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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by OneMoreDaySK on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:10 pm

On the topic of genetics, how were males bred in 99? And what happens when a mare has a colt or twins? Infanticide?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:15 pm

If a mare had a colt, the colt was put into a sort of 24/7 daycare watch program until they turned 15, and then they were put into the breeding pool and one was taken out. I'm not sure about twins. Somber?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:20 pm

Apologies if this was covered somewhere (in story or elsewhere) but I have just finished every episode of the show and was curious what the the timeline from presumably the time after FiM to the events leading up to the end of days was. Seeming on the way to the beginning of the war with zebras, before the foundation of the ministries and most of the orb recordings, there was a period of technological (or magical) progress and also general events of realworld-like violence.

Did KKat and others assume that the events of the FiM show were mostly 'white washed' and behind it there was much depression, pain, violence, etc. and what fans view is a watered down view of pony life or was there a series of specific events that sort of destroyed the whole idea of Equestria being a utopia turning it into a more or less benevolent dictatorship?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Rafafidi on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:58 pm

I agree that as a "pilot", a brain in a robot would be faster than a full person, but you would have to spend years training someone that could not only move in his new body, but also program and himself.
Why he would be smarter? Sure, he will make calculations faster, but that don't mean it will do the correct calculation. He will have acess to the same data he would if he still had a body. If the person didn't know about some thing, and there is no relevant data in the computer, how would he search about it? Internet? Would YOU trust YOUR BRAIN to the internet? You cath a virus and you die?
And some years later, when his body becomes obsolete, he'll have to spend months adapting to a new body, with completly different hardware and software?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:16 pm

Caoimhe wrote:Did KKat and others assume that the events of the FiM show were mostly 'white washed' and behind it there was much depression, pain, violence, etc. and what fans view is a watered down view of pony life or was there a series of specific events that sort of destroyed the whole idea of Equestria being a utopia turning it into a more or less benevolent dictatorship?

I was just thinking about this randomly myself, and from what I gathered from speaking to her / the story - it was a purely coincidental thing. The ends to justify the means, the motion was put into play by the consequences of the actions of others.

In other words - their hooves were pushed into the dirty business of war in which they would have never taken part of otherwise.
Ponies have known small scale violence, of course. They have a policing force (Royal Guard) and potentially a true police outfit in the cities.
(Ponyville is a friendly village where everypony knows one another. Anything that happens would immediately be undone by the angry crowd. No need for police.)


I truly believe that it IS a utopia, but the events of the pirates pushed them into devastation in a series of unfortunate happenings.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:11 pm

Somber wrote:If the passage were that hazardous, I would build a rest stop, fortify and supplied, spaced out as far as the train could travel from dawn to dusk, minus an hour travelling time. The train would only travel at day light. At night and while the train is travelling, I'd have teams of four to six travelling in steam cars, scouting out problems and warning the train of potential ambushes. That's just me tho. I still don't see integrated weapon systems ever being a practical solution. For one thing, if I know "Missiles are X" all I have to do it hit that spot and hope for secondary explosions to cripple the engine.
Steam car outriders... so very Mad Max! :D

Rafafidi wrote:My random question of the day: how an human/pony brain in a computer could be better than an AI normal computer and a programmer/technician?
My headcanon is that brainbots and the like use a brain as their CPU, but it's not the same as a human piloting the bot. The brain acts as a sensory processor but isn't conscious, and has protections against "waking up" since that would obviously be a tremendously traumatic experience that would make the robot ineffective at its job.

Caoimhe wrote:Did KKat and others assume that the events of the FiM show were mostly 'white washed' and behind it there was much depression, pain, violence, etc. and what fans view is a watered down view of pony life or was there a series of specific events that sort of destroyed the whole idea of Equestria being a utopia turning it into a more or less benevolent dictatorship?
Not at all. We don't really get much insight into what happened in the decade-plus between FiM and the beginning of the war, but what we do see shows Celestia to be exactly what she appears to be. The events that made Equestria into the dystopia of the war's end are a bit complex, but I'll post about them later.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:19 pm

Kippershy wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:Did KKat and others assume that the events of the FiM show were mostly 'white washed' and behind it there was much depression, pain, violence, etc. and what fans view is a watered down view of pony life or was there a series of specific events that sort of destroyed the whole idea of Equestria being a utopia turning it into a more or less benevolent dictatorship?

