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[Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Katarn on Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:16 am

@Sicked
It's still optional you just found the place where you can use them. That's it.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:28 am

Katarn wrote:@Sicked
It's still optional you just found the place where you can use them. That's it.
...really I haven't. You'd think the temple would be more obvious. Or that I could have scouts find it and mark it on my map.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Katarn on Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:06 pm

Go through mine, that's right under waterfall (near one of your camps) and take to the left in mine. You will know if you took the right way, if upon exit from mine you'll find observer skull. Take to the left on ridge, below you'll find enemy's camp..big doors to the left is temple.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Valikdu on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:37 pm

I am not a particularly good finder;
No, it's just that the map is really convoluted. I've spent like 4 hours trying to find everything on that map, then took a break from DA:I (still on the break).

The shards aren't a real plot point, I think. They're just used to unlock rooms in that temple, and you find loot in each room. Maybe there's a ton of epix in the last room (can't really imagine myself reaching that...)
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Katarn on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:44 pm

Same here. Also each room gives you bonus resist to whatever room you unlock. IIRC it's spirit, fire and frost only.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Valikdu on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:21 pm

Just noticed the email. So, Shadowrun: Hong Kong has reached its goal of...

ONE MILLION DOLLARS

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Katarn on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:20 pm


Face: So let me get this straight. I either have to negotiate a contract with the street gang in order to leave my own apartment, or declare a small block war to go to work every morning?

GM: Welcome to Shadowrun

I hope it would be awesome...even more awesome, than Dragonfall.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:29 am

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:08 am

Of course, that sort of abuse and manipulation isn't one-way by any measure. There's a guy in my unit whose (now ex-)wife called our CO, 1SG and his PSG and PL to try to get the guy arrested; claiming that he raped and beat her (this occurred during the separation period, even as she tried to milk everything he owned out of him). I was also on ACP guard a few weeks back and subsequently listening to the MP net as they received a call of a man having been beaten by his wife (and had hidden in the bathroom before eventually running out because he knew how very, very bad things would get legally if he retaliated). Another MP mentioned a time in Korea where she saw a woman who'd broken several facial bones and knocked out most of her husband's teeth with a wrench because he'd apparently gotten her a Valentine's Day gift not to her liking.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:30 am

Of course.

This was simply about the things that were said earlier about how its "just a book".

Not wanting to start a discussion. Just adding a piece to the file.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Valikdu on Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:45 am

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:25 am

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Of course.

This was simply about the things that were said earlier about how its "just a book".

Not wanting to start a discussion. Just adding a piece to the file.

It's just a book
the headline wrote:As fifty shades of grey hits the cinemas
sounds like a magazine trying to sell a few more copies by demonizing a popular piece of media. Sounds very familiar. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the cover story.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:45 am

Does this have anything to do with Fifty shades of grey?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/i-track-my-boyfriends-movement-because-i-want-to-trust-him-more-not-less-9994583.html#

Assuming this is true I'm not gonna say "Oh poor thing media has influenced you" or "Damn you Fifty shades of Grey". I'm gonna say this person needs therapy to help them get over their posessive/obsessive nature.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:02 pm

Last wrote:Assuming this is true I'm not gonna say "Oh poor thing media has influenced you" or "Damn you Fifty shades of Grey". I'm gonna say this person needs therapy to help them get over their posessive/obsessive nature.
The bulk of today's scientific community grew up with science fiction, particularly Star Trek; dreaming about what technology and science could accomplish.

Starship Troopers is required reading for officers in a few branches of the US military. 

The Lord of the Rings led to an increased interest in medieval history and mythology and the subsequent discovery of a lot of aspects of middle-age culture that were previously unknown.

Books, even fictional ones, have power. Moreso than any other media. More than television or movies, more than video games. By their very nature, they provoke thought. While, by-and-large, their overall effect is generally minimal, there will always be those who take the words they read to heart, for better or for worse.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:15 pm

@Frost

There's a major difference between inspiring someone and effecting their behavior. This to me seems to be shitbirds who don't want to admit they're shitbirds and instead want to scape goat a book.

