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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:46 am

While I'm thinking of this, does anyone think Blackjack will find a way to destroy the Eater of Souls?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:47 am

@Ironmonger: yes, but I am not sure if she will survive the battle herself.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:49 am

Erumpet wrote:@Ironmonger: yes, but I am not sure if she will survive the battle herself.

Valid point, it's one thing to fight overwhelming odds against monsters, it's quite another to fight a supernatural entity. (correct me if I'm missing something)

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Valikdu on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:50 am

Caoimhe wrote:I agree with the Kattsesment of the fandom. There's a lot of stuff I notice that's like "here's my baddass pony with COOL UNIQUE CLOTHES MY OC DO NOT STEAL" and that's the end of it, or two dimensional personalities ie "This one is mean terrible villian and this one is a slut, go hog wild." Yeesh.

...and it's very easy to quickly distinguish this from the stuff you'd like to read and go look for another one. And there's downvoting.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:54 am

@Ironmonger: if she doesn't find a way to at least attempt to defeat the Eater of Souls, then I'm not sure what Somber's end game here really is. I can only think of three other possibilities really.
And then they all ignored the invincible evil monster towering over the hoof? Unlikely.
And then they all gave in to despair because victory was impossible? Possible, but I don't think that fits in with PH's theme of always trying to do better, even if you fail.
And then massive Deus Ex Machina? I certainly hope not.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:57 am

Erumpet wrote:@Ironmonger: if she doesn't find a way to at least attempt to defeat the Eater of Souls, then I'm not sure what Somber's end game here really is. I can only think of three other possibilities really.
And then they all ignored the invincible evil monster towering over the hoof? Unlikely.
And then they all gave in to despair because victory was impossible? Possible, but I don't think that fits in with PH's theme of always trying to do better, even if you fail.
And then massive Deus Ex Machina? I certainly hope not.

The train of thought is mutual apparently.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:58 am

CamoBadger wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:As for the selfishness/envy line of argument, I just don't see it that way. Look, the fact is that in their odd time of techno-magical marvels combined with extreme scarcity, amazing things can happen--once or twice. They can't save everybody, but the owners of the tech certainly have the right to use it to save whom they wish, and the It's a Wonderful Life scenario that played out is a testament not only to the generosity of those who pitched in, but to the selflessness of the mare who gave so much to them first. While certainly her renewal could inspire envy among some in the wasteland, the same could be said of any other good turn of fortune or work of charity.
That is still selfishness, because they could have done this whenever they wanted apparently if all Glory had to do was ask, and they just kept it to themselves without even mentioning it to anyone. True, BJ did help them all somehow, but she was still absolutely miserable in every way leading up to her death. They basically brought her back because she's the 'only hope' for Hoofington, and they didn't consider how BJ would feel for even a second. As I said at the start, she was mentally, physically, psychologically, and morally tormented every second of ever day before she died; if any of her 'benefactors' had been in her hooves I don't think they would be very big on returning to that hell of a life.

Well, I'm not entirely sure I agree here. While many of the augmentations could be done independently, I think it's reasonable that the sand dogs and the Collegiate might not really feel like making that kind of huge contribution to someone with terminal cancer. And by the looks of it, the key limiting factor was the need for synthetic organs, which were obtainable only from Silver Stripe. It seems that she was really on board with donating hers, but that could only be accomplished after Blackjack let Glory help her, and was out of the picture; before that Blackjack would have nixed the idea immediately. Such is sometimes the danger of ceding medical power of attorney to someone who will do anything to keep you alive that you did not expressly forbid.

Now yes, I agree that going against Blackjack's wishes was in that way somewhat selfish of Glory. And she had been in profound misery of all kinds for some days prior to the operation, yes. But I think that everyone believed in her, and that she would be able to recover from the mental and psychological wounds as well as the physical. Frankly, I don't see that large a difference between this and when Watcher prevented her from completing suicide weeks before. The shit had been turned up to eleven this time around, sure, but at a fundamental level each case was about keeping Blackjack's despair from allowing her to die. And to tell the truth, nothing was stopping Blackjack from just killing herself anyway, or asking for euthanasia--except perhaps her love of, and feelings of responsibility to, her friends. So while I can understand that when life is torment one may not wish it to go on, I believe that the proper response*--and the proper choice in this context--is not to simply end the pain, but to help make things better for the person in the situation.

*When helping is possible and has a reasonable chance of success.

