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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:56 pm

Last wrote:Then why isn't Cadence (According to Lauren.) the unicorn she was originally intended to be?
Give me one other example. I honestly think Hasbro just wanted a pink alicorn princess. Not just merchandising. Like you pointed out, it was a good way to transition out of a pink Celestia.
If they begin making more than one mandate every two seasons I might start thinking you're right.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:08 pm

swicked wrote:
Give me one other example. I honestly think Hasbro just wanted a pink alicorn princess. Not just merchandising. Like you pointed out, it was a good way to transition out of a pink Celestia.
If they begin making more than one mandate every two seasons I might start thinking you're right.

I can only think of two other examples. The train in season 2's opening and the balloon the mane6 use on rare occasions I feel that both those vehicles are far too uber pink stereotypical girly to not have some merchandising influence.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:08 pm

Sorry, accidental double post.


Last edited by Last on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kippershy on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:08 pm

swicked wrote:
Last wrote:Then why isn't Cadence (According to Lauren.) the unicorn she was originally intended to be?
Give me one other example. I honestly think Hasbro just wanted a pink alicorn princess. Not just merchandising. Like you pointed out, it was a good way to transition out of a pink Celestia.
If they begin making more than one mandate every two seasons I might start thinking you're right.

Tank.
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(POSSIBLY) Crystal ponies (though this seems in line with the show, rather then early release of merch and OHSHITGOTTAMAKETHATNOW)

Other stuff too, most likely.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:24 pm

Hasbro should really at this point just have a general MLP line and a specific FIM line. Parents won't know the difference and it could settle the general disagreements adult fans of the cartoon have. The cartoon is made to sell the toys but the toys don't have to be accurate to how they're predicted on tv, so a separate line solves this and keeps creative freedom intact.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:45 pm

Kippershy wrote:
swicked wrote:
Last wrote:Then why isn't Cadence (According to Lauren.) the unicorn she was originally intended to be?
Give me one other example. I honestly think Hasbro just wanted a pink alicorn princess. Not just merchandising. Like you pointed out, it was a good way to transition out of a pink Celestia.
If they begin making more than one mandate every two seasons I might start thinking you're right.

Tank.
Cadence
(POSSIBLY) Crystal ponies (though this seems in line with the show, rather then early release of merch and OHSHITGOTTAMAKETHATNOW)

Other stuff too, most likely.
Tank? You sure? That episode was pretty great in my opinion and didn't feel particularly forced to me.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:23 pm

swicked wrote:Tank? You sure? That episode was pretty great in my opinion and didn't feel particularly forced to me.

There was an RD toy that came packaged with a pet turtle, but I don't think the episode was the result of merchandising's influence. I think it's more likely that one of the writers saw the toy and drew inspiration from it.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:29 pm

Last wrote:While I'm over here we're were having a discussion over on the RP thread and I'd like to ask your opinions. Does this pony look like a Mare or a stallion?

Spoiler:
Looks pretty androgynous to me.

Erumpet wrote:@Last: Mare
@Hinds: I like the big picture, I don't know of the others were big as well, I can't click on links because I'm on my phone. As for a diesel electric engine, why not make it an ethanol/methanol locomotive? Wouldn't that be more in line with the Whiskey Queen's style?
An alcohol-fueled probably steam locomotive would make sense for a lower tech level group without access to petroleum refining or the old Zebra pre-petroleum alchemical techniques for producing cic (diesel fuel; pronounced "keek"), but the diesel electric design here is more efficient while the fuel itself is more readily available to the operators in sufficient quantities than alcohol is. This doesn't really have anything do to with Queen Whiskey (I assume; PH isn't over yet, though, so I can't be entirely sure that something won't come up).

Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:

Any thoughts on this as a bogie for a postapocalypse C-C armored diesel-electric locomotive?


edit: Ooh, Icy Shake (or anyone else, of course), new question for you, if you feel like it: Any ideas about Equestrian railway curve radii?

I think the bogie looks pretty good.
Thanks!

Icy Shake wrote:As for the curve radii...

This was about the best I could find out of the three major train episodes to give an idea of minimum radius. Sadly, it suggests a radius of only about 40'2" (12.25m), which seems insanely tight. If the track is heavily canted and the train moving very slowly, it might be able to work, but I'm guessing either I'm getting something wrong or there was a reason the trains are never shown taking curves in the foreground.
Spoiler:
I'm taking distances off of the yellow line, extrapolating the inner edge of the outer track using the black oval, and estimated the center from the intersection of the red lines.
The distance from the inner edge of the outer track to the center is 241 pixels; the gauge of the track is 42 pixels. 241/42*7 = 40 1/6' = 40'2" or just under 12.25m.
Of course, even if my number is approximately correct, this doesn't end up being quite so bad if we assume that this turn is pushing the design to the edge of the technology's capabilities, and most turns have radii significantly greater than this one.
I knew that I could count on you! Yikes, though... even if I turned the bogies sixty degrees, I still wouldn't be able to have even eleven meters between them. Hm... Well, given the short lengths of Equestria's observed rolling stock, there wouldn't be an incentive there to make larger curves... but on the other hoof, there is still the speed argument. That's the line up to Canterlot, yes? If so, we could probably get away with arguing that that's a special case (...Unless this is the usual method Equestria's permanent way engineers use to conquer high grades, but longer routes would probably want to do without the speed reduction...).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:46 pm