It's on the level of someone going on a rampage and blaming GTA after the fact or some album they heard.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:29 pm

Last wrote:There's a major difference between inspiring someone and effecting their behavior.
By curiosity, how would you define it?
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:37 pm

Last wrote:It's on the level of someone going on a rampage and blaming GTA after the fact or some album they heard.
Investing thought and concentration into a particular work (near-inevitable with books as opposed to other forms of media, which can be more passive in how the consumer partakes in them) and subsequently adopting a bit of its mindset; with a rather minor influence in their own mindset and thought process and eventually behavior? That's on the same level as a spontaneous crime or violent act and blaming it on a less mentally-engaging form of media?

As Harm mentioned, you also need to specify the difference between inspiration and influence; as most would agree they're largely one and the same.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:47 pm

Reference:

Inspiration:
1. an inspiring or animating action or influence. 
2. something inspired, as an idea. 
3. a result of inspired activity.
4. a thing or person that inspires.
Influence:
noun
1. the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc., of others 
2. the action or process of producing effects on the actions, behavior,opinions, etc., of another or others.
3. a person or thing that exerts influence:He is an influence for the good.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:02 pm

Frost wrote:
Last wrote:It's on the level of someone going on a rampage and blaming GTA after the fact or some album they heard.
Investing thought and concentration into a particular work (near-inevitable with books as opposed to other forms of media, which can be more passive in how the consumer partakes in them) and subsequently adopting a bit of its mindset; with a rather minor influence in their own mindset and thought process and eventually behavior? That's on the same level as a spontaneous crime or violent act and blaming it on a less mentally-engaging form of media?

As Harm mentioned, you also need to specify the difference between inspiration and influence; as most would agree they're largely one and the same.

You know that's not what I was saying. If someone is claiming that becoming posessive of their partner, tracking them and demanding their passwords and usernames was the result of FSoG (which is to best of my knowledge what we're talking about. The link Harmony posted) that is the same the exact same as going on a rampage and blaming GTA. It's the same if news outlets make that claim.

And I thought about what I said about inspiration. And I concede, I could not think of a way to explain it in anyway that made sense. Though I still think there is a massive difference between someone seeing science fiction stuff on TV, thinking it's neat and going into that field versus seeing a man being gun downed on TV and enacting in that in real life. One that goes way beyond morality, one of these is much more vague to start.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:24 pm

Yo, Last, can I ask you something? I'm curious to hear your opinion:

Do you think Culture has an impact on Society?
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Tytan on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:47 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Yo, Last, can I ask you something? I'm curious to hear your opinion:

Do you think Culture has an impact on Society?
That's like asking if bread has an impact on sandwiches.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:56 pm

Not in the direct "Woman/Men are reading about this material. They're gonna think that abusing/being abused by your partner is okay" manner that you or these articles are proposing. No. Absolutely not.

Especially, especially not when referring to this specific piece of culture.

But to skip to the chase Harmony what specifically is it that you're wanting to compare FSoG to?

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:07 pm

Last wrote:Not in the direct "Woman/Men are reading about this material. They're gonna think that abusing/being abused by your partner is okay" manner that you or these articles are proposing. No. Absolutely not.

Especially, especially not when referring to this specific piece of culture.

But to skip to the chase Harmony what specifically is it that you're wanting to compare FSoG to?
So your plan here as far as a debate or conversation goes is to basically just go "Nu-uh" to any statement with given examples and often sources and try to shift burden of proof onto the other party? 

You sure you've never run for office?
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Tytan on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:07 pm

Elaborating.:
Culture and society are such interwoven aspects of humanity that's it's hard to define where one begins and the other ends.

I think the point Last was trying to make is that while media can have an effect on people (educate them, change their opinions, etc.) there must be something inherently wrong with someone that consumes a piece of media (be it movie, videogame, or book) and then acts on it in such a way that it actively conflicts with the norms and mores of their society.

