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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:05 pm

swicked wrote:
SilentCarto wrote:In short, I can see no reason Amadi would deliberately use poor tactics, whatever his goal.
I figured there were technological restrictions.
You remember the starmetal broadcaster when Blackjack cracked the guy open?
A limited cue or range of instructions. Latency issues. The need and/or potential rarity of "relay" Brood hidden within the ranks.
These "smarter" Brood might be his attempt to adapt the Brood so that more sophisticated tactics can be realized before much longer. If that's the case and Storm Chaser allows herself to become complacent with her "stupid" enemy, she's in for a nasty surprise.
There's no need for him to relay orders solely through his implant. He could just as easily use an ordinary radio to transmit verbal orders to the internal radios that every Brood has, like any other military commander.

I think he's uninterested in commanding large-scale actions, or learning to do so. He'd much rather be on the front lines, kicking ass and taking names, which he's good at, but it leaves his troops acting like idiots. He probably had tacticians at his command when he was leading the zebras, but not for the Brood. But then he has an unlimited supply of Brood, so there's no particular need for awesome tactics.

But really, he's an immortal master of all martial arts and dark sorcerer. Does he really NEED to get the "tactical genius" hat as well?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:15 pm

I wouldn't expect him to be a tactical genius, but I still figure him to be familiar with it.
This army exists to keep the good guys occupied while he works on other things, certainly.
I'm not sure the radio idea has merit, depending on how the Brood operate. If they'd be able to particularly recognize his voice or his com system was encrypted such that some of the other old world tech across the wasteland couldn't be used to hack it.
'Cause then he'd lose control of his army to any decent impersonator, right?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:18 pm

Somber wrote:It's nice to meet you.  I'm really glad you like my story.  Not really sure why, but glad you do!

Also, where has this been my whole life!  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AooOD3qTRlQPdGRXb1U5YzRGbW9JNk5Dd1NYOUhFS1E#gid=0
I think I first mentioned it here late in 2013, and linked to it about a year ago when someone mentioned having trouble tracking characters. I probably could have done more to enhance its visibility, though, and for that I'm sorry.

swicked wrote:
Somber wrote:Only you, which tells me that I did him well.
Awww... well, you really did. The guy's just such a fun total bastard. Twilight Sparkle
I think he works to fill a role similar to Brass and then Charm. I think there are differences in how I reacted, though, because he is specifically targeting people other than Blackjack (compared to Brass), is more competent (than Charm), and comes across as, effectively, a domestic abuser. He's still someone to root against, but I don't find him as fun.

O. Hinds wrote:Oh, cell 257 B.  Thanks.
...Though, right, I can't do anything about this.  I'm used to being able to correct all the errors pointed out in this thread.  :)
Would you like to be able to? I could add, at the least, Somber and the editing team.

WavemasterRyx wrote:
O. Hinds wrote:Oh, cell 257 B.  Thanks.
...Though, right, I can't do anything about this.  I'm used to being able to correct all the errors pointed out in this thread.  :)
Heh, ah I forget terminology like that too easily...  Ah... and there is that, yeah.  I wasn't sure if mentioning it here would be a good enough way for it to get back to the person who made the spreadsheet...  Apparently it is open for adding "comments" though, so I tried putting a note on the cell and hopefully they'll be able to take care of it...
That one should be fixed. I've also added "Go Fish" as an alias for Blackjack.