I was just thinking about this randomly myself, and from what I gathered from speaking to her / the story - it was a purely coincidental thing. The ends to justify the means, the motion was put into play by the consequences of the actions of others.

In other words - their hooves were pushed into the dirty business of war in which they would have never taken part of otherwise.
Ponies have known small scale violence, of course. They have a policing force (Royal Guard) and potentially a true police outfit in the cities.
(Ponyville is a friendly village where everypony knows one another. Anything that happens would immediately be undone by the angry crowd. No need for police.)


I truly believe that it IS a utopia, but the events of the pirates pushed them into devastation in a series of unfortunate happenings.
Well, what are the causes of war in our world? Politics, religion, and resource limits. In Equestria during and for centuries before the show, politics and religion were both unified by an immortal and benevolent goddess Princess, and there was more than enough food for everybody because of a combination of earth pony magic, pegasus-controlled weather, and regulated daylight.

Then industry happens, and suddenly they need coal. Resources are no longer things they can provide for themselves without limits, and another nation and religion who had previously avoided them is forced into contact. From there the exact trigger doesn't matter much, because conflict was going to happen.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:28 pm

Sindri wrote:
Kippershy wrote:
Caoimhe wrote:Did KKat and others assume that the events of the FiM show were mostly 'white washed' and behind it there was much depression, pain, violence, etc. and what fans view is a watered down view of pony life or was there a series of specific events that sort of destroyed the whole idea of Equestria being a utopia turning it into a more or less benevolent dictatorship?

I was just thinking about this randomly myself, and from what I gathered from speaking to her / the story - it was a purely coincidental thing. The ends to justify the means, the motion was put into play by the consequences of the actions of others.

In other words - their hooves were pushed into the dirty business of war in which they would have never taken part of otherwise.
Ponies have known small scale violence, of course. They have a policing force (Royal Guard) and potentially a true police outfit in the cities.
(Ponyville is a friendly village where everypony knows one another. Anything that happens would immediately be undone by the angry crowd. No need for police.)


I truly believe that it IS a utopia, but the events of the pirates pushed them into devastation in a series of unfortunate happenings.
Well, what are the causes of war in our world? Politics, religion, and resource limits. In Equestria during and for centuries before the show, politics and religion were both unified by an immortal and benevolent goddess Princess, and there was more than enough food for everybody because of a combination of earth pony magic, pegasus-controlled weather, and regulated daylight.

Then industry happens, and suddenly they need coal. Resources are no longer things they can provide for themselves without limits, and another nation and religion who had previously avoided them is forced into contact. From there the exact trigger doesn't matter much, because conflict was going to happen.

Well, and all that too. I was just being lazy.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:21 pm

Caoimhe wrote:Did KKat and others assume that the events of the FiM show were mostly 'white washed' and behind it there was much depression, pain, violence, etc. and what fans view is a watered down view of pony life or was there a series of specific events that sort of destroyed the whole idea of Equestria being a utopia turning it into a more or less benevolent dictatorship?
Okay, so. It all started with geology.
Equestria was blessed with magical gems. So many gems that they could dig them up by hand to use as decorations in dresses. On the other hoof, Zebrica, or whatever you want to call the Zebra homeland, had very few gems suitable for magic, but great reserves of fossil fuels which Equestria lacked. So, naturally, the two started a trade. Having combined magical components with energy supplies, both nations embarked on an industrial revolution. Everything was fine, for a while, but now each nation's economy relied on trade with the other.

The trouble began when some zebra pirates used modern ships and weaponry to take prisoner a number of ponies for ransom. Over the Caesar's objections, Celestia deployed the Wonderbolts to resolve the situation. They suffered some casualties, but all the hostages were freed and Celestia made the appropriate public apologies, and everything seemed fine. But it wasn't.