Example: Someone could watch 'Supersize Me' and decide they'll never eat fast food again.

This is culturally acceptable in America, and in some cases encouraged. The average person hasn't been conditioned by their culture and society to believe this to be wrong.

Someone else could read 'Mein Kampf' then go murder an entire camp of gypsy.

There is no way to interpret this as not being wrong (unless their life was actively threatened), and I don't think you'll see your average adult arguing that point. If his decision to commit the crime was indeed affected by the book then there must be something wrong with him that skews his perception of right and wrong.

I think it's generally accepted that stalking someone is not an okay thing, and by and large you won't see someone approve of it. So if a dude gets the idea that it's okay to stalk someone from 'Fifty Shades' there just might be something wrong upstairs and he might wanna consider having a psychiatric evaluation.

In any case I don't think a trashy P.O.S. smut is gonna suddenly cause a cultural revolution.


Last edited by Tytan on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:08 pm

Big fuckin' wall of text:
If we're going to be far, far more condescending (and totalitarian) than the American public would like, you could argue that fiction which depicts situations that go against social standards are appropriate only for people who understand those standards (both why they exist and the potential problems with them), similar to how we don't let children play Grand Theft Auto because their minds aren't necessarily developed enough to separate fantasy and reality, or to understand what the game's about. If we accept that some children are cleverer than some adults, then maybe we should make like Australia and ban the sale of American Psycho, with the American meritocratic twist that if you can prove you're clever enough to not engage in cannibalism, urine-drinking, and other standard yuppie practices after reading it, you get to buy a copy. Which sounds batshit, actually, maybe even more so than Australia's.

I dunno, let's try a thought-experiment. Is a person in an abusive relationship responsible for what happens to them because they're ignorant? No, we don't do that (this is our assumption - maybe it's got flaws, but you'll get harped at if you question it, so it's the next best thing to true: unassailable). Is Fitty Shades responsible for their ignorance? Maybe it affirms their ignorance, but I'd say >99% of people who read it had previous exposure to the notion of romantic relationships, so it's hard to say it's solely responsible for them having a warped view on that subject. In any case, if their ignorance is not to blame, then surely the thing contributing to their ignorance cannot be to blame for the abuse.

Now, let's revisit the unassailable assumption a bit. There's an obvious issue with our conclusion, it seems to me, which is that if you lie to someone, you may be at least partially responsible for what they do with that lie. Certainly if you manipulate someone to do something, you have responsibility for it. (Hoo boy, and here we see another problem with the ideal of free will.) (Also, there's an argument to be made that promotion of ignorance is bad in and of itself, though that's not really the argument we're looking at here, I think.) Ignoring whether or not this fucks up our initial assumption, let's apply it here. We can safely say that Fitty Shades was not trying to manipulate readers into forming abusive relationships. It was trying to be a Twilight fanfic, and that strained the author's abilities as it is. Was it lying? Depends on your definition, I guess, and whether or not you care about authorial intent. I don't think the author meant to mislead anyone; I wouldn't be at all surprised if she thinks she's written a lovely, passionate love story that makes people's inner goddesses flush etc. etc.. Hell, maybe she has, I haven't read the damn books, I'm going on hearsay and arguing about arguments. So, first question: are you lying when you say something untrue if you believe it to be true? Most people, who have "theory of mind" at least, would say no. The ability to recognize that other people have viewpoints, knowledge, and beliefs that differ from your own seems to differentiate between lies and errors. So: can a person who tells someone else something in error (ignoring whether or not FSoG was even intending to say anything about healthy relationships in the first place) be held responsible for what the second party does with the incorrect information? And if so, should we not instead be placing blame on where the first party received their incorrect information in the first place, as no idea is formed in a vacuum and Fifty Shades certainly was not an original work? It's not Fifty Shades' fault that it can't behave, society made it go astray. In seriousness, though, that seems to be the way that train of logic goes. If we're displacing blame for ignorance from the ignorant (which is not unreasonable), then why would we stop at the equally-ignorant book they read?

