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Worm Discussion Thread

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:53 pm

Should we make a separate RP thread?
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:00 pm

Sure. I'll start it up (and likely include the 'starter' information for any other new non-readers that want to come in)
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:33 pm

Alright, background stuff is posted, and Sci was kind enough to transplant our characters. I think it's time to move this train over to the next track, if you'll forgive the mechanical impossibility of that metaphor.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:50 am

I haven't particularly figured out what I want to be so far, but I came up with a few ideas for capes. Only two of them are particularly worth presenting, I think, so I'll post them in the interest of doing what Sci did and expanding the world a little.
...I might go back and edit these later to make them have more character, like Sci did with hers, but I kinda just wanted to post something to make it clear I will wanna be in this. I'll try and get my act together tonight over my next night shift and with have something ready to go for the weekend or whenever the show starts.

...I also have no idea what makes for a particular number in the whole classification thing, so I just made those up. Might adjust them later.

Concoct:
Concoct, previous Cocktail – Mover 2, Striker 2, Breaker 2 – Ex-Villain – Has the ability to modify his own body chemistry to contain any number of chemicals he has previously experienced. His previous typical use of his power was to re-experience any high he's ever been on as his blood suddenly starts containing alcohol, LSD, speed, etc. As possibly some natural restriction by his passenger, he seems to be incapable of overdosing or experiencing any form of withdrawal.
While he typically eats, sleeps, relieves himself and breathes, he doesn't seem to need to; his power is capable of creating or removing anything it needs in order to service its cells directly.
More recently he attempted to make some money selling amounts of his own blood dosed with various drugs. This brought him some negative attention from local criminal elements that led to a string of deaths as a result of him dosing himself with massive amounts of adrenalin, steroids and cocaine when cornered. Following that all activity from him went quiet, with some speculation regarding his death.
Outside of public knowledge, though, he was collected by the Protectorate. Rather than going to the Birdcage he offered work. Having few serious crimes under his belt prior to the deaths that were ruled as self-defense, he joined as part of his probation.

Voodoo :
Voodoo – Breaker 4 – Protectorate – Has the ability to create a crude small cloth-like replica of herself in her hands. As long as she protects the doll from physical harm (and it remains within a radius of a couple blocks), she is very difficult to hurt, but not much else. She can also share certain aspects of the doll. If it is left in a well-ventilated area, for example, she does not need to breath. If tossed, she can similarly be sent flying. If she is hurt or maimed, the doll frequently emulates the damage in a way that it can be patched and respectively heal her. Her passenger prevents any severe negative repercussions from echoing back to her through the doll such that destroying it cannot kill her. She can be made to feel severely uncomfortable or sick by its destruction or abuse, though. She can banish and conjure the doll at will, as well as determine what traits she decides inherit from it at a given time.

((I forget if it's been stated to the people signing on to the RP, but it's established in Worm that there's generally no way for a person's power to hurt or kill them due to mental blocks that I think had a particular name but I can't remember it. Might be worth keeping in mind during the RP.))

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:28 pm

There's no way for the powers directly to harm the cape (pyrokinetics are immune to fire, or at least their own fire) but powers can and have been used against the cape (Panacea was able to interfere with Skitter's power and give her massive migraines through the bugs that the latter had on the former, numerous Thinkers get migraines from overuse of power, , ect.) I'd expect, therefore, that while Voodoo might be resistant to damage while her doll is safe, that harming the doll itself would also harm her.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:20 pm

swicked wrote:I haven't particularly figured out what I want to be so far, but I came up with a few ideas for capes. Only two of them are particularly worth presenting, I think, so I'll post them in the interest of doing what Sci did and expanding the world a little.
...I might go back and edit these later to make them have more character, like Sci did with hers, but I kinda just wanted to post something to make it clear I will wanna be in this. I'll try and get my act together tonight over my next night shift and with have something ready to go for the weekend or whenever the show starts.

...I also have no idea what makes for a particular number in the whole classification thing, so I just made those up. Might adjust them later.

Concoct:
Concoct, previous Cocktail – Mover 2, Striker 2, Breaker 2 – Ex-Villain – Has the ability to modify his own body chemistry to contain any number of chemicals he has previously experienced. His previous typical use of his power was to re-experience any high he's ever been on as his blood suddenly starts containing alcohol, LSD, speed, etc. As possibly some natural restriction by his passenger, he seems to be incapable of overdosing or experiencing any form of withdrawal.
While he typically eats, sleeps, relieves himself and breathes, he doesn't seem to need to; his power is capable of creating or removing anything it needs in order to service its cells directly.
More recently he attempted to make some money selling amounts of his own blood dosed with various drugs. This brought him some negative attention from local criminal elements that led to a string of deaths as a result of him dosing himself with massive amounts of adrenalin, steroids and cocaine when cornered. Following that all activity from him went quiet, with some speculation regarding his death.
Outside of public knowledge, though, he was collected by the Protectorate. Rather than going to the Birdcage he offered work. Having few serious crimes under his belt prior to the deaths that were ruled as self-defense, he joined as part of his probation.