FOE merely describes tensions rising until a resource war broke out. PH adds some detail to that; the Wonderbolt raid made the Caesar look weak in the eyes of his political rivals. It seemed like the Caesar couldn't resolve the pirate situation, but Equestria could do it after crossing the sea to boot. Ponies weren't skilled in politics, having had the same leadership for over a millennium, so they didn't see the repercussions of this act. The Caesar needed to do something to strengthen his position, so next time a trade dispute came up, he embargoed Equestria while suing for better terms. With Equestrian coal supplies dwindling, the aristocracy leaned on Celestia to let them take the coal by force. She eventually complied against her better judgement, and the coal was seized. The zebras obviously couldn't take that insult sitting down, and the war was on.

Even so, the first decade of fighting was relatively polite. Both sides avoided civilian targets and offered aid to the wounded, no matter their species. POWs were traded and everything remained as civil as war can be. Then Littlehorn happened. A zebra refugee convoy was destroyed by the automated defenses of the Littlehorn school, and the grief-stricken father of one of the dead families set off a Pink Cloud bomb inside the school's shield. Hundreds of children perished, Celestia resigned, and Luna created the Ministries to help her rule. That was the turning point, when Equestria came to view zebras as monsters and zebras believed Luna had reverted to Nightmare Moon. Neither side was accustomed to war or hate, and this didn't give them any time to learn how to channel it safely. Two nations' worth of outrage turned the war into a jihad on both sides, and the assassination attempt that killed Macintosh destroyed any hope for the dialogue that could have resolved the misunderstandings.

After that, it was all over except the shouting.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:27 pm

Sindri wrote:s the opposite of what I described at great length earlier. Both the unicorn gene and the pegasus gene are recessive. You're a pegasus if you have a pp regardless of whether it's alongside UU, Uu, or uu, but PP or Pp means 'not a pegasus.'
Ah, okay, I did misunderstand your original theory then.

But my point still stands. In the unicorn population, you have only Ppuu and PPuu, which means one in eight births to unicorn parents would be a pegasus (assuming equal distribution of the two genotypes, which is likely unless the p gene has some negative survival trait associated). That's more common than having twins.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:13 am

FeatherDust wrote:
Sindri wrote:s the opposite of what I described at great length earlier. Both the unicorn gene and the pegasus gene are recessive. You're a pegasus if you have a pp regardless of whether it's alongside UU, Uu, or uu, but PP or Pp means 'not a pegasus.'
Ah, okay, I did misunderstand your original theory then.

But my point still stands. In the unicorn population, you have only Ppuu and PPuu, which means one in eight births to unicorn parents would be a pegasus (assuming equal distribution of the two genotypes, which is likely unless the p gene has some negative survival trait associated). That's more common than having twins.
True.

I actually got bored and worked out the allele distribution (or whatever the technical term for this is)...:
I started by assuming an even distribution of pony types with each being a third of the population (reasonable based on what we've seen), that equestrian society was cosmopolitan and allowed for free and random breeding between types (not entirely probable, but not very far from the truth and without this the math gets messy), and that things have stabilized rather than being in the process of some dramatic shift in proportions.
It works out that on the P/p side, any random allele selected from throughout the population has a 57.735% (square root of 1/3) chance of being p and 42.465% of being P. On the U/u side, there's a 70.711% (square root of 1/2) chance of u and 29.289% chance of U. This means that the total proportions of genotypes across the full population are roughly:
PPUU - 1.53% total, 4.60% of earth ponies
PPUu - 7.40% total, 22.2% of earth ponies
PpUU - 4.19% total, 12.6% of earth ponies
PpUu - 20.2% total, 60.6% of earth ponies
PPuu - 8.93% total, 26.8% of unicorns
Ppuu - 24.4% total, 73.2% of unicorns
ppUU - 2.86% total, 8.58% of pegasi
ppUu - 13.8% total, 41.4% of pegasi
ppuu - 16.7% total, 50.0% of pegasi

Which means that random pair of unicorns has a 53.59% chance of both being Ppuu, and a 25% if they are of having a pegasus child, which works out to a 13.40% chance overall of a random foal from a random pair of pegasi being a unicorn, which is 1 in 7.46!
...Which is close enough to make me wonder if you've already done all this math and I've wasted my time, or if you're just really really good at estimating probabilities.
So that thing you said is totally true and I've forgotten the point you were making with it in the first place.
Derpy Hooves
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Custardman on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:22 am