More on the 72 interview/recent discussion here: I think that I have a philosophical difference with Hinds, in that very often I don't think the specifics of how things work is of particular importance in stories. That's far from never, of course, but the operations only matter to me if they make a difference to what's going on, or if that is what the story is about. For instance, as far as I can tell, the only thing that we really need to know about tanks is that they are self-repairing tanks, with limits. The fuel source and similar technical details, though well-thought out and developed in the Setting thread, are something extraneous to what's going on. Deus runs, and that's what matters. If he runs on magic, or cic, or a compact nuclear reactor or battery doesn't matter unless that will be used to define what he can or cannot do in relation to the rest of the world. Does he need refueling, and if so, where can that be done? Will he cause a nuclear disaster if blown up? What do you need to do to beat him? It's questions like these that define what I think I need to know, and even that can be fudged if what happens feels plausible. Of course, if your genre is hard sci-fi, it's different.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:28 pm

swicked wrote:I wouldn't expect him to be a tactical genius, but I still figure him to be familiar with it.
This army exists to keep the good guys occupied while he works on other things, certainly.
I'm not sure the radio idea has merit, depending on how the Brood operate. If they'd be able to particularly recognize his voice or his com system was encrypted such that some of the other old world tech across the wasteland couldn't be used to hack it.
'Cause then he'd lose control of his army to any decent impersonator, right?

It worked well enough for Lighthoof... Pipbuck broadcasters have built-in encryption, remember?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:41 am

SilentCarto wrote:
swicked wrote:I wouldn't expect him to be a tactical genius, but I still figure him to be familiar with it.
This army exists to keep the good guys occupied while he works on other things, certainly.
I'm not sure the radio idea has merit, depending on how the Brood operate. If they'd be able to particularly recognize his voice or his com system was encrypted such that some of the other old world tech across the wasteland couldn't be used to hack it.
'Cause then he'd lose control of his army to any decent impersonator, right?

It worked well enough for Lighthoof... Pipbuck broadcasters have built-in encryption, remember?
Fine, though Lighthoof's forces were sentient beings and the Brood are not.
I just expect they require more micromanagement and that advanced tactics (like, assuming they were loaded with something similar to pipbuck software, being capable of something more than going to a location and shooting anything hostile along the way) might be well beyond them.
Though maybe I just haven't been paying attention and they have been, on an individual level, as adept as a sentient being can be in ways outside of durability.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:46 am

Icy Shake wrote:Would you like to be able to? I could add, at the least, Somber and the editing team.
Hm, sure. Thanks.

Icy Shake wrote:More on the 72 interview/recent discussion here: I think that I have a philosophical difference with Hinds, in that very often I don't think the specifics of how things work is of particular importance in stories. That's far from never, of course, but the operations only matter to me if they make a difference to what's going on, or if that is what the story is about. For instance, as far as I can tell, the only thing that we really need to know about tanks is that they are self-repairing tanks, with limits. The fuel source and similar technical details, though well-thought out and developed in the Setting thread, are something extraneous to what's going on. Deus runs, and that's what matters. If he runs on magic, or cic, or a compact nuclear reactor or battery doesn't matter unless that will be used to define what he can or cannot do in relation to the rest of the world. Does he need refueling, and if so, where can that be done? Will he cause a nuclear disaster if blown up? What do you need to do to beat him? It's questions like these that define what I think I need to know, and even that can be fudged if what happens feels plausible. Of course, if your genre is hard sci-fi, it's different.
I agree with you about the tank mechanics here. The thing is, how they work determines what logistics they need and is determined by their history, and if you don't know what they need and where they come from, how can you tell that it doesn't impact the story? Or, rather, if you begin with it not affecting the story, how can you know that there's a non-problematic way to make that work unless you have some idea of the mechanics and history?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:37 am

Basically, one of the early passes for me is asking the question, is whatever it would take for this to just work more outlandish/less plausible than other (similarly situated, for example, in a world with Raptors and Thunderheads, do I think a tank plus x, y, and z narratively-convenient features is a stretch) features of the world I've already accepted? In this case, for instance, at least some matter-generation is covered by the water talismans (so any fueling can be hand-waved away) and self-repairing is more believable in a large tank than a cyberpony. Etc. So since I'm pretty sure it can work, and probably in a bunch of different ways, then I don't really care which of them it is. Granted, this is also accentuated by being along for the ride in a vessel that puts everything technical in soft focus through not knowing or caring about any of this (guns excepted) herself. (And that in various cases or at certain times, all that's necessary is that something does what's on the tin. How does the monster of the week work? Eh. It'll be gone in half an hour anyway, hour tops. As long as it's not clearly breaking anything, or could be waved off as unique, stuff can be fudged. How does this thing that's going to be a major focus, stick around, and impact the plot and characters in significant ways while being integrated with them and the major themes or ideas the story's built around work? Now that's something that at least the author should probably have a more definite idea about.)