Edit:
Erumpet wrote:


But she didn't return to that hell of
a life, she regained her vision and her movement, got relative safety
for a while, got a chance to redeem herself in her own eyes for how she
dealt with Scotch, and got to continue living with the love of her life.
Sure some bad shit happened when she was dying, but when they brought
her back most of that shit was gone.

This. They weren't just bringing her back to her old life, but actively helping to improve from the status quo ante.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:02 am

Icy Shake wrote: So while I can understand that when life is torment one may not wish it to go on, I believe that the proper response*--and the proper choice in this context--is not to simply end the pain, but to help make things better for the person in the situation.

*When helping is possible and has a reasonable chance of success.

I forced myself to have understanding of a similar ideology so I brohoof you.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:09 am

:( Icy Shake going and making all my points for me. Suffice it to say that I agree with him and that he's pretty much touched on everything I wanted to say on this topic already.

@Caoimhe
As someone with some small experience in both the online world and novice-level creative writing courses, I can tell you this much: godawful, unoriginal OCs and piss-poor characterizations are NOT confined to this or any fandom. They aren't even confined to the world of unpublished fiction (Terry Goodkind, I am giving you the stinkeye right now; you too, James Patterson - I'd probably be looking at you as well, Ms. Meyer, but I've never been tricked into reading any of your work). It'd sure be nice if MLPFIM stories never had either, but I'm not holding my breath for it. Novice writers all gotta start somewhere, and most start without an ounce of skill or knowledge. Or proper grammar. Or awareness of theme and the greater literary world that their work exists in and interacts with. Or, well, a lot of things, many of which I'm sure I lack. They'll get better, or they'll stop. (Or they'll get paid millions upon millions of dollars for half-assed, derivative drivel =P)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:24 am

I've been wracking my brain for a way to contribute and I got nothing, nearly everything has been said on the two topics.

I'd like to bring up laser and plasma weaponry. Is there a way to keep from being disintegrated aside from shiny metal, wards and energy shields? One of my OC's is a minotaur behemoth (nod to Fallout 3) and his role is damage tanking, it would really suck if he got glanced by a laser and turned to goo.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by IncoherentOrange on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:28 am

@Bad OCs, etc.

Many a story has characters based upon being cool.

Many a story is bad.

Many a story has these two things in common.

It's easy to write a 'cool' character, (*cough* OC alicorns *cough*) sure, but it goes without saying that cool characters are absolutely not always good characters. FiMFiction is a breeding ground for these types of story and their authors--FiM is a really cool fantasy kitchen sink, with justifications for just about any power an author can give a character. Hell, even super-cool things like teleportation and weather control are canon and not restricted to certain individuals (though teleportation is clearly not something most unicorns know how to do). It, like just about any universe such as this, also invites self-insertion. What if I were there? Which is where I started. (Call me scum, I'll agree with you.) That, combined with a thought process of "If he can do it, I can do it without doing x!" (If you're wondering, the story in question was Hands, and x was romance. I don't like romance, especially rushed HiE romance.)

Multiple mediocre stories later, I now know much more about writing. It takes practice and time, something many authors don't stick around to get, or bother to try to get. Trying is easy. Succeeding, not so much. This has been said before, probably, but that doesn't make it any more true.

So you get novice writers who think cool characters will do their story good. They are, most often, wrong.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:31 am

Ironmonger wrote:I've been wracking my brain for a way to contribute and I got nothing, nearly everything has been said on the two topics.

I'd like to bring up laser and plasma weaponry. Is there a way to keep from being disintegrated aside from shiny metal, wards and energy shields? One of my OC's is a minotaur behemoth (nod to Fallout 3) and his role is damage tanking, it would really suck if he got glanced by a laser and turned to goo.
Yes! Luck. Being lucky helps. Twilight Sparkle Alternatively, there's no reason that some sort of zebra fetish or charm or pony talisman couldn't stop it, or maybe part of minotaur's innate magic is sheer willpower allowing them to affect their physical form, mind over matter in a very brute force sort of way. The latter I just made up, it's not actually canon. But yeah, realistically speaking... plot armor, one way or another. That's how you keep him from getting disintegrated/melted. It exists for a reason.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:35 am

Some people like to abuse plot armor which makes me bellow at the top of my lungs politely declare "Hellfire, damnation and HERESYYYYYYY!!!" Just now I came up for a perk he could use, his armor gains shielding but he has eat a lot to keep it powered.

Epic win moment: A random brony adds me on facebook. I later learn that he just had to add me because of my Iron Warriors emblem. I freaking love meeting new people!