Hello, I'm actually looking to create a cityscape piece of Hoofington, does any body know where in the story i could look to get the best details of the city? Or maybe explain how the city roughly looks like? It's been a while since I've actually read the descriptions and I have it in my head as a foreboding wall of crumbling monolithic buildings behind a high concrete wall. I'd like to know if my mind is generating the correct picture or if I am off on some details.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:40 am

Hrm. I may have found a minor problem with my theories.:
The Hearths Warming pageant seemed to indicate that at some point in the distant history, the pony types were completely segregated. If we assume this to meaning that (aside from statistically insignificant 'romeo and juliet' style scenarios) each of the types only bred among themselves and only produced foals of their own type, the only existent genotypes at the type would be PPUU (the only earth pony type that never produces a non earth pony), PPuu (the only unicorn type that never produces a pegasus), and ppXX (with X being either U or u, because it doesn't matter anymore with a pp).

If the total proportions of alleles hold steady over time, that means 57.735% of the total population must have been pegasi at the time. The exact breakdowns of earth pony and unicorn populations could be anywhere from 13% unicorn and 29% earth pony to 42% unicorn and virtually no earth ponies (we don't know what the distribution was like on the U/u side of the pegasi because it would never display anyway), but nowhere along that scale seems very likely. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

So, possibilities I have come up with, in increasing order of probability:
-A very small number of earth ponies actually were supporting a massive population of pegasi, despite the latter's refusal to produce any of their own food; ancient ponies lived in constant fear of the massive pegasus enclave's military.
-I'm wrong. Please propose alternate theories.
-The Hearth's Warming story is a fabrication for propaganda purposes, intended to keep ponies working together smoothly rather than developing new prejudices. Supported by various minor issues with the story.
-Everypony loves that toned flyer flank; the p allele has increased dramatically in frequency as pegasi had greater success at reproduction during the integration of pony types after the Fire of Friendship.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:50 am

Erumpet wrote:
OneMoreDaySK wrote:On the topic of genetics, how were males bred in 99? And what happens when a mare has a colt or twins? Infanticide?
If a mare had a colt, the colt was put into a sort of 24/7 daycare watch program until they turned 15, and then they were put into the breeding pool and one was taken out. I'm not sure about twins. Somber?
Unfortunately unlikely, E.

Over the course of producing 20 offspring, a male needs to produce 19 fillies and one colt. He can't have more than one son, his own replacement, while the other 19 are fillies. Each pregnancy has a 50/50 chance of being male. To have 95% of his offspring be fillies, something has to happen to the other ~18 colts.

I doubt it's anything as gruesome as infanticide; probably they identify and abort most colts early on.




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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:53 am

Why do they have to produce twenty offspring Featherdust?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:55 am

FeatherDust wrote:
Erumpet wrote:
OneMoreDaySK wrote:On the topic of genetics, how were males bred in 99? And what happens when a mare has a colt or twins? Infanticide?
If a mare had a colt, the colt was put into a sort of 24/7 daycare watch program until they turned 15, and then they were put into the breeding pool and one was taken out. I'm not sure about twins. Somber?
Unfortunately unlikely, E.

Over the course of producing 20 offspring, a male needs to produce 19 fillies and one colt. He can't have more than one son, his own replacement, while the other 19 are fillies. Each pregnancy has a 50/50 chance of being male. To have 95% of his offspring be fillies, something has to happen to the other ~18 colts.

I doubt it's anything as gruesome as infanticide; probably they identify and abort most colts early on.
The gender ratio we've seen so far in the show is somewhere around 6 female : 1 male. 99 has 500 mares and ~50 bucks at a time (20 each of unicorns and earth ponies in service and ~10 underage), so that goes up to about 10:1 but we know already that males have shorter lifespans (being retired early instead of continuing until death by accident or nature), so it pretty much works out.

