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[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:57 pm

Harmony wrote:Putting the lunar-dust sorting / reprocessing facilities on the moon itself, for starter, would look like a good way to avoid sabotage. And if you're good at bluffing / hiding your operations, when your rockets come back to Equus with their cargo holds full of gem, you can simply say you mined them on the Moon.

After all, who's to say that the process that created gems on the Equestrian peninsula couldn't also have taken place on the Moon? I mean, the whole place is MADE of magic, so to speak.
Heh, interesting idea...
I'd already been pondering the idea of an Alliance moon colony. Of course, there's one big problem: Who runs it? Once again, Alliance internal politics rear their head. Elusive would want it to be a Company town, the Miliozi another city of their own. That problem could be solved by compromising and making it a Port-Maple-like power... but with control over the Alliance's gem supply, it would probably be on a fast track to being a third major power. Still, that might be the most likely; among other things, a less ideologically extreme power is much less likely to start throwing around non-empty threats to burn down the planet as soon as they have a fully independently viable position on the moon. And while Elusive or the Miliozi probably wouldn't do that, it's probably believable enough that they might to cause concern.

Harmony wrote:And now I'm wondering just how much resources it'd take for the NCR / Geneighva to start mass-producing Crusader Maneframes.
Given how few of them Equestria made, I imagine that they're rather expensive.

Harmony wrote:I mean, given the description made of them in the story, they look like they're REALLY powerful. Or maybe the thing that made them special was simply their ability to interact in a complex way with spells / cast them?

...

Oh. Oooooh...

Nooooow I can see Elusive really wanting to get his metaphorical hooves on a Crusader mainframe.
Yeah. Once someone has the idea of using moonstone for gems, and once it's actually confirmed that that's practical, the space program, in my current thinking, is almost certainly going to be the big activity of the Alliance for some time (barring foreign interruptions). The Alliance wants gems for computers, for reactors, for magical energy weapons, for talismans... and that's not even counting the other benefits of getting into space.
(And we know, as far as I recall, pretty much nothing at the moment about the other(?) planets in the Equus system.)
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:22 am

Well, at least this provides a good backdrop for a possible future expansion of the setting in space, later chronologically.

Though if people start colonizing the Moon, it's going to be interesting to see how they're going to interact with the locals (I hold on to the hope that the Astrostable survives PH and continue to thrive); and the possible intrigues that may be born around the ruins of the Lunar Palace:

- Among other things, it's possible that there's still flux there (from Tom's launching system), and given the Equestrian Wasteland was cleaned of it by the Gardens, and unless some parts of Zebrica have been contaminated with the stuff during the war, that'd make it one of the only remaining source of Taint in the world; short of finding a new God of Chaos and imprisoning them to harvest flux. And given the possible applications of the stuff by dedicated people... Yeah.

- The place is choke full of mystical energy remaining from Nightmare Moon's imprisonment. I wouldn't be surprised if the place was haunted or even literally cursed. Or if it had some potential for a number of black magic rituals to be performed. And add to that the mystical nature of the moon itself and the possibility that the ambient soul-energy could be used to boost even more any dark-magic megaspell summoned there... People could get into their head to build a successor to Horizon.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:47 am

Aye, a lot of interesting potential there (though I'm not sure just how likely it would be that the Lunar Palace site is useful), and even more if the lunar mining operation has to have its nature disguised.

But yeah, that's in the future. I'm not sure just how far along the space program is in 30 SR, but, as far as the moon goes, they might have landed a few people on it. Landing few lunar probes, maybe... a small space station (which I already have some ideas for) possibly... satellites possibly, but... yeah, it all may still be undetermined, but the Alliance pretty much definitely doesn't have any settlement on the moon yet, much less a massive mining and industrial colony.

(Sorry if there are mistakes in this; I'm pretty tired at the moment.)
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:47 pm

I'm wondering if the emergence of Red Eye and his subsequent influence on the Wasteland (establishing trade routes as a major trading partner, bringing some amount of order to the Wasteland, dealing with the most troublesome of the Raiders in his Sphere of Influence) didn't, to some extent, prepare the terrain for the NCR; by planting the seeds of an Equestrian society larger than just a group of a few isolated communities linked together by a few caravans, in conflict with each others over limited resources (see: bandits, raiders, Steel Rangers).

Because, as disgusting as his own brand of industrialized slavery was, it did create a lot of demand for slaves, which kicked up the business of slaving communities, which in turn had to step up their own operations (see: the commercial relationship between Old Appleloosa and New Appleloosa before Littlepip). Not to mention all the (other) trades surrounding Red Eyes activities in Fillydelphia and the rest of the Wasteland.

Basically, he was successful in kickstarting the new Equestrian society / economy. It just so happens that the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows occured when it did, leaving to Gawdyna Grimfeathers the opportunity to pick up what pieces she could from the remains of his Empire to build the New Canterlot Republic.


Of course:
1 - Even if it didn't happen like that, I wouldn't be surprised if Rose Eye saw it this way
2 - And -IF- it happened like that, especially if it happened like that, I'm sure the NCR would do all it can to "not think about it"


Thoughts?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:58 pm

leaving to Gawdyna Grimfeathers the opportunity to pick up what pieces she could from the remains of his Empire to build the New Canterlot Republic.
Ironically enough, without the Bitter War, I doubt the NCR would have been as successful as it is in this timeline. Without such a strong catalyst forcing people on the surface to unite together against an existential threat, and pushing people to merge their communities together into larger, more easily defensible "towns" (with all the benefits this brings), I have difficulties picturing how the NCR could have managed to grow so much as to being put on the Alliance's radar as a near-peer power.

If anything, I would have expected the NCR to have been swallowed by the Alliance by now; if only because in our current timeline the Alliance wouldn't have risked being dragged into the Bitter War, whereas in an alternate-timeline where Operation Cauterize dies down but the Enclave still implode, I have no trouble imagining the Alliance just going "Fuck it" and simply straight up annexing most of the Peninsula.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:11 am

That's a definitely possibility. Probably something that plenty of academics and partisans (the politicking kind, not the irregular warfare kind), and partisan academics, have argued about in-universe. And I think a good argument can be made.
I was at one point idly pondering writing a Rose Eye Speech on this, actually: what LittlePip did, up until actually getting into the S.P.P., could be viewed as not qualitatively new. There were plenty of heroes before her. Plenty of heroes who never fell to evil, who did genuine good right up until they died in battle or were forced to retire by injuries and the like. Plenty of people Spike saw who might have been valid Bearers, though he never managed to get a full set together until LittlePip. And yet, when she came out of Stable 2, she was greeted by a bleak, dangerous, fractured Wasteland under a cloud ceiling. Those past heroes did their bits of local good, and the Wasteland smiled, patted them on the head, let them and those they protected have a few moments of happiness, and continued on past, business as usual. Now, perhaps LittlePip's success was due to various other things that had been building up over time. A slowly widening rift in the Steel Rangers. The Goddess, who would surely be pursuing her own plans without Red Eye. The GPE, which, while provoked by Red Eye, would have been present, and steadily decaying, in his absence. Even Ditzy setting up and building her business. It's possible that all these things just happened to come together for her, and that Red Eye's empire was just another component, one not strictly necessary. (This bit, of course, would probably be downplayed a bit in Rose Eye's speech.) However, with how slow the changes were (and, in Ditzy's case, given that she wasn't anywhere near the first trader in the Wasteland and hadn't made it really big yet), it's also really easy to point to the sudden, obvious, and big difference between the time of LittlePip and the times of past heroes. That being, of course, Red Eye. And his plans seemed to be pretty much working. By the time LittlePip meets him, probably the only powers (included in the original FoE) that might cause him to stumble were the Goddess and the GPE. And the former he was actually allied with, even if both expected a backstab at the first opportune moment. Now, both of those were brought down by LittlePip... but it's conceivable that, if she hadn't been there, an actual agent of Red Eye could have dealt with the Goddess the same way she did. Or just smuggled the bomb in, kept it there long enough to force the Goddess to fight the GPE, and then set it off. As for the GPE, he was preparing to fight them already, and they were only provoked to the extremes of Cauterize by LittlePip spooking them. His victory wasn't certain, but he had a definite fighting chance. He had mass industry. He had region-wide trade networks and power projection. He had active R&D proceeding straight into production and deployment. He had a public education system. These are things not seen in the Equestrian Wasteland since before the bombs, things that would have been unfamiliar, in likely often distasteful to the point of violence (if not for the things themselves than for the taxes and other freedom restrictions needed for them), to many Wastelanders before him. Would the NCR have had nearly so much success establishing its civilization if so many aspects of it had not already been forced on a recalcitrant Wasteland at gunpoint? Those under him or opposed to him may have hated parts of his methods, but it was obvious that his methods made him strong; there's a strong temptation to salvage what one can from them, if only so that others don't get to it first and strike while one's weak.
And this is kind of rambly and hopefully not too incoherent. Sorry; I'm tired.

