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[Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:59 pm

Scienza wrote:
swicked wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@swicked re: Kill La Kill
The "fan service" only goes up, but is effectively explained, hung with lampshades, and also may be central to the show's feminist-punk themes. You mostly stop noticing it after a few episodes except when it's done for a reason, like the constant visual joke that is the main character's homeroom teacher.
I just kinda like the main character and don't look forward to her being called a whore repeatedly every time she fights just because the only uniform she could find that would allow her to play on a relatively even playing field with these guys covers little but her shoulders and neckline.
Hopefully that cuts down, at least. Less threats of raping her, claims she wants it, etc. when all she wants know is who killed her dad.
Trust me, that starts to drop off the more and more ass Ryuko kicks. Also when other people also start getting naked.
Good, I just don't like that sort of thing.
I was also kinda hoping her outfit would get less revealing with time given it gained a thread after she destroyed the boxer's uniform.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Valikdu on Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:25 pm

Maybe I'll ask for Dragonfall art next time I make a commission. There's only like 2 pictures of each character (that aren't from the game title screen/art) on DA now.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:04 pm

That would be pretty nice. Glory needs some hugs.

(Note: I only a few hours into the campaign)
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Valikdu on Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:22 pm

Ah yes, "Glory". The one who... well, let's just say that she'd fit right into Horizons. We endorse these claims.

Btw, you're playing Director's Cut, right?
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:43 pm

Speaking of games with campaigns, I've just finished Republic Commando's.
Spoiler:
Well, I guess now I know why they gave Sev so much likability and so many lines
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:13 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:@swicked re: Kill La Kill
The "fan service" only goes up, but is effectively explained, hung with lampshades, and also may be central to the show's feminist-punk themes. You mostly stop noticing it after a few episodes except when it's done for a reason, like the constant visual joke that is the main character's homeroom teacher.

That's not how you spell misogynist. If Bayonetta taught me anything nudity and feminism don't go together, except when they do for unexplained reasons. It's a strange phenomenon.


Last edited by Last on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : This is meant to be a joke. Don't think KLK is misogynist. At all.)

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:44 pm

@Last
I would be willing to fight any SJW on Kill La Kill being a feminist work, based solely on the fact that a feminist viewing of it is so, so much more interesting than a pop feminist critique of it. (Feel free to read "pop feminist" as "goddamn lazy idiot") That's the way I was trained to do feminist analysis, dammit, and it's the right way to do it. Can't speak to Bayonetta, as I haven't played it and am bad at actiony-brawlery games and thus would not be ABLE to play it.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:00 pm

Of course I was only joking, I love KLK. Not sure that it's a feeminist work though, the only thing I could point out is the scene where Ryuko is ashamed of wearing Senketsu and she comes to the conclusion that she's wearing it for a purpose and has no need to be ashamed.

Maybe it's because the show is not preachy that it's message went over my head. In general I'm a moron after all.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:16 pm

Last wrote:In general I'm a moron after all.

I don't believe that.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:31 pm

I mean, I wasn't gonna say anything, but.....I really believed that.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:01 pm

I'm in agreement with Frost, I tend to type without thinking, be flat out wrong, or not explain myself in a way that makes it even begin to be clear what it is I'm trying to say. I'm an idiot through and through.

Thanks though Iron, you are very kind.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Ironmonger on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:13 pm

Last wrote:I'm in agreement with Frost, I tend to type without thinking, be flat out wrong, or not explain myself in a way that makes it even begin to be clear what it is I'm trying to say. I'm an idiot through and through.

Thanks though Iron, you are very kind.

All of those things are common, fixable, and happen to most of us from time to time. I know from personal experience, and don't let anyone tell you that you're stupid just because you make mistakes.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:24 pm

Yeah; what Iron said. I was just making an unfunny joke 'cause I'm an asshole like that.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:47 pm

@Last
Oh yeah, I know you weren't being serious, I'm just sayin' because I'm sure that line of thought's out there. As for the feminist themes, you do kinda have to dig a bit in some cases, but I think they're there.