Voodoo :
Voodoo – Breaker 4 – Protectorate – Has the ability to create a crude small cloth-like replica of herself in her hands. As long as she protects the doll from physical harm (and it remains within a radius of a couple blocks), she is very difficult to hurt, but not much else. She can also share certain aspects of the doll. If it is left in a well-ventilated area, for example, she does not need to breath. If tossed, she can similarly be sent flying. If she is hurt or maimed, the doll frequently emulates the damage in a way that it can be patched and respectively heal her. Her passenger prevents any severe negative repercussions from echoing back to her through the doll such that destroying it cannot kill her. She can be made to feel severely uncomfortable or sick by its destruction or abuse, though. She can banish and conjure the doll at will, as well as determine what traits she decides inherit from it at a given time.

((I forget if it's been stated to the people signing on to the RP, but it's established in Worm that there's generally no way for a person's power to hurt or kill them due to mental blocks that I think had a particular name but I can't remember it. Might be worth keeping in mind during the RP.))
I'm not actually sure about the numbers for the scale either. I just used the wiki and eyeballed it relative to those capes whose capabilities were known. (i.e. a better Tinker than Kid Win, who is a 4, but worse than Bakuda, who's a 6).
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:42 pm

On 29.x
It practically hurts to stop reading, at this point. The author is too good at hooks. This would be agony if it weren't all already complete.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:04 am

Done.

Khepri:
Someone please explain this new name Contessa (or whoever) gave Tailor right at their last meeting. She'd already gone through so many names, all of them well-established. Why another? Did they just name her this posthumously? How is it even supposed to catch on, at that point? I don't see anyone in the wormverse calling her anything other than Taylor, Skitter or Weaver.

Foil:
Foil's power could not be countered by Scion. Scion only ever gave out powers he could counter. This was a recurring theme, those with powers from his partner confounding him in various ways. His only option was to avoid it.
Ergo, Foil was a Cauldron cape, and I'm wondering why it was never mentioned or elaborated on. There are a few intentional loose ends at the end of the story in order to give the feeling the worlds keep spinning, but I can't think of many other questions like that which were just not touched on.

Beta:
...I'm kinda surprised at the fairy queen slash valkyrie. She knows Taylor is alive. She has to. She handed her off to Contessa and one of the capes at her disposal would have been able to tell if Contessa was lying when she said she had to off Taylor.
I don't see any threat or argument convincing her not to ever try and contact Taylor, and there's no way to "seal off" earth Beta from Doormaster.
If there ever is a worm sequel, it will start with her deciding to check in on the queen administrator in a fit of whimsy. Then, probably deciding Taylor is owed a favor when Taylor asks to see her friends again and so doing just that. Then things snowball.

On a separate note, I really don't care much for her dad. When Brockton Bay was going to pieces, destruction filling the streets with gang violence and homelessness, Taylor organizes her territory to provide food, shelter, encourage building, literally save starving orphans and all he could think about when he visited so many chapters ago is how she shouldn't be doing this. How it "didn't feel like her". When they were taking care of those kids, he questioned why adolescents were doing it, thinking there should be some kind of adult to do that sort of thing. He's the definition of an apathetic spectator. Taylor has this massive sense of responsibility to help those she can and he thinks she should just go to school like a normal girl. He continues to not really consider how horrible she felt with all the bullying and the lack of self respect and insist things should go back to how they were. He was a broken record.
I just... I can't help imagining Taylor, now that she's discovered her passion for wanting to help people, offering to volunteer to build shelters or work in soup kitchens... an absurd order of magnitude less than she once did, but still helping when she can. And her dad asking if, as a teenager, that's really the sort of thing she should be doing. Insisting once again that it's dangerous and/or that she should just be doing teen things like having fun with friends and blah blah.
Which annoys the heck out of me. She needs to make peace with the fact that she no longer needs to be responsible for saving the world, but I don't particularly imagine her ever feeling like not trying to help people when she can.