Good point about the role of the Bitter War, too. The war forced the NCR together while at the same time keeping the Alliance out.

And yeah, I imagine that it's not very popular in the NCR to attribute the Republic's strength to Red Eye and the Bitters. :)
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:32 am

Btw I just realized that it stands to reason that the area seized by the Miliozi on the Peninsula after the Enclave's implosion must have come under attack from the Bitters at some point or another during the Bitter War.

Probably not as much (as the rest of the Equestrian Wasteland), far from it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few Bitter commanders did try to "cauterize" Miliozi outposts in the area - maybe in the hope of seizing some of their hardware?

I dunno. I simply realized that even if the Alliance stayed neutral in that conflict, it's highly probable it still came under attack during the war.

I suppose the question is: what concessions did Elusive had to make to stop the Miliozi from just saying "fuck it" and going in hardcore?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:55 am

Inspiration for Geneighva / Stable City:

Coober Pedy, Australia
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:49 am

...Okay, see, here's the thing. The Miliozi have spent about two centuries looking up at and working out how to best fight the GPE. The Bitters are very similar to the GPE (hardware, tactics, etc.), except that they're ruthless fanatics with no civilians and a stated desire to wipe out all surface life (which of course includes the Miliozi). They can't be traded or negotiated with; they can only be fought, and fought, quite likely, until there are none left. The rules of engagement in a fight between them and the Miliozi would consist, on both side, of "Win", and the result of two heavily armed groups of extremists trying to wipe out and out-fanatic each other would likely not be pleasant for anyone else involved, or just nearby.

If the Bitters are smart, they won't attack the Miliozi, not while still fighting the NCR. If they do fight, the other Alliance powers will want to end the conflict as soon as possible (but without letting the Miliozi gain so much territory for so few losses that the Alliance's internal power balance is upset). None of the Alliance powers besides the Miliozi have holdings on the Peninsula, and the Miliozi, well, see above. Open come Profectum's vaults, and then probably on comes a three-way war with the NCR objecting to friendly Miliozi and Company strategies like "Just make the entire surface glow again, but this time turn the skies pink to cut off escape" and "Get some Cloud-treated broadcasters on Vetribus-deployed drones, and maybe even some speakers on parachute-equipped RPGs". (The hellhounds would possibly like those plans, though; the Alliance still wants gems, after all!) And, of course, the intelligence of the Bitters is perhaps not the best keystone on which to have depend the aversion of a second scorching of the Peninsula.

I can actually see Elusive making some quiet concessions to the Bitters to avoid this, hoping that the bribery will sway those immune to good sense long enough for the NCR to kill them. Don't attack Alliance territory, and if you know that some of your more suicidal comrades are going to anyway, tell Elusive so he can make sure a unit run by him just happens to be there to intercept them. Las Pegasus would probably be useful in this.
...And this might also tie in with your "Some Bitters fled to the Alliance" idea from earlier.
Of course, both the Miliozi and the NCR would no doubt be very pleased with Elusive if they learned of this and traced it to him. Though, ironically for that pairing, the Miliozi might well be annoyed at his aid to the Bitters ending up making the NCR strong enough to let him persuasively argue against just invading them. The Miliozi finding out after the end of the war would probably be when concessions would be useful to soothe them, which probably wouldn't be too hard; while they didn't get to fight the Bitters and NCR, they also didn't lose any strength to losses. And the Miliozi do recognize keeping the Alliance strong as important. If the NCR found out after the war, well, there're not likely to attack the Alliance (and, more to the point, the Miliozi), but I would expect Company business to enter a sudden and very steep decline in NCR territory.

As for concessions to the Miliozi to make them not respond to Bitter attacks... a bit hard to say. He can keep things a bit in check that way, but really, well, if the Bitters actually deliberately kill Miliozi and destroy or capture Miliozi property in Miliozi territory... Then things get difficult. The Miliozi know that they would take losses in the war, certainly; there are reasons why they're not striking first. But at the same time, a great many of them would see this war in particular as an especially pure example of their ultimate purpose. As I said above, no civilians, no negotiation, no rules of engagement, nothing but two great armies of zealots each fighting for the simple objective of the utter annihilation of the other (though if the Bitters surrendered, the Miliozi might be persuaded to be merciful). After two centuries of training every member of society for war, of telling themselves that "soldier" is the foundation of their identities and that surrender to a foreign enemy is never under any circumstances acceptable for them, well, you can probably see how it would be tempting for them to, when faced with such a "perfect" enemy, just tell Elusive and all his "I can't trade with corpses" talk to stuff it so that Miliozi can do what the Miliozi are.
...
And now I'm wondering if a rare few of those Bitters who fled to the Alliance might end up joining the exclusive club of members of the Miliozi who weren't born into it. The differences between the two groups might end up being too great for that, but there are a fair number of similarities.

Harmony wrote:Inspiration for Geneighva / Stable City:

Coober Pedy, Australia
Wow, neat; thanks for sharing that.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:57 am

Interesting points all around.

Seriously, the complexity of the geopolitics of our setting is getting out of hand and I love it.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:08 am

O. Hinds wrote:If the NCR found out after the war, well, there're not likely to attack the Alliance (and, more to the point, the Miliozi), but I would expect Company business to enter a sudden and very steep decline in NCR territory.
Thinking about it, this might be a good, politically practical reason on which the NCR could base its diplomatic policy of limiting as much as possible its economic / strategic reliance on Alliance goods and treat it (the Alliance) as a potential threat.

I mean, apart from the whole "Manifest Destiny" stuff of the NCR clashing with the overtly stated end-goal of Elusive which is ruling the entire universe. Or the not so subtle attempts on Elusive's part at economic warfare against the NCR.

... In fact, you know what, when you scratch the surface, the NCR has more than enough justifications to not trust Elusive.



...

Sudden thought: just how reliant on Elusive are the Miliozi? 'Cause I'm wondering if their being part of the Alliance at this point is just, let's say, political; or if it's a case that the Miliozi taken apart from the Alliance and its resources would be severely weakened?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:00 pm

Harmony wrote:Seriously, the complexity of the geopolitics of our setting is getting out of hand and I love it.
:)

Harmony wrote:... In fact, you know what, when you scratch the surface, the NCR has more than enough justifications to not trust Elusive.
Yeah.

