[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

NoodleNugget wrote:Nothing should ever come down to arithmetic when it concerns another living being. We/They are not machines, we/they are not cold heartless beings who only count. we/they are living breathing, feeling, beings who can love, who can hate, who can pity and can praise. We/they laugh and cry. We/they feel pain. We/they feel pleasure. We/they struggle to survive each day and by some miracle we/they do.

We/they are not numbers.

We/they are not robots.

In the end, though, it does all come down to quantifiables. This many coulombs of charge in a neuron, that many milliliters of a hormone, the molecules of DNA and organelles... We are complex, but we still boil down to the same mechanical relations and quantum randomness as the rest of the universe. Squishy robots with the paradox of sentience, but no less robotic than any other lifeform.

O. Hinds wrote:Squishy robots with the paradox of sentience, but no less robotic than any other lifeform.

Our bodies are pure mechanics, but our minds are... weird. Honestly it seems sometimes like a soul is the only way to explain the mind, and if you assume that there is some metaphysical "self" beyond(/within/beside/whatever) the body then everything starts to get a lot less mathematically explicable.

Wait, were the existence of the soul and/or the value of human life on the list of topics to avoid?

NoodleNugget wrote:glad to have been taken seriously.
oh well.
how has everyone's day been?

I'm sorry, that wasn't intended as mockery. I agree with everything you said!
And that's really where Goldie ends up on the wrong end of the equation, for me. His means are more subtle than Red Eye's, but it's a similar tactic. He kills, ruins lives, and destroys minds in pursuit of... whatever he's pursuing. It just shifts the lesson from the populace to the eminence gris that manipulates it. It's a police state, in secret. As long as you live in blissful ignorance, you're fine, but if you speak out or even simply know the wrong things, you're mind controlled, or vanished, or you have an 'accident'. What good can you build on that foundation?

Sindri wrote:If you are given the choice between one innocent life and a hundred innocent lives, can you call yourself good when you choose one over many?

There's a world of difference between being forced by circumstances into a choice like that, and willingly spending lives when you have other options. You still try as hard as you can not to have to make that kind of choice.

Sindri wrote:
Wait, were the existence of the soul and/or the value of human life on the list of topics to avoid?

As far as I know, sadly, yes.

Sindri wrote:Our bodies are pure mechanics, but our minds are... weird. Honestly it seems sometimes like a soul is the only way to explain the mind, and if you assume that there is some metaphysical "self" beyond(/within/beside/whatever) the body then everything starts to get a lot less mathematically explicable.

Not really... thought (not even intelligence) is an emergent behavior of a vastly complicated system. There's not strictly a requirement of anything supernatural to see that effect. But that doesn't make it any less valuable. The capacity for reason, emotion, and creativity is the most valuable thing imaginable.

SilentCarto wrote:

Sindri wrote:Our bodies are pure mechanics, but our minds are... weird. Honestly it seems sometimes like a soul is the only way to explain the mind, and if you assume that there is some metaphysical "self" beyond(/within/beside/whatever) the body then everything starts to get a lot less mathematically explicable.

Not really... thought (not even intelligence) is an emergent behavior of a vastly complicated system. There's not strictly a requirement of anything supernatural to see that effect. But that doesn't make it any less valuable. The capacity for reason, emotion, and creativity is the most valuable thing imaginable.

We don't know how thought and reason really work. To paraphrase a quote from someone:
"If the human brain were easy for us to understand, we'd be so simple we couldn't."

ketchup504 wrote:We don't know how thought and reason really work. To paraphrase a quote from someone:
"If the human brain were easy for us to understand, we'd be so simple we couldn't."

Point being, it doesn't really matter how it works. Even if the brain were nothing but a collection of metaphorical cogs and gears, it wouldn't be less valuable.

SilentCarto wrote:

ketchup504 wrote:We don't know how thought and reason really work. To paraphrase a quote from someone:
"If the human brain were easy for us to understand, we'd be so simple we couldn't."

Point being, it doesn't really matter how it works. Even if the brain were nothing but a collection of metaphorical cogs and gears, it wouldn't be less valuable.

True that.

I believe a person's thoughts and actions can all be explained through the chemistry and physics of the brain and the rest of the human body, even though we are quite a ways away from figuring out the nitty gritty details of exactly how everything in the brain works. That said, one's "self" is not nearly so easy to explain.

If I could figure out how to give brohoofs I would give one to all of you. you guys have no idea how cool I think this discussion has been.

NoodleNugget wrote:glad to have been taken seriously.
oh well.
how has everyone's day been?