@Hinds: Sorry, when you posted a post Apacolyptic train design using pony train specifications in the PH thread I just jumped to the conclusion you where designing it for Blackjack and co. Just as sort of a fun side project thingy type deal. Also, sorry I can't be more help with the technical train stuff, but it all sounds cool and is interesting to read about. About the fuel though, I think that alcohol would be much more readily available than cic just because ponies still use alcohol and there is a demand and supply of it in the wasteland. I don't think anypony is producing or using cic.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Caoimhe on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:47 pm

Speaking of trains, has there been any art of BJ running down the tracks pulling her carted friends and getting tore up?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Aonee on Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:50 pm

On the trains, would a plausible theory be that the wheels are enchanted to stay on the track? It'd be a lot safer, and would sound like something the unicorns have access to.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:05 pm

O. Hinds wrote:

Erumpet wrote:@Last: Mare
@Hinds: I like the big picture, I don't know of the others were big as well, I can't click on links because I'm on my phone. As for a diesel electric engine, why not make it an ethanol/methanol locomotive? Wouldn't that be more in line with the Whiskey Queen's style?
An alcohol-fueled probably steam locomotive would make sense for a lower tech level group without access to petroleum refining or the old Zebra pre-petroleum alchemical techniques for producing cic (diesel fuel; pronounced "keek"), but the diesel electric design here is more efficient while the fuel itself is more readily available to the operators in sufficient quantities than alcohol is. This doesn't really have anything do to with Queen Whiskey (I assume; PH isn't over yet, though, so I can't be entirely sure that something won't come up).

Yeah, and if you were going for a biological rather than mineral fuel source at their technology level, I'd point you to biodiesel before ethanol, anyway.

O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:As for the curve radii...

This was about the best I could find out of the three major train episodes to give an idea of minimum radius. Sadly, it suggests a radius of only about 40'2" (12.25m), which seems insanely tight. If the track is heavily canted and the train moving very slowly, it might be able to work, but I'm guessing either I'm getting something wrong or there was a reason the trains are never shown taking curves in the foreground.
Spoiler:
I'm taking distances off of the yellow line, extrapolating the inner edge of the outer track using the black oval, and estimated the center from the intersection of the red lines.
The distance from the inner edge of the outer track to the center is 241 pixels; the gauge of the track is 42 pixels. 241/42*7 = 40 1/6' = 40'2" or just under 12.25m.
Of course, even if my number is approximately correct, this doesn't end up being quite so bad if we assume that this turn is pushing the design to the edge of the technology's capabilities, and most turns have radii significantly greater than this one.
I knew that I could count on you! Yikes, though... even if I turned the bogies sixty degrees, I still wouldn't be able to have even eleven meters between them. Hm... Well, given the short lengths of Equestria's observed rolling stock, there wouldn't be an incentive there to make larger curves... but on the other hoof, there is still the speed argument. That's the line up to Canterlot, yes? If so, we could probably get away with arguing that that's a special case (...Unless this is the usual method Equestria's permanent way engineers use to conquer high grades, but longer routes would probably want to do without the speed reduction...).

Yes, that is the Canterlot-Ponyville line. And you're right about the length issue; I was originally going to bring up the problem of getting rigid cars to make the turn, before I saw that there's only about 18' between the axles. Seems pretty inefficient if you want to work with mass freight, but perhaps they're fine with it since it seems they were starting from a primarily overland system, rather than a river-, canal-, and sea-based freight transit system that could have handled real volume.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Erumpet wrote:@Hinds: Sorry, when you posted a post Apacolyptic train design using pony train specifications in the PH thread I just jumped to the conclusion you where designing it for Blackjack and co. Just as sort of a fun side project thingy type deal. Also, sorry I can't be more help with the technical train stuff, but it all sounds cool and is interesting to read about. About the fuel though, I think that alcohol would be much more readily available than cic just because ponies still use alcohol and there is a demand and supply of it in the wasteland. I don't think anypony is producing or using cic.
The builders and operators of this locomotive are (lots of headcanon in this). Yes, an alcohol fuel infrastructure would likely be easier to set up in modern Equestria (not really a wasteland anymore), but it isn't actually extant in Equestria or, as far as I know, the nearby areas. The petroleum extraction, transportation, and refining systems are, though, as are the manufacturers of engines that run on cic and cicl (gas turbine fuel; pronounced "keekel") and the manufacturers of vehicles using those engines. So, while an alcohol-based system would be easier to set up in Equestria, it's even easier than that (neglecting likely considerable political wrangling with the NCR) to expand the already-extant petroleum-based system into (well, further into, if you count San Franciscolt) Equestria, and the land and air transport provided by the New Equestria Transportation Corporation is so much better than what the NCR could build itself at the moment (well, the air thing would be iffy if the NCR trusted the pegasi extensively, but I'm assuming that they don't) that the local transportation systems fail before they're started (which is exactly what the people running the NETC and its siblings want).