Harmony wrote:Sudden thought: just how reliant on Elusive are the Miliozi? 'Cause I'm wondering if their being part of the Alliance at this point is just, let's say, political; or if it's a case that the Miliozi taken apart from the Alliance and its resources would be severely weakened?
Severely, perhaps not, but significantly, yes. It would also depend on the relations with the other Alliance powers and on how sudden the split was.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:02 pm

Do the Miliozi have R&D programs in place to try to come up with their own hardware & stuff that isn't dependent on Elusive technology, and alternative trading partners to cover for the possibility that Elusive oil & resources might stop flowing in their direction; or is their cost-analysis on that matter "nah, it's not worth it in the present circumstances"?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:05 pm

I find it funny how basically no one in power in the known world actually trusts Elusive, yet everyone is willing to trade / compromise / Ally with him to a certain extent, because, hey, shit, that asshole brings a lot of goodies to the table.

Kinda like the rest of the world with the USA :v
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:41 pm

Harmony wrote:Do the Miliozi have R&D programs in place to try to come up with their own hardware & stuff that isn't dependent on Elusive technology
Not a lot of their technology is actually dependent on Elusive, and most or all of that which currently is they could already create their own replacements for.  That would take time and resources that could be used elsewhere, though, and give results that either duplicated or, at least at first, were inferior to things the Alliance already has.  It's a tradeoff, but, from a technology standpoint, breaking away from Elusive wouldn't be their most significant problem.  Breaking away from Profectum would hurt them much more in that area, but, as breaking away from Profectum would also hurt the Elusive Company, if not quite as much, and Profectum would likely be more inclined to side with the Miliozi if a split occurred, that's not an especially big concern for them.

Harmony wrote:and alternative trading partners to cover for the possibility that Elusive oil & resources might stop flowing in their direction
This would be the big problem with breaking away from Elusive.  Having to replace all the trade and resources the Company provides with their own alternatives would, where it's possible at all, stretch them rather thin until they could reconfigure themselves for it (and even then, their strength in other areas would be sapped by it).  With their holdings on the Peninsula and some in the Alliance heartland (though Elusive could make access to some of those annoying) and potential trade partners such as Hell, they could get by, but they'd be significantly weakened and in some areas significantly vulnerable.  And the Miliozi do not find a situation where they're described as weak and vulnerable to be an appealing one.  Even if they avoided that by getting a trade partner or network of trade partners to completely replace the Company, they'd then just have traded the Company for another group they have the same sorts of relations with.  And at least they know the Company, have a history with it, and can seek leverage over it through the rest of the Alliance.

(Did that answer your question about the cost analysis?)

Harmony wrote:I find it funny how basically no one in power in the known world actually trusts Elusive, yet everyone is willing to trade / compromise / Ally with him to a certain extent, because, hey, shit, that asshole brings a lot of goodies to the table.
Heh, pretty much.

Harmony wrote:Kinda like the rest of the world with the USA :v
:)
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:24 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop


This seems like the kind things that could be built one day on the Peninsula. Especially considering cloud & levitation magic.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:17 pm

It could be a logical progression of the Aerotrain-like system you proposed earlier, too, perhaps.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:49 pm

Although I've been reconsidering the idea of the aerotrain, as it seems that the rail infrastructure of the Peninsula are in a better state than what I thought (apparently trains can run between at least Old and New Appeloosa in FoE canon, and perhaps between New Appleloosa and Fillydelphia).

As I imagine restoring to a functional state the mostly useable old rail infrastructure during the War for logistical reasons would be one of the priorities at that time, it wouldn't seem to make too much sense to develop a whole new infrastructure that's going to be used only to move passengers around when the existing infrastructure is more than enough to transport the existing volume of passengers already; and if you want to go from point A to B quickly you can just pay for a ride on a Sky Chariot / Sky Bus.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:42 pm

Harmony wrote:apparently trains can run between at least Old and New Appeloosa in FoE canon, and perhaps between New Appleloosa and Fillydelphia
Oh, sorry; I didn't know you'd not remembered that. We also have, from PH, the Goliath Express.
PH Chapter 36 wrote:“Ah… Killing Joke,” Lacunae said calmly. The yellow mare glared at the alicorn but didn’t deny it. “You’re the Goliath Express then?”
“Haulin’ anything from FillyDee to Trots to the Hoof to any damn place in between if the pay is right!” the crotchety old unicorn said proudly. Then she looked at Glory and pointed behind us at her son. “He’s Goliath, case ya missed that.”
(I'm not sure what "Trots" is. If it's Trottingham, presumably that particular destination is broad-stroked around for us. It could be something else, though. ...Or, hm, perhaps there's a still-passable tunnel under the channel? Any thoughts on that?)

Harmony wrote:As I imagine restoring to a functional state the mostly useable old rail infrastructure during the War for logistical reasons would be one of the priorities at that time, it wouldn't seem to make too much sense to develop a whole new infrastructure that's going to be used only to move passengers around when the existing infrastructure is more than enough to transport the existing volume of passengers already; and if you want to go from point A to B quickly you can just pay for a ride on a Sky Chariot / Sky Bus.
Aye.
I suppose that someone might have recently built a cloud-aerotrain line between Manehattan and Junction City, though, if we still want to use the idea.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:37 pm

So, here's an idea for something we could work on without having to wait for the end of PH: what does the average Wastelander who knows of it at all think, before FoE, about the San Frantello area? Later in the timeline but still pre-SR, what does the Wasteland Survival Guide say about it? There's obviously something there; even if the tower (on Woventales's SPP map) west of Hippocampus Energy Plant #12 can be cranked up to work as a large-coverage-radius tower like the one in Fillydelphia, there's a gap in the cloud curtain over the land and bay around San Frantello (and there's a much larger one if that tower can't be cranked up). Look from the right spots on land or, especially, from the sea and you can see ships and aircraft coming and going and the city itself active. And full of heavily armed zebras. People who approach in the right way might even be able to trade a bit, but people who approach in the wrong way risk being shot at by both the city's inhabitants and the GPE with quite possibly no benefit. I can see a variety of views developing. And when it comes time to produce the Wasteland Survival guide, does Ditzy have good information? Did she manage to get to Masozi herself, or is she just collecting information from others about it (and tagging it as such, of course, because she wouldn't want to mislead people)?

As a related question, do you think that perhaps, still pre-SR, a few enterprising seafarers like Captain Thrush (though predating her, probably) might have been able to follow cargo ships leaving San Frantello away from the Peninsula and end up doing a bit of trade with the Alliance? The Alliance can't send its own trade into GPE groundspace, but we know that there's already an unspoken "and get caught" after that from the trade with the Hellhounds. If a small ship comes to them, though, far away from prying Enclave eyes, and buys a load of weapons, luxuries, or whatever...

Anyway, just throwing some ideas and questions out there. Thoughts?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:14 am

Hmm, let's see...

First, I'm kind of reminded of New Vegas' Boomers there. People know they exist, but mostly from the fact that they also know that it's very hazardous to their health to approach the area.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Enclave actually enforced some kind of "No [Man's] Land" a certain radius around Masozi, ensuring that no community starts settling close to Masozi; as it could possibly lead to the surface starting to trade with the Miliozi (for all their isolationism, I wouldn't be surprised if the Miliozi accepted to trade to some extent with Wastelanders for scavenged metals, gems, and other goodies).

If the Enclave doesn't enforce such a quarantine area, then maybe it could be that somewhere in the region there exists a perfectly normal and indistinguishable-from-any-other-wasteland-community town where traders regularly come and trade, dropping various goods, but mostly just old scrap metal and electronics (containing gems); in exchange for "scavenged", beaten-up but functional goods (a way for the Miliozi to dispose of old equipment at a profit).

Maybe disguised as a scrapyard, with some techy ponies working as some sort of cover on how this community is able to produce these goods?