Spoilered for Spoilers of KLK:

1. Anti-fashion industry. Main characters are shown trying to overthrow the control of the world-controlling clothing manufacturing industrial complex that literally is mind-controlling people and turning them into drones. 'Nuff said.
2. Female protagonist who is an extremely active agent in her world, powerful, learns to accept her own body, demands respect, refuses to be objectified, takes the world on her own terms. The show is ultimately about her empowerment.
2.5. Indeed, pretty much everyone with real power and agency in the show is female. Satsuki, Ragyo, even to an extent Mako. Although Ragyo is probably better read as inhuman, given the givens.
3. The most outwardly "feminine" character, Nui, is kind of complicated for this. A simple read says she's the avatar of the evils of the feminine (she's overtly sexual in a different way from the other characters shown before she takes the stage, she's pretty in pink, she's the master tailor, she makes delicate and demure movements) BUT KLK is actually more subtle than that. She IS a force to be reckoned with, and the show doesn't make the mistake of demonizing femininity IMO (nor, incidentally, does it make the mistake of demonizing sexuality, but that's kind of obvious) because the endgame has life fibers (fashion) and humans (punk rebelliousness) working together to save the world  - which I read as symbolizing the acceptance of the feminine into feminism. I'll get into that.

Okay, so the central conceit of the show initially is the ideal of power-over versus the ideal of power-with. This is a big thing in feminism, all about a big thing y'all may have heard of called the PATRIARCHY. Yes, that's a thing - a thing misused pretty much 24/7 these days, AFAICT, but a lot of it boils down to The Man, who is not necessarily even a man, holding down everyone underneath Him. Power-over. The alternative presented to this is power-with, cooperative, a much more democratic and egalitarian ideal than the hierarchical shenanigans. To bring us back to KLK: Satsuki has created a hierarchical world in which she is at the top, and all others must serve her. To advance, you must show that you have more power than someone else above you: take the Naturals Election for an obvious instance. In essence, Satsuki could be compared to the SJW - her ultimate goal is the takedown of the destructive world order, but her methods are the same as those of the order she aims to defeat. This is why she fails.

In eventual contrast, you have Ryuko, who initially plays the game with everyone else, but time and time again comes to the understanding that it's a mug's game. Look at how Satsuki wears her Kamui versus how Ryuko learns how to wear hers: life fiber override versus life fiber synchronization. Power-over versus power-with. The Nudist Beach organization also is shown to be incapable of defeating Ragyo because they go so far as to reject all clothing (and of course the power of life fibers) in their fight. They can be read as another version of extremist ideologies fighting against the system of power-over (which is synonymous with the patriarchy, among other things), I suppose, but I'm stumped on which. I could probably come up with something, but they're sort of tangential to the show and are tangential to the stuff I really want to get into.

Let's look at Ragyo. On the surface, it's hard to portray her as the face of the patriarchy. For one thing, she's a woman. Isn't a powerful woman kind of the antithesis of patriarchy? Isn't the fact that the whole goal of the show is the defeat of a woman in power kind of anti-feminist? Well, that's one way to read it, maybe. However, I've got the ultimate feminist trump card up my sleeve: phalluses. Or... phalli. I dunno. Point is, Ragyo's hair is two big pointy things. Okay, yeah, I'm kidding. And in a lot of ways, she doesn't quite fit. Her recruitment of Hououmaru IIRC featured her explicitly talking about destroying the world in which "men do terrible things and the weak are unable to fight back" or something like that. But this, to me, just echoes how Satsuki planned to take down Ragyo. Power-over returns. In defeating the patriarchy, Ragyo became it. She didn't kill it, she took it over. Just because it's now a matriarchy doesn't solve any of (proper) feminism's problems with it. Hell, daughters are still sacrificed to its reign, which was one of the main things early feminists took issue with - the trade in women as diplomatic bargaining chips. Remember all the marriage imagery and metaphors with Junketsu and Satsuki, and later Ryuko?

So, yeah, this started as a list, ended up with paragraphs. I'll admit that the show isn't a perfect masterpiece of feminism or anything, and that there are other readings that work, too. Anti-fascist sentiment runs deep in it, too, though I'd argue that (proper) feminism is also strongly anti-fascist. However, I think reading it as just a bunch of scantily-clad women fighting with flashing lights is too simple; and reading it as anti-feminist because "they're wearing skimpy clothing MALE GAZE/the bad guy is a girl MISOGYNY/the end fight is literally a penis (the ship) versus an ovum (life fiber ball) PATRIARCHY" is straight-up ignoring the show's actual plot and characters in favor of skin-deep assertions that do a disservice to the show, the critic, and the audience.

Man, I hope I didn't completely fuck that up. I'm slightly buzzed (coffee + wine = rapidly-metabolizing alcohol, maybe? Is that a thing?), I haven't proofread that at all, I didn't really have a plan besides "let's talk about some cool stuff KLK did," and it's been a while since I wrote about feminist theory. But yeah. The show isn't preaching feminism, but IMO its got oodles of feminism in it. And if we look at it from a postmodern-y "author is dead" perspective, it's even better!
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:51 am

Once again Iron, thank you. Again you are very kind. It's obvious why you are well liked.

