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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:32 pm

I hope there is some good cloning technology floating around, it would make things interesting. Could take some unicorn genes and make psi-clones.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:34 pm

...That's not a cyclone, that's a typhoon. Spike

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jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:34 pm

RoboRed wrote:...That's not a cyclone, that's a typhoon. Spike

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ketchup on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:35 pm

Firstly, this picture:

Mister Frost wrote:Did ponies ever perfect cloning technology? Seems like you could really compensate for the low population that way. Get a shitload of disposable soldiers. No, it's not ethical, but by the time the end of the war rolled around, most Ministry higher-ups seemed to think "ethics" were the pustules that formed when someone brandished a holy symbol at them.
Oh, they could clone ponies just fine, but they'd have no soul. Boo, for example, has no soul aside from the one we give her. They couldn't be soldiers because they act more or less like animals.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:36 pm

ketchup504 wrote:Firstly, this picture:

Yeah...*sigh*...that didn't take long...

------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:36 pm

Perhaps their brain chemistry or something could be altered so they obey orders and have knowledge of how to use weapons. It could be a part of their instincts but they would still be as stupid as Congress with an open bar, but at that point you could equip them with cheap weapons and armor then send them in waves at whoever spiked your blood pressure.

EDIT: Ponies aint making it easy for me to stay off the derail bandwagon. Rage

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:49 pm

Apologies er'rypony. That one was my bad.

I think it's wierd that soulless=mindless. Most fiction portrays clones as a situation of soulless=heartless. No emotions, no regret, no fear, no conscience, no self-preservation. Terrible for peacekeeping and "good guys", but as was mentioned, one could hardly call Equestria "good guys" at the end.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:55 pm

Give them all AN-94's or AK-74s, some cheap armor, a gas mask, and a brain chip to control them and let them loose.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Cptadder on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:57 pm

Ironmonger wrote:I'm following this topic closely so I won't derail it
Applejack


Ironmonger wrote:but I had another idea some of you can mull over. A rifle that fires an iron or steel spike via a magnetic generator or possibly gauss coils. Inside the gun is a device that irradiates the projectile with a relatively high dose of magical radiation. I'm thinking it would fire in two-shot bursts (I have a worry that a third shot would be pushing it or would go wild in most situations. It also has a built-in medium-power scope for silently murdering people politely saying hello and inviting them to tea at long range.
What would this weapon offer over a conventional railgun? Fire radioactive things is generally the opposite of what you want to do in warfare. And when you are using radioactive things it's because you have no other choice (Depleted Uranium tipped shells) or it's an unavoidable side effect (WMDs). You generally speaking want what the other side has and radioactivity except in super high doses is a slow killer. It's such a slow killer that it really does not matter in even a twenty year war and most radioactivity is a 10-30 year killer. Radioactivity sufficient to kill in a few weeks still leaves you alive and healthy for hours after the dosage before symptoms appear.

And if the dosage IS high enough to kill in a few weeks... what exactly is shielding the user of the gun from the same fate?


Ironmonger wrote:At the risk of taking this forum in the wrong direction
How


Ironmonger wrote:Perhaps their brain chemistry or something could be altered so they obey orders and have knowledge of how to use weapons. It could be a part of their instincts but they would still be as stupid as Congress with an open bar, but at that point you could equip them with cheap weapons and armor then send them in waves at whoever spiked your blood pressure.
Disposable mindless soldiers are a hindrance to any modern military force with machine guns and good defenses. If you have Boer War or better armaments (And ponies have between WWI to future weaponry) all that meat is just a slight distraction. You can't even get attrition in since they Zebras can just construct machine gun robots and have the Zebra's carrying it more ammunition.


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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:59 pm

Wouldn't robots be more practical? A living soldier loses all the advantages of being a living soldier if you take away creativity, survival instinct, etc.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:02 pm

At least I was considerate this time.

Anywho that made me feel stupid except:

1:I'm just now getting woke up and having my coffee
2:I asked/pitched before I implemented so I avoided true idiocy.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:07 pm

Ironmonger wrote:At least I was considerate this time.