Overall, I'm thinking some sort of cover-thing like Navarro in Fallout 2, where externally it's just an old gas-station, but it's actually a cover for an Enclave military base. Maybe we could also take back the idea of a secret tunnel linking the settlement with a drop-off point a few kilometers away where the Miliozi could discreetly handle the exchange of goods back toward Masozi?

It'd be funny if, when Red Eye's time come, he starts trading with the outpost, but actually starts wanting to trade newly manufactured weapons for scrap, ant the settlement is all "sorry buddy, but we ain't interested". Which could lead to Red Eye adding 2 and 2 together and understanding he actually has some sort of trading channel with the rumored Miliozi.


Although this all hinges on the Miliozi actually trusting Wastelanders enough to start trading with them, even through all the convoluted layers of protection and anonymity described above.


On the sea-trade... I do not know. Maybe the community described above could be disguising as a fishing port on the coast south of San Frantello, on the march of the Moojave? With the fishing boats actually being used as transports for the goods, and the fish exchanged with the caravans having been fished by the Miliozi fishing fleets?

That community could also be used as some sort of channel for the Miliozi to keep a tab on what is happening in the Equestrian Wasteland. Be it from the news that are being told by the traders, as it would be from using the place as a gateway to send under-cover agents around.

Funnily enough, it could even end up as a relatively large community, now that I think about it. After all, what I described above, is bound to attract a lot of traders: scraps for food is probably quite an attractive deal for wastelander traders.

The question is how the secrecy around the community activities would be enforced? My guess is that all the inhabitants of the city would probably be actual Miliozi, the little fraction that aren't Zebra. Meaning they would have needed to go through the whole training and indoctrination / acculturation cycle to ensure their loyalty (and all things being said, why wouldn't they be given how well they get to live?). The kids are probably shipped off really young to Masozi, with the locals saying that they were "sent off to family" if some strangers start to ask question.


And back to the GPE, it's funny to imagine them trying to wipe the town out of the map as a violation of the above evoked "No Man's Land", and being met with an impressive display of force as a barn reveals itself to actually be a vetribus hangar, and the water tower as actually being an anti-air battery. And then promptly deciding "you know what, better to stay out of this one."

Because if this can be interpreted as a violation of GPE groundspace, the Miliozi are still confined to their territory, and otherwise trying to actually go through with the menace of wiping out a Miliozi settlement is pretty sure to result in a state of total war between the Miliozi and the GPE. And for all their stupidity, I'm sure the GPE realize the foolishness of such an idea. So it's likely the local commanders would just let it slide without involving the higher ups.

Also, the town could be used as a diplomatic channel between the GPE and the Miliozi. Maybe with a lone pegasi with a Dashite cutie-mark decal? Or even an actual dashite-brand, being confined to the surface but still working for the GPE for some reason.

A Dashite who became a Miliozi and is now working as an interface between the Miliozi and the GPE? That would seem a bit far-fetched. Although we've seen far worse in term of contrived circumstances...



Or, you know what? I'm going full-on Tinfoil Hat there, but maybe there isn't a No Man's Land enforced by the GPE, and all the communities in a 30-50 kilometer radius around Masozi are actually populated by ponies who are secretly Miliozi?!

Although that may be too much a twist, but this could also explain how little resistance the Miliozi could have met post-SR when they decided to annex the whole region. And these communities could also act as a buffer for actual non-Miliozi to not start and get interested in starting to explore the region.

In short, one further layer of protection for the city of Masozi, with the added benefit that it allows to provide quite a bit of valuable intelligence on the Equestrian Wasteland and some amount of trade which can be redirected to Masozi.


*shrug* I dunno. Throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Thoughts so far?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:22 am

Actually, I used the term "march of the Moojave", but it may actually be more appropriate than I thought?

After, all these actually-Miliozi village could be set up all around the San Frantello bay, considered by the GPE as actual Miliozi territory, and being used by the Miliozi as a form of decoy / misdirection / camouflage?


Still thowing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:31 am

And so as for how the place is perceived by the rest of the Wasteland, maybe for the San Frantello Bay Area it's:

"A place with good trade to be had, but don't try to hit the beach at night, ask too much questions about the ruins of San Frantello, the lights hovering in the sky at night over them, or the ships that can often be seen sailing there at night, where some of the goods come from... Actually, just don't ask any question: get on with your business and don't think about it. It's better for you, if you get what I mean."
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:37 am

And maybe that could be how the Miliozi gains a non-Zebra population at first?

Some people, maybe ghouls, start to settle the Bay Area a few decades after the Days of Fire; and some people with a vision in Masozi propose to not drive them away but integrate them into the Miliozi plans:

After all, if some people are already starting to try to colonize the place now, surely more and more and going to come in the years to come. So instead of expending resources to try and drive them away, why not use them?

This could also be a way for the Miliozi to have a non-Zebra population while limiting the number of non-zebra inside Masozi?

I don't know how racists the Miliozi actually are...
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:17 pm

Harmony wrote:First, I'm kind of reminded of New Vegas' Boomers there. People know they exist, but mostly from the fact that they also know that it's very hazardous to their health to approach the area.
Hm, yes, good comparison. Clearly some interesting stuff there, but getting too close is a substantial risk.

Harmony wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Enclave actually enforced some kind of "No [Man's] Land" a certain radius around Masozi, ensuring that no community starts settling close to Masozi; as it could possibly lead to the surface starting to trade with the Miliozi
Aye. It would also have the benefit of saying to the observing Miliozi "See, this really is our groundspace! Look at us taking action to control its borders!"

Harmony wrote:(for all their isolationism, I wouldn't be surprised if the Miliozi accepted to trade to some extent with Wastelanders for scavenged metals, gems, and other goodies)
I wouldn't call the Miliozi isolationist; their relative lack of interaction with the Equestrian Wasteland is pretty much entirely a result of the GPE, and they're active with other Alliance powers and in other regions. Perhaps you meant a different word? Or that they'd be perceived as isolationist by most people in the Equestrian Wasteland?

But regarding the trade, yeah. I mean, while the trade between the hellhounds and the Alliance isn't just with the Miliozi, it is through them and could keep going even if the rest of the Alliance pulled out; they can certainly do this sort of thing.

Harmony wrote:Overall, I'm thinking some sort of cover-thing like Navarro in Fallout 2, where externally it's just an old gas-station, but it's actually a cover for an Enclave military base. Maybe we could also take back the idea of a secret tunnel linking the settlement with a drop-off point a few kilometers away where the Miliozi could discreetly handle the exchange of goods back toward Masozi?
...Actually, yeah. I was thinking that the whole town thing probably wasn't an option, since the quarantine zone would probably would indeed be there, but, well, there's already a tunnel for the hellhound trade. Add an exit to the surface on the other side of the quarantine zone, some version of the town idea could work.

Selling old equipment might be tricky, though; the Miliozi would likely be hesitant about arming potential enemies, even with old weapons, and there's the concern that someone would notice that this town is somehow scavenging a lot of unfamiliar weapons that don't appear to have existed in wartime Equestria, or during the war at all. And things like fresh food would raise questions even more quickly... Hm...

Harmony wrote:It'd be funny if, when Red Eye's time come, he starts trading with the outpost, but actually starts wanting to trade newly manufactured weapons for scrap, ant the settlement is all "sorry buddy, but we ain't interested". Which could lead to Red Eye adding 2 and 2 together and understanding he actually has some sort of trading channel with the rumored Miliozi.
Hm. He'd probably already have visited the Alliance by that point, but, then again, if he took another route, there's no reason he'd necessarily know about this scheme, yeah.

