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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:31 pm

Mister Frost wrote:Avatar 2: We Nuke It From Orbit

Tag line: It's the only way to be sure
For Cubans, Florida is the only way to be ashore. Spike

Also Hinds it seems like your tunnel idea should work.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:55 pm

Do you think that the power supply system for the tunnel locomotives ought to be overhead wire or third rail? I'm favoring the latter at the moment.

Also, I've not gotten an answer on whether or not the explosive 10mm shells would be sufficient compensation for shell shape designed more for rifles than pistols.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:58 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Do you think that the power supply system for the tunnel locomotives ought to be overhead wire or third rail? I'm favoring the latter at the moment.

Also, I've not gotten an answer on whether or not the explosive 10mm shells would be sufficient compensation for shell shape designed more for rifles than pistols.

...I had a hunch you were lurking around somewhere. :P It might work but getting the complete bullet design to fly properly might be tricky. A small amount of propellant and that large of a bullet sounds a little wonky to me but could work if most of it is hollow save for the tip. On impact the charge could drive in the solid tip like an APE. Should work pretty well.

EDIT: I'm tripping over my thoughts a bit, fixed.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:06 pm

O. Hinds wrote:

Also, I've not gotten an answer on whether or not the explosive 10mm shells would be sufficient compensation for shell shape designed more for rifles than pistols.
I guess so, if you can magic up an explosive strong enough.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:17 pm

Ironmonger wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:Do you think that the power supply system for the tunnel locomotives ought to be overhead wire or third rail? I'm favoring the latter at the moment.

Also, I've not gotten an answer on whether or not the explosive 10mm shells would be sufficient compensation for shell shape designed more for rifles than pistols.

...I had a hunch you were lurking around somewhere. :P It might work but getting the complete bullet design to fly properly might be tricky. A small amount of propellant and that large of a bullet sounds a little wonky to me but could work if most of it is hollow save for the tip. On impact the charge could drive in the solid tip like an APE. Should work pretty well.

EDIT: I'm tripping over my thoughts a bit, fixed.
...Sorry, this might be my lack of familiarity with firearms, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

ketchup504 wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:

Also, I've not gotten an answer on whether or not the explosive 10mm shells would be sufficient compensation for shell shape designed more for rifles than pistols.
I guess so, if you can magic up an explosive strong enough.
Ah, nice!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:22 pm

What I mean is you could hollow out the body of the bullet except for the tip. The empty space could house the charge, and on impact the charge should slam the tip into the target. This would require the bullet be impact-detonated of course. What I meant about it being wonky is that the mass of the bullet with an amount of powder you would use in a pistol cartridge might not get the round up to proper flight speed, causing your range and power to suffer. I'm not sure if I can simplify it any more.

EDIT: Sorry if I'm making this difficult, took me a bit to learn all of this myself and I'm not even an expert.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:36 pm

Ironmonger wrote:What I mean is you could hollow out the body of the bullet except for the tip. The empty space could house the charge, and on impact the charge should slam the tip into the target. This would require the bullet be impact-detonated of course. What I meant about it being wonky is that the mass of the bullet with an amount of powder you would use in a pistol cartridge might not get the round up to proper flight speed, causing your range and power to suffer. I'm not sure if I can simplify it any more.

EDIT: Sorry if I'm making this difficult, took me a bit to learn all of this myself and I'm not even an expert.
Ah, I see... I think. Yes, I was planning on using impact fuses. You don't think that my idea of letting the shell dig into/through the armor and then detonating would work, though? Or did you not see that amidst everything else going on?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:40 pm

I probably didn't see it, that would work better. Bolter rounds in Warhammer work similarly and it has absolutely devastating effects. Being shot by a 10mm round in that format could be akin to taking a 45-70 at point blank range. Look up a picture of a 45-70 wound and you will see what I mean.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:50 pm

Problem being that a time-delayed fuse would be prone to breaking or failing as compared to an impact-detonated one
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Frost is right, you could end up with dud rounds. I didn't think of that.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:00 pm


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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Mister Frost wrote:Problem being that a time-delayed fuse would be prone to breaking or failing as compared to an impact-detonated one

Ironmonger wrote:Frost is right, you could end up with dud rounds. I didn't think of that.
Hm, yes... perhaps using a fuse based on a chemical or alchemical reaction of known duration would be help with that?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:08 pm

@Kim
Princess Molestia? Lemme go check it. Wait. Molest... O.o
Why Kim? WAIII?!
Well at least Joseco makes the art so it ain't bad, and there's always Gamerluna in there as well. Molestia kinda seems a bit flat as a character, though there are hints for development, esp. with Fausticorn. And then there's Derpy. That Gangnam Style comic. XD
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:15 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Hm, yes... perhaps using a fuse based on a chemical or alchemical reaction of known duration would be help with that?
If you can make sure that the fuse will go off at least 90% of the time then you're doing it right.

Frost and I working on these kind of things together is better than us working apart. Frost can cover the general bases pretty well but sometimes doesn't think out of the box. I usually think out of the box but I can get so single-minded I start ignoring even basic factors. Point being you'll get better results if you get an answer from both of us rather than one of us.


Last edited by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:16 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:Problem being that a time-delayed fuse would be prone to breaking or failing as compared to an impact-detonated one

Ironmonger wrote:Frost is right, you could end up with dud rounds. I didn't think of that.
Hm, yes... perhaps using a fuse based on a chemical or alchemical reaction of known duration would be help with that?