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:13 am

I'm having a major problem and I don't know what to do about it.

Two weeks ago I went on SSRI's for depression. I was feeling way too many triggers and too much on edge. The drugs helped. I didn't feel nearly as anxious as I had before.

I also haven't been able to write either.

Nada. zip. zero. I get to where I left off two weeks ago and just feel this gray blob and it scares me to death. From what I've read, this is typical of antidepressants... and I have no idea what I should do. It seems like life's shaping up to be a choice between making something people love and... nothing. I just don't know what to do any more. There isn't a lower dose of cymbalta I can go on. I'm at 30mg. So... I just don't know.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:26 am

Somber, take a break. Sometimes one runs into a no-win situation and you just gotta accept that. Not easy to accept I know. This next bit is a bit of a personal example: My living room (where my computer is) is so damn noisy all the time that I literally can't keep a train of thought and hear myself think, the end result being I can't write much and usually at all. Can't do anything till the computer gets moved. Similarity being that neither of us can write much if at all and there's the possibility that it's hopeless for now. Might have to wait it out.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:27 am

Err... talk to your doctor? Or is it implied that you have and there are no other options? 'Cause then I'd think you could try and get a second opinion...

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:29 am

Could try talking to multiple doctors. Tad expensive yes but a single mind can't think of everything.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:29 am

This isn't like that. It isn't wait X days and my writing will come back. It's take it for X days and don't be able to write for X days. It's also affecting my teaching... I haven't been able to plan anything creatively. For the last week I've been ripping off another teacher because I have no ideas for my own. It's very worrying. And I did. He was simply of the attitude that this was common and I'd get over it or not.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ametros on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:32 am

Somber wrote:I'm having a major problem and I don't know what to do about it.

Two weeks ago I went on SSRI's for depression. I was feeling way too many triggers and too much on edge. The drugs helped. I didn't feel nearly as anxious as I had before.

I also haven't been able to write either.

Nada. zip. zero. I get to where I left off two weeks ago and just feel this gray blob and it scares me to death. From what I've read, this is typical of antidepressants... and I have no idea what I should do. It seems like life's shaping up to be a choice between making something people love and... nothing. I just don't know what to do any more. There isn't a lower dose of cymbalta I can go on. I'm at 30mg. So... I just don't know.

Is the problem in regards to what's going to happen next, or how you're going to present what happens next? If you haven't tried doing so yet, perhaps talk to some people about where the story is going, and how/why, and get feedback from them to hopefully restart your creative flow? I'm not sure if you already do that or not, but if you're open to trying that, I volunteer some of my time (despite my dislike of spoiler content).

Regardless, I'm not of the mind of accosting you for being unable to finish this story - what joys and wonders (and sorrow) that I've already enjoyed has been freely given by you - by no means would I demand more. Ultimately it should be your own choice whether you want to drop the story or drop the pills, but I at least want to see if there's a way where you won't have to sacrifice one or the other if you'd rather not have to do so.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:32 am

Ironmonger wrote:Could try talking to multiple doctors. Tad expensive yes but a single mind can't think of everything.
Not at RANDOM. His doctor will know who to talk to for a good second opinion. Someone who specializes in something related. His doctor might even call other doctors to try and get a good grasp on who would be best able to help before making a recommendation.

But it's been two weeks since he last wrote... I don't think this problem is going away.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:36 am

swicked wrote:
Not at RANDOM. His doctor will know who to talk to for a good second opinion. Someone who specializes in something related. His doctor might even call other doctors to try and get a good grasp on who would be best able to help before making a recommendation.

But it's been two weeks since he last wrote... I don't think this problem is going away.

Of course not at random, that should go without saying. Admittedly the two weeks thing didn't click in my head. It seems like it won't go away but it could, I'm not sure we could rule out that it would just take a while, but you're right it could be something that isn't on a timer. (if I'm not making sense blame the fact I'm feeling a bit dense today)

I think I'll back out of this one for now, I don't think I can offer anything beyond what I've said.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:50 am

Somber wrote:This isn't like that. It isn't wait X days and my writing will come back. It's take it for X days and don't be able to write for X days. It's also affecting my teaching... I haven't been able to plan anything creatively. For the last week I've been ripping off another teacher because I have no ideas for my own. It's very worrying. And I did. He was simply of the attitude that this was common and I'd get over it or not.