Harmony wrote:Although this all hinges on the Miliozi actually trusting Wastelanders enough to start trading with them, even through all the convoluted layers of protection and anonymity described above.
Well, again, it depends on what the trade's in. Materiel, probably not. Maybe ammunition for weapons already in the Wasteland, but more than that, at least to general customers, seems iffy to me. Oh, and there's the additional concern I just thought of that ponies might use those weapons on hellhounds and thereby pose a danger to that relationship. So maybe not even ammunition.

Harmony wrote:On the sea-trade... I do not know. Maybe the community described above could be disguising as a fishing port on the coast south of San Frantello, on the march of the Moojave? With the fishing boats actually being used as transports for the goods, and the fish exchanged with the caravans having been fished by the Miliozi fishing fleets?
Ah, now, I'm not sure how practical the boat transport would be and think that it would probably be a better idea to put the town to the north or maybe east (though both east and south would require going underwater; that ought to be doable, but it would likely be at least somewhat more difficult) than to the south (considering, among other things, the SPP coverage (including the potential of boosting the radius of the tower west of the old power plant) and the likely resultant borders of the GPE's claimed groundspace), but the fish, there's an idea. Most ponies buying fish from an apparent fishing village are probably just going to assume that the village caught them; a lot of fish and/or lots of good fish means good fisherponies. Very few would stop to wait, take data, and work out that the village was selling much more and better than it seemed to be bringing in. And now we have a plausible trade good! If they're fishing the bay, they could even warn people away from "San Frantello" itself, spreading all sorts of contradictory rumors and telling people not to go down that end or try to get out to sea (...Oh, or just tell that that if they go into the sunlight, the pegasi will probably shoot them. Ocean fishing might be better... though then that exposes them to Alliance ocean traffic... Hm...). Or, alternatively, they could drive ponies towards the city, if they wanted a show for the GPE, or take them into the tunnel if they actually wanted them. Gain additional control over the situation, basically.

Harmony wrote:That community could also be used as some sort of channel for the Miliozi to keep a tab on what is happening in the Equestrian Wasteland. Be it from the news that are being told by the traders, as it would be from using the place as a gateway to send under-cover agents around.
Oh, and that in the other direction, yes!

Oh, hm, actually, I was playing about with the maps a bit:
So this could end up as about the length of the Seikan Tunnel. That's probably doable with hellhound labor, but we'd be looking at a pretty major engineering project just to connect with a decoy fishing village. That got me thinking, though: if this is a village by the coast anyway, why does the transport have to be under land? Much easier to just secretly excavate a submarine dock under the village, perhaps? Mind, the hellhounds might still prefer to dig a long tunnel, which, being already extant, could then be used, but the hellhounds might also prefer to dig their tunnel to the village (or, rather, the increasingly elaborate-looking secret facility built under the village) rather than all the way to Masozi. Hm. And using submarines would allow a larger number of potential places to put the village, too, perhaps... Of course, the fish and everything else would have to be transported by cargo submarine... Well, thoughts?

Oh, and do you think that the GPE could extent that tower's radius or not?

Harmony wrote:Funnily enough, it could even end up as a relatively large community, now that I think about it. After all, what I described above, is bound to attract a lot of traders: scraps for food is probably quite an attractive deal for wastelander traders.
Hm. Possibly.

Harmony wrote:The question is how the secrecy around the community activities would be enforced? My guess is that all the inhabitants of the city would probably be actual Miliozi, the little fraction that aren't Zebra. Meaning they would have needed to go through the whole training and indoctrination / acculturation cycle to ensure their loyalty (and all things being said, why wouldn't they be given how well they get to live?). The kids are probably shipped off really young to Masozi, with the locals saying that they were "sent off to family" if some strangers start to ask question.
Hm... I'm not sure that there're enough of them for that. Few outsiders join the Miliozi, and only some of them are ponies There's no stable breeding population of ponies in the Miliozi either, I think, due to how few join. Now, keeping the village filled with ponies loyal to the Alliance, that's easy: just send in Company employees. The base could still be run mostly by the Miliozi, especially if it's connected to Masozi via tunnel, and the lower levels filled with zebra Miliozi, but the Company would, on behalf of the Miliozi, put on the act up top. The Miliozi would of course be very happy to have the Company controlling their trade in yet another way, though, so now I'm wondering if they'd go so far as to rescue or "rescue" pony foals from the Equestrian Wasteland to raise as Miliozi and stock the village with. Actually, this endeavor might end up being the start of a breeding population of pony Miliozi already established by the time of FoE... Might also encourage a few more outside ponies to join... Thoughts?

Harmony wrote:and being met with an impressive display of force as a barn reveals itself to actually be a vetribus hangar
...Well, um, I think you may be misremembering something there, because if a Vetribus gets involved in combat, it's almost certainly a bad day for the people running it. The Vetribi are the high-altitude cloaking-device-equipped long-endurance observation aircraft. Even the Miliozi don't generally try to fight in them. :)

Harmony wrote:Because if this can be interpreted as a violation of GPE groundspace, the Miliozi are still confined to their territory, and otherwise trying to actually go through with the menace of wiping out a Miliozi settlement is pretty sure to result in a state of total war between the Miliozi and the GPE. And for all their stupidity, I'm sure the GPE realize the foolishness of such an idea. So it's likely the local commanders would just let it slide without involving the higher ups.
Oh,and it's possibly worse than that. Even if the Miliozi didn't respond, the Wasteland has just seen, depending on how in-the-know they are, either that A: there's some really powerful group out there who can fight off the Enclave but are willing to trade with us (and maybe we ought to see what other ways they're willing to work with us) or B: the "Grand" Pegasus Enclave couldn't even destroy a fishing village in an unprovoked surprise attack (and maybe we ought to see what else we have that can beat them).
If the GPE found out, I can imagine them swiftly officially not having found out. As long as this is kept quiet enough, it's pretty clear that they're better off looking the other way. At least in the short term, but, well, while the GPE does have competent leaders, they appear to be in somewhat short supply. And Las Pegasus, the headquaters of the covert Alliance quarantine, well, as demonstrated by their actions when the GPE broke up, they had a rather pragmatic view of the situation; if the GPE acts early enough to beat the Alliance, the Las Pegasus and the rest of the GPE win, and if it doesn't act that early, Las Pegasus and the rest of the Alliance win. Good long-term planning for Las Pegasus!

Harmony wrote:Also, the town could be used as a diplomatic channel between the GPE and the Miliozi. Maybe with a lone pegasi with a Dashite cutie-mark decal?
Oh, hm, and then you bring that up. Yes, a possibility, if the GPE found out and then managed to forget about finding out in the right partial way. Though, given the Las Pegasus thing above, I'd not be surprised if some of the exchanges were even less-legal and less-reported-to-Neighvarro than the rest. Not sure exactly how it would work, but it could probably be made to. Hm. On the other hand, though, if Neighvarro found out about that and thought (probably correctly) that the Alliance was now starting operations directly against the GPE... That they might have to respond to. Hm. Thoughts?

Harmony wrote:Or even an actual dashite-brand, being confined to the surface but still working for the GPE for some reason.

A Dashite who became a Miliozi and is now working as an interface between the Miliozi and the GPE? That would seem a bit far-fetched. Although we've seen far worse in term of contrived circumstances...
A bit farfetched, and possible really interesting around Cauterize time. I suspect that that particular Dashite's records would be "lost", oh no, no way to find them now, better not even bother looking and they're definitely not over in that fishing village we accidentally didn't assign anymore to burn.
That said, I doubt an actual Dashite would be up for this job. A framed one, maybe, if one was available, but then they'd probably have problems Enclave-side resulting from the reason they were framed. A true Dashite, though? Desert a junta not helping the Equestrian Wasteland to join a stratocracy not helping the Equestrian Wasteland? And then help the stratocracy and junta work together to continue not helping the Equestrian Wasteland? I'm not really seeing that.