Aonee wrote:On the trains, would a plausible theory be that the wheels are enchanted to stay on the track? It'd be a lot safer, and would sound like something the unicorns have access to.
Maybe, but I'm not sure how well iron/steel would take enchantments like that. And it would surely be easier and in almost all circumstances more efficient to just use flanged wheels.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:29 pm

Well, I did it. Got Fallout 3 running, and it only took... well, many hours. More if you count the download and re-download from Steam. Now all I have to do is install mods, make my own personal versions of said mods, create compatibility patches, and then spend a few hours troubleshooting what went wrong with all that! (Hinds, if you want I can try to recount how I got my copy working - on a configuration that by all accounts online REALLY should not be able to run it - but in my experience with the game, it's almost always something completely different and random that you need to do to get it up and running)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:33 pm

@Hinds: I'll admit, most of that I didn't understand. However, if I think I'm getting the gist of it. So this train is being built by the NCR, after the gardens were activated and society has started to reform. I guess my question is what infrastructure? As far as I am aware, trains in Equestria didn't traditionally use a liquid fuel, and neither did cars. Trains burned coal to presumably power steam engines, and carriages were pulled by ponies. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a significant oil or petroleum base in equestria. I thought it was all coal based. To be fair, I've only read FOE through once, so I am not the best informed on this universe. To be honest, I don't know why the NCR or whoever else wouldn't just continue using coal instead of any liquid fuel source because as somepony said, there is coal in Equestria, just not a lot of it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:38 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:

Erumpet wrote:@Last: Mare
@Hinds: I like the big picture, I don't know of the others were big as well, I can't click on links because I'm on my phone. As for a diesel electric engine, why not make it an ethanol/methanol locomotive? Wouldn't that be more in line with the Whiskey Queen's style?
An alcohol-fueled probably steam locomotive would make sense for a lower tech level group without access to petroleum refining or the old Zebra pre-petroleum alchemical techniques for producing cic (diesel fuel; pronounced "keek"), but the diesel electric design here is more efficient while the fuel itself is more readily available to the operators in sufficient quantities than alcohol is. This doesn't really have anything do to with Queen Whiskey (I assume; PH isn't over yet, though, so I can't be entirely sure that something won't come up).

Yeah, and if you were going for a biological rather than mineral fuel source at their technology level, I'd point you to biodiesel before ethanol, anyway.
Hm... I'd disagree there. Biodiesel is still a significantly higher tech level than an alcohol-fueled steam engine. In addition to alcohol being easier to produce (find something, anything, that can ferment and set up a still, and don't even worry too much about separating the different kinds of alcohol if you're just going to burn it rather than drink it), a diesel engine requires better materials, manufacturing tolerances, design tolerances, etc. Expand that to a diesel electric drive system for a locomotive, and you add requirements for generator design and construction, motor design and construction, electricity handling gear, etc. Ponies, as far as we know, never really got into internal combustion engines at all, so even the Steel Rangers or Enclave remnants would probably have to develop/redevelop tech or rely on old stolen Zebra technology. Equestria has built plenty of steam locomotives of its own, though; the Steel Rangers probably have plans on file somewhere, the factory(ries?) might still be standing in Fillydelphia, and there's even at least one, probably more, locomotive still in modified use. In short, it would be, I think, far easier for the NCR to set up an alcohol fuel infrastructure and design and build alcohol-fueled steam locomotives than it would be for them to create a biodiesel fuel infrastructure and design and build diesel-electric locomotives.

Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:As for the curve radii...

This was about the best I could find out of the three major train episodes to give an idea of minimum radius. Sadly, it suggests a radius of only about 40'2" (12.25m), which seems insanely tight. If the track is heavily canted and the train moving very slowly, it might be able to work, but I'm guessing either I'm getting something wrong or there was a reason the trains are never shown taking curves in the foreground.
Spoiler:
I'm taking distances off of the yellow line, extrapolating the inner edge of the outer track using the black oval, and estimated the center from the intersection of the red lines.
The distance from the inner edge of the outer track to the center is 241 pixels; the gauge of the track is 42 pixels. 241/42*7 = 40 1/6' = 40'2" or just under 12.25m.
Of course, even if my number is approximately correct, this doesn't end up being quite so bad if we assume that this turn is pushing the design to the edge of the technology's capabilities, and most turns have radii significantly greater than this one.
I knew that I could count on you! Yikes, though... even if I turned the bogies sixty degrees, I still wouldn't be able to have even eleven meters between them. Hm... Well, given the short lengths of Equestria's observed rolling stock, there wouldn't be an incentive there to make larger curves... but on the other hoof, there is still the speed argument. That's the line up to Canterlot, yes? If so, we could probably get away with arguing that that's a special case (...Unless this is the usual method Equestria's permanent way engineers use to conquer high grades, but longer routes would probably want to do without the speed reduction...).

