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S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:58 pm

Swicked, I lost you after the first sentence. Want to be more specific?

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:29 pm

Wow, I can see why one of my sisters dislikes Pinkie so much. Sure it's ok to be worried about a friend, but to ignore everything else for three days straight? Dependency issues much?

*says to self*
It's probably for comedic effect, just like why Rarity was such a jerk to make her sis carry all the stuff.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Ketchup on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:17 am

I think Pinkie Pie was more of an Element of Loyalty than Rainbow was all season so far, aside from this episode.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:11 am

Last wrote:Swicked, I lost you after the first sentence. Want to be more specific?
...I hate Rainbow Dash. She's an ass.
She wasn't one in this episode. More specifically, she wasn't one for the majority of the episode, as she occasionally has moments in episodes where she stops being an ass for a few seconds before falling back into her normal behavior.
Basically, I liked her for once. For one entire episode.
It's weird.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Orm on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:48 am

((It's a sign of the apocalypse!
Everyone to the bomb shelter!))
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:58 am

To be training under your heros like hat can be a humbling experience, it is the same when you meet a peer with at least as much skill as your own.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Ametros on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:48 am

The one moment that put me off was Rainbow Dash bouncing her friends off of that cloud trampoline. It would only work if they had the cloudwalking spell - which wouldn't have been necessary, as the facility was on a mountaintop... Sure, Twilight might not have known it was on a mountaintop, but SHE'S TWILIGHT. SHE DOESN'T JUST PRESUME THINGS, SHE RESEARCHES.

/rant
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:56 am

IIRC the clouds changed color once she "compressed" them. This may be an indication that they became a bit more substantial than normal clouds would be.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:22 pm

I kinda wish Fluttershy had gotten an honorary invite, since Dash had presented her to spitfire in the hurricane Fluttershy episode as being her best flier.

It would have distracted from the narrative, but I would have found that funny :P

Also, the addition of Horse Power was absolutely amazing. I just wish she could have gotten at least one "Oh yeah!"

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:26 pm

I don't think she would have went without Dash pressuring her into it.
Fluttershy didn't have the best experience with flight camps.

It would have certainly been an interesting story, but I think her addition would have changed it significantly.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:33 pm

Last wrote:I don't think she would have went without Dash pressuring her into it.
Fluttershy didn't have the best experience with flight camps.

It would have certainly been an interesting story, but I think her addition would have changed it significantly.
Nonono, I don't think she would have gone.
I think it'd of been funny to see her freak out and ask dash to tell them she's not going.
Then, when spitfire comments during the lineup that they're a flier short, rainbowdash would have to answer "Ah, yeah, about that..." and get a slight reprimand for having overstated Fluttershy's case, there :P

I definitely wouldn't have wanted her to be in the entire episode, dragging everyone else down.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:45 pm

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Yeah that is a shame Fluttershy's freak out's are always entertaining.

I'm not sure I like the idea of Dash being reprimanded for the (As I recall.) only time she was nice in season 2. But I did read

swicked wrote:"Ah, yeah, about that..."

in Dash's voice, so you must be on to something.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Formis_Fluttergod on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:29 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:IIRC the clouds changed color once she "compressed" them. This may be an indication that they became a bit more substantial than normal clouds would be.
If the clouds became only "a bit more substantial" they would only fall through "a bit slower" (Maybe a few miliseconds slower?).
Twilight must've cast the Cloud-Walking spell, otherwise this would have happened.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:09 pm

Who's to say pegasus don't have the ability to enchant clouds to hold stuff that would otherwise fall through them? Or even permanently do so? After all, they make cloud cities, entire buildings, all somehow sturdy enough hold up against... well, I guess mostly just the breeze. Still pretty sturdy for a cloud.
What, exactly, are cloud machines made out of, anyway? They might just not be inclined to bother with maintaining such an enchantment on an entire city of clouds, even if they technically could, since non-pegasus don't go up there very often.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:43 pm

Formis, don't forget you're talking about a world where there's whole cities made of clouds.