You misunderstand - I take my Iron Maiden (and "The Prisoner") very seriously. (Scoots was headbanging; she has the voice of a future black metal screecher IMO)

Unfortunately, I must now recuse myself from this conversation, because I talk about souls and free will way, way too much as it is. =P And whoever said it is right that this may be on the (short) list of Topics What We Aren't Supposed To Chat About, too.

jacky2734 wrote:

Nightmare Moon wrote:
Am I the only one here that agreed with what Goldenblood did, and what Red Eye was/is doing?
I'm personally in the group that believes the Ends always justify the Means, and the two of them were doing everything they could to make Equestria a better place, or in Goldenblood's case, to end the war. They've taken the weight of all of those sins, and held them on their own shoulders so that others may live on in a better world than what there already was. Again, just my own opinions, and in no way showing the opinions of Cloudsville, the New Lunar Republic, or any other community as a whole.
(initiating arguments in 5...4...)
That's what I'm waiting on too

I'm all for "end justifying means" as long as it's the means to the appropriate end.
I'm still holding my opinion of Goldenblood and his methods back until we actually find out what end he was working to.
As far as Redeye goes though, can you honestly say that the end he was working towards was truly for the best. To coin a phrase, Utopia cannot be built on the backs of slaves. Even if his plan had succeeded, it would have turned Equestria into a complete distopia, with the prior generation being worked to death and the future generations being brainwashed. All the while, being ruled by an abomination who had control of the very sky.

I believe it was.
Without knowledge of Gardens and SPP, was there really anyone else who had a plan to rebuild Equestria? and even those who knew of Gardens/SPP didn't have a plan of what to do after using it. Removing radiation and taint from Equestria and removing the cloud curtain would not fix the wasteland. There would still be raiders running about, because people (or ponies in this case) do not change just because the world is suddenly prettier and healthier. And there would still be no industry, which is what Red Eye was providing, no matter how you look at it.
Red Eye was making the important things happen, and I find that more prudent than what Gardens and SPP would accomplish.

Nightmare Moon wrote:Without knowledge of Gardens and SPP, was there really anyone else who had a plan to rebuild Equestria? and even those who knew of Gardens/SPP didn't have a plan of what to do after using it. Removing radiation and taint from Equestria and removing the cloud curtain would not fix the wasteland. There would still be raiders running about, because people (or ponies in this case) do not change just because the world is suddenly prettier and healthier.

On the GEq specifically, the solution to raiders and wasteland threats was to not have them. The thought of nuclear (magical?) annihilation was strange and far away enough; none of the individuals involved in the GEq would have known about raiders and radscorpions and slavers... just radiation. Fallout.

NoodleNugget wrote:If I could figure out how to give brohoofs I would give one to all of you. you guys have no idea how cool I think this discussion has been.

Next to everyone's profile picture is a little + and a -. Use the +.

That actually what makes Red Eye a great villain. He was right about nearly everything and in the end would have been the best solution if it wasn't for Littlepip and the others setting their own plan into motion. He was an evil bastard with good intentions, and for the most part was a well spoken and polite bastard at that.

I can't say I agreed with him though. I can see where his methods would have worked, but much like the others my morality won't let me accept it. Same reason I have trouble going with the Legion in Fallout: New Vegas. I can be nice to them for a while, but eventually I walk into their camp with Boone, both of us in power armor, him with a 50 cal. and incendiary rounds, and me with enough weapons to level New Vegas itself.

'ello everyone! ChocobunnySK here. Took me a while to find where you all went after being out for a week. Laptop is down, so I'm using my iPod, with all the horrible autocorrect that entails. Seem like you not only moved, you already got yourselves a locked thread. Good job.

So aside from the new rp thread and Kim's and kipper's discussions, just got to ask what the deal is with the banana, the dolphin, and whatever Mr. Hands is?

OneMoreDaySK wrote:So aside from the new rp thread and Kim's and kipper's discussions, just got to ask what the deal is with the banana, the dolphin, and whatever Mr. Hands is?

The dolphin is a dolphin, no more, no less. The banana is your only chance of surviving orientation. Do not ask about Hands.

@Ketchup: Ah good, I thought I had pulled up that topic before with some random reason xD

@Necr0: Sorry, but your name always remind me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gPi3U0V7WLI#t=80s xP (anyone with bad RPG humour, feel free to watch the whole Gamers 1 and 2, or just from the start of that clip.)

Kattlarv wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gPi3U0V7WLI#t=80s xP (anyone with bad RPG humour, feel free to watch the whole Gamers 1 and 2, or just from the start of that clip.)

My friend has had games where they do these things, and whenever they screwed up, the "Magic Obi-Wan of Time Reversal", represented by a LEGO Obi-Wan, got them out of it. Needless to say, they did some pretty stupid things for that to have been necessary.

"Magic Obi-Wan of Time Reversal" sounds like an awesome RP tool.