Each buck would produce an average of six fillies and his replacement, and live just over half the time that a mare of equivalent health would.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:04 am

SilentCarto wrote:Neither side was accustomed to war or hate, and this didn't give them any time to learn how to channel it safely. Two nations' worth of outrage turned the war into a jihad on both sides, and the assassination attempt that killed Macintosh destroyed any hope for the dialogue that could have resolved the misunderstandings.
I'd disagree with this a bit. Neither side knew hate on this scale, yes, and Equestria was unaccustomed to war, but the Zebras had war in their known history, albeit no great industrial wars on this scale. I also view the development of the jihadi mindset as a more gradual thing, and not even a really accurate one on the Zebra side. Equestria leapt into it pretty quickly, not knowing what they were doing. The Zebras basically saw "Well, they're lead by someone who used to be one of the most evil figures in out mythology, they're escalating the war to new and more terrible heights, they're blaming us for things that we didn't do (an iffy thing, but I expect that, whether accurate or not, there was at least rather widespread disbelief about what the Zebras were told they'd done), and now they're teaching their foals that we're monsters" and came to logical conclusions based on those premises (On the whole, that is. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a few of them were "Nightmare Moon has tainted all ponies! THE TAINT MUST BE PURGED!"). Things built from there.

Custardman wrote:Hello, I'm actually looking to create a cityscape piece of Hoofington, does any body know where in the story i could look to get the best details of the city? Or maybe explain how the city roughly looks like? It's been a while since I've actually read the descriptions and I have it in my head as a foreboding wall of crumbling monolithic buildings behind a high concrete wall. I'd like to know if my mind is generating the correct picture or if I am off on some details.
Welcome to the PHCC! I'm afraid that I can't really help you at the moment, but I expect that someone else here will be able to.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:08 am

Sindri wrote:
FeatherDust wrote:
Erumpet wrote:
OneMoreDaySK wrote:On the topic of genetics, how were males bred in 99? And what happens when a mare has a colt or twins? Infanticide?
If a mare had a colt, the colt was put into a sort of 24/7 daycare watch program until they turned 15, and then they were put into the breeding pool and one was taken out. I'm not sure about twins. Somber?
Unfortunately unlikely, E.

Over the course of producing 20 offspring, a male needs to produce 19 fillies and one colt. He can't have more than one son, his own replacement, while the other 19 are fillies. Each pregnancy has a 50/50 chance of being male. To have 95% of his offspring be fillies, something has to happen to the other ~18 colts.

I doubt it's anything as gruesome as infanticide; probably they identify and abort most colts early on.
The gender ratio we've seen so far in the show is somewhere around 6 female : 1 male. 99 has 500 mares and ~50 bucks at a time (20 each of unicorns and earth ponies in service and ~10 underage), so that goes up to about 10:1 but we know already that males have shorter lifespans (being retired early instead of continuing until death by accident or nature), so it pretty much works out.

Each buck would produce an average of six fillies and his replacement, and live just over half the time that a mare of equivalent health would.
Oh, I remember us having a huge discussion about this a while ago... but as I recall, it made Somber eyetwitch by the end. Particularly the math I showed them, for some reason.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:19 am

O. Hinds wrote:Oh, I remember us having a huge discussion about this a while ago... but as I recall, it made Somber eyetwitch by the end. Particularly the math I showed them, for some reason.
Right. Consider the topic dropped from my end; we don't want to cause more Somber eyetwitches than are strictly necessary. Should I get away from genetics altogether or just inside 99?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:35 am

Sindri wrote:
Which means that random pair of unicorns has a 53.59% chance of both being Ppuu, and a 25% if they are of having a pegasus child, which works out to a 13.40% chance overall of a random foal from a random pair of pegasi being a unicorn, which is 1 in 7.46!
...Which is close enough to make me wonder if you've already done all this math and I've wasted my time, or if you're just really really good at estimating probabilities.
Eh, little of column A, little of column B. I didn't really run through all the math you did there; I estimated a 50% chance of a Ppuu pairing in a unicorn couple, times a 1 in 4 chance of a child getting both p genes, which is 1/8.

So that thing you said is totally true and I've forgotten the point you were making with it in the first place.
Derpy Hooves
Oh, well, the point being that this theory doesn't hold up, because it would require cross-breed offspring with no known cross-breed ancestor to be so common (at least among unicorns) that it would be a well-known fact of life, and therefore not cause for embarrassment or particular comment (at least not more so than, say, a pair of twins). Pegasi would never have them, and earth ponies would have them, uh... I think I estimated 1/16 without actually doing any math to back it up. In any case, it wouldn't be so rare as, say, brown-eyed couples having blue-eyed kids in our world. Unusual but not so rare that Mr Cake would find it necessary to stretch for a justification for his kids.