Harmony wrote:Or, you know what? I'm going full-on Tinfoil Hat there, but maybe there isn't a No Man's Land enforced by the GPE, and all the communities in a 30-50 kilometer radius around Masozi are actually populated by ponies who are secretly Miliozi?!
Hm. Well, I think that there probably would be a no mare's land (for lack of a better name), so not that close. The communities beyond could be, but... Hm... It doesn't seem especially likely to me. They'd be so restricted by the need for secrecy that it's probably much more useful to put them elsewhere. If relieving population pressure in Masozi is a concern, there are plenty of place for military based in the Alliance heartland and on the frontier, places where there's no GPE to have to hide from.

Harmony wrote: In short, one further layer of protection for the city of Masozi, with the added benefit that it allows to provide quite a bit of valuable intelligence on the Equestrian Wasteland and some amount of trade which can be redirected to Masozi.
Probably not all that much more intelligence than the fishing village and other assets, though, and probably not much additional protection. Unless they were setting up hidden fields of weapon emplacements, forming a true military alliance with the hellhounds, and the like, and that might be enough to spook the GPE into action.

Harmony wrote:Actually, I used the term "march of the Moojave", but it may actually be more appropriate than I thought?

After, all these actually-Miliozi village could be set up all around the San Frantello bay, considered by the GPE as actual Miliozi territory, and being used by the Miliozi as a form of decoy / misdirection / camouflage?
Hm... Maybe? Controlling the shores of the bay, that might be useful, and focussed enough that the GPE would allow it... It would make policing contact between the Wasteland and the Alliance obviously more difficult, though...
Hm...
I don't know, sorry. Could perhaps go either way.

By the way, wasn't there talk at some point of having a slaver town in this area?

Harmony wrote:And so as for how the place is perceived by the rest of the Wasteland, maybe for the San Frantello Bay Area it's:

"A place with good trade to be had, but don't try to hit the beach at night, ask too much questions about the ruins of San Frantello, the lights hovering in the sky at night over them, or the ships that can often be seen sailing there at night, where some of the goods come from... Actually, just don't ask any question: get on with your business and don't think about it. It's better for you, if you get what I mean."
Maybe. Something like that, I think. The Guide might give less information than that, saying it's safer if you just don't ask about the city and details at all unless you really need to know, but rumors and other such talk would often be less careful.

Harmony wrote:And maybe that could be how the Miliozi gains a non-Zebra population at first?

Some people, maybe ghouls, start to settle the Bay Area a few decades after the Days of Fire; and some people with a vision in Masozi propose to not drive them away but integrate them into the Miliozi plans:

After all, if some people are already starting to try to colonize the place now, surely more and more and going to come in the years to come. So instead of expending resources to try and drive them away, why not use them?

This could also be a way for the Miliozi to have a non-Zebra population while limiting the number of non-zebra inside Masozi?
Well, it could lead to such a population, as I thought of further up in this post, but I'm not sure it would happen the way you propose here. Even if the Miliozi decided to let those people live under them, that's not the same thing as bringing them in. Possibly some of the subject population would choose to try to join and manage it, yes (or be taken as babies and raised into it, possibly), but without that, someone looking at the Miliozi and the newcomers would see not a stratocracy but a military oligarchy with a very, very small civilian population. At most the Miliozi might create multiple subject classes so that not everyone under them would be equally without rights.

Harmony wrote:I don't know how racists the Miliozi actually are...
Not much at all, really. They're sometimes a bit inclined to be pro-zebra, but only a bit. For the most part, though, a zebra who isn't a member of the Miliozi isn't automatically given preference over other outsiders. Anyone raised in the Miliozi is Miliozi, whatever they look like on the outside, though (and any zebra Miliozi who, during their shared foalhoods with the non-zebras, dispute this are reminded of it), and both zebras and non-zebras wanting to join can expect about the same (very difficult) time proving time proving themselves worthy. Mind you, some zebras could have cultural advantages (knowing the language, for example) for which other species would have to have extra studying, but that's not really the same issue.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:19 pm

Lots of stuff there. I'll try to answer as best as I could. Some stuff may slip out of my attention, so don't hesitate to bring it up again if you want to.


I wouldn't call the Miliozi isolationist; their relative lack of interaction with the Equestrian Wasteland is pretty much entirely a result of the GPE, and they're active with other Alliance powers and in other regions. Perhaps you meant a different word? Or that they'd be perceived as isolationist by most people in the Equestrian Wasteland?

But regarding the trade, yeah. I mean, while the trade between the hellhounds and the Alliance isn't just with the Miliozi, it is through them and could keep going even if the rest of the Alliance pulled out; they can certainly do this sort of thing.
"Or that they'd be perceived as isolationist by most people in the Equestrian Wasteland?" This at the very least. I mean, for all people know, approaching them is a lethal danger, so...

Selling old equipment might be tricky, though; the Miliozi would likely be hesitant about arming potential enemies, even with old weapons, and there's the concern that someone would notice that this town is somehow scavenging a lot of unfamiliar weapons that don't appear to have existed in wartime Equestria, or during the war at all. And things like fresh food would raise questions even more quickly... Hm...
Well, again, it depends on what the trade's in. Materiel, probably not. Maybe ammunition for weapons already in the Wasteland, but more than that, at least to general customers, seems iffy to me. Oh, and there's the additional concern I just thought of that ponies might use those weapons on hellhounds and thereby pose a danger to that relationship. So maybe not even ammunition.
Yeah, I was also thinking selling equipment might not be an option. Fish is probably the best bet there.

...Actually, yeah. I was thinking that the whole town thing probably wasn't an option, since the quarantine zone would probably would indeed be there, but, well, there's already a tunnel for the hellhound trade. Add an exit to the surface on the other side of the quarantine zone, some version of the town idea could work.
Oh, and do you think that the GPE could extent that tower's radius or not?
If this extension allows for a town to be built on the San Frantello Bay while still being under the cloud cover, that'd be interesting from a story point of view. We'd have to find a justification for the boosted range, though. I suppose the simple fact San Frantello's tower is down can be more than enough justification there?

Ah, now, I'm not sure how practical the boat transport would be and think that it would probably be a better idea to put the town to the north or maybe east (though both east and south would require going underwater; that ought to be doable, but it would likely be at least somewhat more difficult) than to the south (considering, among other things, the SPP coverage (including the potential of boosting the radius of the tower west of the old power plant) and the likely resultant borders of the GPE's claimed groundspace), but the fish, there's an idea. Most ponies buying fish from an apparent fishing village are probably just going to assume that the village caught them; a lot of fish and/or lots of good fish means good fisherponies. Very few would stop to wait, take data, and work out that the village was selling much more and better than it seemed to be bringing in. And now we have a plausible trade good! If they're fishing the bay, they could even warn people away from "San Frantello" itself, spreading all sorts of contradictory rumors and telling people not to go down that end or try to get out to sea (...Oh, or just tell that that if they go into the sunlight, the pegasi will probably shoot them. Ocean fishing might be better... though then that exposes them to Alliance ocean traffic... Hm...). Or, alternatively, they could drive ponies towards the city, if they wanted a show for the GPE, or take them into the tunnel if they actually wanted them. Gain additional control over the situation, basically.
I agree with all of that.