Now, let's remove authorial intent. Ironically enough, I think this still leads us to the same place: if the only meaning you can get from a book is what you create by reading it, then we still end up concluding that a person who gets "it's romantic for a partner to control every aspect of my life" from Fifty Shades had problems prior to reading it. Maybe the problem was that they emulate behaviors they see in books because they're isolated from the world, maybe the problem was that they were primed to accept abuse due to their messed-up parents' relationship. Doesn't matter to us here. We read Five Tens of Grey Hues and say, "Wow, that's a fucked up relationship and a poorly written book."

Ultimately, I think here's the thing: we're looking for where the buck should stop. Analogy: we hate the game, not the player, but we're having trouble figuring out who the DM (ha! Double entendre!) of this game is - which is to say, who's running this motherfucker? Who has the power to change it? We identify Fifty Shades as a cultural icon, and say, "Hey, it's got power, but it's doing fuckall to change things - what the heck?" Here's the thing, though, and here's where I'm going to go out on a limb and propose a way towards a solution instead of just fucking around with metaarguments and criticism: in what kind of fucked-up world do we want an ex-Twilight fanfic to pave the way towards a healthier understanding of relationships for people? Fsoggy is a symptom, not a cause, and it was never set up to be the cure. (How many clichés can I play with? Many; maybe even lots.) As is often the case, my answer is to create, find, and promote better alternatives. You can hold Frogsoggy up and say that it's the product of a diseased culture, or a culture so in need of opening itself up to sexual fantasy that it hops on the first shitty one promoted, or just an aberration - whatever. Doesn't matter. And you can dirtytalk the book's writing until its protagonist flushes (which admittedly would not take long, I understand). Saying the book itself is responsible for the actions of its readers, though, is misplaced blame.

In other news! There's a bird nest outside my window and the two little birds are clearing snow off it. :3

Also! As a nation, I am ashamed of us. We have been overstating the length of our national penis by ten inches. For shame, America.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:49 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:
Big fuckin' wall of text:
If we're going to be far, far more condescending (and totalitarian) than the American public would like, you could argue that fiction which depicts situations that go against social standards are appropriate only for people who understand those standards (both why they exist and the potential problems with them), similar to how we don't let children play Grand Theft Auto because their minds aren't necessarily developed enough to separate fantasy and reality, or to understand what the game's about. If we accept that some children are cleverer than some adults, then maybe we should make like Australia and ban the sale of American Psycho, with the American meritocratic twist that if you can prove you're clever enough to not engage in cannibalism, urine-drinking, and other standard yuppie practices after reading it, you get to buy a copy. Which sounds batshit, actually, maybe even more so than Australia's.

I dunno, let's try a thought-experiment. Is a person in an abusive relationship responsible for what happens to them because they're ignorant? No, we don't do that (this is our assumption - maybe it's got flaws, but you'll get harped at if you question it, so it's the next best thing to true: unassailable). Is Fitty Shades responsible for their ignorance? Maybe it affirms their ignorance, but I'd say >99% of people who read it had previous exposure to the notion of romantic relationships, so it's hard to say it's solely responsible for them having a warped view on that subject. In any case, if their ignorance is not to blame, then surely the thing contributing to their ignorance cannot be to blame for the abuse.