So, possibilities I have come up with, in increasing order of probability:
...
-I'm wrong. Please propose alternate theories.
...
Well, at this point I have to come back to reality and say the most likely explanation is that they're going by cartoon genetics, which is to say that the child will always match the breed of one of the parents. There IS no valid explanation, because there doesn't have to be when you're just writing a cartoon show.

And I hate to use that argument, but there it is. No theory can fit all the evidence (which is what science would demand), because the evidence isn't limited by an underlying law. Trying to extrapolate rules from evidence that was not created by any set of rules is doomed to fail.

And that's why I put more emphasis on Mr Cake's reaction than on any particular piece of evidence from the show -- the former was explicitly and intentionally created by the writer and artists, while the latter is the result of entirely different forces, like storytelling and aesthetics. And I do firmly believe that the scene was meant as a "getting crap past the radar" joke that was intended to imply some sort of infidelity (though like I said, I can't think that badly of Cupcake, so I just assume there was a good reason for, well, not having Mr Cake directly involved).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Moodyman90 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:40 am

Sorry to break up the current discussion but you just gotta love the thread breaks.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:43 am

Erumpet wrote:Why do they have to produce twenty offspring Featherdust?
Sindri wrote:Each buck would produce an average of six fillies and his replacement, and live just over half the time that a mare of equivalent health would.
For some reason I was thinking they got dotted when they had a kid rather than when a new buck came into the roster. Ignore me, I'll just be over there. -->
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:45 am

Custardman wrote:Hello, I'm actually looking to create a cityscape piece of Hoofington, does any body know where in the story i could look to get the best details of the city? Or maybe explain how the city roughly looks like? It's been a while since I've actually read the descriptions and I have it in my head as a foreboding wall of crumbling monolithic buildings behind a high concrete wall. I'd like to know if my mind is generating the correct picture or if I am off on some details.

Sorry I'm useless for what you requested but as soon as sindri gets off his genetic distribution lecture he will likely point you in the right direction the best way to get attention is to join an argument and then bring up your questions as you argue since people will be paying closer attention to your posts there
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Admiral Stoic Rum on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:50 am

EVERYBODY WELCOME CUSTARDMAN! Admiral's order's
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:54 am

Hey, uh, I had a question I could've sworn I posted a few weeks ago but now I can't find it and I don't remember ever getting any answers, and the search function here appears to be completely useless.

How did 99's Overmare get infected with the raider virus? I thought it was supposed to only be spread by cannibalism. If it's, um, sexually transmitted, that would kind of make sense as to why it makes raiders so, uh... rapey (encouraging its own vectors), but if that's the case then it would be likely to be infectious in all body fluids, particularly blood, and in that case how is everyone not infected?

Actually it seems unlikely to be sexually transmissible, since there's all those Crusaders BJ rescued, and none of them have gone insane in a similar time period to the Overmare turning raider.

Check my continuity memory here -- After Deus's attack in Ch 1, the Overmare turned raider and ordered everyone to eat the dead raiders from the initial assault, which is what infected half of 99. The other half refused, barricaded themselves in, and waited. Then BJ came back and took out the raider half, but what's her name put the infected 99ers in the recycler, thus infecting everyone who avoided the first round.

Did I get that all correct?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:58 am

I believe the overmare bit someponies dick when he was orally violating her, although I can't back that up that's just what came to mind when you asked. Now that I think about it, that doesn't make sense unless she swallowed the meat.

Edit: you are oll korrect about the chain of events leading up to the fall of 99.