Scienza wrote:
End too:
]I agree wholeheartedly. Speaking of which, what'd you think about that final battle, since I've been dying to talk with someone about it. Fucking awesome, but thematically, it's... weird. Taylor basically beat Scion by doing exactly what Emma did to her. Granted it was to save humanity, while Emma was just an insecure sadist, but even then, Khepri's so fucking out of it that motivations of survival of her species or even her friends get incredibly blurry. It's just a very interesting resolution that fucking wrecks any last vestiges of moral absolutism in the story.
Spoiler:
...you didn't see that as the point?
Taylor sacrificed everything for this on a mental and emotional level. Her friends, multiple times over. Her sanity, her body, her mental health, her virtues, her conviction, her mentality. Everything she ever was, all the way down to the basic underlying sense of morality that had been bent, twisted and factured leading up to that fight before it shattered entirely. All for the mission.
Sacrificing people. People she knew. Giving in to her inability to do the same for her friends, not realizing she'd already done just that with Grue. Doing something so similar to what had been done to her. Destroying someone like that. It's full circle. She had nothing left in her but her life.

Still not sure who exactly gave her back her ability to speak, though. To move her mouth. I mean, I guess I can assume the fairy queen did some fixing of her brain and body to allow Contessa to interview her, but yeah.

This was never a story about bullying being bad. This was a story about someone giving up everything for a cause. Several people doing so, really.
I mean, bullying is bad, but I'd say the anti-drug campaign running throughout it, and touched upon yet again in the epilogue, was more... moral-y.
If that had ever been more of a central theme for Taylor as opposed to just Grue and Imp, I bet the author would have had her use drugs in the final act as well. As it stands, experimental noninvasive brain surgery made do.

Mister Frost wrote:
End:
I wish I could say that I knew all along that Taylor was alive, that I called Wildbow on his bluff. But the truth is that, yes, Wildbow does have the balls to do that, and I was only clinging to the faint hope of a miracle.

On one side of things, Taylor's patching things up with her dad and is slowly adapting to her no-powers, one-arm life. The Undersiders are still in business, Bitch and Imp have their own little surrogate families, that fucking whore Cozen doesn't have Grue and is denied a happy ending, and Grue is too dead-as-fuck to get between Taylor and Rachel.
Spoiler:
I seriously just couldn't accept Taylor being killed by Contessa. The epilogue chapter featuring a seemingly random teen and old woman had me immediately assuming one of them was Taylor and really, really hoping it wasn't the old woman. Which was made obvious-enough when she mentioned having a problem with interracial relationships in the past.
In any case, regarding Taylor's previous apparent death; it made no sense whatsoever. Bonesaw knew exactly where powers come from, Amy knew exactly how to tap into it at a touch to modify the effect. Contessa was fully capable of shooting in such a way that it'd put Taylor under with a non-fatal injury, though, her power continues to work after she's knocked out, so I'm guessing the bullets were real. Not sure how she managed it, but she can, because that's her power.
I really wonder who fixed Taylor, though. She only notes two soft spots in her forehead, each slightly larger than a dime, so I gotta wonder how Contessa fixed the damage to the back of Taylor's head without leaving similar obviously damaged areas. On top of that... soft spots? What's covering those parts of her skull? It seems odd to me, but I don't know anything about brain surgery, so *shrug*.

For the record, though, I long suspected the story would end with Taylor's death. I only decided it couldn't after Scion died, and all the more so after Contessa "killed" her for seemingly no reason that I changed my mind since it was perfectly within her ability to either fix Taylor or take away her power and, like she ended up doing, getting her a sort of amnesty on another Earth. Away from the entire cape community that would have hard feelings about her mind-controlling them all getting many killed and sacrificing some outright (one shapeshifter early in the fight to set off a bomb and Pretender in Alexandria's body to try and old back Scion while bombs from across all realities dropped on them both come most readily to mind).

Cozen's a whore? I seriously don't get what she did. I mean, I didn't like Grue. I never really liked him. His way of "handling" Bitch at the beginning of the story, by beating the crap out of her without ever trying to work with Tattletale or otherwise try to understand her, but him on my bad side. There had to be a better way. He only got worse from there with a lot of his calls, his ineffectiveness as a leader, all leading up to when he unloaded on Taylor after his second trigger, then thought to himself how unattractive she was, then slept with her.
It's hard to like a guy like that. I mean, he apologized after realizing he'd upset her, but it didn't feel like enough. I picked up on some chemistry early in the story, as I've said before, but it had died by the S9 arc.
In any case, I never really picked up on anything particularly wrong with Cozen outside of her choice of men. Yeah, she was squeamish at the s9 killington set-up, but I only really fault her for saying aloud things most everyone other than Taylor was thinking. She wanted to help. We never saw her help much and she was entirely out of her element, but I just don't hate her for all that.
Imp stated she liked Taylor better than Cozen, but she also implied Grue and Cozen were married. I really just saw it all as ways to mess with Taylor and ignored Imp like every should.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:01 am

