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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:39 am

Downloaded Skill wrote:Its for the better. No offense Cobalt I read your post and it seemed like a personal critique of Kipper. Lets focus more on the topics and less on the people posting. It's better that way for everyone.
Eeyup.

Although I do regret losing that version of Crime and Punishment, I kinda liked it. It was punchy. Oh well, back to killing the alligator.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:40 am

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:
swicked wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Well that took all of like ten minutes.
...why did you delete your post?
It took ten minutes for me to decide it wasn't gonna be helpful and to regret having posted it. >_< Eeyup.
Eh, I read parts of it and I thought it was worthwhile.
But whatever.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:51 am

My problem right now is due to getting sick last sunday, mond, tues, finding out I am getting fired weds, finding out I owe taxes on thurdsay, getting a relapse of sick on friday, spending 6 hours fixing 54 saturday, and getting hit by a flat bed truck today and messing up my body and car today. I am more than a bit frazzled atm.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:55 am

Somber wrote:My problem right now is due to getting sick last sunday, mond, tues, finding out I am getting fired weds, finding out I owe taxes on thurdsay, getting a relapse of sick on friday, spending 6 hours fixing 54 saturday, and getting hit by a flat bed truck today and messing up my body and car today. I am more than a bit frazzled atm.
Jesus fuck, "understandable" would be an understatement. Sorry for the pithy turn of phrase, I know English teachers (rightly) hate those. Seriously, you okay? No concussion or broken bits or anything, car still functional enough?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:04 am

car drives. Car will probably be totalled as I think the frame is bent. got hit on the driver's side pasenger door. I feel like BJ after fighting the legate... minus the eye...

edit: I also have 140 papers to grade and 4 inches of other assignments to get in the computer during spring break...


Last edited by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by The Holy Tuna on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:11 am

I take it back. Given Somber's past week, Blackjack's endeavours are completely believable.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:28 am

@Somber
You take care of yourself, and maybe see a doctor if you can manage and haven't already. Car accidents are no joke - plenty of folks around here can explain the forces involved, I bet. Also, I know what that paperload is like by proxy - my mum's a high school chemistry teacher, and she brings her grading with her everywhere she goes. There's always more to do. (She is also where I learned about caffeine)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WavemasterRyx on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:38 am

Somber wrote:
I'm really sorry to hear things are going so badly, sir... Please try to take care of yourself... More than ever you have my best wishes for you.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:16 am

Somber, quick post cos on my phone and trying to eat breakfast...
you're focusing on all the wrong parts of my post, addressing the wrong complaints.
Blackjack doesn't havve enough tension because anything -she- comes against can't do enough to -her- ...so ramp up the difficulty by making the others the target of attacks, the ones who have a lot more risk to every strike they receive.

lets pretend P-21 dies because Blackjack fails to protect him...that would break status quo and really make things change.
every mc has plot armour but its getting to levels of abuse
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:19 am

... um, I have all the character deaths planned out.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:35 am

Somber, just read the rest of the thread. First of all, hope things get better for you soon and that your car is fixed up cheap. The fact you're alive at all is good, so you have that. As for the deaths thing, that's why I only said lets pretend.
the point of it is to say put others at risk, Blackjack has proven herself too hard a target.
make the enemies smart about it, attacking the weaker ones first.
even if you only wound them it would still scare Blackjack and change things up instead of constant focus soley on her during fights, also playing into her 'security saves' role.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:05 am

and if I put the others at risk or injure them significantly then BJ gets to angst.

And if you recall, when I TRIED to do that, we ended up with DBZebra.

So please... just... stop. I can take being a failure. My life is a practice in failure. I'm quite good at it. I don't need it rubbed in my face by you and 4chan.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CD on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:13 am

Somber wrote:BTW... at any point in the Oddessy did you think Ulysses was going to die?

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing earlier this morning. Wouldn't that be a twist if a drunken crewmember shanked him in a drunken fit?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:33 am

I actually wasn't trying to upset you with this, believe me or not.
yes i've passed on messages from 4chan but only because I believe they're an unheard voice that has some depth at times.

either way i'll stop now, upsetting you wasn't my goal but rather to try offer my help.
still, yeah, that's it from me.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:37 am

Oh, also - if you'd like to, send the message to me direct cobalt. Im honestly curious as to see what you had to say and i've got a thick skin and i'll find it hilarious more than anything else knowing me and my humour.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Derpmind on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:19 am

Kippershy wrote:I actually wasn't trying to upset you with this, believe me or not..
either way i'll stop now, upsetting you wasn't my goal but rather to try offer my help.