So this could end up as about the length of the Seikan Tunnel. That's probably doable with hellhound labor, but we'd be looking at a pretty major engineering project just to connect with a decoy fishing village. That got me thinking, though: if this is a village by the coast anyway, why does the transport have to be under land? Much easier to just secretly excavate a submarine dock under the village, perhaps? Mind, the hellhounds might still prefer to dig a long tunnel, which, being already extant, could then be used, but the hellhounds might also prefer to dig their tunnel to the village (or, rather, the increasingly elaborate-looking secret facility built under the village) rather than all the way to Masozi. Hm. And using submarines would allow a larger number of potential places to put the village, too, perhaps... Of course, the fish and everything else would have to be transported by cargo submarine... Well, thoughts?
Yeah, a tunnel that long might be a bit much. That's, among other things, why I suggested using the fishing boats as a form of transport (because I doubt there's that much raw volume of trade with the Wasteland). The idea of submarine cargo is interesting, though. Given Elusive's background, I wouldn't be surprised if he had designs for cargo submarines up his metaphorical sleeves.

I have this vision of a submarine being designed to load and unload a standard cargo container. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_submarine

And who doesn't like secret underwater bases? Twilight crazy

Hm... I'm not sure that there're enough of them for that. Few outsiders join the Miliozi, and only some of them are ponies There's no stable breeding population of ponies in the Miliozi either, I think, due to how few join. Now, keeping the village filled with ponies loyal to the Alliance, that's easy: just send in Company employees. The base could still be run mostly by the Miliozi, especially if it's connected to Masozi via tunnel, and the lower levels filled with zebra Miliozi, but the Company would, on behalf of the Miliozi, put on the act up top. The Miliozi would of course be very happy to have the Company controlling their trade in yet another way, though, so now I'm wondering if they'd go so far as to rescue or "rescue" pony foals from the Equestrian Wasteland to raise as Miliozi and stock the village with. Actually, this endeavor might end up being the start of a breeding population of pony Miliozi already established by the time of FoE... Might also encourage a few more outside ponies to join... Thoughts?
I hadn't thought about it being manned by Company employees, but that makes sense, yes. And while I'm not exactly the expert on the Miliozi's culture, I could see them deciding to start breeding a pony population. If only to serve as agents in the Wasteland, if anything.

Though that'd ask the question of how they'd manage to pass as ordinary wastelander ponies if they literally grew up as Miliozi, with their culture and training. Unless they spend years in immersion training to pass as a Wastelander, they're sure to be detected as not being normal wastelanders quite easily.

I suppose that could be yet another role of the city? To train these young foals what the Wasteland is like, and how to blend in?

...Well, um, I think you may be misremembering something there, because if a Vetribus gets involved in combat, it's almost certainly a bad day for the people running it. The Vetribi are the high-altitude cloaking-device-equipped long-endurance observation aircraft. Even the Miliozi don't generally try to fight in them. :)
Well, shit, yeah. I was thinking of whatever name you named the half-plane half-helicopter abominations that are the workhorses of the Alliance air forceS Crazy

Oh, hm, and then you bring that up. Yes, a possibility, if the GPE found out and then managed to forget about finding out in the right partial way. Though, given the Las Pegasus thing above, I'd not be surprised if some of the exchanges were even less-legal and less-reported-to-Neighvarro than the rest. Not sure exactly how it would work, but it could probably be made to. Hm. On the other hand, though, if Neighvarro found out about that and thought (probably correctly) that the Alliance was now starting operations directly against the GPE... That they might have to respond to. Hm. Thoughts?
Oh, hm, and then you bring that up. Yes, a possibility, if the GPE found out and then managed to forget about finding out in the right partial way. Though, given the Las Pegasus thing above, I'd not be surprised if some of the exchanges were even less-legal and less-reported-to-Neighvarro than the rest. Not sure exactly how it would work, but it could probably be made to. Hm. On the other hand, though, if Neighvarro found out about that and thought (probably correctly) that the Alliance was now starting operations directly against the GPE... That they might have to respond to. Hm. Thoughts?
The agents of the Ministry of Awesome managed to dupe Neighvarro in major ways for a very long time if you follow PH canon, so I wouldn't be surprised if just framing a poor sod, or even having that sod having volunteered to be framed for the needs of the Enclave, is a thing that could have happened.
Remember Lighthoove.

By the way, wasn't there talk at some point of having a slaver town in this area?
Not my idea. Either your's, or Silentcarto, Icy Shake or Meleagridis. Probably the later. I think it's in the first few pages of the first topic, two years ago.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:32 pm

Harmony wrote:"Or that they'd be perceived as isolationist by most people in the Equestrian Wasteland?" This at the very least. I mean, for all people know, approaching them is a lethal danger, so...
Right.

Harmony wrote:If this extension allows for a town to be built on the San Frantello Bay while still being under the cloud cover, that'd be interesting from a story point of view. We'd have to find a justification for the boosted range, though. I suppose the simple fact San Frantello's tower is down can be more than enough justification there?
A justification for how or for why? For the why, yes, no problem there. The how is the potential problem, as I see it; it depends on whether the smaller-radius towers are of the same design but with different or actually a different, less powerful design.

Harmony wrote:Yeah, a tunnel that long might be a bit much. That's, among other things, why I suggested using the fishing boats as a form of transport (because I doubt there's that much raw volume of trade with the Wasteland). The idea of submarine cargo is interesting, though. Given Elusive's background, I wouldn't be surprised if he had designs for cargo submarines up his metaphorical sleeves.
I'm not sure the submarine designs would come from Elusive, but the Alliance, if it doesn't have them already, could definitely make them, yeah.

Harmony wrote:I have this vision of a submarine being designed to load and unload a standard cargo container. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_submarine
I've read of those before, yes. :)
Good idea about the containerization.

Harmony wrote:Though that'd ask the question of how they'd manage to pass as ordinary wastelander ponies if they literally grew up as Miliozi, with their culture and training. Unless they spend years in immersion training to pass as a Wastelander, they're sure to be detected as not being normal wastelanders quite easily.
Aye, but that applies to any Miliozi on this mission.

Harmony wrote:I suppose that could be yet another role of the city? To train these young foals what the Wasteland is like, and how to blend in?
Hm. I'm not sure whether it would be better to have the village be for training or be something trained for. I mean, it would be a combination of both, but the question is which it would be more of.

Harmony wrote:Well, shit, yeah. I was thinking of whatever name you named the half-plane half-helicopter abominations that are the workhorses of the Alliance air forceS
Rotodaens. :)

Harmony wrote:The agents of the Ministry of Awesome managed to dupe Neighvarro in major ways for a very long time if you follow PH canon, so I wouldn't be surprised if just framing a poor sod, or even having that sod having volunteered to be framed for the needs of the Enclave, is a thing that could have happened.
Remember Lighthoove.
Yes, but why bother instead of just using a disguise? Slap a decal on when going down and talk about how horrible the pegasi are, the surfacers not in the know think you're just another Dashite. Peel it off when you get back up (making sure the guards recognize you, of course) and you don't have to hide away to prevent common citizens asking awkward questions about why a Dashite is still wandering around the GPE.

Harmony wrote:Not my idea. Either your's, or Silentcarto, Icy Shake or Meleagridis. Probably the later. I think it's in the first few pages of the first topic, two years ago.
[shrugs]
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:09 pm

A justification for how or for why? For the why, yes, no problem there. The how is the potential problem, as I see it; it depends on whether the smaller-radius towers are of the same design but with different or actually a different, less powerful design.
You've probably studied the question more than me, so what would be your thought there? My first guess would be that smaller-radius towers are of a scaled-down design, in order to save resources during their construction (considering how much resources went into the Single Pegasus Project, I'd be inclined to think such measures of economy would have been welcomed, or even forced upon the Ministry of Awesome, even if Rainbow Dash may have bitched about it being un-cool).

I guess the increased range then could come from jury-rigging the tower to work over its nominal capacity, by pumping more power into it or something similar. Which, logically, would also have the very fun possibility of carrying increased risk of hardware failure, or worse.