Foil:
Some people, like Contessa and presumably the Number Man, got shares right from Eden, as Eden was too wounded to be able to actually hamper and cripple them. Contessa being the prime example, but Foil, it seems, being another.
Cozen:

I (mostly) kid when I say that she's an unlikable whore. We don't even know what her power is, let alone anything about her character, but all we know is that, when Taylor left, Grue got a big-titled replacement. He also acted like a lil' bitch, trauma or no, and was established to be pretty much a useless emo fuck who left everything to Tattletale and the others and was a leader pretty much only in name, so I wasn't too disappointed to find out he died like a lil' bitch in the same event that Taylor survived and overcame.
Khepri:
Egyptian scarab-God of the morning sun. One can presume the name started to spread, rather fearfully, among the capes in the wake of the fight, considering there were several big traits that separated her from other personalities we've seen from Taylor--being freaky-powerful and buttfuck insane, primarily.

Oh, and it's mentioned waaay back in Battery's interlude that Cauldron has a parahuman whose power is to remove powers. Presumably that's what they did after Contessa used her aim of powers to disable Taylor. 
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:51 am

Mister Frost wrote:
Foil:
Some people, like Contessa and presumably the Number Man, got shares right from Eden, as Eden was too wounded to be able to actually hamper and cripple them. Contessa being the prime example, but Foil, it seems, being another.
Spoiler:
...that doesn't jive. Eden crashed at a specific time, temporally, and existed solely there in one dimension. Contessa got hers right when the entity crashed down and personally killed the alien's projected body.
Foil isn't old-enough. Number Man might be, though. I didn't see any evidence he had to of been from Eden, though. Unless we're just assuming anyone particularly powerful had to of been empowered by an Eden shard.
Mister Frost wrote:
Cozen:

I (mostly) kid when I say that she's an unlikable whore. We don't even know what her power is, let alone anything about her character, but all we know is that, when Taylor left, Grue got a big-titled replacement. He also acted like a lil' bitch, trauma or no, and was established to be pretty much a useless emo fuck who left everything to Tattletale and the others and was a leader pretty much only in name, so I wasn't too disappointed to find out he died like a lil' bitch in the same event that Taylor survived and overcame.
Spoiler:
As Taylor herself points out, she had the worst chances of survival of anyone. The one main attack that decimated the oil platform, an unstoppable orb from directly above, came straight down at the center of the platform. IE exactly where she was standing, trying to organize everyone. She got cut in half and survived because she is lucky-enough not to die instantly from bisection, smart-enough to keep her mind going in a pinch and all around the baddest badass I have ever read in any story ever.
And then, of course, she climbed right back up to see if she could help anyone else. Which ended up with her telling Weld about the labrat devices and saving a few irregulars.
I like Taylor. I don't think I have ever liked a protagonist as much as I like her.
Mister Frost wrote:
Khepri:
Egyptian scarab-God of the morning sun. One can presume the name started to spread, rather fearfully, among the capes in the wake of the fight, considering there were several big traits that separated her from other personalities we've seen from Taylor--being freaky-powerful and buttfuck insane, primarily.

Oh, and it's mentioned waaay back in Battery's interlude that Cauldron has a parahuman whose power is to remove powers. Presumably that's what they did after Contessa used her aim of powers to disable Taylor. 
Spoiler:
...still giving her a nickname there posthumously. Seems odd, to me. They could all see it was Skitter/Weaver in the aftermath. Recognized her throughout.
I'm guessing they all bought that it was a second trigger, too, and didn't lynch Amy for her part in it all.

And kay. I guess, again, they must have had a powerful healer, too, since I really doubt those bullets weren't real with her power working when she's knocked out and anyone entering her radius being paralyzed.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:12 am

swicked wrote:
Spoiler:
...that doesn't jive. Eden crashed at a specific time, temporally, and existed solely there in one dimension. Contessa got hers right when the entity crashed down and personally killed the alien's projected body.
Foil isn't old-enough. Number Man might be, though. I didn't see any evidence he had to of been from Eden, though. Unless we're just assuming anyone particularly powerful had to of been empowered by an Eden shard.
Spoiler:
Eden, like Scion, set the shards to arrive at different points in time (hence people are still triggering after his death) but the shares were 'damage' (presumably the restrictions were interfered with first) after her death. We can presume that any power that doesn't have those sorts of restrictions like the Manton Effect are from Eden
Swicked wrote:
Spoiler:
...still giving her a nickname there posthumously. Seems odd, to me. They could all see it was Skitter/Weaver in the aftermath. Recognized her throughout.
I'm guessing they all bought that it was a second trigger, too, and didn't lynch Amy for her part in it all.