Now, let's revisit the unassailable assumption a bit. There's an obvious issue with our conclusion, it seems to me, which is that if you lie to someone, you may be at least partially responsible for what they do with that lie. Certainly if you manipulate someone to do something, you have responsibility for it. (Hoo boy, and here we see another problem with the ideal of free will.) (Also, there's an argument to be made that promotion of ignorance is bad in and of itself, though that's not really the argument we're looking at here, I think.) Ignoring whether or not this fucks up our initial assumption, let's apply it here. We can safely say that Fitty Shades was not trying to manipulate readers into forming abusive relationships. It was trying to be a Twilight fanfic, and that strained the author's abilities as it is. Was it lying? Depends on your definition, I guess, and whether or not you care about authorial intent. I don't think the author meant to mislead anyone; I wouldn't be at all surprised if she thinks she's written a lovely, passionate love story that makes people's inner goddesses flush etc. etc.. Hell, maybe she has, I haven't read the damn books, I'm going on hearsay and arguing about arguments. So, first question: are you lying when you say something untrue if you believe it to be true? Most people, who have "theory of mind" at least, would say no. The ability to recognize that other people have viewpoints, knowledge, and beliefs that differ from your own seems to differentiate between lies and errors. So: can a person who tells someone else something in error (ignoring whether or not FSoG was even intending to say anything about healthy relationships in the first place) be held responsible for what the second party does with the incorrect information? And if so, should we not instead be placing blame on where the first party received their incorrect information in the first place, as no idea is formed in a vacuum and Fifty Shades certainly was not an original work? It's not Fifty Shades' fault that it can't behave, society made it go astray. In seriousness, though, that seems to be the way that train of logic goes. If we're displacing blame for ignorance from the ignorant (which is not unreasonable), then why would we stop at the equally-ignorant book they read?

Now, let's remove authorial intent. Ironically enough, I think this still leads us to the same place: if the only meaning you can get from a book is what you create by reading it, then we still end up concluding that a person who gets "it's romantic for a partner to control every aspect of my life" from Fifty Shades had problems prior to reading it. Maybe the problem was that they emulate behaviors they see in books because they're isolated from the world, maybe the problem was that they were primed to accept abuse due to their messed-up parents' relationship. Doesn't matter to us here. We read Five Tens of Grey Hues and say, "Wow, that's a fucked up relationship and a poorly written book."

Ultimately, I think here's the thing: we're looking for where the buck should stop. Analogy: we hate the game, not the player, but we're having trouble figuring out who the DM (ha! Double entendre!) of this game is - which is to say, who's running this motherfucker? Who has the power to change it? We identify Fifty Shades as a cultural icon, and say, "Hey, it's got power, but it's doing fuckall to change things - what the heck?" Here's the thing, though, and here's where I'm going to go out on a limb and propose a way towards a solution instead of just fucking around with metaarguments and criticism: in what kind of fucked-up world do we want an ex-Twilight fanfic to pave the way towards a healthier understanding of relationships for people? Fsoggy is a symptom, not a cause, and it was never set up to be the cure. (How many clichés can I play with? Many; maybe even lots.) As is often the case, my answer is to create, find, and promote better alternatives. You can hold Frogsoggy up and say that it's the product of a diseased culture, or a culture so in need of opening itself up to sexual fantasy that it hops on the first shitty one promoted, or just an aberration - whatever. Doesn't matter. And you can dirtytalk the book's writing until its protagonist flushes (which admittedly would not take long, I understand). Saying the book itself is responsible for the actions of its readers, though, is misplaced blame.

In other news! There's a bird nest outside my window and the two little birds are clearing snow off it. :3

Also! As a nation, I am ashamed of us. We have been overstating the length of our national penis by ten inches. For shame, America.
If I may strike to the boss-guarded treasure that is your argument rather than negotiate the zombie/bandit-filled dungeon that is its context and lead-up--and this goes for both your and Ty's arguments:

You're right that ideas do not come from vacuum. Life informs Art--but Art, too, informs Life. Are any sane citizens going to start abusing women because they read Fifty Shades of the Greymarch any more than they're going to up and join the Klan after watching Birth of A Nation? Prolly not. Are that relationship, those interactions, those "romance" scenes, going to stick with the reader and become one of the many factors that influence every one of us? Absolutely. And the more they took the work to heart; the more it's going to effect them. They're not getting "duped" or affected "subconsciously" by it--it's something they see coming and (due to Society, as Cobalt alluded to) don't reject it outright even if it presents an extreme of current norms. And, through that, it (through long months and years) becomes normal and commonplace, even romantic and noble. 