A lot of it comes down to a gut feeling of whether I think I could come up with something to make it work without adding a bunch of new things to the setting. On that basis, I think that you need to go pretty far in the FoE universe, and more so with the expansions in PH. In a lower-powered setting than wartime Equestria and the zebra nation, some thought might need to be put into the background of things like the tank.

I think a contrasting example is the Steelpony augmentation. For the first 16 chapters at least, only a pretty sketchy concept of how it works was needed. But with them going from pretty much the flavor of the antagonist (that really just needed to explain why he's hard to deal with) to an important component of the main character's arc, things had to get more definite. Or, if Rampage were just a temporary side character, joining up to get Blackjack to the Arena (maybe keeping the amnesia and multiple personalities but cutting some of the angst) and then showing up again from time to time in battles or whatever, then I'd be fine with not knowing why exactly she had the whole regeneration thing and reset to a filly after disintegration. Whatever. It's a Reaper thing; a bunch of them have weird stuff going on. But with her as a major character whose story is built around why she is that way, obviously that needs to be built up.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I differentiate between the story and the things that help the story move along. If something is just part of the latter group, then as long as it doesn't jump out as ridiculous, I'll just accept it and keep focusing on the actual story. Especially when the setting is already fuzzy and stretchy.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:55 am

Hm.  It's sounding like our views are similar in many ways, the greatest difference perhaps being the exact locations of the thresholds of "good enough explanations or stand-ins therefor".


Last edited by O. Hinds on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by LordsServant on Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:14 pm

That's a really cool spreadsheet that was posted earlier, but (and correct me if this sounds a touch morbid) wouldn't it be better improved by adding in when/how certain characters died?

Obviously, Blackjack gets to cheat and get a few entries, but knowing how/why/when (or w/e else) certain characters died was half the "fun" (I'm morbid as fuck come to think of it) of the original FoE. Maybe have an additional tag for further details we learn about their deaths?

Example:
Pinkie Pie:
Location: MoM Hub, Manehattan, Equestria. 
Cause 1: Killed in balefire explosion when magical protections on building failed. 
Reason: The apocalypse.
Cause 2: Killed by Psalm/committed suicide(up for debate considering circumstances) during the execution of Partypooper. 
Reason: Listed target of Partypooper.
When: The day of the megaspell exchange and end of world, immediately prior to Manehattan megaspell event.
Discovered: (w/e chapter it was in FoE, and the Psalm flashback chapter in PH)

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CD on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:34 pm

What, are we going to play Cluedo: Project Horizons edition?

"It was Blackjack, in the Fluttershy Medical Centre, with a flick of a switch. Mass child murder."
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:20 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Hm.  It's sounding like our views are similar in many ways, the greatest difference perhaps being the exact locations of the thresholds of "good enough explanations or stand-ins therefor".
Sounds fair.

LordsServant wrote:That's a really cool spreadsheet that was posted earlier, but (and correct me if this sounds a touch morbid) wouldn't it be better improved by adding in when/how certain characters died?

Obviously, Blackjack gets to cheat and get a few entries, but knowing how/why/when (or w/e else) certain characters died was half the "fun" (I'm morbid as fuck come to think of it) of the original FoE. Maybe have an additional tag for further details we learn about their deaths?