And kay. I guess, again, they must have had a powerful healer, too, since I really doubt those bullets weren't real with her power working when she's knocked out and anyone entering her radius being paralyzed.
Spoiler:
We can presume someone coined 'Khepri' as a sort of separation between Taylor and Khepri out of a sort of respect for Taylor and all she accomplished ( to separate her from the monster she became) or it's just one of those superstitious things that took on a life of its own.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:24 am

Mister Frost wrote:
swicked wrote:
Spoiler:
...that doesn't jive. Eden crashed at a specific time, temporally, and existed solely there in one dimension. Contessa got hers right when the entity crashed down and personally killed the alien's projected body.
Foil isn't old-enough. Number Man might be, though. I didn't see any evidence he had to of been from Eden, though. Unless we're just assuming anyone particularly powerful had to of been empowered by an Eden shard.
Spoiler:
Eden, like Scion, set the shards to arrive at different points in time (hence people are still triggering after his death) but the shares were 'damage' (presumably the restrictions were interfered with first) after her death. We can presume that any power that doesn't have those sorts of restrictions like the Manton Effect are from Eden
Spoiler:
...really? I thought that was just another unresolved mystery, like how the shards that were arriving now were sometimes (or even often) killing in their trigger events, or the new endbringer baby, what the endbringers are up to now, how they're going to resolve the teacher situation, and the dozen other things that are happening that imply the world is still turning after Taylor left for a new one.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:50 am

swicked wrote:
Scienza wrote:
End too:
I agree wholeheartedly. Speaking of which, what'd you think about that final battle, since I've been dying to talk with someone about it. Fucking awesome, but thematically, it's... weird. Taylor basically beat Scion by doing exactly what Emma did to her. Granted it was to save humanity, while Emma was just an insecure sadist, but even then, Khepri's so fucking out of it that motivations of survival of her species or even her friends get incredibly blurry. It's just a very interesting resolution that fucking wrecks any last vestiges of moral absolutism in the story.
Spoiler:
...you didn't see that as the point?
Taylor sacrificed everything for this on a mental and emotional level. Her friends, multiple times over. Her sanity, her body, her mental health, her virtues, her conviction, her mentality. Everything she ever was, all the way down to the basic underlying sense of morality that had been bent, twisted and factured leading up to that fight before it shattered entirely. All for the mission.
Sacrificing people. People she knew. Giving in to her inability to do the same for her friends, not realizing she'd already done just that with Grue. Doing something so similar to what had been done to her. Destroying someone like that. It's full circle. She had nothing left in her but her life.

Still not sure who exactly gave her back her ability to speak, though. To move her mouth. I mean, I guess I can assume the fairy queen did some fixing of her brain and body to allow Contessa to interview her, but yeah.

This was never a story about bullying being bad. This was a story about someone giving up everything for a cause. Several people doing so, really.
I mean, bullying is bad, but I'd say the anti-drug campaign running throughout it, and touched upon yet again in the epilogue, was more... moral-y.
If that had ever been more of a central theme for Taylor as opposed to just Grue and Imp, I bet the author would have had her use drugs in the final act as well. As it stands, experimental noninvasive brain surgery made do.
Spoiler:
No, I get that it's about sacrificing everything, it's just that it's such a depressingly dark (I know, in Worm, ha ha) endcap to Taylor's story. The utter deconstruction of objective morality is basically the whole point, but it leaves me conflicted in a way that I find incredibly interesting. Among other things, it also plays into that distinction between Taylor and Khepri, in that it reflects just how much of herself that Taylor abandons to the Queen Administrator. I can't shake the feeling that the reason that Khepri found that solution was that she saw the same emotions in Scion that were in the fragmented soup that used to be Taylor.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:17 pm

swicked wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:
swicked wrote:
Spoiler:
...that doesn't jive. Eden crashed at a specific time, temporally, and existed solely there in one dimension. Contessa got hers right when the entity crashed down and personally killed the alien's projected body.
Foil isn't old-enough. Number Man might be, though. I didn't see any evidence he had to of been from Eden, though. Unless we're just assuming anyone particularly powerful had to of been empowered by an Eden shard.
Spoiler:
Eden, like Scion, set the shards to arrive at different points in time (hence people are still triggering after his death) but the shares were 'damage' (presumably the restrictions were interfered with first) after her death. We can presume that any power that doesn't have those sorts of restrictions like the Manton Effect are from Eden
Spoiler:
...really? I thought that was just another unresolved mystery, like how the shards that were arriving now were sometimes (or even often) killing in their trigger events, or the new endbringer baby, what the endbringers are up to now, how they're going to resolve the teacher situation, and the dozen other things that are happening that imply the world is still turning after Taylor left for a new one.
Spoiler:
The Endbringers, Teacher,  and the other issues were definitely meant to be unresolved 'continuing adventure' plot threads. I don't think that things relating directly to Scion and his demise, though, were meant to be unanswered. The theory I posited above,  while never outright stated, is the logical conclusion of all given evidence, though others are free to disagree
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:55 am