Problem with the chemical side of things being that the speed of the reaction would change due to temperature other environmental factors
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:25 pm

@Explodin' boolets
Sadly, I don't think you can get away with just saying "MAGIC!!11!!" in this case, 'cos talismanning-up each bullet would be prohibitively expensive even for ponies, and also probably wouldn't fit in a 10mm... BUT! Oh-ho, what if the gun itself had a talisman to make the bullets go boom? Like the zebra rifle Littlepip wielded. I've got no benchmark for what the time and cost of manufacturing would be, but it's at least better than magicking the bullets and 100% reliable (from what we've seen) barring damage.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:27 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@Explodin' boolets
Sadly, I don't think you can get away with just saying "MAGIC!!11!!" in this case, 'cos talismanning-up each bullet would be prohibitively expensive even for ponies, and also probably wouldn't fit in a 10mm... BUT! Oh-ho, what if the gun itself had a talisman to make the bullets go boom? Like the zebra rifle Littlepip wielded. I've got no benchmark for what the time and cost of manufacturing would be, but it's at least better than magicking the bullets and 100% reliable (from what we've seen) barring damage.

Sounds a lot like my original idea for Iron Fury's marksman rifle 'Sins of My Fathers'

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:40 pm

If we add in magical effects to guns, you can get really creative. Sniper rifles that track the target, shotguns that don't spread past a certain distance, recoilless rapid-fire high-power rifles, ect ect ect
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:43 pm

Spitfire's Thunder is a case of the very latter. The recoiless enchantment would be a boon for shotguns.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:48 pm

The easiest way to do anything in a magical setting is to make something magic to do what you want. My +6 sword of death also summons rainstorms and can make food.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:50 pm

ketchup504 wrote:The easiest way to do anything in a magical setting is to make something magic to do what you want. My +6 sword of death also summons rainstorms and can make food.
Soggy bread. Derpy Hooves
"Hate to RAIN on your parade!"

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:00 pm

Mister Frost wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:Problem being that a time-delayed fuse would be prone to breaking or failing as compared to an impact-detonated one

Ironmonger wrote:Frost is right, you could end up with dud rounds. I didn't think of that.
Hm, yes... perhaps using a fuse based on a chemical or alchemical reaction of known duration would be help with that?

Problem with the chemical side of things being that the speed of the reaction would change due to temperature other environmental factors
I'm not sure about other environmental factors, given that the shells are sealed, but you make a good point about temperature. Hm... Any idea for how to make the fusing work?

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@Explodin' boolets
Sadly, I don't think you can get away with just saying "MAGIC!!11!!" in this case, 'cos talismanning-up each bullet would be prohibitively expensive even for ponies, and also probably wouldn't fit in a 10mm... BUT! Oh-ho, what if the gun itself had a talisman to make the bullets go boom? Like the zebra rifle Littlepip wielded. I've got no benchmark for what the time and cost of manufacturing would be, but it's at least better than magicking the bullets and 100% reliable (from what we've seen) barring damage.
...Eh? I think that perhaps you have not been closely following this development of this weapons system. The shells were designed and built by zebras under circumstances that caused them to try and conserve metal, much less gems (and I doubt that they could have manufactured such talismans anyway). The boom comes from good old-fashioned alchemical explosives.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:04 pm

A deflegrating secondary charge activated at the same time as the round itself would do it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:05 pm

To me that raises the question how the Zebras mass-produced an assault rifle that turns it's ammo into roman candles of death...unless it was a limited-production weapon and/or used alchemy instead of traditional talismans.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:10 pm

Mister Frost wrote:A deflegrating secondary charge activated at the same time as the round itself would do it.
...Sorry, but what does that mean?

Ironmonger wrote:To me that raises the question how the Zebras mass-produced an assault rifle that turns it's ammo into roman candles of death...unless it was a limited-production weapon and/or used alchemy instead of traditional talismans.
Well, that was a wartime model, and possibly a high-end one designed for, among other things, use in Equestria. For that they may have used a talisman.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:13 pm

I think he means a secondary charge activated by the primer/propellant (whichever one the hammer strikes) which in turn sets off the fuse.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:20 pm

A slow-burning charge inside the bullet activated by the round going off, which in turn sets off the explosive charge when it burns down
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:30 pm

The biggest problem I see with your explosive 10mm bullets are the cost.
Making solid projectiles is easier since you just need to fill a mold. Making hollow shells requires more steps if you want to fill it with something. The filling would require another assembly/mixing process as well. The cost just might not be worth it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:45 pm

Mister Frost wrote:A slow-burning charge inside the bullet activated by the round going off, which in turn sets off the explosive charge when it burns down
Wouldn't that be more vulnerable to external conditions, though, not less?

Ketchup wrote:The biggest problem I see with your explosive 10mm bullets are the cost.
Making solid projectiles is easier since you just need to fill a mold. Making hollow shells requires more steps if you want to fill it with something. The filling would require another assembly/mixing process as well. The cost just might not be worth it.
Hm... It seems to me that it's a balance between the cost of the extra metal that bullets would require minus the cost of the explosives and the cost of running the extra processing. Actually, though, the extra processing could be done manually, in a pinch, or with machines run by zebrapower, so I think that the 10mm shells might indeed be more cost-effective during the initial runs. Things might change once trade opens up and brings in more metal and energy, though.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:50 pm

The deflegration fuse idea would be gunpowder (which burns slower than the smokeless that's used in modern rounds) which is extremely stable.

Obviously, the rounds would be limited to special purpose, anti-armor purposes and would not replace conventional rounds
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