Clouds don't work the same in Equestria as they do in our world.


Though I have to recognize the comic was pretty funny in a dark way.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Formis_Fluttergod on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:51 pm

swicked wrote:Who's to say pegasus don't have the ability to enchant clouds to hold stuff that would otherwise fall through them? Or even permanently do so? After all, they make cloud cities, entire buildings, all somehow sturdy enough hold up against... well, I guess mostly just the breeze. Still pretty sturdy for a cloud.
What, exactly, are cloud machines made out of, anyway? They might just not be inclined to bother with maintaining such an enchantment on an entire city of clouds, even if they technically could, since non-pegasus don't go up there very often.
It's true that except cloud-walking and extreme flight skillz the pegasus magic hasn't been explored, like, at all. So at this point it's either working with something we already know exists (the Cloud-Walking spell), or speculate on the possibilities of Pegasus magic.

I think the cities are enchanted to somehow hold together and in place, in heights like that it's not merely a breeze. :D
However, some variation of the Cloud-walking spell making the clouds dense enough for non-egasi to walk on seems unnecessary, it's much easier to enchant the non-pegasi going there instead of maintaining an enchantment like that on an entire city.
Though I wonder how they'd enchant or maintain enchantments in the first place, there hasn't been any mention of Pegasi actively using any kind of magic.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Formis_Fluttergod on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:55 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Formis, don't forget you're talking about a world where there's whole cities made of clouds.

Clouds don't work the same in Equestria as they do in our world.


Though I have to recognize the comic was pretty funny in a dark way.
Perhaps, but sinse they never said otherwise, I'm gonna asume they work similarly to our clouds (which they did for the most part until the last episode's incident), at least until (if) they specify it.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:48 pm

I wonder, then, why Rainbow Dash didn't just move any cloud into the way. They'd of all supported them.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:58 pm

I think Swicked has a point here.

The others may have has the cloud walking spell placed on them, but it's clear Dash was not working on that assumption and she did do something to the cloud which we can clearly see by the color change.

Though on the other hand it's a little fishy that such a thing exists. I mean in "sonic rainboom" when the wonderbolts some of equestria's most talented and experienced fliers attempted to save rarity they flew directly at the flailing pony.

That of course resulted in them all being knocked out. In that situation wouldn't it have been much safer to use Dash's technique?

Also speaking of that episode (Because someone mentioned Twilight's planning and her not casting the cloud walking spell.) Twilight was aware of how delicate the wings were, shouldn't she have cast the cloud walking spell as a precaution?


Last edited by Last on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Cptadder on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:59 pm

swicked wrote:I wonder, then, why Rainbow Dash didn't just move any cloud into the way. They'd of all supported them.
RD was clearly doing something to the cloud, also the cloud did not hold them for long but bounced them. It's long been theorized that Pegasus magic is inherent and unconscious and gravity based. Perhaps RD changed the properties of the cloud after condensing them creating an updraft long enough to slow them until she could bounce them high enough for the other Pegasuses to catch.

Keep in mind RD did not just buck the cloud and sit back, she was actively condensing the cloud and spinning around it, the instant she stopped her friends got tossed skyward and the cloud poofed. They did not fall on the soft cloud and that was the end of it, it required active effort on RD part to maintain the cloud and the instant she stopped it dissipated.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Formis_Fluttergod on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:51 pm

swicked wrote:I wonder, then, why Rainbow Dash didn't just move any cloud into the way. They'd of all supported them.
That's quite simple actually. For Pegasi clouds are like any other tangible surface/material, and as any other surface/material they can be penetrated if enough force/energy is applied. I think that a Pony in free fall could be considered enough to do so. That means that even if Twilight had cast the spell on them they wouldn't have fallen through a regular cloud, they would have broken through a regular cloud.