Ya know ponies, if you can't separate what you want to say from what might hurt people, maybe it's better to just not say anything at all. Figure out a way to talk about stuff without throwing daggers of negative emotions in everyone's face, please.

Kippershy, "I'll stop... now" isn't much of an apology.
Somber wrote:... um, I have all the character deaths planned out.
Calling it now: Lacunae's gonna get it after she opens up about herself.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:24 am

Kippershy wrote:Oh, also - if you'd like to, send the message to me direct cobalt. Im honestly curious as to see what you had to say and i've got a thick skin and i'll find it hilarious more than anything else knowing me and my humour.
Ach, I don't have it saved or anything. 'Twas a long bit involving psychoanalysis, theory on anarchism (secretly), and I think I complained about TVTropes and metagaming non-Joss Whedon media. Only, even less coherent than that sounds.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:52 am

Ketchup wrote:Well yes, but I don't remember her being aligned with the zebras, but rather with Equestria, though my memory is faulty at best.
Not just any zony.
Somber wrote:“Your father is Doctor Propos at the Roam Academy of Sciences and a part of the Caesar’s cabinet.  Your mother is the aunt of a ministry mare.  The suspicions of the ministries are unfortunate but not unreasonable,” he said in his soft, raspy voice.  It made Silver Stripe lean towards him a little.  “However, I am not here on behalf of the ministries.  I am here looking to recruit you for an alternative program of my own.  And, I assure you, I could not care less about your lineage.”

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
Somber wrote:Zony
Well yes, but I don't remember her being aligned with the zebras, but rather with Equestria, though my memory is faulty at best.
I could be remembering entirely wrong, but I thought she was involved with Fluttershy giving the megaspells to the zebra.
Well, at this point, you don't know that she was involved with any espionage. I know a bit more than nothing... but of course I can't tell you about that. :)

WavemasterRyx wrote:
Somber wrote:I don't even know why the fuck I'm writing this any more.
"For the people that actually care about it" is what I would say.

*hugs Somber lightly*
This.

Somber wrote:My problem right now is due to getting sick last sunday, mond, tues, finding out I am getting fired weds, finding out I owe taxes on thurdsay, getting a relapse of sick on friday, spending 6 hours fixing 54 saturday, and getting hit by a flat bed truck today and messing up my body and car today. I am more than a bit frazzled atm.
...My. Good luck, Somber; it sounds like you need some. Let us know if there's any way that we can help.

CD wrote:
Somber wrote:BTW... at any point in the Oddessy did you think Ulysses was going to die?

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing earlier this morning. Wouldn't that be a twist if a drunken crewmember shanked him in a drunken fit?
"Sing to me, muse, of that guy Odysseus who tried to board his ship to leave Troy, tripped due to his hangover, cracked his head open, and died! ...Huh, that was short. Anyone for a play?"
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:34 am

Because quite frankly, I wasn't.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:37 am

Damn it, that sounds interesting cobalt
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:26 am

Kippershy wrote:either way i'll stop now, upsetting you wasn't my goal but rather to try offer my help.
still, yeah, that's it from me.
Looking a bit more at your post, I see a lot of profanity and hostility.
You call Goldenblood a Marty Stu, even though that's been discussed to death. You're channeling 4chan's objections. He's not, I don't feel like explaining why.
You call Blackjack a Mary Sue. Other than her not dying, she doesn't do a single thing right, ever. I'm not sure where your argument's coming from.
You say you know she can't die before the end of the story... no shit, sherlock, it's her story. Tell me a story told solely from a single character's perspective where said character died before the end.

You claim it's too much like a JRPG... how is that helpful?

Move to her allies... fine. A semi-useful suggestion following a lot of blatant hostility. I don't see how this will particularly solve ANY of the problems you have brought up so far, though. Focusing on her allies will not make the danger to her own well-being more believable, nor make it lose this weird "JRPG" quality.
...honestly, the only JRPG I've ever played (at least, to completion) was FFX, and I didn't think it was that bad, but if 4chan is using it as an insult, it must be, right?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:33 am

Try this Kippershy: If I ever want to know what 4chan thinks of my story, I'll go there myself. Right now, what 4chan wants is going to kill my story and me. I write to live. It gives me something to hang on to.

Oh, and please tell them I was fired for the same reason PH sucks: I am as shitty a teacher as I am as shitty a writer.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:37 am

Somber wrote:edit: I also have 140 papers to grade and 4 inches of other assignments to get in the computer during spring break...