That's not to say Fitty Shaydez is some nefarious plot and/or should be banned or censored. If you can enjoy shitty writing and the erotic fantasies of bored housewives, go right ahead. The main factor is that even a normal, healthy, mentally sound person has to take care how much they let a given idea take root--You'll forgive the invocation of Godwin's Law, I hope, as the Nazis make such excellent and clear-cut examples of so many sociopolitical points--but the notion of shipping Undesirables off to (to the masses) parts unknown didn't happen overnight. It was years of propaganda and smear campaigns that swayed the public mind enough for the Reich to have its way with their, uh, "foes"
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:11 pm

Frost wrote:
Last wrote:Not in the direct "Woman/Men are reading about this material. They're gonna think that abusing/being abused by your partner is okay" manner that you or these articles are proposing. No. Absolutely not.

Especially, especially not when referring to this specific piece of culture.

But to skip to the chase Harmony what specifically is it that you're wanting to compare FSoG to?
So your plan here as far as a debate or conversation goes is to basically just go "Nu-uh" to any statement with given examples and often sources and try to shift burden of proof onto the other party? 

You sure you've never run for office?

Burden of proof is on the accuser, in this situation Harmony is the accuser and Fifty Shades of Grey is the accused. It was never on me so I'm not shifting it.  What evidence have you given that FSoG (The thing we're discussing) does influence anyone into being in one of these relationships? So far it seems only a crappy cellphone image of a partial article. To which in response I linked an article of someone doing the exact same thing without any need of the book or the movie. I think we can all agree that person has an extremely posessive/obsessive personality and needs a therapist's help. I think you can agree that logic would follow through with someone who would do this because they'd say a book told them to.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:26 pm

My thesis, if you could call it that, is simply that succesful cultural products influence culture, and that culture in turn influences society; and thus that it is society's responsibility to acknowledge which part of its culture are """problematic""", in order to avoid it (society) be affected negatively.

In short, I am advocating:

1/ for people to be critical of the cultural products they consume
2/ for succesful cultural products to be critically analyzed for any """problematic""" element they may contain; such that people become aware of said elements.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:56 pm

@Frost
You've got the most important part of my post down, which is that creating new slang titles for the book is super entertaining. :P Seriously, though, I think we're pretty well on the same page. I think I was more talking about conditioning readers to accept abuse rather than promoting abuse itself, because the book's POV is whatsherface's, not not-Dorian Grey's, and the target audience also tends to be the abused rather than the abuser (though that's not to say less likely means irrelevant, just why I was focused in on that side of things).

To expand on my conclusion (and yours, I think) with some hypotheticals, I think that with the furor around whether or not Shifty Fades requires a moral panic, we (as in the nation, not the forums) may have missed a golden opportunity to actually talk about sex, fantasies, relationships, kinky stuff, and abuse. It's a shame that the book didn't create that conversation on its own - not necessarily a failing, since that would have been a very different book and it would have to have been written by a very different author - but I think it is a failing on our part that this opportunity was by and large missed in favor of bashing the book. Because that would have the potential to help sort out some of those Society things, and would defuse some of the bad stuff the book shows in a positive light while allowing the twenty trillion readers of it to have their transgressive-lite smutty fantasy novel. If Off-White Thru Dark-Slate is going to be somewhat of a zeitgeist for a while, might as well make gray while the sun shines.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:29 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:My thesis, if you could call it that, is simply that succesful cultural products influence culture, and that culture in turn influences society; and thus that it is society's responsibility to acknowledge which part of its culture are """problematic""", in order to avoid it (society) be affected negatively.

In short, I am advocating:

1/ for people to be critical of the cultural products they consume
2/ for succesful cultural products to be critically analyzed for any """problematic""" element they may contain; such that people become aware of said elements.

You mean a ratings system. Movies and Games already have that, music kinda does to if you count the parental advisory sticker some CDs have. Pratically I think you're saying that books get a ratings system (I've never seen one with a rating sticker slapped on it) and that extra factors be added onto games and movies? Is that about right?

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

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