the base layer each individual part then when you click with the magic wand tool, then go back to the layer you are working on you can just color in.

Finally finer details last. Basic structure first.

Almost forgot there's no such thing as talent. The word "talent" when it comes to art is a load of bullshit, it's all about practice.

Just to clarify, I didn't make make my avatar, I found it off the internet over a year ago. (No idea where, and I doubt I could find the original image anymore.) I was a little vague in the thread title because I wanted to make it a surprise and stuff, but I'm just asking for a little digital editing help. Thanks for all the advice about real art, but I can't do any of that to save my life. I've never spent enough time drawing to get past the ugly stick-figure stage.

Y'know... the question isn't if you can do art now, but if you want to do art at all.

It's all just a question of how much work and time you might want to sink in it.

cb5 wrote:Almost forgot there's no such thing as talent.  The word "talent" when it comes to art is a load of bullshit, it's all about practice.

It's not complete load of bullshit, it's merely overused and people usually attribute it too much importance.
In the end it all comes down to practice, patience and determination (which I don't have ), no question about that, where "talent" matters is at the beginning, where some people simply grasp some things more easily than others making it easier for them to even start practicing the thing.

It's like in RPGs where you pick your major skills and you start with some abilities slightly better than others. You might have a headstart, but in the end it all comes down to hard work.  



Formis ruins lives and dreams every day.

I don't think I'm doing it right.

Weeell, I think this is not as much a question of skill, as it is a question of whether you have a tablet or something to draw with on a computer, because trying to draw with a mouse is like trying to swim with all your limbs tied behind your back. It's not pleasant and definitely won't end well.

EDIT: Well, maybe if someone put a lifetime of training into it they could draw decently with a mouse, but it would never be a pleasant experience.

I appreciate the stuff about actual art, but what I need help with is choosing which of those two pictures to use for my avatar, or getting help modifying the picture more so it looks better.

I think I know what happened. Not everyone noticed the spoiler inside the spoiler; sorry about the confusion. I removed that, so now everything's in just the one spoiler tag thing.

They are both good, but the right one is definitely the best.

Formis_God wrote:

cb5 wrote:Almost forgot there's no such thing as talent.  The word "talent" when it comes to art is a load of bullshit, it's all about practice.

It's not complete load of bullshit, it's merely overused and people usually attribute it too much importance.
In the end it all comes down to practice, patience and determination (which I don't have ), no question about that, where "talent" matters is at the beginning, where some people simply grasp some things more easily than others making it easier for them to even start practicing the thing.

It's like in RPGs where you pick your major skills and you start with some abilities slightly better than others. You might have a headstart, but in the end it all comes down to hard work.  

Yeah, I agree.  Talent isn't bullshit, and hard work is very important.  That said, while talent certainly does help people grasp the initial concepts, it's effects don't stop there.  Talent can make a huge difference, particularly in very competitive fields, like art.

It is certainly true that an average person who gets a good education and studies/works really hard can do well in just about any field, unlucky circumstances notwithstanding.  That said, there are certain jobs that you just can't get no matter how hard you try, unless you have at least some talent that is useful in that field.  For example, there are plenty of high school athletes put everything they have into practice with the goal of making it into a college team, and similarly plenty of college athletes who give it their all with the goal of making it into a professional team.  Few actually make it, though.  It takes really hard work and at least some talent to become a professional athlete.  Even if some guys with average physical abilities manage to become professional athletes through super intense training and sheer force of will, there are also those born with physical abilities that are far below average, who could never become a professional athlete no matter how hard they try.

Of course, that doesn't just apply to physical abilities.  For example, you can't be a heart surgeon if you can't keep a level head and steady hands while under great stress, even if you are an otherwise skilled surgeon and know everything there is to know about heart surgery.  That said, through training and medicine some people could manage to get over being unable to keep a level head in such a situation.  Not all people, though.  Another example is politicians.  You can thoroughly study all the issues and learn tons about debate, and that will help a lot.  Charisma is incredibly important though.  You can study and train to improve your charisma, but having high natural charisma makes a HUGE difference, and isn't something that can simply be learned.

As far as art goes, you can work hard and become a good artist, but still bust your ass and make hardly any money.  My dad is a professional artist, a graphic designer to be precise.  He's a VERY hard worker and has some talent to boot, but even then he had a fairly low income at the old studio he used to work at in michigan.  Of course, things changed when that studio went out of business.  He had to find a new job, and ended up getting one at Hallmark Cards.  His old studio was basically a dead-end job, but at Hallmark he was able to work his way through the ranks and become a Consulting Designer, one of the best jobs an artist can get at Hallmark.  Of course, he has other abilities like people skills that definitely contributed to him getting that job.  That said, even though he has done very well as an artist, he still only has a somewhat above-average income.  On top of that, Hallmark has fallen on tough times, and is in real danger of going out of business in the not so distant future.  Despite all his hard work and success, he could still end up unemployed and looking for a new job.