Yes, that is the Canterlot-Ponyville line. And you're right about the length issue; I was originally going to bring up the problem of getting rigid cars to make the turn, before I saw that there's only about 18' between the axles. Seems pretty inefficient if you want to work with mass freight, but perhaps they're fine with it since it seems they were starting from a primarily overland system, rather than a river-, canal-, and sea-based freight transit system that could have handled real volume.
Ah, good; we're likely fine, then. I'll assume that a: most curves are significantly larger than this and b: the few that aren't and haven't been entirely destroyed can be redesigned when the new network needs to expand into their area.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:58 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Well, I did it. Got Fallout 3 running, and it only took... well, many hours. More if you count the download and re-download from Steam. Now all I have to do is install mods, make my own personal versions of said mods, create compatibility patches, and then spend a few hours troubleshooting what went wrong with all that! (Hinds, if you want I can try to recount how I got my copy working - on a configuration that by all accounts online REALLY should not be able to run it - but in my experience with the game, it's almost always something completely different and random that you need to do to get it up and running)
Yeah, that seems to be what I've found. Did you have the thing where it crashes on the new game loading screen? That's the error that I've not been able to get past, so, if you didn't have that at all, I'm not sure that there's much point in me hearing at the moment how you did get it running. Congratulations, though!

Erumpet wrote:@Hinds: I'll admit, most of that I didn't understand. However, if I think I'm getting the gist of it. So this train is being built by the NCR, after the gardens were activated and society has started to reform. I guess my question is what infrastructure? As far as I am aware, trains in Equestria didn't traditionally use a liquid fuel, and neither did cars. Trains burned coal to presumably power steam engines, and carriages were pulled by ponies. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a significant oil or petroleum base in equestria. I thought it was all coal based. To be fair, I've only read FOE through once, so I am not the best informed on this universe. To be honest, I don't know why the NCR or whoever else wouldn't just continue using coal instead of any liquid fuel source because as somepony said, there is coal in Equestria, just not a lot of it.
(Like I said, there's a lot of headcanon in this.) No, this locomotive is being built in Masozi (formerly San Franciscolt) for the Elusive Company, which owns NETC (I assume that I can leave the "the" off just as NV sometimes refers to the NCR as just "NCR"). Cic is provided by the refineries in Masozi, which use petroleum from the Zebra drillship (just because Equestria went straight from coal to electricity/magic...) in Elusive City. The locomotive's AI is provided by Elusive, the Arcan (RCaNN: Radio Communication and Navigation Network, the EA's, well, radio communication and navigation network of beacons/relays, probably the most notable ones being those suspended beneath balloons around twenty-two klicks above sea level) connection is part of the Elusive Alliance in general, and I wouldn't be surprised if much of the design work was done in Profectum. The NETC Police are probably all ponies for PR reasons (and because using Miliozi would affect differently the power balances within the Alliance, but the PR thing is both accurate and a good excuse), but most of them are likely from the Principality of Gibhalter. Station personnel I'm not sure about (though each station would likely have at least one robot for communication purposes), though, and while tracklaying teams have NETC personnel in charge, they might be local labor.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:04 pm

By the way, does anyone know of any good ASR (another bit of my headcanon: the NCR's calendar marks years as "ASR" or "BSR", with the unmarked year 0 (~211 Luna) being the one in which the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows takes place) fics?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:14 pm

@Hinds: I'm sorry but that clarified almost nothing. I am clearly missing some vital piece of information here. Suffice it to say you have access to some information which indicates there are zebra drill ships which ponies can use. Maybe it's the headcanon, maybe I haven't read enough FOE spin offs, or maybe I really am just missing something from FOE, but I didn't know about any of the organizations you mentioned except for the NCR. Also I don't know what ASR or BSR is so I can't help you there either. I think I will just shut up now and let the big ponies talk, because I am clearly not knowledgable enough about FOE yet to participate in these conversations.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:23 pm

Erumpet wrote:@Hinds: I'm sorry but that clarified almost nothing. I am clearly missing some vital piece of information here. Suffice it to say you have access to some information which indicates there are zebra drill ships which ponies can use. Maybe it's the headcanon, maybe I haven't read enough FOE spin offs, or maybe I really am just missing something from FOE, but I didn't know about any of the organizations you mentioned except for the NCR. Also I don't know what ASR or BSR is so I can't help you there either. I think I will just shut up now and let the big ponies talk, because I am clearly not knowledgable enough about FOE yet to participate in these conversations.
No no! I apologize; I seem to have given you an incorrect impression. If you only recognize the NCR from that, that's because the rest is, as far as I know, just my personal headcanon.