Mister Frost wrote:
swicked wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:
swicked wrote:
Spoiler:
...that doesn't jive. Eden crashed at a specific time, temporally, and existed solely there in one dimension. Contessa got hers right when the entity crashed down and personally killed the alien's projected body.
Foil isn't old-enough. Number Man might be, though. I didn't see any evidence he had to of been from Eden, though. Unless we're just assuming anyone particularly powerful had to of been empowered by an Eden shard.
Spoiler:
Eden, like Scion, set the shards to arrive at different points in time (hence people are still triggering after his death) but the shares were 'damage' (presumably the restrictions were interfered with first) after her death. We can presume that any power that doesn't have those sorts of restrictions like the Manton Effect are from Eden
Spoiler:
...really? I thought that was just another unresolved mystery, like how the shards that were arriving now were sometimes (or even often) killing in their trigger events, or the new endbringer baby, what the endbringers are up to now, how they're going to resolve the teacher situation, and the dozen other things that are happening that imply the world is still turning after Taylor left for a new one.
Spoiler:
The Endbringers, Teacher,  and the other issues were definitely meant to be unresolved 'continuing adventure' plot threads. I don't think that things relating directly to Scion and his demise, though, were meant to be unanswered. The theory I posited above,  while never outright stated, is the logical conclusion of all given evidence, though others are free to disagree

Spoiler:
Case 53s exist because the entity was not capable of guiding the selection and restriction of powers.
What I think was happening at the end, with trigger events causing monsterous transformation and sometimes killing the hosts, was the result of the shards Scion had already seeded in people no longer having any guidance at that critical moment when the person triggers.
With Scion no longer around to place shards in people, I would figure capes are a dying breed. No more people are going to be born with shards, with the capacity to trigger, and so it's the end of an era in even more ways.

By the way, I still never picked up on why the story's called "Worm".
Other than the one throwaway comment from Cherish, I mean.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:06 am

Spoiler:
Case 53's are the result of Cauldron's experiments and efforts to turn Eden's dissected corpse into usable formulae. That the pieces they were grabbing had no or few restrictions was, initially, a fringe benefit, before they realized it could produce capes like Eidolon.

My theory on the triggers at the end was pretty much the same as yours.

Concerning the future of capes--well, according to Glassting Umlat or whatever her fucking name was, the Entities' plan was to real their harvest in three hundred or so years anyway, so trigger events will certainly stop then. In the meantime, I suspect that the violent and harmful trigger events will slowly overtake the successful ones, and events in general will get rarer and less frequent until all of the shares have made landfall and just sort of hang around (perhaps being passed from parent to child, as they are now) until the deadline, when they vanish. 

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:09 am

Questions for Frost:
Why did you ever like Saint?
Why do you like Faultline and her crew?

Saint was a thief living off Dragon's successes, all the moreso when you figured out he considered himself some kind of noble jackass for his advantages over her. I never cared for him from first mention, but maybe that's because I always really liked Dragon.
Faultline was always really bland to me. Her crew, too. Gregor, while having an interesting accent, just did not appeal. Labyrinth had an interesting power, and her interaction with Burnscar was kinda nice, but still.
I just never cared about them, beginning to end. Then Weld's Irregulars came about toward the end and Faultline all but disappeared from the planet up until the final fight, when "khepri" needed their two key members.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:41 am

All we knew about Saint, initially, was that he was a non-cape mercenary who'd managed to spit in the eyes of one of the most powerful and influential capes on the planet. You kinda had to respect that, like you have to respect Lex Luthor for going head to head with the alien man-god. That respect rather faded when the details came to light, naturally.

I just thought Faultline and her crew were interesting, personally. Kinda underutilized, but had some cool ideas that I expected to see focused on a bit more. Chalk it up to a difference in tastes, I guess.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:52 am

Eh, I don't root for underdogs just because they're underdogs, personally.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:32 am

Mister Frost wrote:
Spoiler:
Case 53's are the result of Cauldron's experiments and efforts to turn Eden's dissected corpse into usable formulae. That the pieces they were grabbing had no or few restrictions was, initially, a fringe benefit, before they realized it could produce capes like Eidolon.