Anywho that made me feel stupid except:

1:I'm just now getting woke up and having my coffee
2:I asked/pitched before I implemented so I avoided true idiocy.
Well, if there were a specific need for hordes of mindless bodies, or they had access to an armory and a cloning tree but no robotics or construction equipment for some reason, I suppose it could work. It just seems much less practical than all the other options for most warfare.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:09 pm

They wouldn't lack creativity or tactics, they just wouldn't particularly rule out tactics and plans that involved them all dying so long as the objective would be served by doing so.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:11 pm

Sindri wrote:
Well, if there were a specific need for hordes of mindless bodies, or they had access to an armory and a cloning tree but no robotics or construction equipment for some reason

You mean like no vehicles or robots, just infantry?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:31 pm

I leave to go prepare for my eminent death by hurricane tomorrow and you guys go balls out crazy. Can't leave you alone for a minute.

Anyway that pic on the last page is cute but Scotch got blue eyes. AGH it's always one little thing... :(
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:33 pm

Ironmonger wrote:
Sindri wrote:
Well, if there were a specific need for hordes of mindless bodies, or they had access to an armory and a cloning tree but no robotics or construction equipment for some reason

You mean like no vehicles or robots, just infantry?
Well, a clone army takes all the disadvantages of robotic units (lack of creativity or survival instinct, cannot do anything they aren't specifically programmed for) and all the disadvantages of low-level live infantry (soft and squishy, require sustenance and equipment, very limited individual combat capability, require extensive training and conditioning before combat-ready) and combines them into one package. A package which requires a highly specialized and secret facility to produce. So the only time I can think of the clone army being a valid option is if you have a cloning tree, and enough gear and time to train and equip real soldiers, but you have neither the population for live troops nor the equipment to produce mechanical ones. Clones are still troops, just not as good as either other option and thus only an advantage if you can't get either other option.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:38 pm

Essentially an emergency option. Perhaps really cheap and simple robots instead? I could see something like Aerostats from the Terminator series coming in handy as harassment and T-600's being used for breaching a well-defended area when you can't risk live troops. I'm just throwing stuff out here at this point, Frost and I are in the process of writing and I don't have a whole lot of time to put great effort into an idea. Also sorry for my derailings, I'm trying to do better.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:44 pm

@Cao
Good luck with the hurricane, my family's in the same general area so I'm hoping for the best.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:48 pm

I'm wondering if those winds are going to come my way. Ohio gets the ass end of EVERYTHIIIIIIIING! Rage

*static* WE INTERRUPT THIS RAGE TO BRING YOU SOME DAAAW!
Spoiler:

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:55 pm

If anything, clones would have more creativity and independent thinking (as far as achieving objectives goes) than normal troops due to their whole education and training being devoted to warfare. They could battle through horrific injuries and keep going with no regard for morale, no fear, and no desertion or worries about psychological trauma. If the objective being completed would be worth more than their own lives, they'd go for it in a heartbeat. Not to mention the crippling psychological effect it would have on an enemy to see hundreds of identical soldiers coming at them with blank, empty eyes and no regard for their own safety.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:58 pm

Ironmonger wrote:
*static* WE INTERRUPT THIS RAGE TO BRING YOU SOME DAAAW!
Spoiler:
MY HEART. *hurk*

------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Stringtheory on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:02 pm

Caoimhe wrote:I leave to go prepare for my eminent death by hurricane tomorrow and you guys go balls out crazy. Can't leave you alone for a minute.
I'm down in Providence so we'll probably get fucked more then you
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:07 pm

Everypony is getting fucked. It's a weather orgy.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:16 pm

Mister Frost wrote:If anything, clones would have more creativity and independent thinking (as far as achieving objectives goes) than normal troops due to their whole education and training being devoted to warfare. They could battle through horrific injuries and keep going with no regard for morale, no fear, and no desertion or worries about psychological trauma. If the objective being completed would be worth more than their own lives, they'd go for it in a heartbeat. Not to mention the crippling psychological effect it would have on an enemy to see hundreds of identical soldiers coming at them with blank, empty eyes and no regard for their own safety.
None of that leads to creativity or independence. And a lack of a survival instinct doesn't mean you keep achieving objectives instead of running away, it means you get yourself killed pointlessly before you can accomplish anything. Immunity to fear, bad morale, and pain are advantages, but ones that robotic troops already have and organic ones can gain with combat drugs without losing much. And I think that the psychological effects of mowing down lines of stupid meat-puppets wouldn't be quite as devastating as you're hoping, and certainly not as potent as a single decent artilleryman or a few sturdy robots tearing your comrades up.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:31 pm