edit: Oh, I did think that ASR and BSR would be clear from what I said, though. To clarify: ASR and BSR are the NCR's equivalent of CE and BCE. Year 0 is defined as the year in which Fallout Equestria, and thus the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows, took place; years before that are BSR (the apocalypse would be in approximately 200 BSR, for example), and years after that are ASR (the FoE Afterwords would be in 10 ASR).
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Erumpet on Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:31 pm

@Hinds: ok, that makes me feel better. And in retrospect, you did very clearly define ASR and BSR, I was just so dazzled I didn't pick up on it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:06 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:

Erumpet wrote:@Last: Mare
@Hinds: I like the big picture, I don't know of the others were big as well, I can't click on links because I'm on my phone. As for a diesel electric engine, why not make it an ethanol/methanol locomotive? Wouldn't that be more in line with the Whiskey Queen's style?
An alcohol-fueled probably steam locomotive would make sense for a lower tech level group without access to petroleum refining or the old Zebra pre-petroleum alchemical techniques for producing cic (diesel fuel; pronounced "keek"), but the diesel electric design here is more efficient while the fuel itself is more readily available to the operators in sufficient quantities than alcohol is. This doesn't really have anything do to with Queen Whiskey (I assume; PH isn't over yet, though, so I can't be entirely sure that something won't come up).

Yeah, and if you were going for a biological rather than mineral fuel source at their technology level, I'd point you to biodiesel before ethanol, anyway.
Hm... I'd disagree there. Biodiesel is still a significantly higher tech level than an alcohol-fueled steam engine. In addition to alcohol being easier to produce (find something, anything, that can ferment and set up a still, and don't even worry too much about separating the different kinds of alcohol if you're just going to burn it rather than drink it), a diesel engine requires better materials, manufacturing tolerances, design tolerances, etc. Expand that to a diesel electric drive system for a locomotive, and you add requirements for generator design and construction, motor design and construction, electricity handling gear, etc. Ponies, as far as we know, never really got into internal combustion engines at all, so even the Steel Rangers or Enclave remnants would probably have to develop/redevelop tech or rely on old stolen Zebra technology. Equestria has built plenty of steam locomotives of its own, though; the Steel Rangers probably have plans on file somewhere, the factory(ries?) might still be standing in Fillydelphia, and there's even at least one, probably more, locomotive still in modified use. In short, it would be, I think, far easier for the NCR to set up an alcohol fuel infrastructure and design and build alcohol-fueled steam locomotives than it would be for them to create a biodiesel fuel infrastructure and design and build diesel-electric locomotives.

Sorry, I was actually directing my comment at Erumpet, and meant that I thought biodiesel-fueled diesel electric would make more sense, for powering a train, than alcohol-fueled ICE/diesel, and was referring to wartime tech levels, not post-apocalyptic. Though I suppose, on further reflection, an alcohol-fueled turbine might work nicely as well.
I'm with you on the desirability of steam for low-tech options; I just thought that we were still on diesel-electric level tech.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Kattlarv on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:16 pm

@Robo: Your wall of text skill humbles me xP

@Cao: (Ponies) Well, it is canon they have to eat and do number one at least xP

@O.Hinds (Picture thing) I still have no idea what that is xD
The second pair of pictures I can kinda get though.

@Sindri: (maternal rage) Well, I guess it could be open to both. But if going biologically, and from what I know, mothers are prone to be more aggressive/defensive of their offspring. Granted, depends on the animal though, in some the male is there as well.
(survival) It wouldn't be all bonuses, a character gets some hefty penalties to be at low hp to start with. The "rush to safety" panic would likely give huge penalties to any rational thinking or anything but self preservation (unless countered by above), but bonus to trying to flee or make a last stand. Could be a perk though.

@Last: Looks androgynous as said. Leaning towards female if using the cartoon eyelash logic.
(Cadance) Because wings are pretty?

@Swicked: (Cadance) Overall, they got a "We'll buy xxx Celestia toys from you. But if you however make it pink, we'll buy xxxx." so they were more or less "forced" to enforce the gender stereotype.

@EP: (toys) Guys, guys... keep in mind the script is done MONTHS before they are aired. Dash toy released with a pet tank could have been from that. "Oh, in 14 episodes, Dash will be shown getting her pet turtle. Give her a pet turtle in that toyset... meh, just release it now, cba to wait." that, or it was done for the lulz and to be contradictive. I have a Dash toy with a duck though... so eh.

(Trains) In the MMMM episode, they are shown shovelling coal.