It'd be funny if somehow the weather was notably more unstable under that tower, with frequent thunderstorms, hailstorms, etc...

*shrug* Thoughts?

I'm not sure the submarine designs would come from Elusive, but the Alliance, if it doesn't have them already, could definitely make them, yeah.
Didn't the Pax Roamana have a major submarine pen in the Sea of Equestria?

I wouldn't be surprised if during the War, the PR had started using some amount of submarine cargos in order to deliver stuff at Dawn Bay, in order to avoid its convoys being blasted from the sky by marauding bands of Raptors.

I guess some may also have been used to break the blockade of the straight of Gibhalter, or even during the actual Last Offensive that saw the proto-Miliozi land on San Frantello and establish their beach-head there.

Plus, this could be another nod at the fact that the Miliozi are kind of a Shi stand-in if they landed with (among other ships) a submarine in San Frantello. Spike

Thoughts?

Yes, but why bother instead of just using a disguise? Slap a decal on when going down and talk about how horrible the pegasi are, the surfacers not in the know think you're just another Dashite. Peel it off when you get back up (making sure the guards recognize you, of course) and you don't have to hide away to prevent common citizens asking awkward questions about why a Dashite is still wandering around the GPE.
I guess it depends on how convincing the "decal" is. the whole cutie-mark area would need to look like scar-tissue (the actual cutie-mark being chemically burned off), with the dashite brand being done with a red-hot iron. And still with a number of strands of fur hair here and there.
This might be a pain to maintain such a complex piece of makeup consistent for several years on end. And also not have it fail at the most inopportune moments.

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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:08 pm

Harmony wrote:You've probably studied the question more than me, so what would be your thought there? My first guess would be that smaller-radius towers are of a scaled-down design, in order to save resources during their construction (considering how much resources went into the Single Pegasus Project, I'd be inclined to think such measures of economy would have been welcomed, or even forced upon the Ministry of Awesome, even if Rainbow Dash may have bitched about it being un-cool).
Yes, good point.

Harmony wrote:I guess the increased range then could come from jury-rigging the tower to work over its nominal capacity, by pumping more power into it or something similar. Which, logically, would also have the very fun possibility of carrying increased risk of hardware failure, or worse.
Oh, yes, that's a possibility, I suppose. Almost half the expanded coverage, including Las Pegasus and the areas visited in FoE, would consist of overlap zones, too, which would probably help. Of course, they'd have to get the designs and materials from somewhere. I suspect Thunderhead for the former, but I'm not sure about the latter. There's also the concern about breakages; this might end up one of the most heavily-staffed towers.

...Hm. If they're going to modify and staff the tower anyway, do you think they'd go further and built a military base of some sort on it?

Harmony wrote:It'd be funny if somehow the weather was notably more unstable under that tower, with frequent thunderstorms, hailstorms, etc...
Hm... I'm not sure. Do you think the juryrigging would have that effect? I suppose it depends on the details of the modifications...

...Hm. Thought. If they put a military base there, they'd have a facility (atop a projection from the ground somewhat reminiscent of this, perhaps) in an area with potentially rougher weather and near an area of strategic and secret importance. So, what about their primary special operations complex, Wonderbolts included? That could get interesting when the GPE collapses, Las Pegasus jumps airship for the Alliance, and the Miliozi claim the ground around the tower.

Harmony wrote:Didn't the Pax Roamana have a major submarine pen in the Sea of Equestria?
Aye, in Aquimania.

Harmony wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if during the War, the PR had started using some amount of submarine cargos in order to deliver stuff at Dawn Bay, in order to avoid its convoys being blasted from the sky by marauding bands of Raptors.
Oh, aye, supplies to Dawn Bay, troops and materiel to Hoofington... lots of applications for the submarines there.

Harmony wrote:I guess some may also have been used to break the blockade of the straight of Gibhalter, or even during the actual Last Offensive that saw the proto-Miliozi land on San Frantello and establish their beach-head there.
Hm, I'm not sure how useful cargo submarines would have been there, but then again, if they already had some sort of amphibious assault ship submarine design, yes, that could have been used in both.

Harmony wrote:Plus, this could be another nod at the fact that the Miliozi are kind of a Shi stand-in if they landed with (among other ships) a submarine in San Frantello.
Aye. :)

Harmony wrote:I guess it depends on how convincing the "decal" is. the whole cutie-mark area would need to look like scar-tissue (the actual cutie-mark being chemically burned off), with the dashite brand being done with a red-hot iron. And still with a number of strands of fur hair here and there.
This might be a pain to maintain such a complex piece of makeup consistent for several years on end. And also not have it fail at the most inopportune moments.
Hm, yes, good point. And if it's only being seen from a distance, clothing or some other covering would work fine. Interesting niche here, then. If I were in charge of this operation, I'd be very concerned about the operative's loyalty. After all, they're effectively banished from all but a few secure areas in the GPE, for as long as they (and the GPE) live, and they're constantly, by the nature of their job, exposed to the temptation to defect to the Alliance.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:44 pm

Oh, yes, that's a possibility, I suppose. Almost half the expanded coverage, including Las Pegasus and the areas visited in FoE, would consist of overlap zones, too, which would probably help. Of course, they'd have to get the designs and materials from somewhere. I suspect Thunderhead for the former, but I'm not sure about the latter. There's also the concern about breakages; this might end up one of the most heavily-staffed towers.

...Hm. If they're going to modify and staff the tower anyway, do you think they'd go further and built a military base of some sort on it?
Depends on how many staff they actually end up putting there. Considerring most SPP towers, as far as I know, worked as intended for over 200 years without being staffed, or even maintained; the increased wear & tear could maybe be handled simply by remotely monitoring the installation from, say, Las Pegasus, and sending technicians as needed.

Because otherwise permanently staffing the tower means, in practice, establishing a new Enclave settlement, with all the difficulties this would entail given the logistics situation of the Enclave (IIRC it's pretty much established in PH, unless I critically misunderstood it, that outside of Thunderhead and Neighvarro the standard of living in the Enclave is comparable to Stable 99 in term of "shit could come crashing down at any moment").

And even if the fact it's a military base would maybe put it at a higher priority when it comes for rations and hardware to be allocated to it, we have to remember that pretty much everything in the Enclave is "military" to one degree or another.

...Hm. Thought. If they put a military base there, they'd have a facility (atop a projection from the ground somewhat reminiscent of this, perhaps) in an area with potentially rougher weather and near an area of strategic and secret importance. So, what about their primary special operations complex, Wonderbolts included? That could get interesting when the GPE collapses, Las Pegasus jumps airship for the Alliance, and the Miliozi claim the ground around the tower.
This could be interesting, yes. This would be a better justification for a settlement to be grafted on the tower, instead of it being primarily for maintenance purposes.

Although I suppose for the Enclave people's consumption, the official word could be that maintaining the tower is indeed the primary purpose of such a settlement. Add-in regular "news" of "yet another breakdown of [whatever it end up being called] SPP tower" for believability of the cover.

Hm, I'm not sure how useful cargo submarines would have been there, but then again, if they already had some sort of amphibious assault ship submarine design, yes, that could have been used in both.
Well, if the PR was launching everything that it had in one last desperate assault as it launched the bombs, knowing full well it was literally an All-or-Nothing affair, I suppose they could have decided to affect all their remaining ships to the attack. Including ships that weren't intended for such a role in the first place.

If I were in charge of this operation, I'd be very concerned about the operative's loyalty. After all, they're effectively banished from all but a few secure areas in the GPE, for as long as they (and the GPE) live, and they're constantly, by the nature of their job, exposed to the temptation to defect to the Alliance.
Pretty much. If one were inclined as much, one could even think of telling a whole story centered about the intrigues surrounding that kind of character and their environment. Crazy
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