Please explain to me how you could have 140 papers to grade but be fired already, because this is confusing me.
Do teachers have to sign a contract that says they have to finish their work whether or not they still have their job and, therefor, are still a teacher?
Because this contradiction is baffling me.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:39 am

My last day is in June.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:41 am

Somber wrote:My last day is in June.
Ah.
Somber wrote:finding out I am getting fired weds
So you meant you found on Wednesday you were getting fired in June.
I thought you were saying you were fired Wednesday.
I gotcha, now.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:47 am

Wow, Somber. I'm sorry. Remember we're here for you, and all hope things start looking up for you soon.

On to the story, Somber's right about Blackjack—even before 33 I never actually expected her to die, instead seeing her suffering as the tension provider. Since then, again, her non-physical problems have been what keep me worried. I fear that she'll lose herself, or force away everyone she cares about in the pursuit of her plot-related goals, or give in to despair, or, yes, lose friends to violence. But Somber's on that, even independent of his earlier comments in this thread: in just the original 54 he set up the potential for an Enclave kidnapping of Glory as a looming threat, and both in the original chapter and the newest revision much of the threat from the Legate battle came from the potential harm to other members of Blackjack's party—though in the original that lead to "DBZebra" and in the latest revision it was more subtle, if still singled out as disturbing by at least one commenter.

Now, I do think that there are problems with just using Blackjack's friends as the source of perceived danger, in particular that, as I recall being said several times here, in general it makes sense to put only Blackjack, Rampage, and Deus directly in harm's way. As such, there need to be other considerations to keep the others nearby during fights, or up the ambush ratio must increase. Fortunately, things have been set up to allow this, with Blackjack being hopelessly unable to do many things for herself, and now the added need to keep an eye on Glory. Sure, there are cases to be made that P-21, Scotch, and Boo shouldn't be there, but I feel like those are based on tactical considerations, not on the characters' personalities.

Oh, and I recall that one major criticism has been that since Blackjack's cyberization, she's gone much more brute force in her M.O., relying less on cleverness, sneakiness, and luck than before. What's a great way to reintroduce those elements? Put her up against someone she can't just overpower. Which just happened, twice, and should lead to some payoff along those lines soon.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Meleagridis on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm

Criminy day thunder. Kippershy, run your words past someone who DOES NOT go to 4chan before you make them available to be seen. You defend that place pretty adamantly, but you're honestly reinforcing my own aversion to it.

The Holy Tuna wrote:
I was referring to Blackjack's fighting style in general, not that one instance, but I understand the confusion. Either way, you can't deny my point; since her upgrades, she's found that tanking damage and healing later is easier than planning strategically and executing surgically.

She's one of the monsters now. She's gone through what happens to heroes that survive- further and further away from human (er, pony) into something above it. Stonewing probably stopped any and all fancy flying tricks after he could soak up bullets like a tank. Doubt Doof remembered what cover meant when it basically amounted to 'his torso.'

Blackjack is now the same as a villain's brutish commander, one of the monstrous brutes that need to be conquered before getting to the evil mastermind. She is above and beyond the normal. In short: put past Blackjack anything you'd put past old Deus. Her challenges are more mental than physical now.

Least that's what I make of it.

Icy Shake wrote:Oh, and I recall that one major criticism has been that since Blackjack's cyberization, she's gone much more brute force in her M.O., relying less on cleverness, sneakiness, and luck than before. What's a great way to reintroduce those elements? Put her up against someone she can't just overpower. Which just happened, twice, and should lead to some payoff along those lines soon.

Now there's nothing wrong with this (and it just happened, so I guess this paragraph will be moot but meh). Still, after all this hubbub about fights and tough BJ, I honestly wouldn't mind if nothing could physically stand in her way. PH has demonstrated time and time again that death is not the only consequence- and often not even the worst. If Blackjack could curbstomp everything from raiders to dragons then what would that mean for her?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:35 pm

Somber wrote:Oh, and please tell them I was fired for the same reason PH sucks: I am as shitty a teacher as I am as shitty a writer.
Now I know that that's not true. You told me why you were fired, and I'm still firmly convinced that you were doing just what you ought to do but were treated unjustly.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Quotidian on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:38 pm

Somber wrote:My problem right now is due to getting sick last sunday, mond, tues, finding out I am getting fired weds, finding out I owe taxes on thurdsay, getting a relapse of sick on friday, spending 6 hours fixing 54 saturday, and getting hit by a flat bed truck today and messing up my body and car today. I am more than a bit frazzled atm.

Hoo lee shit. That... man. Good to hear you're still in one piece, though. Well, more or less. Anything we can do to help?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:49 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Somber wrote:Oh, and please tell them I was fired for the same reason PH sucks: I am as shitty a teacher as I am as shitty a writer.
Now I know that that's not true. You told me why you were fired, and I'm still firmly convinced that you were doing just what you ought to do but were treated unjustly.
...see, now I'm curious. -_-

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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