As stated by others, try to talk with your doctor to possibly talk with other doctors. But whatever you do, just put Horizons on the backburner. It could be the pressures of the new job combined with the medication that's blocking your creative juices. Chat with people t'get feedback and see what happens then.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Valikdu on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:58 am

@Somber
Also, remember that all of us love you, look up to you and won't suddenly stop doing that if you take your time.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WovenTales on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:13 am

I don't have any suggestions for regaining any amount of creativity either (and since it is affecting your job, it is definitely a problem), but don't worry about us or the story. You haven't dropped us off in the middle of Hightower or anything; Blackjack is (more or less) resting, the only immediate mysteries are small ones, and there's no reason this can't be a break for us as well.

Unless I've misunderstood the timing, you've been writing this for about a year now. You have put over a million words into one story. You may not want to leave it, but you have certainly earned some time without worrying about it—and since you mentally can't write, you don't even have to feel guilty. Honestly!

So take all the time you need. Find a way to balance mental health and life (including monetary income), and once you're sure that both of those are secure—and only once you're sure—slowly reintroduce creative writing. I wouldn't even return to Project Horizons right away; start with something small, outside of Fo:E, and maybe even completely non-Pony if it helps. We can wait.

Even if this particular thread disintegrates (and if it does, DON'T BLAME YOURSELF! You can't solve this through willpower—or self-deprecation—alone), we'll return from whatever corners of the internet we find ourselves in. Once you do feel like you can start updating this again, we'll come back, as appreciative and as crazy as ever. But until then, you are the highest priority. Don't worry about us or the story. The only thing you're responsible for here is yourself.


Last edited by WovenTales on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:20 am

^What he said. I highly doubt that this thread will disintegrate however, we talk about enough stuff and get interrupted by Crazy Trains enough that we will be around for a loooong time. Rainbow Dash

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:27 am

@Somber: I'm especially sorry to hear that this is harming your work as well; when you had said the choice was between making something people love and nothing, I didn't imagine the divergence was that extreme. Honestly, I don't know what to say; such is the nature of dilemmas. Insofar as information-gathering and seeking alternatives are possible, you may do well to pursue them. Otherwise, remember we're behind you, whatever you decide, and I'm sure that everyone else here is as pleased as I am to hear that your anxiety has improved.

I fear I can't offer anything else--I've never had that sort of reaction--but I want to be sure you know (though I'm sure I'm expressing this poorly) how much I care about you, the person, beyond you, the writer (to whatever extent they are separate, as you make it clear that the troubles of the latter distress the former--and as Woven Tales said better, the affect this has on your job is probably a more pressing concern, as we can wait indefinitely).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:35 am

Guys, he can't even think of anything creative for his teaching job, so unless you are suggesting he just make peace with using others' work from now on (something I think he's implying he isn't that comfortable with, even if the person he's copying from seems to be) I don't see this as all that okay a thing. He can stop PH if he really doesn't feel like writing it anymore (as opposed to feeling incapable of writing it anymore), but the issue seems bigger than that.

Somber, I've had friends who've had similar problems with antidepressant meds. It's pointless to relay the individual instances, though, because they all end in the same way... they changed meds and dosages until they found something that worked. So other than that I can't give any other advice you haven't already heard regarding dealing with having depression... like getting enough sleep and etc., since I imagine teaching must be cutting into that.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WavemasterRyx on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:06 am

Somber wrote:I'm having a major problem and I don't know what to do about it.

Two weeks ago I went on SSRI's for depression. I was feeling way too many triggers and too much on edge. The drugs helped. I didn't feel nearly as anxious as I had before.

I also haven't been able to write either.

Nada. zip. zero. I get to where I left off two weeks ago and just feel this gray blob and it scares me to death. From what I've read, this is typical of antidepressants... and I have no idea what I should do. It seems like life's shaping up to be a choice between making something people love and... nothing. I just don't know what to do any more. There isn't a lower dose of cymbalta I can go on. I'm at 30mg. So... I just don't know.
Somber, foremost, please try not to worry about us. I know that's not easy, but I have to say it anyways...

I really hope that you can find something that can help you. You have all our thoughts and prayers with you, sir.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:43 am

@Somber
:( I'm so sorry to hear that your meds are hitting you like that. It's great that they're cutting down on what they're supposed to, but if they're affecting not just your writing but your job, well, swicked's articulated it better than I could. Good luck, Somber. I hope that this ends up working out for you.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Snipehamster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:44 am

I'm saddened to hear that you're having difficulties, Somber. As others have said, your personal health and real life concerns should always come before Project Horizons. If you need time to get a handle on things, I doubt that anyone here is going to deny you it.

If there's any way we can assist, please say so.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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