(Random shits and giggles) I'm currently making a Centaur in D&D. And I noticed how totally okay it is to wield a lance and have trample... and a rhino's hide.

@Ice: (pony genetics) From what Lauren said at least, the 3 races can mix, and colour doesn't seem to be a very "determined" factor.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:21 pm

Kattlarv wrote:@Ice: (pony genetics) From what Lauren said at least, the 3 races can mix, and colour doesn't seem to be a very "determined" factor.

I was mostly concerned with the unicorn/pegasus/earth pony phenotypes and their expression. There has of course been some thought put into this by the community at large, but not much of a definite base from within the confines of the show to work off of.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:27 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:

Erumpet wrote:@Last: Mare
@Hinds: I like the big picture, I don't know of the others were big as well, I can't click on links because I'm on my phone. As for a diesel electric engine, why not make it an ethanol/methanol locomotive? Wouldn't that be more in line with the Whiskey Queen's style?
An alcohol-fueled probably steam locomotive would make sense for a lower tech level group without access to petroleum refining or the old Zebra pre-petroleum alchemical techniques for producing cic (diesel fuel; pronounced "keek"), but the diesel electric design here is more efficient while the fuel itself is more readily available to the operators in sufficient quantities than alcohol is. This doesn't really have anything do to with Queen Whiskey (I assume; PH isn't over yet, though, so I can't be entirely sure that something won't come up).

Yeah, and if you were going for a biological rather than mineral fuel source at their technology level, I'd point you to biodiesel before ethanol, anyway.
Hm... I'd disagree there. Biodiesel is still a significantly higher tech level than an alcohol-fueled steam engine. In addition to alcohol being easier to produce (find something, anything, that can ferment and set up a still, and don't even worry too much about separating the different kinds of alcohol if you're just going to burn it rather than drink it), a diesel engine requires better materials, manufacturing tolerances, design tolerances, etc. Expand that to a diesel electric drive system for a locomotive, and you add requirements for generator design and construction, motor design and construction, electricity handling gear, etc. Ponies, as far as we know, never really got into internal combustion engines at all, so even the Steel Rangers or Enclave remnants would probably have to develop/redevelop tech or rely on old stolen Zebra technology. Equestria has built plenty of steam locomotives of its own, though; the Steel Rangers probably have plans on file somewhere, the factory(ries?) might still be standing in Fillydelphia, and there's even at least one, probably more, locomotive still in modified use. In short, it would be, I think, far easier for the NCR to set up an alcohol fuel infrastructure and design and build alcohol-fueled steam locomotives than it would be for them to create a biodiesel fuel infrastructure and design and build diesel-electric locomotives.

Sorry, I was actually directing my comment at Erumpet, and meant that I thought biodiesel-fueled diesel electric would make more sense, for powering a train, than alcohol-fueled ICE/diesel, and was referring to wartime tech levels, not post-apocalyptic. Though I suppose, on further reflection, an alcohol-fueled turbine might work nicely as well.
I'm with you on the desirability of steam for low-tech options; I just thought that we were still on diesel-electric level tech.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ah, it's quite fine. Yeah, without petroleum but with diesel engines, biodiesel would make more sense than alcohol. That's actually what I have the Zebras starting out with (or diesel produced from coal; I'm not sure which they'd find easier) before discovering and developing petroleum and petroleum-based fuels.
(As I've commented before, my conception of wartime Zebra civilization is pretty dieselpunk. Literally.)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:35 pm

Oh, by the way, I think that I'll use a Janney coupler for its load capacity and potential political reasons precluding the use of some fully automatic coupler design. That sound good?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:49 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Well, I did it. Got Fallout 3 running, and it only took... well, many hours. More if you count the download and re-download from Steam. Now all I have to do is install mods, make my own personal versions of said mods, create compatibility patches, and then spend a few hours troubleshooting what went wrong with all that! (Hinds, if you want I can try to recount how I got my copy working - on a configuration that by all accounts online REALLY should not be able to run it - but in my experience with the game, it's almost always something completely different and random that you need to do to get it up and running)
Yeah, that seems to be what I've found. Did you have the thing where it crashes on the new game loading screen? That's the error that I've not been able to get past, so, if you didn't have that at all, I'm not sure that there's much point in me hearing at the moment how you did get it running. Congratulations, though!
Actually, that's the exact bug that I ended up with this time 'round. Let's see...

-First off, I'm running a Windows 7 x64 dual core laptop with one of those integrated Intel graphics things (aka worthless shite). From what I've read, any one of those things could be enough to break Fallout 3, so I'm working off a wide array of fixes and am not entirely sure which ended up actually allowing me to start a new game.

-Right, so I'm using the Steam GOTY version. It's a nice version, overall, and works with FOSE (I'm pretty sure), but makes reinstalling hellish 'cos you've got to redownload everything.