Example:
Pinkie Pie:
Location: MoM Hub, Manehattan, Equestria. 
Cause 1: Killed in balefire explosion when magical protections on building failed. 
Reason: The apocalypse.
Cause 2: Killed by Psalm/committed suicide(up for debate considering circumstances) during the execution of Partypooper. 
Reason: Listed target of Partypooper.
When: The day of the megaspell exchange and end of world, immediately prior to Manehattan megaspell event.
Discovered: (w/e chapter it was in FoE, and the Psalm flashback chapter in PH)
I've added chapter and circumstances of death columns, but right now it's just off of memory. If/when I finish more accurate and comprehensive versions, those columns will probably be spoilered.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Vinylshadow on Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:57 am

Yeah, a comprehensive list of who died when, how and where sounds reasonable, at least for prominent characters

RIP, Enclave Soldier TK-664, or whomever

Would make a handy resource for Fo:E writers too
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Blue Heron on Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:06 am

And chapters of when they died, for ease of reference.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by ILM126 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:20 am

O. Hinds wrote:@ILM126:
Welcome to the forum!
Oh, if you're joining that far back, you ought to be aware that this thread tends to drop spoiler marking for a chapter not all that long after its release, so you read here at your own peril until you catch up (unless you don't care about spoilers, of course).
I'm glad that you're enjoying the story so much, though.  :)

Ryx wrote:also there's a typo on 257 B
What do you mean?

Thanks, I'm now just finishing the last chapter in volume 4 now. Trying to catch up (Chapter 1 ~ 72) in 1 month :D

Going well...  Applebloom (Too many late nights...)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:23 pm

swicked wrote:Fine, though Lighthoof's forces were sentient beings and the Brood are not.
I just expect they require more micromanagement and that advanced tactics (like, assuming they were loaded with something similar to pipbuck software, being capable of something more than going to a location and shooting anything hostile along the way) might be well beyond them.
Though maybe I just haven't been paying attention and they have been, on an individual level, as adept as a sentient being can be in ways outside of durability.
Well, they should require no more micromanagement than the robots we see elsewhere in the story. At the spaceport, Amadi didn't have to order anything more specific than, "Brood!  Destroy them all!  Kill everything!  Kill it all! And destroy those rockets!" One would assume they were loaded with battlefield tactics equivalent to any other military robot. When possible, they use effective combined-arms tactics involving unicorn teleports, pegasus air attacks, and reasonably intelligent deployment of heavy weapons like tanks. They don't use cover, but that's understandable -- they have no fear of death, and with effectively unlimited numbers, it doesn't matter if ten of them get shot down charging an opponent if it gets the eleventh guy within stabbing range. And it's not like they just Zerg Rush in and hope at least one gets through; as we saw at Miramare, Stable 99, and the bunker under No Pony's Land, they use tactics specifically designed to get that eleventh guy through. They're not stupid so much as just alien to any being with a sense of self-preservation.

All in all, whenever we see Brood fight up close, they use excellent tactics for getting the job done. It's just that those tactics can be predicted and exploited to create a strategic failure, which shouldn't happen if they were being micromanaged in some way.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WavemasterRyx on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:23 am

Somber wrote:Also: interview here, if you want to read.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfx7y5v4xxw&feature=youtu.be  Edit: I sound so horrible...
Ah... 32:28... I'm so sorry... I had no right to cause such a disruptive influence, even in part...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:32 am

LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:41 am

Aye. She's been denying Somber's plans for her since she went from "creepy" to "cute", you may recall from the interview. :)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:30 pm

Somber wrote:LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
In the end, only her will remain atop the ashes.

Maybe Boo is the cause of PH going on for so long? Because once the story is over, she too will end?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Epsilon on Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:21 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
Somber wrote:LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
In the end, only her will remain atop the ashes.

Maybe Boo is the cause of PH going on for so long? Because once the story is over, she too will end?
Are you sure about that? Uh-oh, spin-off incoming!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WavemasterRyx on Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:44 pm

Somber wrote:LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
O. Hinds wrote:Aye.  She's been denying Somber's plans for her since she went from "creepy" to "cute", you may recall from the interview.  :)
I just don't want to cause more trouble than I already have...  As long as you think it's worth it, sirs... just please don't let her lose her mane...