Last edited by Erumpet on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:01 am

@Custardman: welcome to the phcc. I cannot answer your question, although I believe Kippershy may be working on a similar project, or at least some desolate city skyline. The whole spiel about this little group should be at the head of one of these threads, but basically if Somber ain't happy, ain't nopony happy.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:14 am

@Custardman
Well, I know that Fluttershy called it "postmodern minimalist brutalism" when it was up and operational, which basically means big, boxy, concrete, and built to like every building's a bomb shelter (which they probably were).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:27 am

Sindri wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:Oh, I remember us having a huge discussion about this a while ago... but as I recall, it made Somber eyetwitch by the end. Particularly the math I showed them, for some reason.
Right. Consider the topic dropped from my end; we don't want to cause more Somber eyetwitches than are strictly necessary. Should I get away from genetics altogether or just inside 99?
Oh no, pony genetics are fine. It's the specific questions "How many ponies are in 99?", "How long do males live?", "How many children does each male produce?", etc. that are the potential problem. I seem to recall that I somehow got it worked out to my satisfaction and then dropped it, though this may simply be a defense by my memory to keep me from delving back in and causing more trouble with my terrifying math.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:07 am

Custardman wrote:Hello, I'm actually looking to create a cityscape piece of Hoofington, does any body know where in the story i could look to get the best details of the city? Or maybe explain how the city roughly looks like? It's been a while since I've actually read the descriptions and I have it in my head as a foreboding wall of crumbling monolithic buildings behind a high concrete wall. I'd like to know if my mind is generating the correct picture or if I am off on some details.
That matches up with my mental image for it (with the addition of an vague but ominous green haze sometimes maybe?) but I don't have a page or even chapter reference for you. Sorry. Shy



FeatherDust wrote:Oh, well, the point being that this theory doesn't hold up, because it would require cross-breed offspring with no known cross-breed ancestor to be so common (at least among unicorns) that it would be a well-known fact of life, and therefore not cause for embarrassment or particular comment (at least not more so than, say, a pair of twins). Pegasi would never have them, and earth ponies would have them, uh... I think I estimated 1/16 without actually doing any math to back it up. In any case, it wouldn't be so rare as, say, brown-eyed couples having blue-eyed kids in our world. Unusual but not so rare that Mr Cake would find it necessary to stretch for a justification for his kids.
But those Pp unicorns would have a high chance of having a pegasus parent or grandparent; the child wouldn't come as a surprise. The probability is a lot less than 1/8 when you go back four generations without a pegasus, and might raise some eyebrows then, but it remains possible.


Two randomly selected earth ponies, by my math, have a 14.8% chance of giving birth to a unicorn and a 13.4% of a pegasus. With two earth ponies who have no direct unicorn or pegasus ancestors within four generation, that drops to maybe as small as one in a couple thousand (can't do numbers without looking at a family tree). Which is unlikely, maybe enough for people to wonder if it happened legitimately, but well within the realms of possibility if there were non-earth ponies anywhere in the family tree.

If such a thing happened in, say, the Apple family? Where we've seen about a hundred relatives and not a horn or wing among them? I'd call bullshit too. But the chance in the Cakes' case might be as high as 1% even if we assume that he had the full genealogy for four generations on both sides memorized.

Looking at the actual episode instead of the fan parody, he looks a lot more like a nervous new father than some manner of conspirator. And you'll note that the question was asked by Applejack, the one who comes from a large tree of nothing but earth ponies, is prejudiced against magic and its wielders, and regards anything involving "fancy mathematics" with disdain, while Twilight and Fluttershy (the ones likely to know these things and to pick up on details) have no objection.


I am aware that there's a chance that nobody on the writing staff actually put any thought into these details, and that any set of rules will ultimately be false. However, I have seen nothing so far to convince me of this. My theories appear to fit all the available evidence and took me a grand total of three minutes thought to formulate (followed by twenty minutes of math checking and justifying), and unless future evidence indicates otherwise I choose to believe that the writers of the show have at least highschool educations and put some thought into their work. Given the amount of effort they put into making the show intelligent enough to appeal to parents and bronies, plus the fact that they actually mentioned the issue, I think it quite probable that they have in fact worked out the rules of pony genetics. I have certainly been given no reason to believe that any form of infidelity was involved, and think that the direct suggestion of such a thing without a solid logical explanation of how it didn't actually happen would be much less likely in a children's show.

Tell you what: if we ever see two pegasi producing a unicorn foal, and two unicorns producing a pegasus foal, I will admit that my current theories are incorrect and either make new ones that fit the additional evidence or give up entirely.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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