-First thing I did was to make sure that Steam was running in Administrator mode, and that Fallout3.exe was running in compatibility mode for Windows XP (Service Pack 3), being run as an Administrator, and I checked off the boxes for Disable Visual Themes, Disable Desktop Composition, and Disable Display Scaling on High DPI Settings. I have no clue what those last three did, but somewhere on the internet I was told that it might help. I'm currently experimenting to see which, if any, of these things can be un-checked without breaking the game.

-Second, I went Control Panel->Programs and Features->Turn Windows Features On or Off->Expanded Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5.1->Checked off all the boxes underneath it. Again, not sure if this helped - it certainly wasn't the ONLY thing wrong, if it was wrong at all.

-Next, I put the game on the lowest possible settings (selected Low in the launcher, then went into advanced and set the draw distances even further down) AND ran it in Windowed mode. Notably, this did not help ME, but has helped other people. I have now got everything set to medium-ish (actor draw distance is turned up for gameplay, textures are reduced and HDR and shadows are disabled) and fullscreen without issues. (Also, if you've got a dualscreen setup, only use one screen - apparently this can be an issue)

-Lastly (and this is what I THINK helped the most), I followed the instructions in this video. Frankly, I'm not sure what the d3d9.dll file does, but I know that Fallout 3 now thinks I've got an nVidia display card for some reason. =P The intro video stuff may have helped, too. Can't be sure.

-Another thing to note is that some people claimed that setting Fallout3.exe's affinity to only one processor (via Task Manager->Show Processes from All Users (in order to gain admin privileges)->Right click on Fallout3.exe in the processes menu->Set affinity to only one CPU) would help. I found it unnecessary and unhelpful, but you might have different luck. Other things are to of course make sure that you've got the latest versions of your drivers for basically everything and to make sure you've got the latest DirectX stuff.

Overall, I can at least say that Bethesda had better programmers than Ubisoft. I had to do some passingly sketchy stuff to use Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood (open up game files using WinRAR and replacing all the references to fonts with "Arial," because they apparently relied on an old Windows font that was removed between Vista and 7 or something... total BS and I couldn't find anyone else online who'd fixed the game my way). Anyway, good luck! Not sure if any of this will help, but I hope it does!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Sindri on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:03 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
Kattlarv wrote:@Ice: (pony genetics) From what Lauren said at least, the 3 races can mix, and colour doesn't seem to be a very "determined" factor.

I was mostly concerned with the unicorn/pegasus/earth pony phenotypes and their expression. There has of course been some thought put into this by the community at large, but not much of a definite base from within the confines of the show to work off of.
See, for the pony types to interbreed and still end up as distinctive types instead of all blurring together, there needs to be a single gene (or rather pair of genes) which determines whether the foal will be unicorn, pegasus, or earth pony. However, a wing or a horn is a complex structure; you can't code for constructing a whole organ with a couple simple genes. What you can do, and what's been seen in similar situations all over real-world biology, is put a basic on/off switch in a single gene (or a pair of them to allow for all three types), which serves to determine whether the many, many lines of code detailing how to grow wings (or a horn or whatever mechanisms allow for earth pony magic) will be activated, or remain hidden in the unused DNA until the next generation. Every pegasus carries the full code to grow up as a unicorn or an earth pony waiting silently in their nuclei alongside the full code to grow up as a pegasus, which is actively producing the appropriate structures to allow for flight and such. This means that, given the right pedigree and a little luck, an earth pony can give birth to a pegasus or a unicorn, or both as we saw with the Cakes. It also means that with a relatively simple and common mutation, say one instance in 100,000 or 10,000,000 births, that pair of simple genetic on/off switches might not work right. You might get a unicorn with some traits displayed from their pegasus code, or an earth pony with a nubby little horn.


In my mind, until evidence to the contrary or a more likely theory is presented, Cadence is a unicorn with partial display of pegasus genes. She can't muster up the magic to fly or tweak gravity or whatever it is pegasi do, or probably even to manipulate clouds, but her wings give enough lift to extend a jump or glide as we saw during her escape from the tunnels, she retains all her power as a unicorn, and her resemblance to the Princesses probably gathers her admiration or even reverence.

However, true Alicorns are something beyond this simple genetic system, possibly a much rarer and more pervasive mutation but more likely something truly divine, giving them the raw power to manipulate with a thought what would take dozens or hundreds of unicorns straining in unison, functional immortality or at least longevity measured in millennia, and (according to Word of Faust) full display of all features from all three pony types.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:49 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Well, I did it. Got Fallout 3 running, and it only took... well, many hours. More if you count the download and re-download from Steam. Now all I have to do is install mods, make my own personal versions of said mods, create compatibility patches, and then spend a few hours troubleshooting what went wrong with all that! (Hinds, if you want I can try to recount how I got my copy working - on a configuration that by all accounts online REALLY should not be able to run it - but in my experience with the game, it's almost always something completely different and random that you need to do to get it up and running)
Yeah, that seems to be what I've found. Did you have the thing where it crashes on the new game loading screen? That's the error that I've not been able to get past, so, if you didn't have that at all, I'm not sure that there's much point in me hearing at the moment how you did get it running. Congratulations, though!
Actually, that's the exact bug that I ended up with this time 'round. Let's see...