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Maybe Boo is the cause of PH going on for so long? Because once the story is over, she too will end?
Well the original plan was to keep drawing her well after PH eventually ended... if I can ever manage to draw her (or anything) again...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:35 pm

Ryx wrote:Well the original plan was to keep drawing her well after PH eventually ended... if I can ever manage to draw her (or anything) again...
Good luck. Sorry. I feel like I ought to be saying something more than that, but I'm not especially good at comforting people.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Borsuq on Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:38 pm

Wow, the discussion has been dead here for a while. Hm...

...

What happened to Jetstream?
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:09 pm

Good question.

------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:06 pm

As I recall, that's not been explicitly revealed, but the pieces are there.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by LordsServant on Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:07 pm

Borsuq wrote:Wow, the discussion has been dead here for a while. Hm...

...

What happened to Jetstream?

If you want to read into the Happyhorn chapter a bit deeper, I think it's sorta implied that she was used to kick the apocalypse off by providing targeting info for some kind've equestrian megaspell on the Zebra capital.

She was p. off the deep end, and I think it was Garnet (or Onyx?) who sent her to do it as part of the whole "end of the world plan" which also involved partypooper and various other stuff.

If you remember back near the beginning when Blackjack first starts getting stalked by Lacunae, she discovers a museum (she later gets the starmetal sword from here) that was raided literally hours/minutes before the apocalypse. Blackjack thought it was a coincidence due to the fact that there was a lot of spare casings etc etc implying that it would've been cleaned up normally, but later finds out through a recording that it was some kinda blackops team actively communicating about how long they had until the apocalypse during the raid.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Borsuq on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:30 pm

Well, it's alive!... somewhat...

What I meant to ask if it was ever mentioned how she died. I recall her being send to Zebra lands (which, if my memory serves correct, she did because she went crazy and thought [or somebody told her, like Garnet or Onyx] that the zebra were holding Stonewing captive... of course, she was being used for that purpose of kicking the apocalypse...).

I don't expect her show up in Project Horizon, of course, not now out of the blue (and on the Moon), but... in case a blue and purple pegasus mare were considered to possibly appear in some other fanfic in some fashion... it would be nice to know if it was ever stated in Project Horizon that Jetstream was dead, end of story.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Somber on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:11 am

She got left behind by the story.  Essentially, she carried a targeting talisman to Roam.  When the newest megaspell was tested, it didn't go off where they thought it did, and instead nuked Roam.  To be fair, Garnet set off doomsday with the belief that Equestria would come out of it alive and intact.  She didn't anticipate that the skies would be closed off and the surface left to rot.  She just wanted to get out of the OIA purge with her tail intact, because she saw the writing on the wall way earlier than others: the liaisons would hang with Goldenblood for crimes against the country.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by RoboRed on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:40 pm

So did Jetstream die off with the nuke?

------------------
Aonee wrote:
jacky2734 wrote:((Aonee, don't make me invent a way to punch you over the internet.))
((If you do, I will invent a Korean technique to block it with someone else's face. And, construct more pylons.))

CamoBadger wrote:((Wow, zebra incest is powerful shit))

Mister Frost's friend, "Darren" wrote:"I'm scared to break up with her, though. Her dad's an ex-marine; if I make her cry he'll club me over the head with a pillowcase full of doorknobs and Tom Clancy novels."

Sindri wrote:This is a thread for fans of a fanfiction of a fanfiction about murderous miniature pastel equines in a grimdark post-apocalyptic future.
If you wanted to stay anywhere near socially acceptable, you should have taken a left turn about three layers of WTF back.

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SS117 on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:40 pm

I apologize if this was answered way before but just where did Blackjack get the megaspell that destroyed Shadowbolt Tower?

Also, I think it would have been funny to get Velvet's reaction to seeing Whisper for the first time. Or "Oh, hey, you're mom is a tree."
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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