Here's where Harm's cloud compression really comes into play, because if they were under the spell's influence then making the cloud more substantial would actually have the desired effect. And making the cloud into a giant spring I see more like a bonus pre-caution.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:51 pm

Last wrote:Though on the other hand it's a little fishy that such a thing exists. I mean in "sonic rainboom" when the wonderbolts some of equestria's most talented and experienced fliers attempted to save rarity they flew directly at the flailing pony.

That of course resulted in them all being knocked out. In that situation wouldn't it have been much safer to use Dash's technique?
They were three wonderbolts and she was one unicorn. In this scenario Dash was trying to catch five falling ponies.
It's clearly very difficult to do, too. She had to fly fast enough to get under them by far enough to pull the clouds together and sculpt them into a cushion that could save them.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:02 pm

I meant the wonderbolts should have had some sort of knowledge of a technique like that and they should have deployed it.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by swicked on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:12 pm

Last wrote:I meant the wonderbolts should have had some sort of knowledge of a technique like that and they should have deployed it.
...I know. Read my post again, I was saying why they wouldn't use it in a 3 wonderbolts saving 1 unicorn situation.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Sorry, but I think I'm just not understanding you.

The only reason I see for the wonderbolts is that there were three of them. I just don't get why you'd disregard your safety because you have back up.

The other two reasons seem more specific to Dash the wonderbolts were not as far away as she was.

I think what we saw in this episode proves that it is possible for a pegasus to speed past a falling pony without rainboom assistance.

I could be wrong though. I haven't seen sonic rainboom in a long time.

Maybe the Cloudosseum was closer to the ground.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Cptadder on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:45 pm

Last swicked point was it took RD time to pull of her cloud bending ( Spike ) and it was only because she was trying to catch six and no one. The Wonderbolts had plenty of time to get ahead of Rarity as it was less than eighteen seconds from oh no I'm falling to hoof to the face. After that they were already falling and had more time to fall before RD caught up thus the need of the Sonic rainboom.

Terminal velocity is about 120 MPH(54 meters per second) so lets assume Rarity is falling at that speed. So in the eighteen seconds she had to fall before the TB caught up she had fallen 972 meters. I assume she starts at Terminal velocity only for sake of calculation. After that she's falling and RD is diving except RD starts even higher than Rarity was when she fell. Lets leave that out for simplicity and assume she was at a dead stop and had to catch Rarity before she hit the ground. Remember she's already 972 meters away. It takes her fifteen seconds to catch up from a dead stop and she was accelerating the first seven seconds. Lets assume for napkin level calculations she was doing an terminal velocity plus 10 (130 mph or 58 meters per second) for that time. Okay so she covered 406 meters in the first seven seconds leaving eight seconds and top speed. So before being caught Rarity falls 1782 meters with RD covering 406 meters in seven seconds leaving her to cover 1376 meters in eight seconds or 172 meters per second or 380mph over the sound barrier. The physics of the RD turn have been gone into elsewhere. But it covers here roughly how fast the TB must have been going (At least 200 mph) to catch Rarity at all.


The question is why deploy the springy cloud technique when they could simply just catch her. It's obvious they planned to do just that. Only Rarity failing made an easy save hard.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:51 pm

I think my problem is when I took a swimming class I was taught to never go in after someone who was drowning they could easily drown you in their panic. What I was taught to do was grab something for them to hold onto and reel them in.

I don't know why I'd think the wonderbolts would be taught the same way.

I guess it's just that scene with her knocking them all out sorta reminded me of that type of scenario.

Edit: Also Captain, I wasn't talking about RD pulling it off I was talking about the three other fliers that should have been capable of it.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Cptadder on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Last wrote:

Edit: Also Captain, I wasn't talking about RD pulling it off I was talking about the three other fliers that should have been capable of it.
Simple, they did not react as fast. Oh no Earth ponies falling! Hope someone else takes care of that.
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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:26 pm

But they went after her. Rarity knocked them out.

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Re: S03E07: Wonderbolt Academy

Post by Cptadder on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:25 pm

Last wrote:But they went after her. Rarity knocked them out.
Again why do a cloud thing when catching her would work fine. It was bad luck that resulted in three KO's.
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