My theory on the triggers at the end was pretty much the same as yours.

Concerning the future of capes--well, according to Glassting Umlat or whatever her fucking name was, the Entities' plan was to real their harvest in three hundred or so years anyway, so trigger events will certainly stop then. In the meantime, I suspect that the violent and harmful trigger events will slowly overtake the successful ones, and events in general will get rarer and less frequent until all of the shares have made landfall and just sort of hang around (perhaps being passed from parent to child, as they are now) until the deadline, when they vanish. 

Spoiler:
Wait, so, you agree the messed up trigger events are because of no entity being around to moderate trigger events, and powers that confound Scion came from the other entity and lacked restrictions that he could use to make himself immune to them, but you think Foil was a natural, non-Cauldron cape?

'Cause yeah, again, I could hardly be more convinced she was Cauldron. Even if Eden's shards were in the wild and thus Scion had to be regulating them to prevent disasterous triggers, he wouldn't have made Foil.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:40 am

swicked wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:
Spoiler:
Case 53's are the result of Cauldron's experiments and efforts to turn Eden's dissected corpse into usable formulae. That the pieces they were grabbing had no or few restrictions was, initially, a fringe benefit, before they realized it could produce capes like Eidolon.

My theory on the triggers at the end was pretty much the same as yours.

Concerning the future of capes--well, according to Glassting Umlat or whatever her fucking name was, the Entities' plan was to real their harvest in three hundred or so years anyway, so trigger events will certainly stop then. In the meantime, I suspect that the violent and harmful trigger events will slowly overtake the successful ones, and events in general will get rarer and less frequent until all of the shares have made landfall and just sort of hang around (perhaps being passed from parent to child, as they are now) until the deadline, when they vanish. 

Spoiler:
Wait, so, you agree the messed up trigger events are because of no entity being around to moderate trigger events, and powers that confound Scion came from the other entity and lacked restrictions that he could use to make himself immune to them, but you think Foil was a natural, non-Cauldron cape?

'Cause yeah, again, I could hardly be more convinced she was Cauldron. Even if Eden's shards were in the wild and thus Scion had to be regulating them to prevent disasterous triggers, he wouldn't have made Foil.
Spoiler:

I'm saying I don't think Scion was regulating Eden's shards. If you recall from his interlude and from Cauldron personnel's dialogue, Scion was confounded by the 'damaged' shards, which weren't all from Cauldron--Jack Slash, among others, were referred to as having damaged shards. We can presume that most of the non-Cauldron monsters like Nilbog, Ash Beast, Crawler, ect. Are Eden shards, and it's just the fact that powers like Foil or Jack'a aren't of the sort of nature to be hyper-destructive or volatile that prevents them from having similarly monstrous natures.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:04 pm

Mister Frost wrote:
swicked wrote:
Mister Frost wrote:
Spoiler:
Case 53's are the result of Cauldron's experiments and efforts to turn Eden's dissected corpse into usable formulae. That the pieces they were grabbing had no or few restrictions was, initially, a fringe benefit, before they realized it could produce capes like Eidolon.

My theory on the triggers at the end was pretty much the same as yours.

Concerning the future of capes--well, according to Glassting Umlat or whatever her fucking name was, the Entities' plan was to real their harvest in three hundred or so years anyway, so trigger events will certainly stop then. In the meantime, I suspect that the violent and harmful trigger events will slowly overtake the successful ones, and events in general will get rarer and less frequent until all of the shares have made landfall and just sort of hang around (perhaps being passed from parent to child, as they are now) until the deadline, when they vanish. 

Spoiler:
Wait, so, you agree the messed up trigger events are because of no entity being around to moderate trigger events, and powers that confound Scion came from the other entity and lacked restrictions that he could use to make himself immune to them, but you think Foil was a natural, non-Cauldron cape?

'Cause yeah, again, I could hardly be more convinced she was Cauldron. Even if Eden's shards were in the wild and thus Scion had to be regulating them to prevent disasterous triggers, he wouldn't have made Foil.
Spoiler:

I'm saying I don't think Scion was regulating Eden's shards. If you recall from his interlude and from Cauldron personnel's dialogue, Scion was confounded by the 'damaged' shards, which weren't all from Cauldron--Jack Slash, among others, were referred to as having damaged shards. We can presume that most of the non-Cauldron monsters like Nilbog, Ash Beast, Crawler, ect. Are Eden shards, and it's just the fact that powers like Foil or Jack'a aren't of the sort of nature to be hyper-destructive or volatile that prevents them from having similarly monstrous natures.
Spoiler:
...but people dying from trigger events was entirely unheard of before Scion's death. I could have sworn it said that in the story.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Frost on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:15 pm