The point is, art is a tough field to succeed in.  You could be a good artist, but still make very little money.  Becoming a successful artist requires hard work, no doubt, but you need luck as well, especially if you want to work freelance instead of joining a larger company.  You have to get noticed.  You have to get your art out there, and it has to stand out more than the competition.  Talent in addition to hard work means higher skill which means better art, which goes a long way towards getting noticed.  If you don't have a least some talent in art, you probably shouldn't pursue it as a career.  No reason you can't continue to do it as a hobby, though.

...

I wonder how many people actually bothered to read that.

TL;DR
Hard work is very important, and most people could succeed at most things if they had a good education and worked really hard.  Some things require talent in addition to hard work if you want a decent chance to succeed at them.  Maybe even luck as well.  A successful career as a professional artist is one of those things.

Derpmind wrote:I appreciate the stuff about actual art, but what I need help with is choosing which of those two pictures to use for my avatar, or getting help modifying the picture more so it looks better.

The right one would be my preferred, though I don't really see that much of a difference (in term of impact) between the two.

Necr0maNceR wrote:

I wonder how many people actually bothered to read that:

TL;DR
Hard work is very important, and most people could succeed at most things if they had a good education and worked really hard.  Some things require talent in addition to hard work if you want a decent chance to succeed at them.  Maybe even luck as well.  A successful career as a professional artist is one of those things.

Those with certain talent need to put less hard work into it in total to reach the same level, but in the end hard work is what matters most, because without it the skill can't grow and develop regardless of initial talents.
As for why I think talent matters most at the start, because it can play a major role in choosing what skills you decide to pursue (be it a career or just a hobby), being better at something than an average person makes you more likely to pursue that skill because it's easier than struggling with something you're average or worse at. Also, knowing you're better at it naturally than others is likely to increase your morale (I know I kinda repeat myself, but wanted to try a different wording).

Take me for example, as I'm one of those who break that probability. I will admit I have some talent for drawing, but I never went after it (be it for lack of determination of simply a choice) and decided to do IT stuff instead. I can draw somewhat decent pony pictures, but usually struggle with it, because my hands don't listen to me as they would if I practiced properly, even though I have the basic theory in head. That's "talent - hard work" for you".  

Also, I was addressing more the pure skill, not a professional career, or something competitive. Talent definitely makes some difference there, but when talking simply about mastering a skill simply for the sake of being good at it, then hard work and determination make the biggest difference of all.

PS: Why do I feel I repeat myself in every paragraph?

Can't help with any of the digital mumbo jumbo, but #2 is more open to interpretation (and, in my opinion, better) than the first one.

Formis_God wrote:

Spoiler:

Yeah, without hard work the talent will never be developed, unless it's some automatic skill, like excellent hearing, vision, or something like hyperthymesia (the ability to remember just about everything).  Of course, it goes without saying that a talent for a particular learned skill that goes undeveloped won't make you better at it than someone who has spent lots of time and effort mastering that skill.

Formis_God wrote:Those with certain talent need to put less hard work into it in total to reach the same level, but in the end hard work is what matters most, because without it the skill can't grow and develop regardless of initial talents.

Yeah, talent can make it so you don't have to work as hard as someone without talent in order to reach a certain level of skill.  The thing is though, if they both put in all their effort and work just as hard, the person with more talent will reach a higher skill level.  If they have signifigantly more talent than the person who doesn't, then they could reach a skill level that the person without talent couldn't, no matter how hard they tried.


If however, as you said, you are simply trying to raise your skill level in something high enough so that some would consider it mastered, and you aren't trying to be the absolute best you can be, enter a really competitive field, or trying to be one of the best at that skill, than simple hard work without talent will usually suffice.

yup going to have to go with the one on the right too.

Maybe get rid of the spot next to the lower eyebrow to make it look like less of a frown?

Derpmind wrote:I need a little help here. I don't know how to do art, which extends to not even being able to draw a single curved line. So I just used paint's selection thing to cut it out and rotate it. Please tell me if either of these are not horrible, or if you're feeling really generous how I can make it look better.

I like the angled/smirky one better. The first one looks more like, "I'm not sure if I should find this amusing or not..." while the second looks more like, "Your antics amuse me."

Now nothing I say will be as sardonic as it was before.

I have made a terrible mistake.

Plasticube wrote:yup going to have to go with the one on the right too.

Maybe get rid of the spot next to the lower eyebrow to make it look like less of a frown?

Didn't notice that detail; thank you.