Moodyman90 wrote:Same reason I have trouble going with the Legion in Fallout: New Vegas. I can be nice to them for a while, but eventually I walk into their camp with Boone, both of us in power armor, him with a 50 cal. and incendiary rounds, and me with enough weapons to level New Vegas itself.

Every time Caesar started talking about bringing order to the tribals, I couldn't help but mutter, "Yeah, and the trains will run on time." Red Eye made a much better case.
It always pissed me off that I couldn't target Caesar's tent with Euclid's C-Finder from across the river.
...so instead, I dropped four or five blocks of C4 at the feet of Caesar and each of his Praetorians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY6tCnu-1Do#t=17s

I'm eventually going to walk in there with a Fatman and reduce his tent to ashes. Of course then there's those two challenges if you have Gun Runner's Assault installed.
"Even A God King Can Bleed" in which you deliver a crit hit to his head with a thrown spear and something about taking a knife and going all Ides of March on him.

@Ketchup: Dude, you do NOT want to know what my RPG gang comes up with. My kobolds "log" being one of them xD

[quote="SilentCarto"]

Moodyman90 wrote:It always pissed me off that I couldn't target Caesar's tent with Euclid's C-Finder from across the river.
...so instead, I dropped four or five blocks of C4 at the feet of Caesar and each of his Praetorians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY6tCnu-1Do#t=17s

I... let him live. I still don't know why. I managed to sneak Benny out alive, and I killed the praetorian jerkface and the guy at the arena. It would have been less than child's play to shove a golden glove where the sun don't shine... but it didn't seem right. The whole Vegas play-through was weird- changed up the style for a different pace. More aggressive. More mistakes, too. Still good guy... felt like the burly sidekick who was forced into a hero's role when the true hero (who had the brains to tag Speech) never showed up. Muscles didn't save the Mojave. Didn't matter how many ghost people I tore apart with my bare hands, I couldn't hold Dog and God together with a bear-trap. What would have happened if it was Calamity instead of Littlepip at the helm?

In the early chapters, that's how I would have described PH. Fallout: Equestria if Calamity was in charge. Not so simple anymore.

Eh, pardon the personal tangent.

Kattlarv wrote:@Ketchup: Dude, you do NOT want to know what my RPG gang comes up with. My kobolds "log" being one of them xD

Ah, connotations.

Once, in the Star Wars D20, we disabled a corvette by passing the damage threshold with a YT1300, which is a small civilian freighter(same class as the Millennium Falcon). We did this by putting 100000 credits that we got from gambling into shield generators and proton torpedoes. The DM was not too happy. While capturing it, my character got shot up and piss drunk. We stopped playing afterwards.

[quote="Meleagridis"]

SilentCarto wrote:

Moodyman90 wrote:It always pissed me off that I couldn't target Caesar's tent with Euclid's C-Finder from across the river.
...so instead, I dropped four or five blocks of C4 at the feet of Caesar and each of his Praetorians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY6tCnu-1Do#t=17s

I... let him live. I still don't know why. I managed to sneak Benny out alive, and I killed the praetorian jerkface and the guy at the arena. It would have been less than child's play to shove a golden glove where the sun don't shine... but it didn't seem right. The whole Vegas play-through was weird- changed up the style for a different pace. More aggressive. More mistakes, too. Still good guy... felt like the burly sidekick who was forced into a hero's role when the true hero (who had the brains to tag Speech) never showed up. Muscles didn't save the Mojave. Didn't matter how many ghost people I tore apart with my bare hands, I couldn't hold Dog and God together with a bear-trap. What would have happened if it was Calamity instead of Littlepip at the helm?

In the early chapters, that's how I would have described PH. Fallout: Equestria if Calamity was in charge. Not so simple anymore.

Eh, pardon the personal tangent.

It sounds like you had a very interesting gaming experience indeed. Even when I change things up I end up doing everything the same. I can't help but tag speech and pour points into it, even if it's only a few every level. I can say it's cause I like to talk my way out of situations cause I've walked into way to many enemy camps and left nothing but body parts and shell casing left in my wake.

FO:E if Calamity was in charge...that would be so entertaining, and not only because he was my crush in that story

I've yet to read a fic that made me develop a crush on a character. I guess other then being ponies none of them have been my type.

Though I will admit Calamity would be a cool pony to meet in real life and hang out with. I also find myself connecting with him. Probably about his kill all raiders code.

Moodyman90 wrote:Though I will admit Calamity would be a cool pony to meet in real life and hang out with. I also find myself connecting with him. Probably about his kill all raiders code.

1) If I felt motivated enough, I'd go and turn that into an "X all the Y" picture.

2) Holy shit, I went over to Know Your Meme to find a preexisting pony-form "x all the y" image to post here, and I found THIS:



Whoever did this is officially several flavors of awesome.

I saw that on dA earlier. I laughed so hard.