I did have this one, really experimental, idea of a reprogrammed and reconfigured robot designed to carry a small infantry cannon.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:33 pm

Infact, wouldn't slaughtering hundreds of mindless clones give the enemy more moral in knowing:

1. the enemy is so weak
2. you've already killed xyz amount of soldiers so easily, what's another lot?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Frost on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:34 pm

Sindri wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:If anything, clones would have more creativity and independent thinking (as far as achieving objectives goes) than normal troops due to their whole education and training being devoted to warfare. They could battle through horrific injuries and keep going with no regard for morale, no fear, and no desertion or worries about psychological trauma. If the objective being completed would be worth more than their own lives, they'd go for it in a heartbeat. Not to mention the crippling psychological effect it would have on an enemy to see hundreds of identical soldiers coming at them with blank, empty eyes and no regard for their own safety.
None of that leads to creativity or independence. And a lack of a survival instinct doesn't mean you keep achieving objectives instead of running away, it means you get yourself killed pointlessly before you can accomplish anything. Immunity to fear, bad morale, and pain are advantages, but ones that robotic troops already have and organic ones can gain with combat drugs without losing much. And I think that the psychological effects of mowing down lines of stupid meat-puppets wouldn't be quite as devastating as you're hoping, and certainly not as potent as a single decent artilleryman or a few sturdy robots tearing your comrades up.

I'm saying that getting killed pointlessly is the exact opposite of what would happen. They would employ tactics as well as you'd expect from guys who'd been doing it since childhood. They wouldn't need to by micromanaged, seeing as they'd all be educated in strategy and tactics such that you could simply give them an objective, they form their own plan and requisition their own materials. If they can calculate that they could wipe out a 200-man enemy group by throwing 35 suicide troops at it, they'd do so without hesitation. "Disposable" doesn't mean "walk at you like a fucking idiot, not even shooting back." It means "I don't care if they die so long as you do."
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:36 pm

Thanks to Katarn:

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Stringtheory on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:41 pm

anyone going trick-or-treating? because if so watch this video:


personally I'm not because I'm a party pooper
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:43 pm

Mister Frost wrote:I'm saying that getting killed pointlessly is the exact opposite of what would happen. They would employ tactics as well as you'd expect from guys who'd been doing it since childhood. They wouldn't need to by micromanaged, seeing as they'd all be educated in strategy and tactics such that you could simply give them an objective, they form their own plan and requisition their own materials. If they can calculate that they could wipe out a 200-man enemy group by throwing 35 suicide troops at it, they'd do so without hesitation. "Disposable" doesn't mean "walk at you like a fucking idiot, not even shooting back." It means "I don't care if they die so long as you do."
You're thinking of the clones as brainwashed people, completely loyal, willing to die, and knowing nothing but war. That's not what you'd get from what I've seen.

The blanks weren't willing to be sacrificed, they just had no concept of death or danger and thus would continue standing there while being eaten. You can program the clone troops to shoot back, but you can't instill in them the instinct for self-preservation that every real animal has. They could take cover and move carefully if ordered to, or under the specific circumstances they were programmed to do so, but they would still drop like flies on the battlefield, whether they've accomplished anything in doing so or not, because they have no will to live.
They would have the entire textbook of strategy and tactics instilled in them, yes. And thus under any textbook situation they would act in the way calculated to be optimal by the armchair generals back home. Now, find anyone who's been in combat and ask them how far that will get you. Ever hear the phrase "no plan survives contact with the enemy?" Because it's true, and the blanks would never properly adapt because they have all the perfect optimal training, but no creativity or flexibility.

They would be as bad or worse, tactically speaking, than autonomous robots. But without the advantages in armor, firepower, etc. that those robots would have, and without the option for someone intelligent to teleop them.
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