-First off, I'm running a Windows 7 x64 dual core laptop with one of those integrated Intel graphics things (aka worthless shite). From what I've read, any one of those things could be enough to break Fallout 3, so I'm working off a wide array of fixes and am not entirely sure which ended up actually allowing me to start a new game.

-Right, so I'm using the Steam GOTY version. It's a nice version, overall, and works with FOSE (I'm pretty sure), but makes reinstalling hellish 'cos you've got to redownload everything.

-First thing I did was to make sure that Steam was running in Administrator mode, and that Fallout3.exe was running in compatibility mode for Windows XP (Service Pack 3), being run as an Administrator, and I checked off the boxes for Disable Visual Themes, Disable Desktop Composition, and Disable Display Scaling on High DPI Settings. I have no clue what those last three did, but somewhere on the internet I was told that it might help. I'm currently experimenting to see which, if any, of these things can be un-checked without breaking the game.

-Second, I went Control Panel->Programs and Features->Turn Windows Features On or Off->Expanded Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5.1->Checked off all the boxes underneath it. Again, not sure if this helped - it certainly wasn't the ONLY thing wrong, if it was wrong at all.

-Next, I put the game on the lowest possible settings (selected Low in the launcher, then went into advanced and set the draw distances even further down) AND ran it in Windowed mode. Notably, this did not help ME, but has helped other people. I have now got everything set to medium-ish (actor draw distance is turned up for gameplay, textures are reduced and HDR and shadows are disabled) and fullscreen without issues. (Also, if you've got a dualscreen setup, only use one screen - apparently this can be an issue)

-Lastly (and this is what I THINK helped the most), I followed the instructions in this video. Frankly, I'm not sure what the d3d9.dll file does, but I know that Fallout 3 now thinks I've got an nVidia display card for some reason. =P The intro video stuff may have helped, too. Can't be sure.

-Another thing to note is that some people claimed that setting Fallout3.exe's affinity to only one processor (via Task Manager->Show Processes from All Users (in order to gain admin privileges)->Right click on Fallout3.exe in the processes menu->Set affinity to only one CPU) would help. I found it unnecessary and unhelpful, but you might have different luck. Other things are to of course make sure that you've got the latest versions of your drivers for basically everything and to make sure you've got the latest DirectX stuff.

Overall, I can at least say that Bethesda had better programmers than Ubisoft. I had to do some passingly sketchy stuff to use Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood (open up game files using WinRAR and replacing all the references to fonts with "Arial," because they apparently relied on an old Windows font that was removed between Vista and 7 or something... total BS and I couldn't find anyone else online who'd fixed the game my way). Anyway, good luck! Not sure if any of this will help, but I hope it does!
Well, I've already got d3d9.dll in place (I'm on an Intel HD Graphics 3000), and I think that it's working; I've no idea how to check, though. As for the rest of your advice, though, sorry; I'm trying to run a non-Steam version on Snow Leopard and don't know if the wrapper I'm using even could follow your Windows advice.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Stringtheory on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:19 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Well, I did it. Got Fallout 3 running, and it only took... well, many hours. More if you count the download and re-download from Steam. Now all I have to do is install mods, make my own personal versions of said mods, create compatibility patches, and then spend a few hours troubleshooting what went wrong with all that! (Hinds, if you want I can try to recount how I got my copy working - on a configuration that by all accounts online REALLY should not be able to run it - but in my experience with the game, it's almost always something completely different and random that you need to do to get it up and running)
Yeah, that seems to be what I've found. Did you have the thing where it crashes on the new game loading screen? That's the error that I've not been able to get past, so, if you didn't have that at all, I'm not sure that there's much point in me hearing at the moment how you did get it running. Congratulations, though!
*snip*
Well, I've already got d3d9.dll in place (I'm on an Intel HD Graphics 3000), and I think that it's working; I've no idea how to check, though. As for the rest of your advice, though, sorry; I'm trying to run a non-Steam version on Snow Leopard and don't know if the wrapper I'm using even could follow your Windows advice.
sigh...it's this discussion again
anyway here's my story:
I'm running a dual core 2.7Ghz i7 macbook pro with a intel hd 3000 "graphics card" bootcamped into windows 7
I had the crash on new game problem until I used the d3d9.dll fix, which allowed it to run for around 5 or so minutes before freezing because the intel hd 3000 can't handle the advanced shaders which fallout 3 requires
I bet if I used all of Cobalt's fixes I could get it to run smoothly, but I really don't care that much, so I'm simply waiting until I have access to a better computer before I try running fallout 3 again
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