Spoiler:
One can surmise that Eden's shards were less damaged by her relatively quiet death than the violent, world-sundering violence with which Zion was killed.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:34 pm

How did it take me so long to realize her name is Taylor (tailor) and she makes costumes for everyone?
I mean, that's obnoxious-enough someone could have mentioned it in the story.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:21 pm

swicked wrote:How did it take me so long to realize her name is Taylor (tailor) and she makes costumes for everyone?
I mean, that's obnoxious-enough someone could have mentioned it in the story.
I think the joke was made pretty early on in Cenotaph. At one point, someone calls her "Tailor" and she freaks the fuck out, which kind of kicks off the main plot of the fic.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by swicked on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:04 pm

Looking back on the fic, there's only one thing that I feel particularly dissatisfied by.

Not ending spoilers, but I don't know where they're from:
That stupid kid who figured out Taylor was Skitter based on nothing.

The only physical aspect of her that was at all identifiable was her curly brown shoulder-length hair. Her armor, while not particularly bulky, had enough panels that it probably skewed her profile a bit. The hump/compartment on her back, too.
The guy hadn't seen Taylor since before the Endbringer attack, when she had an entirely different presence about her. She didn't stand as straight, she was less confident of herself and visibly much more skittish about her environment. She was a passive doormat who would never even dream of taking over part of a city, let alone practically the entire thing through a criminal gang.
There were estimates as to her age and height since she would have never allowed the authorities to get down anything specific, and that doesn't really help when you're just trying to eyeball something. Show me one person, then show me the same person months later with 95% of their body covered and I probably wouldn't be able to confirm or deny they were the same. And he was doing this based on pictures. He never gave the impression he'd met Skitter.
It's as inexplicable as matching Bruce Wayne to Batman, minus the fact that Skitter was loaded and Taylor was known to be middle class at best with no signs her family was doing any better than anyone else's.

There had to be better ways to inexplicably get her to the school so that the plot could progress. A promise to her dad she would go there and just look around a little bit to see if maybe she'd be okay with considering returning to school. I'm certain he could have guilted her into that much. Heck, he could have had her promise to meet him at the school for lunch. I'm certain it wouldn't be entirely unheard of. She arrives early, runs into Emma, stuff continues as usual.
She could have had something she needed to tell Charlotte. That's the one that knew her, right? She might not have been answering her phone while at the school but needed to know she needed to pick up the kids from elementary school just before the end of the school day since her other lieutenants were busy and Skitter can't really be showing up at schools to collect children or she had another appointment.
Alec could have even played a bad prank on Taylor, stating he was going to go nab control of Emma for her and screw up her life, too, as a favor for the great job she's been doing as leader of the Undersiders. Then turned off his phone and just played video games the entire time up until Taylor got to the school, used her bugs to realize he wasn't even in the building, run into Emma and realized she was acting like her normal, terrible self, and texted him "wft?" only to, predictably, get a text back of "Hahaha, dork."

Any of those would have been better, to me, than random kid.

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Stringtheory on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:30 pm

And I just finished Arc 26.
My only words: HOLY SHIT.
Spoiler:
Shit's fucked on a multi-dimensional scale...that's a new record for Worm!
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:12 am

Parian and Taylor 16.1 is the last chapter I read. Can't remember when this information is relevant:
If Taylor could get enough of her spider silk cloth she could really beef up Parian. I mean the cloth she uses for costumes would be usable for her constructs right?

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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Scienza on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:17 am

Last wrote:
Parian and Taylor 16.1 is the last chapter I read. Can't remember when this information is relevant:
If Taylor could get enough of her spider silk cloth she could really beef up Parian. I mean the cloth she uses for costumes would be usable for her constructs right?
Spoiler:
This sort of plays into the question of how much of Parian's power is for show/it's the only way she knows how and how much is actually her power. Because she does have the problem that she can't really stitch together cloth that's stab proof.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:23 am

Scienza wrote:
Last wrote:
Parian and Taylor 16.1 is the last chapter I read. Can't remember when this information is relevant:
If Taylor could get enough of her spider silk cloth she could really beef up Parian. I mean the cloth she uses for costumes would be usable for her constructs right?
Spoiler:
This sort of plays into the question of how much of Parian's power is for show/it's the only way she knows how and how much is actually her power. Because she does have the problem that she can't really stitch together cloth that's stab proof.

Spoiler:
Refresh my memory, it's been a while since I've seen Parian sew together anything, last I remember was leviathan and that's been a while. Isn't her needle ethereal or something? I don't think she used an actual needle or something large and improvised to get the job done. Dominion over cloth I'd imagine is dominion over cloth.

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