@Frost Oh, sorry, didn't catch it.

@OAC ...Damn. You live up to your name. It's an interesting take on it, definitely. I agree with the conclusion I think you came to in that it's up to interpretation. Though to be absolutely honest I have a knee-jerk reaction when I see the words "Patriarchy" and "Feminism". Seeing as you went out of your way to distinguish between feminism and proper feminism I'm gonna guess I don't have to explain why. So obviously I'm biased against that interpretation.

Still, interesting take. Thanks for sharing I enjoyed reading it.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Valikdu on Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:15 am

Last wrote:If Bayonetta taught me anything nudity and feminism don't go together, except when they do for unexplained reasons.

Isn't it obvious? The answer is "IT'S OKAY WHEN I DO IT".

Like with this... well, let's call it a game provisionally:

Spoiler:

The creator (who is, apparently, the daughter of a millionaire with free access to unlimited funds) is fond of making sockpuppet accounts to badmouth herself and raise drama.

here, she forgot to re-log:

She also has (not) enough sense to describe this creation as "Heavy Rain Meets Mass Effect". Unfortunately, I've discovered this thing too late to downvote it on Greenlight.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:10 am

@Last
Glad you enjoyed the read. I think it was kind of a mess, but I stand by it. :P The zero-personal-accountability, soundbite-based style of pop feminist criticism and SJW antics have done some serious damage to feminism's rep., which is a shame because there's some super neat stuff we lose when even the informed public's reaction to seeing the word "feminism" is, "Oh, god, not this shit again." Analogy: privilege, patriarchy, and all that stuff are to feminism what quantum is to physics - terms that really mean something and have a great deal of theoretical heft, but are misused, overused, and generally abused by the public in such a way that most folks have given up trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. (That's my read, anyway)
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:09 pm

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:30 pm

Talking of sawing heads off, anyone watching Better Call Saul? It felt a LOT like Breaking Bad. And I loved Breaking Bad, don't get me wrong, I'm just not sure whether or not I want this show to have more of its own identity. Of course, we've only seen one episode so far, so who knows where it'll go? Loved all the VHS imagery, in any case. And the courtroom scene was hilarious.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:47 pm

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Tytan on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:57 pm

@Ava. I feel kinda bad for Gil now. That shit is awkward.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guarddogjr on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:15 am

So I found NSFW KLK cosplay set if anyone is interested.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:21 am

Guarddogjr wrote:So I found NSFW KLK cosplay set if anyone is interested.
Well, given what I've seen of the show so far, I'd figure most KLK cosplay sets are NSFW.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guarddogjr on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:23 am

Well this one more so. Nothing explicitly sexual in the photo shoot, but I'm pretty sure it'd break forum rules if I just posted it instead of pming it to those interested.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Scienza on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:28 am

Ooooh gimme.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guarddogjr on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:29 am

Scienza wrote:Ooooh gimme.
And sent
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Frost on Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:59 am

I finally got back to watching that show today after other shit distracted me. Think my computer's currently paused on the opening of her swordfight with SwordFace McWhat'sHisDick. The amount of skin shown is evoking a mostly neutral reaction--only exception is with SchoolQueen McAngryFace, and even then it balances out: the ass is real, but a scant few moments prior her tits were all a-floppin' about like fish on land and it was just hilarious.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by RoboRed on Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:13 am

Frost wrote:the ass is real
Applebloom

------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Stringtheory on Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:51 am

Frost wrote:I finally got back to watching that show today after other shit distracted me. Think my computer's currently paused on the opening of her swordfight with SwordFace McWhat'sHisDick.
Oh, you're not very far in then, don't worry, shit gets even more real later on. As is to be expected from ex-Gainax people.
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Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:45 am

@OAC Re: Privilege

Since you brough it up I took a small amount of time to look into it and came across a feminist wiki page. Before I talk about what I found I have no idea if this is a good source and I'll of course listen to what you think it's supposed to be or what it is supposed to be.

What I found was a racist/sexist wiki. Through out the page it continued to bring up only white males (I guess I'm to assume they are the only ones with this privilege) and then went on to imply that even if a white male were to accidentally have their penis mutilated through circumcision and then live the rest of their life as a homeless person that this fictional (Though to be honest this probably happened to someone. There's a shit ton of us.) male would still have privilege.

At it's core privilege seems to want to reduce anyone's accomplishments or failures down to the color of their skin or other aspects of their birth they have no control over.

That's the conclusion I came to on this page. Like I said maybe this page is simply a bad source and didn't explain what privilege it supposed to mean in a feminist sense properly.

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